Women think I'm creepy. I think I really, really just realized that.

I spoke to an old college friend on the phone some weeks ago. She's a former classmate from about 10+ years ago. Wonderful woman. When I met her she was a bit goth. Now she's a bit goth and a theoretical physicist. She used to tease me about being creepy a long time ago. I mistook it for flirting. On the phone a few weeks ago she said I'm still creepy. I wasn't sure any longer if it was "flirting". She specifically suggested the nature of my creative practice was "dark" and "creepy" which I think is unfair. I focus on influences from art from the western region of Africa from the period of 1600-1800s--wooden figurines covered in dirt, blood, spit, etc. It's beautiful.

I invited a strange female artist to my place this evening. I came across her on Tinder. All her photos are of her wearing a mask. No faces. She's sometimes in a bikini. Often posing in unusual places. She lives in a van that has "The sadness is forever" spray painted on the side. She allowed me to take photos of her at my place, on a random late Sunday night. So the entire set up is... unusual. She kept remarking on how I'm creepy. It was confusing. At a certain point I told her that I felt bad that she felt that way and that she can leave but she said, "No, I wouldn't stay here if I wasn't comfortable."

So they are not the only two people to ever call my creepy but I'm confused by the entire thing. I make cynical art. I make somber work. It makes sense to me. I linger when I look at women. It's a bad habit but I know how I am. I gather my obsessions and habits into a creative form. It's positive. I'm unsettled that I come off as creepy so often but I can't tell if I should "OWN" it. I can't tell if these women are teasing me. As far as I'm concerned, I'm just me.

Replied in one of your similar threads on this same topic: Low esteem/attraction question

Replied in one of your similar threads on this same topic: Low esteem/attraction question

Okay. I hear what you're saying. I will take that into account. What I'm trying to say however is that I don't necessarily think I'm creepy. Women have told I am. Do you think my insecurity about being called creepy is an esteem issue? If so I'm willing to sit on that idea and consider it.

Oh wait, you're saying I may look unappealing and may come off as creepy for those reasons. That's possible. I'll dive further into that.

Your post honestly made my stomach clench up a little bit, because it was creepy

The dirt, blood, spit thing is a bit creepy to me. I get why it’s beautiful - but if I went to a guys place and he had blood covered figurines, I’d be out.

WHYYYY on earth did you invite someone just wearing a mask over? That is so bizarre. Why photos?

The lingering thing will definitely come off as creepy too.

Clearly there are women who like it though.

There is a plethora of "dark" and controversial art out there. Nothing new under the sun. Plenty of Mapplethorpes, Pollocks, etc. out there. You should know if you went to art school or visit any museums. Nothing novel about it.

If you are going for shock value that's not new either. It's trite by now and to anyone who has ever been to a world class museum. What is "creepy" is the whole misunderstood genius thing and all self important, self absorbed stuff. It just comes off as arrogant and off-putting rather than "artistic".

Just be yourself and do your artwork for you and stop trying to gain approval or attention from dates, gf, friends, etc. Focus on getting your artwork displayed at shows, fairs, whatever.

She specifically suggested the nature of my creative practice was "dark" and "creepy". they are not the only two people to ever call my creepy.

Forget about using other women as your benchmark. Use your own instincts.

You violate other people's boundaries with your art and your lingering. Similar (ironically?) to how Jenny Holzer violates viewers boundaries with her projection of loaded and/or offensive sentences.

As you say, it's just who you are. It IS what gives a creepy feeling. To decreepify, (1) move the art to a studio, so that when entertaining you open your space to a broader audience and broader variety of atmospheres. (2) stop lingering with your eyes. You are objectifying strangers so that your visual memory can later inform your art, which I understand. Often to paint etc we must objecify the subject. A certain emotional distance between photographer or painter and subect, I get it.

However, these unknown people did not agree to be your subjects. Therefore lingering looks violate the boundary between you as stranger to stranger. It is creepy, mildly threatening, and disrespectful to ignore that boundary among strangers.

Change these two things and your creepiness will decrease. If you retain them, then claim them. Know that these behaviors will create a boundary between you and others, and consider whether that is your intention.

I agree with wiseman. It comes across as trying too hard to put across a certain image. A bit pretentious and arrogant.

That's just me.

If you want to be serious about art, do it. Dig in, learn about all kinds of art, get your stuff out there and develop as an artist.

This just strikes me as 'high school' ish mentality with jocks, nerds, artists, goths blah blah blah. It only serves to insulate you from from broadening your mind.

I invited a strange female artist to my place this evening. I came across her on Tinder. All her photos are of her wearing a mask. No faces. She's sometimes in a bikini. Often posing in unusual places. She lives in a van that has "The sadness is forever" spray painted on the side. She allowed me to take photos of her at my place, on a random late Sunday night. So the entire set up is... unusual. She kept remarking on how I'm creepy. It was confusing. At a certain point I told her that I felt bad that she felt that way and that she can leave but she said, "No, I wouldn't stay here if I wasn't comfortable."

If you produce art which is covered with dirt, blood, spit etc, some people will find it creepy. It will chime with some other people, especially if they're interested in the darker side of life (I know a few artist friends who I'm sure would be interested in your work). When your date described you as 'creepy', was it actually a compliment? Going by your description of her, it's an adjective which also applies to her. However, it might be useful for you to find out what she meant.

The kind of guys I'd describe as 'creepy' are the ones who stare in an intrusive way or otherwise invade my personal space, like asking intrusive questions. A male friend of a friend, someone I didn't know and had never met, once went through all the photos of me on FB and 'Liked' every one of them, concluding with the comment "You are sooooo pretty nutbrownhare..." I blocked him immediately because I found it creepy - regardless of how he presented himself or apparently normal he looked.

I've also met people who were into the black leather goth look with makeup intended to make them look like vampires or zombies, who weren't creepy at all.

I'll just leave you with this little clip from Woody Allen. For some reason your post reminded me of it.

Can I ask why you are dating so soon out of a relationship?

It sounds like you collect voodoo items. I have seen those items in West Africa, and they are creepy to most.

Creepy is not a compliment. Quite the opposite.

" I linger when I look at women." This is unacceptable! It makes women VERY uncomfortable. " You try to put this all under an artistic guise, but it is simply unacceptable and weird. You need to stop this and consider how it makes people feel.

"but I can't tell if I should OWN it." What else is there for you to do? You kind of contradicted yourself there. You went on to say that as far as you're concerned, you're just you. So in a sense, you are owning it. And it doesn't sound like you want to change that aspect of yourself. I mean, your name alone means "dark." To me it seems like you want people to perceive you differently, but they aren't going to. The majority of people will find figurines covered in dirt, blood and spit creepy and probably disgusting, despite it being beautiful to you. Despite the history.

I'm not "normal" for my appearance. I don't fit inside many of the constraints that define who I am "supposed" to be. Stereotypes, whatever. I am just me, as well. And I would love for people to just accept me for who I am, but the reality is that isn't always going to be the case. I know people expect me to fit inside these boxes that they've created for me. And it sucks. So if that is what you're getting at, that you don't want people to find your interests or behavior creepy, you have to let that go and just own who you are. Completely. Just like the average person is going to expect me to behave a certain way, the average person is going to find your interests creepy. There's no getting around that. But there will be that minority that is just as interested in those things as you are, or maybe they simply peak their interest.

Your post honestly made my stomach clench up a little bit, because it was creepy

 

The dirt, blood, spit thing is a bit creepy to me. I get why it’s beautiful - but if I went to a guys place and he had blood covered figurines, I’d be out.

 

WHYYYY on earth did you invite someone just wearing a mask over? That is so bizarre. Why photos?

 

The lingering thing will definitely come off as creepy too.

 

Clearly there are women who like it though.

:)

Your questions, I understand, are completely sincere. What I'm describing likely sounds more terrifying than it is. Additionally it all sounds exciting and fun to me :)

These figurines, wood sculptures, are left out in the sun. So all the detritus on the items turn to crust and a dark layer. There's no visible blood. Also I only own one wooden figure and it's very likely to be inauthentic which suggests there's no dried blood on it at all. Not that this detail has to change perception of it. The perception of the item carries more weight than the details of its origin. Which is part of the reason I like these works and it deals back the subject of African art from a certain period. A great subject.

Your other point: I need to stop lingering.

There is a plethora of "dark" and controversial art out there. Nothing new under the sun. Plenty of Mapplethorpes, Pollocks, etc. out there. You should know if you went to art school or visit any museums. Nothing novel about it.

 

If you are going for shock value that's not new either. It's trite by now and to anyone who has ever been to a world class museum. What is "creepy" is the whole misunderstood genius thing and all self important, self absorbed stuff. It just comes off as arrogant and off-putting rather than "artistic".

 

Just be yourself and do your artwork for you and stop trying to gain approval or attention from dates, gf, friends, etc. Focus on getting your artwork displayed at shows, fairs, whatever.

I guess I gotta own it or rather I WANT to own it. I'm occasionally thrown off by the comments. Here's why I'm thrown off:

1) I don't perceive the work--or things I surround myself with--as creepy.

2) I do worry if people are developing an extra conception of me based on their potentially flawed perception of the creative practice I have

Example: MANY people dislike African art. Many people of a certain religion consider African art/Spiritual systems to be demonic. These people don't actually understand how racist and biased this is. When I was in college discovering my interest in African art I was immediately confronting people who expressed their disapproval of the work and their religious suspicion of the work. From that they perceived me as engaging in some nonsensical, "evil", religious practice (I'm an atheist).

So going back to #2: I do worry if and when people develop a flawed idea of me because they don't understand the motivations of the work I admire and the creative practice I try to engage in. However I need to finally abandon that, entirely, and just focus on the work. Maybe I'll roll my eyes the next time they say "creepy".

Forget about using other women as your benchmark. Use your own instincts.

 

You violate other people's boundaries with your art and your lingering. Similar (ironically?) to how Jenny Holzer violates viewers boundaries with her projection of loaded and/or offensive sentences.

 

As you say, it's just who you are. It IS what gives a creepy feeling. To decreepify, (1) move the art to a studio, so that when entertaining you open your space to a broader audience and broader variety of atmospheres. (2) stop lingering with your eyes. You are objectifying strangers so that your visual memory can later inform your art, which I understand. Often to paint etc we must objecify the subject. A certain emotional distance between photographer or painter and subect, I get it.

 

However, these unknown people did not agree to be your subjects. Therefore lingering looks violate the boundary between you as stranger to stranger. It is creepy, mildly threatening, and disrespectful to ignore that boundary among strangers.

 

Change these two things and your creepiness will decrease. If you retain them, then claim them. Know that these behaviors will create a boundary between you and others, and consider whether that is your intention.

Thank goodness. I believe you understand the lingering aspect. I did a photoshoot with the woman who visited me. My intention was to express a lingering and distance through the photos and it felt like a relief in a way to explore a subject in more official terms.

I need to stop this with strangers. To a large extent I have, compared to when I was younger. In some ways these photo shoots, that are devoid of sex and intimacy, are an emotional exploration of my eye/mind expressing a want which becomes very depersonalized through the process. Something photographers have to claim ownership over. It's very therapeutic.

I have a friend, another artist, who is not creepy. He has this significant quality about him: he's open about his wants, desires, lust, and intimate needs with those he wishes to express it to. He's not bottled up and he's very happy, positive, and respectful about it. I suspect sex, intimacy, and making art are on the same spectrum for him--a spectrum relating to emotional or physical expression. No one would ever call him creepy.

I am always pretty bottled up. I don't know how to express needs or desire. So I know I do so awkwardly through my art. We're diving into sex here but let me just give a general idea: I'm shy about sex. Insecure. A lot of my art drips in a sexuality or painful lingering/longing. I suspect it relates to my sexual awkwardness.

I'll bring this up with my therapist.

I guess I gotta own it or rather I WANT to own it. I'm occasionally thrown off by the comments. Here's why I'm thrown off:

 

1) I don't perceive the work--or things I surround myself with--as creepy.

2) I do worry if people are developing an extra conception of me based on their potentially flawed perception of the creative practice I have

 

Example: MANY people dislike African art. Many people of a certain religion consider African art/Spiritual systems to be demonic. These people don't actually understand how racist and biased this is. When I was in college discovering my interest in African art I was immediately confronting people who expressed their disapproval of the work and their religious suspicion of the work. From that they perceived me as engaging in some nonsensical, "evil", religious practice (I'm an atheist).

 

So going back to #2: I do worry if and when people develop a flawed idea of me because they don't understand the motivations of the work I admire and the creative practice I try to engage in. However I need to finally abandon that, entirely, and just focus on the work. Maybe I'll roll my eyes the next time they say "creepy".

To me much of this comes across as arrogant and condescending. Maybe they are not "flawed" in their thinking and maybe they don't lack in "understanding" - consider that maybe you don't interact with people in a way that makes them feel comfortable in their own skin. Consider that maybe you elevate your desire to have others agree with your opinions about art and race over playing nicely in the sandbox with people. Do you want to be "right" or "close"? If you want to narrow your world to people who think and feel just like you do about your art, fine. And if you want to do that by alienating people with the attitudes that you express in your posts, that's fine too. But then please don't expect to have an easy time finding someone who wants to date you with potential for a relationship.

If you produce art which is covered with dirt, blood, spit etc, some people will find it creepy. It will chime with some other people, especially if they're interested in the darker side of life (I know a few artist friends who I'm sure would be interested in your work). When your date described you as 'creepy', was it actually a compliment? Going by your description of her, it's an adjective which also applies to her. However, it might be useful for you to find out what she meant.

 

The kind of guys I'd describe as 'creepy' are the ones who stare in an intrusive way or otherwise invade my personal space, like asking intrusive questions. A male friend of a friend, someone I didn't know and had never met, once went through all the photos of me on FB and 'Liked' every one of them, concluding with the comment "You are sooooo pretty nutbrownhare..." I blocked him immediately because I found it creepy - regardless of how he presented himself or apparently normal he looked.

 

I've also met people who were into the black leather goth look with makeup intended to make them look like vampires or zombies, who weren't creepy at all.

 

I'll just leave you with this little clip from Woody Allen. For some reason your post reminded me of it.

I won't dive too deeply in the theory my work or my appreciation for African art but I will say that I believe there's a strong misconception of African art (of a certain period) and so people associate it with darkness. In a way the work sort of/sometimes deals with death but it also deals with other subjects that are practical, pragmatic.

https://galerie-latelier.com/objets-art-africain/couple-cadenas-ewe/

Regarding her calling me "creepy": was it a compliment? I don't know. I partly wanted to meet her because I was convinced this random woman who lives in a van and often wears a mask would NOT think I'm creepy. Also it wasn't a date. I sincerely just invited her over to paint. I was lonely and just wanted company and someone to talk to. She came off as someone I need not to pursue as a date.

This is her: Girl with bunny mask

And the Woody Allen scene. Before it got to the joke with Allen asking her on a date, that was exactly what I was thinking. She reminds me of people I know.

Can I ask why you are dating so soon out of a relationship?

It was not a date. I did not intend it as a date. I just wanted a guest over to paint because I wanted company. The meeting felt too variable and so I was not comfortable framing it as a date.

It sounds like you collect voodoo items. I have seen those items in West Africa, and they are creepy to most.

 

Creepy is not a compliment. Quite the opposite.

 

" I linger when I look at women." This is unacceptable! It makes women VERY uncomfortable. " You try to put this all under an artistic guise, but it is simply unacceptable and weird. You need to stop this and consider how it makes people feel.

I'm not trying to put it under an artistic guise. It's a bad habit. Lonely habit. I think I'm better than I used to be but I have to stop. I suspect it relates to my shyness and self-anger. I interact with some men who are much more about their desires, wants, and needs and it shows in how they interact with people. I am... not comfortable with that and I think that comes out as lingering. I will speak to my therapist about it.

I understand that people who negative views towards Vodou objects but the history and anthropological analysis of these works is amazing and important. They are simply a reflection of survival, pain, processing, and reality.

I won't dive too deeply in the theory my work or my appreciation for African art but I will say that I believe there's a strong misconception of African art (of a certain period) and so people associate it with darkness. In a way the work sort of/sometimes deals with death but it also deals with other subjects that are practical, pragmatic.

 

https://galerie-latelier.com/objets-art-africain/couple-cadenas-ewe/

 

Regarding her calling me "creepy": was it a compliment? I don't know. I partly wanted to meet her because I was convinced this random woman who lives in a van and often wears a mask would NOT think I'm creepy. Also it wasn't a date. I sincerely just invited her over to paint. I was lonely and just wanted company and someone to talk to. She came off as someone I need not to pursue as a date.

 

This is her: Girl with bunny mask

 

And the Woody Allen scene. Before it got to the joke with Allen asking her on a date, that was exactly what I was thinking. She reminds me of people I know.

You're very lucky that you weren't hurt by this random stranger (or whoever else she could have brought with her). If you're that lonely then find a public place to paint -I'm sure there are meetup groups who arrange studio time, etc.

"but I can't tell if I should OWN it." What else is there for you to do? You kind of contradicted yourself there. You went on to say that as far as you're concerned, you're just you. So in a sense, you are owning it. And it doesn't sound like you want to change that aspect of yourself. I mean, your name alone means "dark." To me it seems like you want people to perceive you differently, but they aren't going to. The majority of people will find figurines covered in dirt, blood and spit creepy and probably disgusting, despite it being beautiful to you. Despite the history.

 

I'm not "normal" for my appearance. I don't fit inside many of the constraints that define who I am "supposed" to be. Stereotypes, whatever. I am just me, as well. And I would love for people to just accept me for who I am, but the reality is that isn't always going to be the case. I know people expect me to fit inside these boxes that they've created for me. And it sucks. So if that is what you're getting at, that you don't want people to find your interests or behavior creepy, you have to let that go and just own who you are. Completely. Just like the average person is going to expect me to behave a certain way, the average person is going to find your interests creepy. There's no getting around that. But there will be that minority that is just as interested in those things as you are, or maybe they simply peak their interest.

I need to claim more ownership. I suspect my disappointment in myself comes out as creepy when if I loved myself more, my behaviour would instead come off as positive--despite the nature of my creative practice. I am contradicting myself probably. I do want to be accepted but I don't know how to demand it or when to put my foot down. I will speak to my therapist about this.

You're very lucky that you weren't hurt by this random stranger (or whoever else she could have brought with her). If you're that lonely then find a public place to paint -I'm sure there are meetup groups who arrange studio time, etc.

Well, at a certain point I want to take risks in life. I like meeting strangers. This wasn't the first time.

Well, at a certain point I want to take risks in life. I like meeting strangers. This wasn't the first time.

Of course we all take risks -that's basically a truism. I am talking about this individual risk that you took in this individual situation. You can meet a stranger in a public place especially a stranger who seem to have a sketchy situation and won't even show you her face.

I think you are over complicating this. When women feel comfortable being around you, being your friends, hanging out at your place, taking pics, etc, etc, etc. - they don't see you as a creep in the horrible negative sense of the term. What it more likely means is either they are teasing you a little or they find certain interests of yours as creepy, but they don't find you as a human being creepy. If they thought you are an actual creep, they'd run away screaming from you and not be friends with you or risk coming to your house.

Even this woman when you told that you are uncomfortable with how she is talking to you and she should leave, immediately assured you that it's not at all what she means. Maybe next time you have some woman tell you that you are creepy, ask her more what she means by that and why is she saying it.

My personal take is that it's just the way you talk about your inspiration for your art work. Nothing wrong with it, but maybe don't emphasize so much how you find it beautiful because most average people will literally think "well that's creepy" even though they see you as a person as perfectly benign. Maybe try to compartmentalize a little your art and inspiration from who you want to be socially. Filter a bit.

Who cares? 🙃 Art depicting rape, wars, torture, murder, mutilation, religion, animistic beliefs, etc has been around for all time. Visit any cathedral or museum or war memorial. You have never seen Vincent with his ear bandaged or crucifixion depictions or art depicting soldiers and war?

Get off the phone with these "many people" and get to some art museums and art shows. Go to the many excellent museums in LA or go to the 9/11 memorials in NYC.

What is getting in your way is thinking anyone who doesn't "appreciate" your art is pedestrian and that most people only want to see Normal Rockwell and black velvet Elvis paintings. Nothing could be further from the truth. Music as well has been "dark" for all time from Mozart requiems to 60s protest music about shooting students to rap music about drive-by shootings, etc. Wake up.

Who is "many people"? You need to open your mind and expand your social circle to include more open minded people.

I don't perceive the work--or things I surround myself with--as creepy.

I do worry if people are developing an extra conception of me based on their potentially flawed perception of the creative practice I have

MANY people dislike African art.