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I love her, she does not, it is OK but...


Le Coeur

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...it still torments me and I need to figure out this..

 

 

This is going to be long, but I put great effort to explain clearly what is the case and all the necessary details. Every paragraph is important to understand the whole picture, I believe. had to inlude my philosophical insignt as well as the story.

 

Thank you very much for reading and good advice!

 

The story behind:

 

live in Parisian Suburbs. A lot of people from different communities and cultures. meet and work, live here. Along my demanding job I decided to have some more hobby which fulfills me - I chose singing. I have a real passion for it, it is not "just" the music, but culture and all... So I went to singing classes, where we practice together. It is quite demanding for your confidence, you have to perform in front of people and, very pretty women :) . I am shy, and has hard times there because of this.

 

One teacher noticed me... I can tell she liked me from very beginning because I am a bit different from other men there but... I was searching for private teacher, I wanted to learn faster. I tried a couple, and eventually ended up with her when no one was available. I I can tell, she is beautiful - you can imagine the combination - well groomed, cultured, beautiful voice and singing technique and... she likes to flirt, which is OK. She noticed my shyness and decided to do a little "service" for me - raise me confidence, to let me feel I am not that bad I think I was and that I can prevail in a culture dominated by women... Simply to help me to prevail in society of singers. So she taught me and she flirted... but she showed it is JUST fun and she has boyfriend (started to talk about him and so...). (Btw. this "flirting" was very obvious, I truly not imagine it).

 

And i went EXCELLENT!! I had best times in many years with that beautiful beautiful woman. Not only enjoyed sing, but also her company. Although I was always frozen by shyness and awkwardness next to her :) (she is kinda... too beautiful for me...).

 

as you clearly see I feel in love with her... But I know how to control. So no problem with that!

 

Why do I love her:

 

I analyzed why I love her. It not just look and some taught charisma - a lot of people has that. Above all, it is her qualities, like hard working attitude, her ambitions... she is very successful in every aspect of life, she pretty much figured out life and won it! She is popular, has great social life, great boyfriend, she shines with confidence happiness. And this terribly inspires me!!!

 

Why is she so important to me (despite she does not care for me much):

 

However it emotionally hurts I am not much to her, the reason I care is that she represents everything I hold important in life - her career, her achievements, her personality triats, her charisma, confidence, even character of study and work. She is pretty much me if I was...well more successful and achieved all I wanted. And this is great inspiration.

 

Why is it super important to meet and get to know women like her:

 

I met a few women like her before, and they all left a huge mark in me. One taught me discipline and humbleness, another to stay profeesional all the time, next one - extremely important - goodness in heart. All these traits are after years deeply integrated in my personality, I am strong at each and every one of them today. And now there is her - she can transform my personality too, teach me ambitions and ability to reach goals. By dedication, discipline, courage...and maybe a bit of pride :) .

 

Why is this great approach:

 

In order to improve something on yourself, something that is very hard and difficult, like learn to learn (extraordinary) discipline, you need two things: a) some sort of seed in you, there simply must be your affinity for it and b) a huge push. This transformations take years and can be very tiring or even painful. Like discipline, you are going to practice it day after day after day... And you WILL feel miserable and about to give up. What will you do in such situations? You think of "her". How she sees this person in you, and how she leads by example. And this is powerful. And easy. All you need to do is to remember the good times and focus on it. It does not fade over times, first woman who infected me with discipline did so 10 years ago... And I still feel it like it was yesterday...

 

So here I am, having chance to gain another power - ambitions!!!

 

What is the problem:

 

Well, clearly, what was supposed to be just a little fun flirt turned out into love, for me. She sees it. I don't think that would be a problem for her, but it does affect my behavior. Above all, when I hold dear someone and even feel love, I will become awkward... you know what I mean. I am grown man, I have no stupid expectations but also... I am loner, don't have any girl and probably for a long time will not have, so all this factors make me a bit... well, needy. Not in a sense I pester someone, I am a proud man, but in a sense one can feel it. You know how women are... all of them... once they feel they have control over man, he automatically stops being interesting and respectful for them :). She will be no exception.

 

 

So what to do????

 

You tell me.

 

In best scenario I would be glad she knows I... admire her, but for sober, real reasons, not "sad boy found his object of desire BS", but because she is a great person - according to my values.Stay friend and enjoy time together. But I feel very negative about this scenario...not because I doubted her, but because I would doubt everybody. I already tried to befriend college, partner who I sang duo, to have better times together. Result: typical women vanity... You know what I mean, maybe.

 

 

 

Thank you!!!

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you did not date her. She just flirted a little. I say don't say anything/don't confess your feelings to her. It was harmless flirting to her. So let it be. And you DO have her high on a pedestal for sure - you idealize her. So let her go. Be polite and friendly when you see her but do not force or pursue a friendship

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Well, I don't think there's anything that you can do in this situation. She has a boyfriend. Maybe one day they will break up, but until then it's best to consider her off limits. I think your attitude is very positive, though. Sometimes men become resentful of women that they admire, especially when the women don't return their feelings. That attitude is very unattractive, and as far as I am concerned destroys any future chance there could have been. Your positive, inspired attitude is much more appealing. I am sure it will lead you to a happy relationship in the future.

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you did not date her. She just flirted a little. I say don't say anything/don't confess your feelings to her. It was harmless flirting to her. So let it be. And you DO have her high on a pedestal for sure - you idealize her. So let her go. Be polite and friendly when you see her but do not force or pursue a friendship

 

 

I partially agree what you said, but my question is: did you read what I wrote? Your reply does not seems to consider any of that, like as if you read the title and a few lines...

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Thank you for reply.

 

I absolutely do not want to date her, she is happy with her current one, quite possibly will marry him, I would never do anything that harms her happiness.

 

"Sometimes men become resentful of women that they admire, especially when the women don't return their feelings. "

 

never ever. If they do, this either means they never truly loved her, just were horny, or are terrible people. How can you hate somebody you loved? I cannot imagine it, as long as I truly love.

 

"Your positive, inspired attitude is much more appealing. I am sure it will lead you to a happy relationship in the future."

 

Thank you very much! This means for me a lot and I will remember your words, believe me! But... what to do here?....

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You feel lust, possibly even admiration, but not love.

 

Love is something far more deeper and comes when you know a person inside and out, not just superficially. You would need to spend time with them, see them in good times and in bad and have a shared emotional bond and feelings on the same level as one another.

 

Lust has more to do with wanting someone, admiring someone, finding them attractive. But that is still not love. Love is a mutual thing between you and the other person.

 

When it goes only one way, it is lust. Just wanted to point that out.

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It's her job to make you feel good about the classes. It's quite common to have a crush on the teacher. But as you stated, she has a BF she keeps telling you about.

 

...it is not common for singing teachers to have unzipped her shirt suspiciously low but... OK, I am getting your drift :)

 

I do not to start a discussion here whether my impression is right or wrong, but this gives me a feedback - I see how people see me after I write smt. such as this. Which is very important to me... few people would understand my thoughts... But I need to test it more...

 

Anyway, merci beaucoup :)

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You feel lust, possibly even admiration, but not love.

 

Love is something far more deeper and comes when you know a person inside and out, not just superficially. You would need to spend time with them, see them in good times and in bad and have a shared emotional bond and feelings on the same level as one another.

 

Lust has more to do with wanting someone, admiring someone, finding them attractive. But that is still not love. Love is a mutual thing between you and the other person.

 

When it goes only one way, it is lust. Just wanted to point that out.

 

Very good remark, thank you!

 

...but you are wrong :)

 

I believe we are clear on difference between To Love and Be In Love.

 

But what does it me to love somebody?

 

For me, love is unconditional. It does not matter what person think of me. I mentioned about 4 women I claim I truly love. One of them.... despises me. She think I am crazy moron... sadly, she has her reasons... I have not always been the best person... But that does not change a thing about what I think of her after all those years. If any of them called me out of blue... and for some reason asked "Lucien, so glad to hear you, I need your help..." I am not asking why, or why do you call me, my only question is "what can I do for you?" and also "I am so happy to hear you too :) "

 

Simply, love is unconditional. And does not fade over time.

 

That is my definition.

 

 

But once again, merci for feedback. I see how I seem to people... foolish and naive, right? Two people in singing classes noticed... and they both took me for stupid too... funnily, so did I them, when I saw how shallow and simple they are...

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Coucou le coeur,

Votre anglais est très bien par rapport mon français... I can relate to your life a bit. I'm also a singer, well, have just started this year anyway (I was in a professional choir group back in high school but that was a long time ago and with a group). I've never taken lessons for my solo work, but have seriously considered it last month, and I think a little bit of instruction can go a long way not just with singing but anything you want to get good at.

 

Anyway, your vocal teacher. First of all, feelings and attraction aside, I think it's wildly inappropriate she was flirting with you if she was your teacher. You went to her for vocal lessons, right? So you two should be working on SINGING. She shouldn't be using your time together to flirt with you, even if you're shy. Unless you are overlooking into things she was teaching you. Maybe she tried to boost your confidence to sing on stage, or paid you a compliment. That doesn't mean she is interested in you.

 

Second, as everyone else here pointed out; you have not dated this woman, you never went on a date, and she has a boyfriend. Elle à un copain!!! You do not "love" her. She has zero interest in you. If she's really flirting with you and has a boyfriend, she's a big, fat tease. Some women are like that, especially in the States but I suppose over in Paris, too. You're barking up the wrong tree, friend. My advice; get a different vocal teacher. You need to work with someone that you're not going to have feelings for and someone that's not gonna flirt and tease you which I think is extremely unprofessional if that was the case.

 

And, if you want to date, go date. Forget about this woman who is taken and find someone that is a good match for you. Vous habitez la ville de amour, n'est-ce pas? Il y a beaucoup les femmes sans petits amis en Paris, oui?!

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By the way you wrote about her, you have her up on a pedestal in an idealized sort of way.

 

Oh, I see now. My apology you sounded like... as if you just read the title and a couple of lines, thought "meh, another silly little naive boy" and spat your doubts of me, but you are third out of four people who did the same... which leads me somewhere...

 

anyway, I was thinking about this today:

 

and my answer is no.

 

Here is why:

 

As I wrote, her objective qualities are... way above me. I do not want to share personal details here, I will just do one more: Aside her excellence in arts, she has a PhD. in Math and works for the Academy. One prestigious Parisian University, should you be from France, I am sure you would have knows name of the institution...

 

Will this be enough?|

 

And this person noticed me. Me, who is nobody.

 

So duck yeah, that means for me something!

 

But it is not some shallow "career and skill evaluation" that lead me to my thoughts... that I learned only later. I virtually fall in love with her the first time I saw her. When I left first lesson, was dizzy and daydreaming about her. Yep...

 

Hmm... this does not go well... I am losing trust in humanity somewhat :) Or am I really that strange? I really need to test it more before I do smt. silly in real life! :)

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The thing is, you base this so called love on so little, it sounds more like lust and admiration, which is not love.

 

To love someone, you should know them inside and out. You don't know this woman. You only see the side of her as a teacher. But as for knowing her personally, you do not.

 

With such little information, how could you possibly love?!

You seem to belittle the definition.

 

Love is so much deeper than a crush or fantasy. It is to know the soul of the person and to understand them on many levels.

You can admire someone, you can even lust and care for them, but love is far more deeper than that and could only come from knowing who they are from all sides, good and bad.

 

I am sorry but you do seem to toss the word around far too easily and pin it on anyone. Love should only be used in the highest regard and for only someone very special, like once in a lifetime special. Not whomever you fancy and admire.

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Coucou le coeur,

Votre anglais est très bien par rapport mon français... I can relate to your life a bit. I'm also a singer, well, have just started this year anyway (I was in a professional choir group back in high school but that was a long time ago and with a group). I've never taken lessons for my solo work, but have seriously considered it last month, and I think a little bit of instruction can go a long way not just with singing but anything you want to get good at.

 

Anyway, your vocal teacher. First of all, feelings and attraction aside, I think it's wildly inappropriate she was flirting with you if she was your teacher. You went to her for vocal lessons, right? So you two should be working on SINGING. She shouldn't be using your time together to flirt with you, even if you're shy. Unless you are overlooking into things she was teaching you. Maybe she tried to boost your confidence to sing on stage, or paid you a compliment. That doesn't mean she is interested in you.

 

Second, as everyone else here pointed out; you have not dated this woman, you never went on a date, and she has a boyfriend. Elle à un copain!!! You do not "love" her. She has zero interest in you. If she's really flirting with you and has a boyfriend, she's a big, fat tease. Some women are like that, especially in the States but I suppose over in Paris, too. You're barking up the wrong tree, friend. My advice; get a different vocal teacher. You need to work with someone that you're not going to have feelings for and someone that's not gonna flirt and tease you which I think is extremely unprofessional if that was the case.

 

And, if you want to date, go date. Forget about this woman who is taken and find someone that is a good match for you. Vous habitez la ville de amour, n'est-ce pas? Il y a beaucoup les femmes sans petits amis en Paris, oui?!

 

 

Thank you, I spent some time in Québec, not far from Montréal, where I caught a bit of bad English :)

 

hey, great to meet fellow singer! :) Maybe you would understand a bit of the culture I am referring to... Maybe people in Paris a a bit more... amorous than in different parts? This is very...mixed group, we have a lot of women there and we sing duet trio quartets with them.. which is also socially demanding. It is not easy to perform in front of beautiful women, trust me on that ;) .

 

Why leads me to my next line: I am... well, extraordinary shy, when it comes to this... In our first lesson, when she asked me what I want to learn, I virtually looked down (I was already in lobve with her) and started to mumble something... I just could not control myself. She quickly realized if she wants to keep me there, she needs to raise my confidence, otherwise I will give up...

 

The next line is going to sound quite sad but...

 

No women did this for me in 5 years.

 

Virtually. No woman gave me the feeling I am worth of something. My confidence was crushed, I virtually did not believe these girls would waste their time to sing with me... singing is not just about technique. It is also about performance, show. Or at least in our class, we specialize to modern singing. For fun, for performing. she noticed this and gave me the feeling. And succeeded! My confidence is fixed now, or at very least when it comes to singing. I feel so much better today! And for that, I feel huge gratitude. She virtually made my life much better and more quality.

 

I suppose this must sound pathetic... So far I encountered nothing but doubts about my mental strength.

 

"You do not "love" her. She has zero interest in you. If she's really flirting with you and has a boyfriend, she's a big, fat tease."

 

I will just pretend I did not see this...

 

All I can tell I let her know I like that. And as I said, she made my life much better. How could possibly this be a bad thing?

 

...Je pense qu'il était Molière qui a dit que "Vivre sans aimer n’est pas proprement vivre".

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The thing is, you base this so called love on so little,

With such little information, how could you possibly love?!

 

Exactly. Exactly!!!!

 

look, I am sorry to say this, this is gonna be very sad but...

 

For many years, there is no one in my life. No even somebody to talk to, let alone share time together or even fall in love together. (that is... until recently when I started singing classes, where I had this teacher and make a few female friends now...)

 

THAT'S why I need so little in order to love. Either this or barren, flat, emotionless life.

 

I am... I was so jealous to people who can say what you just said... Long ago I just stopped hoping and a few years before... I realized if no one can love me, it still does not mean I cannot love them!!

 

And it made my life so much better.

 

I can imagine how much sad this must sound to people like you... Yes, we exist and we have normal life. All normal except...

 

I do not want to sink into details why I am in this position, just say... Since early morning I was working. After that I spent 3 hours in gym and the only reason why I don't study for (much much better) job I will soon start is simply I am writing these lines and along that I grow as a personality, by reading, receiving feedback and reflecting on it.

 

*************************

 

But I still what you people say here is cynical and... BS. Why it is so sad to love without being loved back? Why is it a bad thing? Why anyone, who sees the best in person and sees him like a masterpiece walking among us must inevitably be foolish and naive? What is definition of nobility? What is inner beauty? What is... character??

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And, if you want to date, go date. Forget about this woman who is taken and find someone that is a good match for you. Vous habitez la ville de amour, n'est-ce pas? Il y a beaucoup les femmes sans petits amis en Paris, oui?!

 

 

...as I said above man... I am sorry... I am just... not good enough... yet.

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ok, thank you all for all the replies, I am happy to have chance to discuss with you! :)

 

Just to make a few things clear:

 

yeah, there "was" some flirt. Just for fun and nothing more.

 

And it is perfectly OK :) .

 

It was most welcomed.

 

It gave me a lot. A confidence that I needed so much :) .

 

No, I do not suffer because she does not "love me back". That was very silly attention who... whole wrong title. Apology for that!!!

 

My only concers is how to approach this situation.

 

And if your advice is "leave her be, boy. Pike off!! SCRAM!!!" please, give me explanation why! :) I see no reason, as long as I will... behave :)

 

Merci beaucoup et Dieu vous bénisse !

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"If she's really flirting with you and has a boyfriend, she's a big, fat tease."

 

I will just pretend I did not see this...

 

All I can tell I let her know I like that. And as I said, she made my life much better. How could possibly this be a bad thing?

 

I disagree as well. Women were not put on earth to satisfy men's sexual agendas. If the lady likes flirting, let her flirt! Flirt back and enjoy. Have some fun in life.

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I disagree as well. Women were not put on earth to satisfy men's sexual agendas. If the lady likes flirting, let her flirt! Flirt back and enjoy. Have some fun in life.

 

exactly. You just exactly described her philosophy, she is not even secretive about it. and I think I am about to adapt it as well. Although in maybe slightly different dimension... Or maybe even the same. Why not? I have just one boss who is just like her... and today she smiled at me. why not to have some fun again? It was so nice the last time! :)

 

hey, aren't you that woman/girl who complimented me before? Girl, this forum needs you more!

 

Thank you for being the person being able to focus to real important things and bringing positive refreshing breeze!

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In our first lesson, when she asked me what I want to learn, I virtually looked down (I was already in lobve with her)

 

You were already in love with her at your very first lesson?

 

Then it wasn't her supposed flirting that made you fall in love...

 

Yes, I was totally amazed when I first saw her... not gonna dive into too much details here, please.

 

Yes, I was very nervous when I started having lessons with her... lessons only strengthened that feeling.

 

I just do not understand why we are still talking about this. It is not important at all.

 

She made my life so better, asked nothing in return. Amazing, right?

 

I like the idea of being inspired by great people. She is one of them. At the top of that, I have feeling for her, which makes my ideals of where and what I want to be even easier to follow. and that is the point of all this thread.

 

why do you all care so much who flirted with who and if and of it is morally right or wrong? Who cares??? I asked completely different question - how to get the best of the situation without spoiling anything.

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I mean, this is so much delicate situation - I leave the place, I lost the opportunity to have some great time around her. I stay, but I will act like a fool, I will repel her. Might happen... Or maybe, or better to say likely, she already forgot me, because she will have by this time several lapins petits like me - and I will feel abandoned and jelly :) That would be probably worst of all :)

 

 

THAT is what bothers me! :)

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maybe I am too insecure here... if she forgets me and probably will, so what? Being sad about it is just pathetic, right? I better think of how to make myself interesting to others, maybe eventually I will be more for her than just silly little rabbit and will see in me someone more... equal...

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