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Gaslighting, can it go both ways?


Sim54

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Hi all, I'm having an issue with my SO.

 

She seems to be gas lighting me, albeit, perhaps not intentionally.

She has just admitted today, that she can't remember things she says, when she is feeling vulnerable when she says them.

 

This came up as 2 weeks ago, she admitted her part in damaging our relationship earlier this year, and mentioned that she saw how her behaviour was triggering me and she didn't blame me for what happened before (we broke up in June but are back talking trying to resolve it).

 

I couldn't believe my ears when she said these wonderful things, I never thought she would take any responsibility for that.

 

But today, she doesn't remember having said it.

Not ten minutes later, the talk moved to when we broke up, which is a touchy subject. The day before we broke up, I had called her to try to talk with her about us, as she was getting distant again (a repeating pattern), and I tried to share my feelings with her without blaming her, but only trying to connect.

I was very anxious when I started the conversation and I told her this.

She immediately started shouting at me, saying we should stop seeing each other. I asked her to not threaten to break up with me just because we were having an uncomfortable conversation, and that that was mean. I tried to calm things down, but at some point she was shouting quite loudly, and I shouted back, just to get her to be quiet for a second, to calm things down and end the call (it was a phone convo).

 

The next day, she asked me to not attack her like that, and then later that day she broke up with me.

 

Fast forward to today, when I mentioned that she had actually shouted at me, and basically attacked me when I was vulnerable and trying to share my feelings, she insisted it didn't happen. She seemed shocked that even thought that, and said, in a genuinely scared voice that she was afraid to see we had such different views on what happened. She said she couldn't have shouted at me, as she isn't that kind of person.

 

Ok, there is lot's of back story to this, there have been 4 or 5 bad arguments in the past, where I lost my temper and shouted at her. I have acknowledged this, been working on this with my therapist, and I have stopped allowing myself to even get close to losing my temper.

 

My question: obviously, she has blocked out the memory of her shouting. I understand that to an extent, but she totally denies it could even happen.

By insisting on my version of the story when she doesn't believe that happened, is that also gas lighting her in return? I mean,I know what the truth is, but if she honestly sees it differently, then what? She tried to say that my shouting at her was much worse, than what she 'might' have done, so therefore it wasn't shouting, or something.

 

 

Very tricky.

She has denied mean things she has done in the past, and I can see that she doesn't accept that she might have anger or meanness in her. There is probably a great deal of shame around this for her, hence her shutting it out.

 

I do love her, but I worry that this will never change, and I will wear myself out just setting boundaries all the time.

Thoughts?

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Sorry to hear this. How long have you been dating? Arguments typically have each persons recollection of the events, often with the other person doing the wrong. That's why they are arguments.

 

The problem here may be incompatibility and chronic arguing. Once sinister motives like this are assigned it becomes more chronic with each rehashing the last argument until the arguing is about the arguments. That is it reaches a constant control struggle.

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Thanks for the speedy reply. There is a lot of back story and context. I would say we are complimentary opposites, which is to say, when it's good, it's all we could wish for, and when it's bad, it brings up very deeply buried stuff from childhood. Imago stuff. We've known each other for about 15 months, but mostly long distance. I'm moving back home, to wear she lives next Sat, so we will finally be in the same town, and I hope things will be better. We need some steady and stable stuff.

 

We don't really argue at the moment, things have been very good for the last 2 months, better in fact than ever, which is why we are able to talk about the past without it turning into a fight. Today's talk was tough, but was very warm and friendly. It just touched on old stuff, and we discovered that we have very different memories about what happened.

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See what happens when you reunite in person. Don't dredge up the past and who said what, it's the road to hell. No one is a human recording device and perspective/perceptions differ. Add to that that the same words can have a different meaning in emotional contexts. Who's right, who's wrong can go in circles forever.

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My question: obviously, she has blocked out the memory of her shouting. I understand that to an extent, but she totally denies it could even happen.

By insisting on my version of the story when she doesn't believe that happened, is that also gas lighting her in return? I mean,I know what the truth is, but if she honestly sees it differently, then what? She tried to say that my shouting at her was much worse, than what she 'might' have done, so therefore it wasn't shouting, or something.

 

You know what your truth is. She has her own truth. Somewhere in the middle is the real truth of what happened.

 

This doesn't mean your truth isn't valid or right... it's what you believe, what you felt, what you heard. Thing is, she has her own perception of the situation which, right or wrong, is how she perceives things and arguing with her or forcing her to see your point of view won't change it.

 

It takes two to have conflict just as much as it takes two to make a relationship work. Wishing and hoping for things to change won't make it happen... you both have to be wiling to work together to make it work.

 

Ideally if you are both viewing things from such a wildly different perspective, it would be helpful for you to have an impartial person such as a therapist mediating between you while you discuss your issues.

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Hmm, the problem is, her truth is false. She DID shout at me. That is something that actually happened. My truth is not what I believe, belief has nothing to do with it. I don't believe that she shouted at me, I know she did. She believes she didn't because she cannot face that she is an angry person. There is a difference. Of course it takes two people for a conflict to continue, but it only takes one to try to start one. When we had this conflict, I was trying to start a dialogue with her by sharing my anxiety with her in an non judgmental way, about her distancing from me. She responded by shouting at me and suggesting we break up. She doesn't want to face this reality as it is painful to her.

 

At some point, if she wants to grow into a more adult person, she's going to have to learn to take responsibility for her actions.

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As long as this is your mindset, you need to end things unless you both enjoy cat and mouse games, deriding and devaluing each other and having a sparring partner rather than a relationship.

 

You seem to hate her want to manage and control her and have zero respect for her so why bother? It just going to devolve into more mental abuse for both of you.

 

No, people who are merely dating and long distance no less do not need therapy. They need accept it's not working and walk away with dignity. You sound way too angry to sustain any relationship right now.

 

You are acting as if you're some honcho trail attorney and she's on trail. And you are the judge and jury as to what "the truth" is. What are you thinking? It's you who needs to "grow into a more adult person" and end it.

the problem is her truth is false. she's going to have to learn to take responsibility for her actions.
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Wiseman 2, thank you for your comments. I realise I come across as a total **** here. Honestly, I don't hate this woman. We both really like each other, and have struggled, over distance, to find a common ground. To be totally frank, when she denies things that she has done, it scares the bejessus out of me, and makes it very hard me to feel safe with her.

 

I am hoping,when I move back next week, that we can start to spend some time together, gently, slowly, to build the foundation of a relationship. We have agreed for now to be 'just friends' knowing that we both want more, but to keep romance away, until we can get that sense of security down, or if not, walk away.

 

I'm sorry I went on a rant, and yes, it's important that I learn to see her side of things, or at least try to understand why she doesn't remember doing things that I remember happening. I have an idea why she can't remember and I am sympathetic.

 

Thanks again.

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Does she have a lot of abuse in her childhood? Not remembering what happened when really stressed can happen. It can happen to me at times because I have PTSD. It is like a flip switches and I am not there. Once as a teenager I actually forgot who I was for about 20 mins.

 

This is not to give her an excuse because what she is doing is unacceptable, but more a reason as why during conflict she doesn’t remember conversations as they really went.

 

The fact that she can’t take responsibility for her actions and words would give me pause about continuing this relationship.

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For the record, I dont think you're coming off as a jerk at all. I've been in similar situations and it's incredibly frustrating when a person flat out denies having done something that you witnessed with your own eyes. Its maddening. Regardless, can you tolerate being with someone who will never acknowledge their part in an argument?? That was a discussion I had with my husband before we got married. I told him that if I am upset about something and I tell you so, you dont get to tell me that I'm wrong or it didn't happen. You acknowledge my feelings, try to see where I'm coming from, and go from there. And I said I would do the same in return. If you're telling your girlfriend "you really hurt my feelings when you shouted at me when I was just trying to explain my feelings..." and her response is to deny ever having shouted at you, that's a huge problem. You can't talk that out. There's nothing to talk about until she starts caring about your feelings. I could never tolerate someone disregarding me like that, let alone my "partner".

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Hmm, the problem is, her truth is false. She DID shout at me. That is something that actually happened. My truth is not what I believe, belief has nothing to do with it. I don't believe that she shouted at me, I know she did. She believes she didn't because she cannot face that she is an angry person. There is a difference. Of course it takes two people for a conflict to continue, but it only takes one to try to start one. When we had this conflict, I was trying to start a dialogue with her by sharing my anxiety with her in an non judgmental way, about her distancing from me. She responded by shouting at me and suggesting we break up. She doesn't want to face this reality as it is painful to her.

 

At some point, if she wants to grow into a more adult person, she's going to have to learn to take responsibility for her actions.

 

And at some point if you want to have a healthy relationship you will need to stop blaming and take responsibility for your behaviours and perceptions.

 

Works both ways.

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See what happens when you reunite in person. Don't dredge up the past and who said what, it's the road to hell. No one is a human recording device and perspective/perceptions differ. Add to that that the same words can have a different meaning in emotional contexts. Who's right, who's wrong can go in circles forever.

 

You know what your truth is. She has her own truth. Somewhere in the middle is the real truth of what happened.

 

This doesn't mean your truth isn't valid or right... it's what you believe, what you felt, what you heard. Thing is, she has her own perception of the situation which, right or wrong, is how she perceives things and arguing with her or forcing her to see your point of view won't change it.

 

It takes two to have conflict just as much as it takes two to make a relationship work. Wishing and hoping for things to change won't make it happen... you both have to be wiling to work together to make it work.

 

Ideally if you are both viewing things from such a wildly different perspective, it would be helpful for you to have an impartial person such as a therapist mediating between you while you discuss your issues.

 

And at some point if you want to have a healthy relationship you will need to stop blaming and take responsibility for your behaviours and perceptions.

 

Works both ways.

 

Agree with all these especially the last. It kinda seems like you’re right fighting right now because you don’t want to let go and move forward. Neither one of you was right. What’s the point of dragging it out?

 

You either forgive each other or you don’t. You cant force her to see things your way. There’s your reality, her reality and reality.

 

I agree with another poster having an impartial person hear you both out may help.

 

Be brutally honest though, are you wanting to reach a happy relationship or are you hung up on being right? Because if it’s the latter this won’t work

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