marriage trouble

Hi all..

I have been married for about 10 years, together for almost 20 years. We do not have children. About a year and a half ago, my husband had surgery for a serious medical problem. He is still plagued with some side effects from this problem. He is terribly depressed. He finally went to counseling (after a huge argument).. been going for about 3 months (and he has now told me that he doesnt want to go anymore because it isnt helping him).

I find living with his misery to be a challenge. I have told him so.. and nothing changes. He doesnt really pay much attention to me, or talk to me, other than to tell me how terrible his life is.

I have started to seek attention elsewhere (just a bit of online flirting). I know it isnt right, but it makes my life happier.

Any ideas what to do? he is probably going to give up counseling.. so I probably will end up needed to go.. but any other suggestions?

Thank you

Firstly -- you need to immediately cut off all contact with anyone you are flirting with. it does not help your marriage.

your husband has had a traumatic event and that is why he is depressed.

"in sickness and in health." this is the "in sickness part.

It is not uncommon for people to be put on a mild antidepressant if they have been confine to a hospital bed for a long time, have had a traumatic accident or a life threatening condition - anything where they were hooked up to tubes for a bit. i am surrpised they didn't do the same thing for him.

I would encourage you both together to go to his specialist and talk about what has been going on - there may be support groups of other patients, and talk therapy only helps to a certain extent if the problem is physiological - the side effects are what is depressing him and they are not going away. Is there anything further - ie, side effects that will go away just over time or does he need physical therapy that he is not getting.

Instead of straying, i think you should be an advocate for your husband's health and well being while he can't fully see he needs that right now.

It could be that he turns the corner and you go back to a giving, loving marriage. He DOES love you -- he is just deep in the bottom of the well right now.

Undermining your integrity won’t fix anything. He needs to visit his doctor again to say he is severely depressed.

Sorry this is going on. Was he like this before the issue? Does he see regular doctors? Or take medication? He's probably right that this kind of depression is not amenable to counseling.

Do either of you work? Is he stewing at home on disability? Do you want a divorce? Are you staying out of guilt?

The problem you see this as his problem and he should fix it. However it's your problem as well so in addition to getting a reasonable evaluation by a doctor for the depression marriage therapy would be best if you don't want a divorce. Unless you plan to stay and are setting the table to justify cheating.

I have been married for about 10 years, together for almost 20 years. About a year and a half ago, my husband had surgery for a serious medical problem. He is still plagued with some side effects from this problem. He is terribly depressed. He doesnt really pay much attention to me, or talk to me, other than to tell me how terrible his life is.

irstly -- you need to immediately cut off all contact with anyone you are flirting with. it does not help your marriage.

your husband has had a traumatic event and that is why he is depressed.

"in sickness and in health." this is the "in sickness part.

It is not uncommon for people to be put on a mild antidepressant if they have been confine to a hospital bed for a long time, have had a traumatic accident or a life threatening condition - anything where they were hooked up to tubes for a bit. i am surrpised they didn't do the same thing for him.

I would encourage you both together to go to his specialist and talk about what has been going on - there may be support groups of other patients, and talk therapy only helps to a certain extent if the problem is physiological - the side effects are what is depressing him and they are not going away. Is there anything further - ie, side effects that will go away just over time or does he need physical therapy that he is not getting.

Instead of straying, i think you should be an advocate for your husband's health and well being while he can't fully see he needs that right now.

It could be that he turns the corner and you go back to a giving, loving marriage. He DOES love you -- he is just deep in the bottom of the well right now.

He doesnt think he is depressed. He thinks he is acting as any normal person would with a health concern. I have spoken to his doctors, and he is refusing to take any medication for this, and they arent giving him anything, since he is refusing anyway. I am the one who has started taking medications, since my doctors see that I am depressed due to this. He wont go to support groups. He just talks about how he is going to die. (which he isnt).

Im not straying. Im alone, and my husband isnt putting anything into our marriage right now. I dont disagree that he is deep in the well, but he doesnt want to help himself out of it. I cant lift him alone. I need something that makes me a tiny bit happy too. Life isnt all about him.

Sorry this is going on. Was he like this before the issue? Does he see regular doctors? Or take medication? He's probably right that this kind of depression is not amenable to counseling.

 

Do either of you work? Is he stewing at home on disability? Do you want a divorce? Are you staying out of guilt?

 

The problem you see this as his problem and he should fix it. However it's your problem as well so in addition to getting a reasonable evaluation by a doctor for the depression marriage therapy would be best if you don't want a divorce. Unless you plan to stay and are setting the table to justify cheating.

He was not like this before. he has always been a little self centered, as he was fairly spoiled as a child, and young adult. He sees many doctors. None of them are doing anything about the mental health part, because he is lying to them and telling them that things are fine. When I say they arent, I am brushed off.

We both work, full time, outside the home.

I dont want a divorce. I just want things to change. I am suffering. It makes sense that he is going through challenges after all this... but the issue is he doesnt want help, and doesnt think anything is wrong. I cant get him to see differently.

Then discuss the fact you may need a separation, but you undermining your integrity hurts YOU the most.

Why won't you go to marriage therapy? It's true he can refuse to take medication for depression. Does he work? Don't blame him for your depression or your flirting. Why should he own his stuff if you won't own yours or go to marriage therapy?

He doesnt think he is depressed. He thinks he is acting as any normal person would with a health concern. I have spoken to his doctors, and he is refusing to take any medication for this, and they arent giving him anything, since he is refusing anyway. I am the one who has started taking medications, since my doctors see that I am depressed due to this. He wont go to support groups. He just talks about how he is going to die.

Then discuss the fact you may need a separation, but you undermining your integrity hurts YOU the most.

I dont think that is a great solution. He will sink farther and farther.... Id love to hear if anyone else has ideas.

Lets say I omitted the sentence about getting attention from other places... doctors are ignoring me, he thinks he is fine.. now what?

Well, getting attention from other places just devalues you. If he won’t help him self and you won’t leave .... what is there? Cheating isn’t the answer though.

Why won't you go to marriage therapy? It's true he can refuse to take medication for depression. Does he work? Don't blame him for your depression or your flirting. Why should he own his stuff if you won't own yours or go to marriage therapy?

What am I not owning?

We have gone to therapy. I cant say it anymore times. He thinks he is fine, and that nothing is wrong. In order for therapy to do any good, you have to be open to change. He is not.

This was my first post here, and will probably be my last. I am trying to get ideas for support, and this just doesnt seem supportive.

Doctors don't have to listen to you in fact it is confidential what he and his doctors decide and discuss. You don't want solutions, just as he doesn't. You are actually very similar. Depressed, stubborn, refusing marriage therapy, refusing advice and pointing fingers at each other, both thinking you're perfect and the other one is the problem

Id love to hear if anyone else has ideas. doctors are ignoring me, he thinks he is fine.. now what?

Before you think I am half baked I have been with my husband 30 years and he has GAD and OCD and I have PTSD and panic disorder and many severe chronic health issues. We have had our fair share of s...ty years in life. But I demanded he get help of I was gone when my son was a year old. ( he is 21 now) My husband chose to get help because I laid it on the line.

Doctors don't have to listen to you in fact it is confidential what he and his doctors decide and discuss. You don't want solutions, just as he doesn't. You are actually very similar. Depressed, stubborn, refusing marriage therapy, refusing advice and pointing fingers at each other, both thinking you're perfect and the other one is the problem

actually, thats not true. I am listed as someone doctors are allowed to disclose to... I attend every appointment, and listen to everything the doctor says. This is needed, as his capacity to understand is not the same as it once was. Depressed and stubborn is a fair assessment. I am asking for advice. i have asked him to go to therapy, and he is the one that wants to quit. I just havent heard anything but stop talking to other people (which is fine.. I take that, I hear it.. and done) It doesnt fix anything, other than take a little happiness from me.

He doesnt think he is depressed. He thinks he is acting as any normal person would with a health concern. I have spoken to his doctors, and he is refusing to take any medication for this, and they arent giving him anything, since he is refusing anyway. I am the one who has started taking medications, since my doctors see that I am depressed due to this. He wont go to support groups. He just talks about how he is going to die. (which he isnt).

Im not straying. Im alone, and my husband isnt putting anything into our marriage right now. I dont disagree that he is deep in the well, but he doesnt want to help himself out of it. I cant lift him alone. I need something that makes me a tiny bit happy too. Life isnt all about him.

Your husband is floundering and cannot help himself right now.

At some point, he will decide that things are out of control.

You might have to wait it out.

Things may have chemically changed with him.

If he doesn't think anything is wrong with his mental health - you approach the physical health.

There is a lot of stigma about medications for mental illness for some people.

One day maybe it will be appropritae to lay the law down in front of a counselor that you love him deeply -- but listening to him telling you he is going to die constantly is making you depressed and helpless. does the doctor tell him "you are not going to die --- here is what you can do to get better?"

you can refuse to entertain his "i am going to die" -- "i am going out to the movies/something he likes after he tells you that -- but its only people for who want to/are going to live, so are you coming or not?

When my grandfather had intestinal cancer and ultimately lost 1/2 of his intestines, did my grandmother think about what he wasn't "putting into the marriage?"

YOU go to a caregiver support group if he won't go to anything for YOU. YOU go out with your sister or your cousin for coffee or to a movie. Maybe ask an old friend of his to ask to do something with him. self care does not involve cheating.

First, how long are these physical side effects from the surgery supposed to last? Is he still in recovery? Is the recovery period taking longer than expected? Were there unexpected complications? Or does he need to adjust to a new, limited physical capacity for the long-term? I mean to ask - is he going to get back all of his physical abilities (as far as you and the doctors can guess) or is he certainly changed physically for good now? I think know the answer to this may guide you in how to proceed.

Also, you say that he is depressed because of his adjustment to his new physical state after this surgery. That is an understandable cause for someone to become depressed. But you say that he doesn't recognize that he is depressed. OK. Can you somehow demonstrate to him that he is not seeing the way he has changed? What if you said to him the specific ways he has changed and explain that you think his depression is the cause. For example: "You used to enjoy going to see movies and you used to like talking to me about this and that and now you don't seem to enjoy that anymore." Keep going and say all the behaviors he does differently now.

And he may respond that, yes, it's because of his surgery. But you can then respond by saying that his surgery has changed the way he behaves, but has also seemed to change the way he thinks and emotionally reacts to things. You can suggest that it has resulted in him becoming depressed and that you are worried about him. Maybe if you lay it all out with specific examples then he cannot argue with you because you're stating facts not just your impressions or feelings.

Perhaps you could get other people involved in - sort of an intervention. Have others noticed his change in attitude? It's one thing to be bummed about being laid up and feeling poor. And it's one thing to not physically be able to do things you used to love doing. But if he is not showing interest in things he used to be interested in, and is not taking pleasure in things, then that shows something deeper.

If his new limited capacity and condition is permanent, I can understand how that may make someone feel hopeless and useless and not worth love. Before this, you said he was self-centered. Maybe this has been a blow to his idealized version of himself. Maybe his self-esteem has taken a huge hit. Was he a very independent, strong person? He may feel unattractive to you now and that loss of self-esteem probably makes him not want to give you attention.

My husband has dealt with chronic health issues and they have made him feel weak and unattractive. I am naturally a very expressive person, affectionately and with compliments, when I am close to someone. But even so, even I had to find ways to be more self-confident, for myself, to be more of the initiator sometimes, when it came to affection and intimacy. I had to push past his initial reluctance in those times when he felt down, and convince him that I still saw him as the sexy, wonderful man I fell in love with, that nothing about him physically had changed in my perspective. The more you withdraw, however, the worse he may feel about himself. It could become a self-fulfilling prophecy for him wherein he withdraws from you because he feels bad about himself. Then you feel lonely and pull back. Then that "proves" to him that you don't find him attractive anymore.

Hi all..

I have been married for about 10 years, together for almost 20 years. We do not have children. About a year and a half ago, my husband had surgery for a serious medical problem. He is still plagued with some side effects from this problem. He is terribly depressed. He finally went to counseling (after a huge argument).. been going for about 3 months (and he has now told me that he doesnt want to go anymore because it isnt helping him).

I find living with his misery to be a challenge. I have told him so.. and nothing changes. He doesnt really pay much attention to me, or talk to me, other than to tell me how terrible his life is.

 

Need to chime in here. I will probably get beat up for this, but I am NOT gonna judge you for seeking attention outside the marriage; you’re human for heaven’s sakes, you have needs too! I am NOT saying it’s right, it's NOT, but I understand it and am not gonna judge you for it. Just be careful how far you go with it, as in NO meeting these men in person, and NO cheating. Keep it friendly. No sexting or anything like that. Friends, period.

I absolutely disagree with the notion that your husband is unable to help himself right now. He’s a grown man, not a child, he is refusing to help himself by (1) refusing to acknowledge he has depression and (2) rejecting the proper medication that would help his depression.

I would be curious to know what he thinks it is, since he's constantly complaining to you about how terrible his life is, whining to you about how crappy he feels, not talking to you, shutting you out, when the proper meds would help him, which he refuses to take.

I mean the very thing he deems terrible about his life is his depression, which he refuses to even acknowledge!

Makes no sense and I would tell him that.

Folks have been criticizing you, suggesting you’re not doing your part, what about HIS part? I get he had a serious surgery (not life threatening) and still suffers some side effects.

So do A LOT of people, but a mature well balanced person DEALS. It is absolutely not an excuse to completely shut you (his wife!) out.

He is in the marriage too, and it’s not like he’s totally incapacitated where he needs constant care 24/7. If that were the case, my advice would be much different.

I would suggest having a serious sit down with him. Be assertive in telling him that you’re not happy. You understand he’s depressed but when he refuses to help himself by not acknowledging he has a problem and taking medication that would help him, it’s causing you to shut down.

Don’t threaten him with divorce, but I think it’s time he knows how YOU feel. I understand he is refusing marriage counseling, but perhaps if he knew how all this (his negative attitude and behavior) was affecting you, how it's causing YOU to shut down and feel depressed, he might consider it, assuming he loves you.

By the way, I assume these side effects cause him some physical pain? Is he on pain meds for that? If he is refusing those too, but spends his time complaining to you about it ad nauseum, then I would seriously suggest leaving because no one should have to tolerate that type of nonsense.

I mean on one hand I can sympathize but when someone (even my husband or someone I am otherwise committed to) flat out refuses to help him/herself but then complains ad nauseum about how crappy they feel, refuses to speak to me and shuts me out, that's where I lose my sympathy.

I agree with the suggestion to seek out some sort of support group. I attended a support group last year, and it helped me a lot! More than individual therapy.

Support groups are great! I vote for that suggestion as well.

Is your husband open at all to alternative therapies? Like acupuncture and herbal medicine, massage, chiropractic care, etc? I would suggest these in light of the residual effects of his surgery and his psycho-emotional slump if he won't go to therapy and lies to western medical doctors. I'm an acupuncturist and there is a lot we can do for someone suffering from a wide range of effects (from depression/anxiety to pain and hormone imbalances, etc.)--and because of how the pattern differentiation operates--even if someone doesn't fully disclose their situation sometimes the modality can help with the symptoms they don't talk about.

Even if he is unwilling to seek outside care, I think you should carve out some time for yourself to do so. Your needs aren't being met in the marriage and you need to find ways to decompress that don't revolve around what you can't control, which is him. I would look for activities that fill some wells that don't involve flirting with other men. If you feel like there is a lack of attention and romance, take yourself to the movies, have a long bubble bath, etc. I would also look for the support groups the other posters mentioned. And sit him down for a frank discussion so that he knows how this is affecting you and how serious of a threat this is to your marriage.

He was not like this before. he has always been a little self centered, as he was fairly spoiled as a child, and young adult. He sees many doctors. None of them are doing anything about the mental health part, because he is lying to them and telling them that things are fine. When I say they arent, I am brushed off.

We both work, full time, outside the home.

I dont want a divorce. I just want things to change. I am suffering. It makes sense that he is going through challenges after all this... but the issue is he doesnt want help, and doesnt think anything is wrong. I cant get him to see differently.

Then instead of getting yourself into trouble through emotional cheating, why don't you both go to couples counseling and see if you can get it through to him that his outlook on life and his unmotivation to be a good partner isn't sitting well with you or him for that matter.

Getting attention from other men on line (or elsewhere) is disrespectful to not only him, but to you as well. These men don't have your best interests in mind when they are catering to your need for attention.

If things don't change after you go to counseling or, if he won't go with you at all, then break up with him and get all the attention from men you can pull. Doing that now isn't any way to resolve the issue within your marriage.

Seek couples counseling. You do not cheat on you partner. Terrible.

Is he on meds? What happened to him?

Then discuss the fact you may need a separation, but you undermining your integrity hurts YOU the most.

 

I dont think that is a great solution. He will sink farther and farther.... Id love to hear if anyone else has ideas.

Lets say I omitted the sentence about getting attention from other places... doctors are ignoring me, he thinks he is fine.. now what?

You believe cheating to be better than a separation. I don't get that. if you really want to destroy him, wait until he finds about you with other men.

Need to chime in here. I will probably get beat up for this, but I am NOT gonna judge you for seeking attention outside the marriage; you’re human for heaven’s sakes, you have needs too! I am NOT saying it’s right, it's NOT, but I understand it and am not gonna judge you for it. Just be careful how far you go with it, as in NO meeting these men in person, and NO cheating. Keep it friendly. No sexting or anything like that. Friends, period.

 

She can seek friendship, emotional sharing, etc from platonic female friends -- now is the time to lean on one's girlfriends, chat with a sister, etc. and develop a support network. A word or time from someone who cares about you doesn't need to be romantic or sexual. That need needs to be met with them - not another man. Its one thing to be out in public and a man compliments you and for you to get warm fuzzies about it, but its another to exchange numbers and start flirting.

It may take time for a light bulb to go off and for the switch to flip for him to want to get better -- or to see a brighter side. I was a spouse's caregiver who went through a traumatic illness. Its a process. it takes time/personal revelation -- and also, we don't know what the medical issue is -- is he facing the reality that his life IS going to be cut short? Is that true? or can he not do anything he used to love now?

She can seek friendship, emotional sharing, etc from platonic female friends -- now is the time to lean on one's girlfriends, chat with a sister, etc. and develop a support network. A word or time from someone who cares about you doesn't need to be romantic or sexual. That need needs to be met with them - not another man. Its one thing to be out in public and a man compliments you and for you to get warm fuzzies about it, but its another to exchange numbers and start flirting.

Totally agree. Well said abitbroken. Nailed it.

Point taken abitbroken re the emotional "cheating."

When I read threads like this, it always brings to mind Christopher Reeve. My goodness, the man was paralyzed from the neck down, needed a tube to breathe and eat, was in tons of pain pretty much 24/7, but his positive spirit and attitude, the love and support of his wife, and HIS love and support of HER as well, pulled him through, pulled them BOTH through, until the day of his passing, may he RIP.

I'm sorry, there is just no excuse for anyone in a committed RL to not speak to or interact with their spouse, emotionally shut down and close off, no matter what they're going through. If they feel themselves going in that direction, get help!!

To me not seeking help is irresponsible and the emotional withdrawal is a form of emotional abuse although due to what he's experiencing mentally and physically, I won't attach that label to him.