Help needed. Fears of commitment and rejection

Hi guys,

I am in desperate need for some help. I have a pattern that is destroying me, and am not sure how to fix it.

Background:

Not a very happy childhood, parents left me for 1 year when I was 1, mom kind of alcoholic and always absent, dad aggressive.

Myself:

28 yo woman, caring, stubborn, adventurous, got pretty much everything I wanted out of life except this. Also sensitive and kind of in a mess now emotionally speaking. I love exploring everything, from places to movies, food, life and people. Travelled the world. Considered very attractive (which I often didn't feel in the past). Came a long way in terms of self-esteem, still have a way to go.

Relationships:

Very painful :( Friendships are fine, I have many of them, with a few that are very close and long term, but I always fall in love with guys who are afraid of love somehow. It's killing me. It always starts with a click, then we are getting closer, then I panic and worry that anything I might do will push him away. In the past, I used to avoid displaying any sign of interest out of fear it would make the guy distance himself. I would also feel attracted at a distance, but whenever the guy I liked would come closer, I would feel instantly turned off, to the point where I would feel disgusted (at 14) when the guy I liked for 3 years or more would reciprocate and hug me (we were meeting only on summer holidays, in my grandma's town).

I know it's not possible to like someone for so long and spend so much time with them and get to know them and then just as they respond to not feel any kind of attraction, but a lot of disgust. In literally a split second. And then, when he distanced himself again, I liked him again for like 3 years. Then he came back again, and again I didn't like him.

I came a long way since then, worked in therapy, worked on my own, with almost an obsessive determination to fix this, and now the vacillation is still there, but much more subtle. I am still afraid to show too much interest, and still feel some slight turn off sometimes when closeness comes, but I can now understand it for what it is and manage it, I think.

However, whatever fear I have or whatever is causing this, I think it's making me fall in love with guys who are afraid themselves. In the last case, a guy I really liked. We met while traveling, I liked him instantly, I think him too. He ended up asking me to dance and we kissed. We then talked for about two months, talked about travelling together, I could see he had some fear, but every time we talked we got a bit closer, so I thought it was workable. We made plans to travel together, he shared stuff about his family, so did I. Then we met again in person in his city, and it felt like click after click. He's also warm and somehow shy, or has a shy history, but then became very social through his job, although he considers himself an introvert, Also somehow spiritual in a way (soulful) and sensitive (but has a history of walling his feelings off and is proud) and we have a lot of stuff in common. Even some weird stuff, like our moms have the same professions, our dads are similar, our relationships with our siblings too. Some hobbies. He's kind and sweet, cares a lot about family, but tried to become harder to not suffer anymore.

Our date ended up being like 14 hours, with us talking about everything and many moments of "me too" on both sides. We went first to his home, met his flatmates, etc, then out, then to his home again (I was pet-sitting 20 minutes away from him). He told me about his dad, that he always wanted him to be something else, and that is why he got along better with his mom. That his dad made him feel like he was never good enough and always forced him to do things he didn't want to do. And I think he also changed a lot in the past 2 years, finding his voice more and going for the things he loves.

We ended up having sex and I stayed over, it was amazing, then he went silent. I gave him space. Wanted to let him come to me, but, because of my own history, I felt completely panicked that now he will distance himself. I was literally crawling out of my skin. But tried to suppress it all and not show him anything, just be fine and give him time. We chatted a bit, mostly initiated by me about 5 days later, wanted to meet but something broke at his work (he showed me photos, so I know it was true).

Well, my 3 weeks there went by without us meeting again, and two days before the last I asked again if he wanted to do something. And he told me he was a bit busy that day. I said I was leaving in two days and then I asked him what was up, that to me it seemed we got along well both in person and when talking online (we were talking almost daily before). And I asked if he felt uncomfortable or something. He said he didn't, but that he doesn't know, he is strange and we could meet the next day and talk about it if I wanted.

We met, he told me many things, that last time he really loved someone was 7 years ago, it was a long-distance relationship and she cheated on him, he was devastated, he got stuck on it and they had random connections for 3 more years after that, and he said that after what he went through then he decided to never let himself get close anymore, that it's like his insurance he would never get hurt, and that whenever he feels he gets close to someone, he feels the need to distance himself. And that he is afraid of that pain. I recognized the fear of closeness, told him all I knew about it through my own work, tried to at least give him something that would help. I told him I went through similar things, he asked me how to fix it. He told me more about his relationships. He was kind of in constant relationships, but (oddly and not oddly) they were all long distance, and he is hurting a lot now because he is trying to fix his pattern for a while too, but it's very difficult for him. He said that he at the same time likes people and getting to know them, but never really gets close. And that he wanted the girls he was with more after they were more distant in some way.

I asked, what now, and he said that he can't have a relationship, he feels he is too immature for relationships and he doesn't know what he wants and other stuff, that he also really wanted to see me and that he likes how full of life I am and adventurous and open with people, that it's really beautiful how I give myself completely, that he is sorry that his head destroyed everything, that he overthinks things always. He said he really hopes we continue talking. And he said a few times he really hopes we will meet again after his head is fixed and see what could be between us. We went outside, we were staying on the street hugging, he told me that he feels completely naked, like I saw in his soul completely, that he doesn't feel hate from me and that it's incredible, that we had to go all the way across the world for someone to see him like this (we are from Europe, met in Central America). He thanked me a lot, said I was an incredible person. We stayed in the street hugging and kissing and tearing up for like 10 minutes. He was holding me and kissing my forehead and said again that he truly hopes we will meet again. I was going again to Central America the following day, to volunteer for two months.

A week later I sent him some books and resources that I used and that helped me on this subject, that I had promised to send him. Now he was happy I talked with him again (I guess he was worried I wouldn't anymore, because on our talk I said it would be difficult for me to keep contact like this). On our talk I also said that he needs to come towards me as well if we will continue talking, he said it is really difficult for him now to do this. Then I felt like it was difficult to talk, like that feeling of resistance when someone is pulling away. Then I let him be for 3 weeks, and he didn't say anything. Then I messaged him, asked if he could call me after his shift. We just chatted a bit, he told me to send him some stuff I wrote about Central America. Always mixed signals :( After, I sent him a message that it was so nice to hear him, that I loved his voice (I told this to him a few times since we met). He joked that I got used to the voice of people who are half-black, like a Puerto Rican singer. I said that I liked this "morenito" more than that singer, he asked me if even without the beard and he sent me a photo of him. I said that with, without, in all the ways and sent him back heart eyes. I guess what I am trying to say is that I showed him affection even from the beginning and throughout, and he also responded. When we wanted to go on a trip together but tickets were too expensive, the fool romantic that I am, I told him I would love even a trip to Walmart with him, and he laughed and said we would plan something, so, it's not like I was cold towards him, and it's not like he didn't respond.

But then I couldn't take the pressure anymore, I was afraid of trying so hard to get close to him and that him would just get with someone else. I told him this was too difficult for me like this, that it hurt me when he pulled away, that I can't be on a superficial level with him, etc. That I loved him with all my heart, but I couldn't do this. He responded that we already talked about how he is, and that he knows he is in a self-distructive cycle, but that it is very difficult for him to get out of it. That he liked me, but that "the flame of love didn't start for him". And that he didn't want me to feel like this because of him, that I was a spectacular person and that I was different than other people, that it's like I have a very strong soul and see things in a different way than other people.

I told him I won't look for him and try anymore, deleted him from facebook and his phone number, didn't talk for a month and a half. Went back to his city (where I lived before too), took a walk in my old neighbourhood and wanted to check a place, I get in and I see him. He had changed his job and was working there now. I stood in the middle of the room smiling at him, he suddenly noticed me and dropped what he had in his hands and rushed to hug me, we were both kinda shocked, mumbling words, took me on a tour, made me a drink, we talked a bit, I kinda lost coherent speech at some points. He told me he really wanted to visit my country. Talked just once again since then, but he's definitely not coming any closer.

The problem/Tldr

I feel devastated, because I really like him. Like, from the bottom of my heart :( And I keep getting into these situations, although this one is also different from some points of view. I think a few of my issues here are that I get attached to people who are afraid of love (maybe because of my own fears?), who end up being distant, and that probably I am afraid on some level of the healthy ones (although my ex before him was verrrrryyy into me and me into him, but he had other serious issues), and I also have those deep fears that if I show love a person will pull back...and I guess also a level of lack of self-confidence, like, I saw very warm and declarative people, who are simply matched with people who love that. But I second guess myself and worry and like these fearful ones and it's all a mess :( I would love to just feel free to me, I swear, I know couples who've been together forever, where the start was very much "listen, I like you", very direct and pursue-y, so I don't believe logically that everyone needs to play cool in order to be happy in love...my ex was also very "clingy" towards me and told me he loved me after one week, and I wasn't scared, I thought it was a bit fast in an amused way, but also kinda cute. But...my mix of issues made it impossible for me to be happy in relationships until now, and I am desperate to fix it. I am in therapy too, and feel like I am stagnating now.

I'm sorry if it's kind of jumbled, I tried to organize it a bit.

What could I do to fix this? Any insight would help. Has anyone been through a pattern like this?

How long have you been in therapy?

You choose people who are incapable of relationships, as you are incapable go letting others in due to trust issues. Choosing unavailable people, is safe for you.

Check out baggagereclaim.com It is for emotionally unavailable people.

How long have you been in therapy?

 

You choose people who are incapable of relationships, as you are incapable go letting others in due to trust issues. Choosing unavailable people, is safe for you.

 

 

Check out baggagereclaim.com It is for emotionally unavailable people.

I know that website, it makes some good points. Been browsing back through it today. I've been in therapy for 1 year now, and she helped a lot in making me feel "normal" and worry less, practice some skills, but it's a bit too unstructured for my taste and she kind of thinks time will heal it :/ I know that is not true. I guess it's time to switch therapists.

I'm just so confused. I mean, it sounds silly that I am asking you this, but I just can't get it, how come I am afraid to let others in due to trust issues but fully let in in these people who are guaranteed to hurt me? Or why, in the span of 6 months, I was also attracted to my ex, who was so full in and "clingy" and then, 3 months after we broke up, to him, who is afraid to get close? It's like, I can't understand how my fear operates.

I think that you should seek a new therapist. Have you gotten to the root of your trust issues?

It makes total sense. There is no future with these people, and you know it.; therefore, they will never get close. You are not attracted to emotionally healthy guys, because then, they would be able to get close. You choose people that are incapable of having a relationship.

I think that you should seek a new therapist. Have you gotten to the root of your trust issues?

 

It makes total sense. There is no future with these people, and you know it.; therefore, they will never get close. You are not attracted to emotionally healthy guys, because then, they would be able to get close. You choose people that are incapable of having a relationship.

Well, the thing is that I can't get in touch very well with the feeling of not trusting closeness. I feel like I make myself vulnerable. Often I felt like maybe I am too lame/weak/close/caring, etc. But then, more stable male friends have told me that I keep off a bit in some ways, like there is a barrier. So, I just don't get it.

What I can really connect with is the fear that if I show love, or any sign of affection or attachment I would be rejected. I can also connect with the feeling that I don't trust fully showing myself out of fear to be rejected. I feel like I can't determine what's normal and not, as in, am I just emotionally intimate or am I too much? Which is complicated by the fact that I match up with distant guys, who did make me feel like I wanted to much because of how I interpreted their distance.

When someone talks about being in a real relationship, it's like all I can hear is "smothering closeness that would suffocate, lack of sexual attraction, lack of a falling in love period. Just like a contract, to be together because it makes sense on paper. And when someone talks about committing to someone forever, I feel...like I love that in fantasy, but at the same time it makes me panic. In theory, I always wanted the "one love forever" thing, in practice, whenever I imagine committing to anyone other than the guys I fall in love with who can't do long term, it feels...trapped, like a loss of all other options. Like "what now?".

I know these things seem kind of contradictory. I thought lately that maybe I just need to decide that I am ok in terms of how attached I get and at least not suppress my attachment needs. This way, at least the commitment phobes would maybe be scared from the get go and would not be drawn to me, and, as there would be no initial intimacy anymore, I would not fall in love with them. Because I do actually need to develop some intimacy to fall in love.

I would accept that most likely he decided he’s just not that into you you and many people fear getting close and when they meet the right person they choose getting close over being afraid. If he didn’t try as hard as possible to see you within a week of having sex with you assume he is just not that into you or not available and move on. You’re not the right person to help someone you want to be with get over a “fear”. If he person wants to become aviaall e or rethink his decision in not seeing you again that’s for him to do himself on his own volition. You taking on her role will backfire and be a turn off.

I’m sorry you’re disappointed that it didn’t work out. Would you consider waiting longer before you have sex - seems like you get emotionally attached through sex.

I hope you feel better soon.

You need to get to the root of your problems.

Cupcakes, check out "He's Scared, She's Scared - The Hidden Fears That Sabotage Our Relationships."

Awesome book, great read, I learned a ton from it! It became my personsal bible for awhile. You're not alone, there are many many people who struggle with these same fears - fear of intimacy (emotional), fear of commitment.

Anyway, it explains what you're feeling/experiencing, why you're feeling/experiencing it. Why you're so drawn to certain people and why those same people suddenly repulse you.

In a word its FEAR.

Agree with finding a new therapist as well, one who specializes in dealing with such fears in people.

Good luck! You've taken the first step in acknowledging that *you* are the problem, not those you date. Although they most likely have their own problems to deal with, but you work on YOU.

It may be a long tough road so be patient with yourself, it's all a journey.

Cupcakes, check out "He's Scared, She's Scared - The Hidden Fears That Sabotage Our Relationships."

 

Awesome book, great read, I learned a ton from it! It became my personsal bible for awhile. You're not alone, there are many many people who struggle with these same fears - fear of intimacy (emotional), fear of commitment.

 

Anyway, it explains what you're feeling/experiencing, why you're feeling/experiencing it. Why you're so drawn to certain people and why those same people suddenly repulse you.

 

In a word its FEAR.

 

Agree with finding a new therapist as well, one who specializes in dealing with such fears in people.

 

Good luck! You've taken the first step in acknowledging that *you* are the problem, not those you date. Although they most likely have their own problems to deal with, but you work on YOU.

 

It may be a long tough road so be patient with yourself, it's all a journey.

Thanks for replying! I read that book, I felt the same, that it explained a lot. But not so much in the way of what to do about it. The problem is in me, I know that, and definitely in the guys I choose as well, who are themselves afraid or dysfunctional too :( I called today about setting an appointment with a therapist who specializes in relationships, and who focuses on such patterns. I hope it will help. I am thinking about trying an attachment based one too.

Unfortunately I still don't fully get what is my actual fear and why this fear makes me choose fearful and unavailable guys. What do you think about the one I posted about here? I mean, knowing he always had relationship issues and him admitting to distancing himself because of fear in all his relationships should make me logically understand I couldn't have done anything different and that it's not really about me. But the emotional side...I still worry that maybe he was just not into me (which was not the vibe I got, on the contrary, but maybe I just don't want to think that) or that I did something wrong.

Also, how do you think it works that when feeling fear one gets turned off suddenly? I saw this in myself, so I disagree with the comment that people just get ready when they really like someone - I never got ready, and I never will until I fix this fear. I used to suddenly be turned off as soon as they got close, and then on again when distant. But I guess I still think sometimes that maybe he never actually cared, or I am just doing everything wrong somehow.

People move towards pleasure and away from pain. You are choosing fear because it’s easier. You get more pleasure out of the thrill of the chase with an unavailable man than you do with a man who acts like he wants to be with you and shows he cares. It’s easier that way. It’s exciting and you don’t have to be vulnerable or have to work on reviving a spark should things feel routine or when the initial infatuation fades.

When my husband and I reconnected I was afraid of trying again because I couldn’t commit the first time and it was awful. And I chose being with him over fear. Over the huge risks because we were late 30s and was running out of time to have a family some day. Huge stakes. And I felt very strongly about him and about our potential. He also chose me over similar fears. People move towards pleasure and way from pain. Get to the root of why you feel more pleasure- more of a benefit-from being with an unavailable person.

All you need to do is pace your self and get to know someone and if they are a good fit. Consider dating a get to know you period. Try not to jump in emotionally with both feet because there is attraction or simpatico. Get a routine for dating that doesn't bore or smother either person. Slow down.

All you need to do is pace your self and get to know someone and if they are a good fit. Consider dating a get to know you period. Try not to jump in emotionally with both feet because there is attraction or simpatico. Get a routine for dating that doesn't bore or smother either person. Slow down.

It will help me to learn to take it slower, get to know someone better, I guess. The issue is I do get attached to them, it just happens, despite my best wishes sometimes. It's like I have a huge pressure inside me.

It will help me to learn to take it slower, get to know someone better, I guess. The issue is I do get attached to them, it just happens, despite my best wishes sometimes. It's like I have a huge pressure inside me.

Well no keep telling yourself it is because of your choices that you get attached too soon/too much. It doesn't just happen. You make choices to spend time with them in a certain way, in a certain setting, at a certain pace. You choose to live your life in a way that makes you more vulnerable to getting over invested too soon. Do you have a busy, fun, fulfilling life? Are you reasonably confident? All of these help you make choices not to get overly attached to someone you don't know well. It's not about "best wishes" -it's about your choices -small ones, larger ones, and choosing to know yourself and your weaknesses. What if a friend who was trying to lose weight told you about eating half a cake "it just happens despite my best wishes sometimes. It's like I have a huge pressure inside me" - it's not my fault I ate half a cake and the next day had fried chicken instead of grilled - I can't help it - I see it and I have such good intentions and then somehow I ingest it."

Well no keep telling yourself it is because of your choices that you get attached too soon/too much. It doesn't just happen. You make choices to spend time with them in a certain way, in a certain setting, at a certain pace. You choose to live your life in a way that makes you more vulnerable to getting over invested too soon. Do you have a busy, fun, fulfilling life? Are you reasonably confident? All of these help you make choices not to get overly attached to someone you don't know well. It's not about "best wishes" -it's about your choices -small ones, larger ones, and choosing to know yourself and your weaknesses. What if a friend who was trying to lose weight told you about eating half a cake "it just happens despite my best wishes sometimes. It's like I have a huge pressure inside me" - it's not my fault I ate half a cake and the next day had fried chicken instead of grilled - I can't help it - I see it and I have such good intentions and then somehow I ingest it."

Sorry, but I feel like you haven't actually read what I wrote. I have a life, friends, my own business, 2 jobs and travel all around the world - 28 countries so far. And work on these issues with a therapist. What I am looking for is people who understand this emotional mechanism and can share their insights about it, so that I can understand it too. Not something as shallow as a shower, on the level of "well, just get over it!!1!"

Well no keep telling yourself it is because of your choices that you get attached too soon/too much. It doesn't just happen. You make choices to spend time with them in a certain way, in a certain setting, at a certain pace. You choose to live your life in a way that makes you more vulnerable to getting over invested too soon. Do you have a busy, fun, fulfilling life? Are you reasonably confident? All of these help you make choices not to get overly attached to someone you don't know well. It's not about "best wishes" -it's about your choices -small ones, larger ones, and choosing to know yourself and your weaknesses. What if a friend who was trying to lose weight told you about eating half a cake "it just happens despite my best wishes sometimes. It's like I have a huge pressure inside me" - it's not my fault I ate half a cake and the next day had fried chicken instead of grilled - I can't help it - I see it and I have such good intentions and then somehow I ingest it."

I'm not going to suddenly fall in love with a different kind of guy just because I realize I have an unhealthy pattern and want to change it. And I am working a lot on it, which changed it somewhat, but not enough - hence me asking anyone who felt the fear or know about it how they felt it, what did they do to change it, how it was created.

Also, as it's common with people who are afraid of commitment/love, all these relationship start more normally, warm, and then change, it's not like they are always distant from the get go. I want to learn, and I can appreciate you are trying to help, @Batya33, but after working on this for so long with so little traction I know it's a bit more complex than "well, use your willpower!!"

I'm not going to suddenly fall in love with a different kind of guy just because I realize I have an unhealthy pattern and want to change it. And I am working a lot on it, which changed it somewhat, but not enough - hence me asking anyone who felt the fear or know about it how they felt it, what did they do to change it, how it was created.

Of course not. I never wrote that or meant that -that would be really silly. I also went for unavailable men. What I did was change myself. I became the right person to find the right person. What kind of work are you doing? I got involved in work, including volunteer work, that made me feel like I was contributing something, that shifted my focus to a variety of causes and issues and other people instead of focusing too much on husband-hunting, I started to see in a way that resonated why pursuing unavailable men/men who weren't that into me was unproductive and why they ultimately weren't right for me. And when I started dating my husband again years after we broke up and felt that fear coming up again I was able to rely on our strong solid core of passion and love and friendship and choose him over the fear/doubts so that they didn't overtake/overwhelm the good stuff.

It's also not about "suddenly falling in love" with a person who is healthy for you. That's a passive way to think about it. Love is a feeling but is mostly about giving. It's about you choosing to give to someone in a loving way where it is reciprocated from a place of confidence and where you choose to keep giving even though you might feel scared and it's choosing not to pursue someone who is not reciprocating -whose actions are not consistent with his words. It's choosing not to go for an insta-relationship or have sex right away which is great for the short term but not so great for the long term.

I think it's created in different ways and almost doesn't matter but remind yourself that choosing the fear is choosing to stay in your comfort zone because then you never have to truly be close to someone.

One thing I feared was having doubts at the level of panic once I accepted a proposal like "is he really the one?" "do I really love him and love him enough?" - and unfortunately at times I'd turn to the guy for reassurance that we were "right" together which was really unfair to the guy since it wasn't something he could change even if he wanted to (meaning not that a person should change but if it was something he did that concerned me we at least could talk about it and he might decide to change -but these overwhelming doubts had nothing to do with what he was doing or not doing). I feared saying "I do" and then being trapped with these doubts and not being sure I was with the right person -and then what -divorce? Just didn't seem right. I always pictured myself feeling panicky and anxious on my wedding day. But instead it turned out to be the most magical and natural day of my life. Minutes before the ceremony I was hanging out with my sister joking around (the tradition was that the groom not see me until the ceremony) - I could not believe I felt so centered and right about taking my vows.

And -being sure is no guarantee of course but when things are difficult or challenging it's good to remind yourself of why you said yes, of why you are with the person, etc. And if that core is strong the negative feelings pass and fade.

It happens because you want it to and let it happen. Try not to strive for insta-relationships and marathon first dates with sleepovers. Exercise boundaries to be more discriminating and selective, make wiser choices, increase your satisfaction as well as protect your emotions.

There is no need to feel like a victim of bad habits or be a slave to self-defeating behaviors. Date smarter, that's all it takes.

It will help me to learn to take it slower, get to know someone better, I guess. The issue is I do get attached to them, it just happens, despite my best wishes sometimes. It's like I have a huge pressure inside me.

Also, as it's common with people who are afraid of commitment/love, all these relationship start more normally, warm, and then change, it's not like they are always distant from the get go. I want to learn, and I can appreciate you are trying to help, @Batya33, but after working on this for so long with so little traction I know it's a bit more complex than "well, use your willpower!!"

I never ever said "well use your willpower". Did anyone here? I think you are taking that away from this so it gives you an excuse not to do more of the hard work, not to take a hard look at your choices. If you're "working" on this for "so long" then perhaps the type of "work" isn't working. I would avoid telling yourself "it's complex" because even if it is you seem to be looking for excuses to throw in the towel and "give up."

You do not have to date. At all. You are not obligated to have a romantic relationship long or short term, or to get married, etc. I know for me if I hadn't wanted marriage and family with my whole heart and soul and fingernails I never ever would have subjected myself to the work I had to do on myself, to the work I did to meet people, date, network.

I also would stop assuming that these men are unavailable or afraid of commitment. Some are and most will just not be that into you so even if they fear commitment (which many of us do to some extent) they will not choose to overcome their fear to be with you because they won't feel strongly enough about you. And that's ok. Not everyone is our match. The "commitmentphobe" label is tossed around so much and I think it's much much rarer than that.

I know that website, it makes some good points. Been browsing back through it today. I've been in therapy for 1 year now, and she helped a lot in making me feel "normal" and worry less, practice some skills, but it's a bit too unstructured for my taste and she kind of thinks time will heal it :/ I know that is not true. I guess it's time to switch therapists.

You're not going to like this, or maybe you might. I agree with your therapist. I wouldn't call it 'normal' in the sense that it's just like most people, but it's certainly common enough for women of 20 to do exactly what you're doing. Most are just not as well spoken or as self aware as you are, so you have an advantage.

You will 'fix' what you don't like over time with maturity. You've already made the strides away from revulsion to someone showing interest since age 14. You're growing out of this, but I do understand that it's painful. It's referred to as 'growing pains', typical of adolescence.

People assume that adolescence ends at age 18, it does not. The growth stage runs through early to mid 20's and can last through 30. Some people never 'grow up' so to speak. We see people on here who write out their problems and people assume that they're 12.

I'm just so confused. I mean, it sounds silly that I am asking you this, but I just can't get it, how come I am afraid to let others in due to trust issues but fully let in in these people who are guaranteed to hurt me? Or why, in the span of 6 months, I was also attracted to my ex, who was so full in and "clingy" and then, 3 months after we broke up, to him, who is afraid to get close? It's like, I can't understand how my fear operates.

It's less about fear and more about challenge. You have a strong ego. You're not attracted to plain vanilla relationships. You'll admire the couples around you and want what they have, but a guy who's willing to have that with you would drive you nuts in a short time. Clingy is a turnoff for most people, so nothing wrong with a revulsion to that. You want your equal. Well, not yet, anyway. If you take up with a guy, you will '_!tch' test him. If he rolls over and puts up with that, that's the start of the end for you.

You want to 'convert' disinterested men. That's your ego at work. If you can't have him, you want him--badly. But if he were to flip, you're out. The 'dance away lover'. You may find yourself interested in him again once you imagine he's over you. But if he flips again, you're done again.

Yes, you are more than likely to grow out of this over time--because you WANT to. There's nothing satisfying about setting yourself up to manipulate men who can't be manipulated, it hurts. By the same token, there's something claustrophobic about a guy who will limit you from taking on that challenge with other guys should you want to.

Finding the right balance in a guy is difficult. Not because there are too few men with the strength to love you without catering, but simply because of natural odds. Most people are NOT our match. That's not cynical, it's the level playing field for all of us. We each hold unique value, but only certain people have the capacity to view us through the right lens. Same is true of us for others. So stumbling across great simpatico with the right person is rare. Love is supposed to be rare, or what would be special about it?

Head high, and write more if it helps.

I never ever said "well use your willpower". Did anyone here? I think you are taking that away from this so it gives you an excuse not to do more of the hard work, not to take a hard look at your choices. If you're "working" on this for "so long" then perhaps the type of "work" isn't working. I would avoid telling yourself "it's complex" because even if it is you seem to be looking for excuses to throw in the towel and "give up."

 

You do not have to date. At all. You are not obligated to have a romantic relationship long or short term, or to get married, etc. I know for me if I hadn't wanted marriage and family with my whole heart and soul and fingernails I never ever would have subjected myself to the work I had to do on myself, to the work I did to meet people, date, network.

 

I also would stop assuming that these men are unavailable or afraid of commitment. Some are and most will just not be that into you so even if they fear commitment (which many of us do to some extent) they will not choose to overcome their fear to be with you because they won't feel strongly enough about you. And that's ok. Not everyone is our match. The "commitmentphobe" label is tossed around so much and I think it's much much rarer than that.

Batya, you need to back off and get out of my thread now. I don't require your help, and I just find you intrusive. You don't know what kind of help I have and how I worked on things, how fast I have sex (I mean, first kiss was at 21 out of fear, you do the math), or the histories of the guys I dated. These guys had long histories of broken relationships, in which they themselves have admitted they felt fear every single time real closeness came around. And I saw them cheat afterwards, or one was diagnosed narcissist with sociopathic tendencies. So back off, please, you don't get it, I avoided replying to you for a reason, and I am just bothered by your comments. If you are not interested to understand and help, just get out.

As for "sometimes it just happens despite my best interests", it's because it DOES. This guy, I liked him instantly, from the first sight, like a lightning bolt. I never asked for it, it just happened. And it's one of 2 times in my entire life, with the one before being when I was 6. So, YES, for whatever reason I am at the moment automatically attracted to them, sometimes instantly, but that will not change before I change my fear. Simple as that.

Batya, you need to back off and get out of my thread now. I don't require your help, and I just find you intrusive. You don't know what kind of help I have and how I worked on things, how fast I have sex (I mean, first kiss was at 21 out of fear, you do the math), or the histories of the guys I dated. These guys had long histories of broken relationships, in which they themselves have admitted they felt fear every single time real closeness came around. And I saw them cheat afterwards, or one was diagnosed narcissist with sociopathic tendencies. So back off, please, you don't get it, I avoided replying to you for a reason, and I am just bothered by your comments. If you are not interested to understand and help, just get out.

 

As for "sometimes it just happens despite my best interests", it's because it DOES. This guy, I liked him instantly, from the first sight, like a lightning bolt. I never asked for it, it just happened. And it's one of 2 times in my entire life, with the one before being when I was 6. So, YES, for whatever reason I am at the moment automatically attracted to them, sometimes instantly, but that will not change before I change my fear. Simple as that.

Your post and previous posts told me all I needed to know about your situation and why you've made and continue to make the choices you do. I don't think you need my help in the least because my help has to do with things you can do to find a healthy relationship and you want a very different sort of feedback which would be wrong on my part to give - from a personal and values perspective. But perhaps others will! Sorry you took what I wrote in that way and based on all of your posts I can see why you would choose to see it that way. Certainly was not my intention. I wanted to help with what I thought you were asking for and now I see you want a very different sort of feedback which would be wrong of me to give.

Good luck!

You're not going to like this, or maybe you might. I agree with your therapist. I wouldn't call it 'normal' in the sense that it's just like most people, but it's certainly common enough for women of 20 to do exactly what you're doing. Most are just not as well spoken or as self aware as you are, so you have an advantage.

 

You will 'fix' what you don't like over time with maturity. You've already made the strides away from revulsion to someone showing interest since age 14. You're growing out of this, but I do understand that it's painful. It's referred to as 'growing pains', typical of adolescence.

 

People assume that adolescence ends at age 18, it does not. The growth stage runs through early to mid 20's and can last through 30. Some people never 'grow up' so to speak. We see people on here who write out their problems and people assume that they're 12.

 

 

 

It's less about fear and more about challenge. You have a strong ego. You're not attracted to plain vanilla relationships. You'll admire the couples around you and want what they have, but a guy who's willing to have that with you would drive you nuts in a short time. Clingy is a turnoff for most people, so nothing wrong with a revulsion to that. You want your equal. Well, not yet, anyway. If you take up with a guy, you will '_!tch' test him. If he rolls over and puts up with that, that's the start of the end for you.

 

You want to 'convert' disinterested men. That's your ego at work. If you can't have him, you want him--badly. But if he were to flip, you're out. The 'dance away lover'. You may find yourself interested in him again once you imagine he's over you. But if he flips again, you're done again.

 

Yes, you are more than likely to grow out of this over time--because you WANT to. There's nothing satisfying about setting yourself up to manipulate men who can't be manipulated, it hurts. By the same token, there's something claustrophobic about a guy who will limit you from taking on that challenge with other guys should you want to.

 

Finding the right balance in a guy is difficult. Not because there are too few men with the strength to love you without catering, but simply because of natural odds. Most people are NOT our match. That's not cynical, it's the level playing field for all of us. We each hold unique value, but only certain people have the capacity to view us through the right lens. Same is true of us for others. So stumbling across great simpatico with the right person is rare. Love is supposed to be rare, or what would be special about it?

 

Head high, and write more if it helps.

Thanks for replying. I understand why you might think some of those things, but it's a bit on the flip-side - I was the one who felt lame and unlovable, and I had some codependent patterns. I wanted to save and heal them. I stuck around for years, and one of them was a diagnosed narcissist with sociopathic tendencies and bipolar disorder, who told me he loved me after one week, which I like because I needed love so badly then. Ok, that ended after 3 months thankfully and it kinda took the cake on how badly I misread a person, but still.

As for fear, I definitely feel it. Haven't kissed anyone until 21 out of fear, and I used to properly panic every time someone got remotely close, emotionally or physically. Most sex I had was about a year after I met someone, and very far in between. Less about ego, although I can connect with the idea that a wish to redeem the distant relationship with a parent made me want to save these guys.

Sorry, guys, either I am not expressing myself very well or this is above a forum pay grade (or both). I seem like this attractive thing from the outside, I feel desperate for real connection on the inside, and I can't accept it either way and now I remembered why I don't like posting on forums.

You're not going to like this, or maybe you might. I agree with your therapist. I wouldn't call it 'normal' in the sense that it's just like most people, but it's certainly common enough for women of 20 to do exactly what you're doing. Most are just not as well spoken or as self aware as you are, so you have an advantage.

 

You will 'fix' what you don't like over time with maturity. You've already made the strides away from revulsion to someone showing interest since age 14. You're growing out of this, but I do understand that it's painful. It's referred to as 'growing pains', typical of adolescence.

 

People assume that adolescence ends at age 18, it does not. The growth stage runs through early to mid 20's and can last through 30. Some people never 'grow up' so to speak. We see people on here who write out their problems and people assume that they're 12.

 

 

 

It's less about fear and more about challenge. You have a strong ego. You're not attracted to plain vanilla relationships. You'll admire the couples around you and want what they have, but a guy who's willing to have that with you would drive you nuts in a short time. Clingy is a turnoff for most people, so nothing wrong with a revulsion to that. You want your equal. Well, not yet, anyway. If you take up with a guy, you will '_!tch' test him. If he rolls over and puts up with that, that's the start of the end for you.

 

You want to 'convert' disinterested men. That's your ego at work. If you can't have him, you want him--badly. But if he were to flip, you're out. The 'dance away lover'. You may find yourself interested in him again once you imagine he's over you. But if he flips again, you're done again.

 

Yes, you are more than likely to grow out of this over time--because you WANT to. There's nothing satisfying about setting yourself up to manipulate men who can't be manipulated, it hurts. By the same token, there's something claustrophobic about a guy who will limit you from taking on that challenge with other guys should you want to.

 

Finding the right balance in a guy is difficult. Not because there are too few men with the strength to love you without catering, but simply because of natural odds. Most people are NOT our match. That's not cynical, it's the level playing field for all of us. We each hold unique value, but only certain people have the capacity to view us through the right lens. Same is true of us for others. So stumbling across great simpatico with the right person is rare. Love is supposed to be rare, or what would be special about it?

 

Head high, and write more if it helps.

I really appreciate your reply, though, because I feel like you looked at my situation and really want to help. It also helps me to see what reactions I have to different things. I don't believe stuff fixes itself without working on it, because I have met many examples in their 50s who were cheaters/people afraid to get close/emotionally unavailable, etc. I had some even in my family, some with pretty tragic endings, because they did want love, even if their fear prevented them from accepting it. Kinda disheartening that through a lot of this thread I feel like I just had to dispel preconceptions about who and how I am or what I did and how much responsibility I took over this and so on (not talking about your reply here). Like...I really did come a long way from a kid who sometimes didn't get fed for days to a person getting around the world and holding her own pretty much everywhere.