Not sure if this mean he cheated? Went through his phone...

Hi,

I'm in my early thirties and my bf is 4 years older than me. We've both spoken about a serious future together, which is what I want.

I'm just not 100% sure I trust him though. When we were first together things were mostly good, a little rocky at times though and I had a lot of relationship anxiety. He's told me a few white lies in the past, which makes me wonder whether he can tell bigger lies in the future, admittedly, I do find it hard to trust people in relationships, even though I've never (to my knowledge) been cheated on.

So this is why I decided to go through his phone last week. I found something that I'm just not sure what to make of it:

When we'd only been together for 5 months he went overseas for a holiday, I couldn't go because of work. He met up with one of his friends there (this isn't the issue, she's in a relationship and was the eighth her bf) but she sent him a text after meeting him overseas one night saying

"good to see you etc etc, that Danish girl is lovely!"

Wth does this mean?!!! Does this mean he hooked up with some Danish girl and his friend was saying she approves/ likes his fling/ this girl????

I feel like it's something you say when you meet a friends new partner, and he never mentioned a Danish girl while he was there.

I don't want to confront him about it, he's got exams and a really stressful schedule atm and this wouldn't be the right time.

Just want to know other peoples thoughts on this.

So you went through his texts from literally months ago and saw something as innocent as that?

He likely just made a friend that he introduced to his overseas friend.

Yes, I know it was wrong, and I've gone through his phone before. But last time I did it I confessed and we spoke about it and sorted it out. I just get so anxious sometimes. He's such a closed book and I can't always tell if I'm overreacting or if I'm seeing red flags. This is why I'm posting on here instead of talking to him. Tbh, my mind is a mess atm (in terms of anxiety and trust issues).

And he had lied to me before, and only came clean cos I forced it out of him, not because he was just being honest.

And I know how bad this sounds, trust me, but the text was from years ago.

The reason the anxiety started is kind of odd, well I think it is anyway. Other relationships I've had I never found that special spark, so I always felt like I could take it or leave it, which I did. I left every guy I've ever been with and never looked back. But when I met this guy and realised I don't want to leave him, I want things to work out, I freaked out. And often wonder if the only relationship I actually want will end in me being left or cheated on. So I keep looking for signs that there's something wrong, so that if there is I can leave and protect myself

How long have you guys been together?

Initial thoughts are that there are two problems here, or really one problem split two ways.

Namely, you do not trust him. It's not a percentage thing. It's kind of a zero percent thing, which is not the stuff that makes for a solid relationship, which is my concern for you here. When you're going through someone's phone you're at zero percent. There are lots of lovely Danish girls in the world; this one, whatever the story, is a proxy.

Which leads to: Where do these trust-in-relationship issues come from? I have them too, a lot of people do. But also: What's the itch in your spine that says this guy is shady? And how long has it been there? And is part of what makes him shady also what you're attracted to?

That itch can be 100 percent anxiety inflicted, 100 percent razor sharp intuition, often a merging of both.

I'd like to hear your response to some of that before saying more, but food for thought:

To my mind, just from what you wrote, this text sounds harmless. Not a fun thing to encounter, no. But, in isolation, harmless.

It could mean a zillion things before it's hooking up with a Danish girl. That is the single most catastrophic read, which requires a lot of imagination to get to. I'm not saying you're nuts for imagining it. You're a person with a heart and fears and wounds, like all of us. And you might also just be a person with great intuition, but you've suppressed some of that in this relationship. Hence, those earlier questions

It could be playful banter amongst friends, simply (but with a sly sexual charge ) talking about a lovely Danish girl they met. At a party, a meeting, who knows. She was cool and sexy and they're noting that. Ryan Gosling is lovely. So is Penelope Cruz. So is the waitress at the cafe down the street from me. Look through my phone and you may see me remarking on all of the above. Heck, I just did it.

Just for perspective.

Now, could this be a reference to a slight charge that passed between your bf and Danish girl? Yes, it could. It could have been one of those subtle, oh-in-another life moments. Is that a dealbreaker? I'd say no, but what you say is what matters. Your boundaries are yours.

But I'd also say you don't want to be spinning around and around about this. You don't want to be in a relationship where you're looking through a phone.

Your above post answered some questions. I take it you've been with this guy 1.5 years or so?

You looked through his phone once. What did you find? How'd that conversation go? Clearly not well enough to not do it again.

Look, regardless of whether this guy is a grade A player or a saint, you've got some anxiety issues to unpack. They're not serving you.

Sounds to me like you're used to having the upper hand in relationships, being the one who can cut bait as the other chomps on the bait. And that got old. And this guy presented something else, which was/is both exciting and terrifying. Still, how much of that terror comes from the idea that you might get hurt? Because, yeah, you might. That's the given in a relationship.

What are the nature of these lies?

We've been together for 3 years. I know we're serious. I'm the only girl who's ever met his mum and family, who's ever spent xmas with them, and who he's said I love you to. I've tried to break up with him twice in the past, over similar issues. Which he wouldn't hear, saying we can work it out and trying me not to runaway when there's problems. I just still get that niggling feeling sometimes though.

But even then, I don't think that means its a guarantee for honest/loyalty.

I'm actually not 100% sure where the trust issues come from. There's a few little things, which I've brought up in the past and we've spoken about it. Maybe because all of my other relationships were with guys who were a lot more open, or because I didn't care if it didn't work out or not because I didn't see a long term future anyway.

I definitely know a big part of the trust issue is me. But that's how I get so confused: I'm normally quite intuitive, but in this relationship I feel I can't decide whether it's a red flag I'm picking up on or me making something out of nothing.

The comment definitely wasn't a flirty kind if one from his friend, she didn't give any hints of it being a joke or anything sexual, and he didn't reply to her text.

I've definitely gone into a tail spin over this, I just don't know how to make it stop

The lies were something that what he lied about doesn't actually bother me, it's that he lied so easily to me and only came clean when I forced him to. He lied about where he'd slept with someone, when I asked out of curiosity. It would've been before we were even together, so whether he did or not didn't matter, but I didn't see why he had to lie about it. He said he did cos he knew I'd get jealous and upset

I should also add that he really doesn't like dealing with conflict. So if I have a problem and want to talk about it he has a tendency to get defensive and shut down the conversation, unless I really push the point, which I don't always have the energy for. So there tends to be a lot of unresolved issues on my end. I like to talk about things thoroughly, but he just like to move on from issues and not rehash them. It can make dealing with problems quite difficult, we both just work differently

You ran across this text that upset you when you were 5 months into the relationship and now you are fretting about it 3 years into the relationship. So, it must have been bothering you this entire time. Why now? Why are you now bringing it up? chi

No, it happened 5 months into the relationship and I've only just recently read it. Even if it was a while ago, to me it doesn't matter. If there's something that happened in our relationship than no matter when it was I'll still get upset and feel betrayed.

Last time I went through his phone (I didn't see these msgs, didn't look through everything) I told him and also told him that just the fact the I feel like I need to do this isn't a good sign and tried to break up with him. He wasn't angry that I snooped but upset that our relationship was a little broken and tried to talk about it. I told him there's nothing to talk about and kept pushing him away. I told him to take his things and go. But he said hes not running away and won't let me either and eventuallywe talked and sorted it out. This was 6 months ago.

I just don't get why he seems so invested in this relationship but still can't be open and honest with me

Oh, God. You've got to calm down. You're driving yourself crazy. It sounds like you want to sabotage the relationship. You got upset because your bf didn't want to talk about having sex with a previous girlfriend. You shouldn't have even been asking about such details. He knew you were grilling him for some reason, maybe because of jealousy. And now 3 years ago he talked to his friend about "The Danish Girl." Maybe they both saw the movie "The Danish Girl" that played in the movie theaters in 2015! (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0810819/) Maybe they both met a Danish Girl when he was visiting. You immediately jumped to the thought that he was sleeping with some Danish girl. Sheesh! And you shouldn't even be going through his phone.

If you're looking for an excuse to break up, then just break up, but stop acting like a crazy girlfriend because soon you'll be the crazy ex-girlfriend.

Thanks for your reply. Sometimes this is what I need, for someone to tell me that I'm being crazy, so that I don't have to take my crazy sh*t to my bf and have him tell me that I'm crazy. And like I said before, I can't always tell if I'm overreacting or not.

Nb. She msgd him that night, as in after he met his couple friends and brought the Danish girl, sounds like a double date to me

And the reason I was asking him about the other girl was because she was on the scene right before my bf and I got together. Someone who know all of us insinuated to me that he was seeing us both, which he denied

I'm not going to say you're "crazy" because I think that's patronizing and rude. I also think that wanting someone to tell you that you're crazy is...well, a little odd. It's like you know there's a screw loose, but rather than learning how to screw it tighter yourself you want someone to say it's okay: loose screw, but all good.

That's essentially where codependency comes from. And there's a lot of that coming through here, on both sides.

This relationship is not healthy, and the more you write the clearer it gets. It's not about what you may, or may not, one day find in his phone. It's the fact that there is really no trust anywhere in this. The stuff keeping you guys glued together is something else.

You need to be in therapy, untangling this. Not untangling it with a man. Right now your romance is tightening the very thing you're trying to untangle, see? Something that was a little jumbled going in has just gotten worse and worse, like a wound that is infected and goes untreated.

I agree, we both acknowledge that our communication skills together have a lot of room for improvement, we talk about issues we're facing, but it's usually after I've either tried for a while to bring something up thats bothering me or thought it would go away. We just end up going round in circles, saying we need to communicate more openly to actually resolve issues, but then just go back to whatever we were doing. He doesn't really bring up any issues, and I don't always want to bring up something that's bothering me because I feel like if I'm the only one doing it he'll just see me as a nag, so I end up repressing things. I know it's not healthy

He lied about where he'd slept with someone, when I asked out of curiosity. It would've been before we were even together, so whether he did or not didn't matter, but I didn't see why he had to lie about it. He said he did cos he knew I'd get jealous and upset

I can't see why that is your business to begin with. Why is the location of a previous sexual encounter relevant to your relationship?

I don't know if it's the case here, but my ex was a very jealous and insecure man. (And no, I never gave him a reason to be) I felt like I couldn't be open with him either because he'd get upset and I'd be hearing about it for ages. He'd want to know who I last slept with (before we started dating, I mean), if any guys approached me while I was out with friends, if I received messages from platonic male friends. It was too much and I shut down and stopped sharing with him. I didn't have the energy to fight it, so I just didn't. He also tried to go through my phone and social media, looking for any "evidence" of nefarious behaviour. Even when he didn't find it (because I wasn't doing anything nefarious to begin with, and also because I threatened to end the relationship if he invaded my privacy again) he'd spin other innocent communication to make it look like I was guilty of something. He saw everything through a suspicious and paranoid filter. Notice I said he is my ex-boyfriend. It was draining and unfair and I was relieved when the relationship ended.

My current partner is secure and lovely, and I have not once felt a need to keep things from him or walk on eggshells. He truly trusts me, and I him. We have never gone through each other's phones or other personal spaces. We have also never given each other a reason to believe there is anything untoward going on when the other's head is turned. The difference is night and day and it's refreshing to be with someone who respects me enough to believe I am not capable of betraying him.

The comment about the Danish girl could have been anything. It could have been a fling, yes, or it could have been a nice Danish waitress who served them at the pub and got chatting with them. Maybe it was a lost Danish tourist they helped. You don't have anywhere near enough evidence to assume this was someone he hooked up with. You need to really think carefully about why you're digging this much to find evidence of bad behaviour. If this happened 2.5 years ago, how far back into his messages did you need to excavate to find it?

I agree, we both acknowledge that our communication skills together have a lot of room for improvement, we talk about issues we're facing, but it's usually after I've either tried for a while to bring something up thats bothering me or thought it would go away. We just end up going round in circles, saying we need to communicate more openly to actually resolve issues, but then just go back to whatever we were doing. He doesn't really bring up any issues, and I don't always want to bring up something that's bothering me because I feel like if I'm the only one doing it he'll just see me as a nag, so I end up repressing things. I know it's not healthy

You are both scared of each other, is the thing. And I think you may need to own that you were scared of each other from day one.

Your attraction to him scared you. It was different than what you were used to, and it triggered a wave of fear.

Your jitters scared him. He saw you as fragile, sees you as fragile, so fragile that he can't tell you who he has had sex with. That's his sh*t, and who knows where it comes from. But it's also his intuition, and it's accurate.

Still, what you're talking about as communication skills is flat-out fear.

We all have fears. Some are very deep. We try to get as intimate with them as possible, so they become less invasive and mysterious, and so that we don't turn to others as bandaids for fear.

Unfortunately it seems you are walking on eggs because you're afraid to rock the boat. 👠🥚👠🥚👠🥚 You snoop, check up, distrust, etc because he won't be open nor honest with you and you won't be open nor honest with him. You won't talk to him and instead resort to policing his phone, playing detective and asking others what "it could mean".

You are both dancing around the complete lack of intimacy, trust and openness, hoping to force this to keep going. Yet you are both living in your own secret worlds just coexisting.

It sounds like the relationship is hanging by a thread however you think "we're serious. I'm the only girl who's ever met his mum and family, who's ever spent xmas with them, and who he's said I love you to". Which in itself sounds bizarre for a guy in his late thirties.

We've been together for 3 years. I'm normally quite intuitive, but in this relationship I feel I can't decide whether it's a red flag I'm picking up on or me making something out of nothing. I've definitely gone into a tail spin over this, I just don't know how to make it stop

"

You are both scared of each other, is the thing. And I think you may need to own that you were scared of each other from day one.

 

Your attraction to him scared you. It was different than what you were used to, and it triggered a wave of fear.

 

Your jitters scared him. He saw you as fragile, sees you as fragile, so fragile that he can't tell you who he has had sex with. That's his sh*t, and who knows where it comes from. But it's also his intuition, and it's accurate.

 

Still, what you're talking about as communication skills is flat-out fear."

 

Yes we're definitely both scared, maybe more me than him. I was brought up by parents who always told me that people will always let me down, among other things.

I know I can have quite a skewed view of people and the world at times, and I do try to keep my negative thoughts in check and to disregard all of the negative messages I was taught in childhood.

 

He's been cheated on I'm the past and I know he worries about it happening from time to time, but maybe deals with it in a more constructive manner, he's a very matter of fact type of person. I just get lost in my head and thoughts and imagination sometimes. But I'm definitely petrified, I think it has a lot to do with anxiety and poor coping mechanisms when I feel I'm in crisis.

 

I know I need to have an honest talk with him about my fears and anxiety

You are both scared of each other, is the thing. And I think you may need to own that you were scared of each other from day one.

 

Your attraction to him scared you. It was different than what you were used to, and it triggered a wave of fear.

 

Your jitters scared him. He saw you as fragile, sees you as fragile, so fragile that he can't tell you who he has had sex with. That's his sh*t, and who knows where it comes from. But it's also his intuition, and it's accurate.

 

Still, what you're talking about as communication skills is flat-out fear.

 

We all have fears. Some are very deep. We try to get as intimate with them as possible, so they become less invasive and mysterious, and so that we don't turn to others as bandaids for fear.

Unfortunately it seems you are walking on eggs because you're afraid to rock the boat. 👠🥚👠🥚👠🥚 You snoop, check up, distrust, etc because he won't be open nor honest with you and you won't be open nor honest with him. You won't talk to him and instead resort to policing his phone, playing detective and asking others what "it could mean".

 

You are both dancing around the complete lack of intimacy, trust and openness, hoping to force this to keep going. Yet you are both living in your own secret worlds just coexisting.

 

It sounds like the relationship is hanging by a thread however you think "we're serious. I'm the only girl who's ever met his mum and family, who's ever spent xmas with them, and who he's said I love you to". Which in itself sounds bizarre for a guy in his late thirties.

He's a late bloomer haha. He's had other long(ish) term relationships, but never actually let them into his life. That's just him, he's a very private person. And he does also acknowledge that he's never played for keeps, so to speak, in relationships, and didn't realise at first how important openness and communication is. We've both acknowledged that we need to work on communication together, it's just harder than it sounds.

I'm over the whole msg thing now, I've realised, now that I've called down, that that's not the real issue.

Invading your partner's privacy and neurotically going through years of text messages is a real issue. He's not "a private person." You just feel inappropriately entitled to his privacy with this snooping and strange inquiries into his sexual past.

After 3 years, this sounds like swimming through pancake syrup.🥞 It shouldn't be "harder than it sounds". Going in circles talking about "we need better communication" is not solving anything.

What's making it hard is the cat-and-mouse games and mutual dishonesty and distrust. 🙀🐭😺🐭😾🐭

Do you live together? After 3 years, where do you see this going? Where do you hope it goes?

We've both acknowledged that we need to work on communication together, it's just harder than it sounds.

You don't really need to have a more honest talk with him about your fears and anxiety. You need to have a more honest talk with yourself, so you have a better handle on it and develop better coping mechanisms. You and he have done lots of talking on this subject, directly and indirectly, for years. Where all that's gotten you is where you are right now.

One way to look at people is that they'll always let you down. And, hey, from one angle it's certain true. People miss deadlines, forget to take out the trash, and sometimes cheat on each other. I've let a lot of people down in my life, been let down plenty.

But turn the prism just a little bit and maybe you can see it differently. People are pretty amazing. They come through, surprise, rise up, and try, against all sorts of odds, to be their best selves. With plenty of stumbles, yeah. But with a lot of heart and a lot of grace.

But it's not my job to teach you about people, or how to prepare yourself for the potential of being let down. And it's not his. It's not even his job to NOT let you down, in ways big or small.

I would take this moment as a bit of a wake up call. You're young. Start building muscles that have gone neglected, the ones inside that let you know that you're supported no matter what life throws at you. Therapy. Hobbies. Something, anything, that keeps the neurotic impulses in check and, eventually, dissolves them. THAT is the step forward, not another conversation.

Can this relationship survive that inner journey? I wish I could say I'm optimistic. I'm not. There is a dynamic here that is deeply engrained, suspicious, paranoid, deflective, evasive, SCARED.

But maybe, just maybe. See, I'm a romantic, and deep down, past all my own significant bs that I'm sorting through and movie-of-the-week childhood trauma, I'm an optimist, a believer in people. I believe you. I believe in him.

So rip off the bandaids, let your wounds into the air. Call a therapist. New path, new muscles.

Oh, God. You've got to calm down. You're driving yourself crazy. It sounds like you want to sabotage the relationship. You got upset because your bf didn't want to talk about having sex with a previous girlfriend. You shouldn't have even been asking about such details. He knew you were grilling him for some reason, maybe because of jealousy. And now 3 years ago he talked to his friend about "The Danish Girl." Maybe they both saw the movie "The Danish Girl" that played in the movie theaters in 2015! (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0810819/) Maybe they both met a Danish Girl when he was visiting. You immediately jumped to the thought that he was sleeping with some Danish girl. Sheesh! And you shouldn't even be going through his phone.

 

If you're looking for an excuse to break up, then just break up, but stop acting like a crazy girlfriend because soon you'll be the crazy ex-girlfriend.

Agree totally! Maybe the Danish Girl comment had to do with the movie, not some actual Danish Girl he/they had met! If you cant handle things like this quit going thru his phone.

You should end this relationship as soon as you can. This was probably just an innocent inside joke. For god's sake, if you have trust issues, work them out before you get into another relationship and ruin other people's lives. Relationships are not for people who cannot trust. IMO

Consider two forms of distrust: 'self' generated (chronic), and 'other' generated (isolated). Other-generated distrust is based on a specific partner's behavior being somehow suspicious or untrust-worthy. Self-generated distrust is based on past experiences and sabotages every relationship that follows.

Most people who carry chronic distrust can identify that as the case. However, if you're unsure, asking questions that compare past relationships with a current one can help. For instance, you don't believe that prior partners cheated, and you described them as more open to discussions than current BF. Did you find yourself distrusting of those partners anyway, despite their openness?

You raised BF lying over inconsequential things. Do you recall any prior BF lying? If so, did you somehow feel more safe with prior BF overall, or were you as anxious back then as with the current one?

You gave an example of BF lying about a location of sex prior to your relationship. What prompted you to ask? Do you believe that such a question was appropriate to ask? Do you have examples of him lying about anything less intrusive?

Have you ever snooped in a BF's phone, email, or PMs before? If not, what caused enough suspicion with current BF to prompt the snoop?

The goal isn't to find 'blame,' but rather to help your identify whether your suspicions about current BF contrast your feelings of trust with prior BFs or are consistent with those you've held about prior BFs. Either way, you may want to pursue private counseling to help you navigate your next set of questions. If your distrust is chronic, a counselor can help you work through your earliest causes and retrain your frame of reference into one that supports you in relationships. If your distrust is isolated, a counselor can help you make choices about how you'll want to honor your instincts or manage them.

Head high, and write more if it helps.