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Started nice, turned mean, stayed mean


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Met a guy at an open mic night about a month go, who was very unambiguously into me at the start and asked me to ask him out. I thought he had a nice face and I was a bit interested but he's not my usual type and I was still shaking interest in someone else. On our first date he concluded I wasn't interested in him and wasn't worth it, I walked away with the opposite impression and wanted to see more.

 

Next time I saw him in the first 5 minutes he'd told me I don't know what punk music and, upon hearing that I'd gotten a bad performance review from work that I alienate people (totally not the right thing to say). He's been telling me all these negative things about me ever since, I'm racist, sexist, narrow minded, brainwashed SJW blah blah blah. And I am BAD at letting people go, so I held in wishfully thinking that he'd just got the wrong end of the stick and if he spent more time with me he'd realise what I'm really like (like, see me the way my friends do at least). Today it came up in passing that I don't shave and he leveled complete vitriol at me "you should have told me sooner" "people who don't shave are just selfish and lazy" "You just don't shave because you're a brain washed SJW" "Not shaving is why guys **** you but won't date you" "you must want a man who's desperate or a bit gay and I am neither"

 

We kept talking, he never reached a point of apologising though, he's all like "either we be friends and you let those things I said go or we don't speak again" And then in the silence some rubbish about am I going to be anywhere he is tonight because he despises drama.

 

I should have let up the night he told me I alienate people. My wishful thinking still keeps me stuck with people who hurt me and this hurt more than any of the disinterested boys before him.

 

No advice needed per se just looking for hugs and pictures of cute things, words of solidarity. My streak of unreciprocated interest, from guys who appeared interested but then flipped on me remains unbroken and is heading for double digits, it is really really hard to not tell me this is just going to be every guy from now on

 

The sadness is high tonight

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What's SJW?

 

It's a "social justice warrior" -- a derogatory term for someone with more liberal leanings who is very passionate about equality, social justice, non-discrimination, etc. My 16 year-old-stepdaughter applies it to people all the time as an insult. *sigh* (Not sure why the OP's date called her that when he also called her "racist" an "sexist" because "SJW's" are very opposed to both of those things and are often faulted/ridiculed for finding racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. in everything.)

 

To the OP: I know you said you're not seeking advice, but I do want to make a couple observations that I hope will be helpful. One, this guy is CLEARLY not a good guy. You have to know this. Whether he's just one of those "red pill" guys that hate women OR he's been studying up on pick-up artist techniques online, he sounds like someone who hates women. You barely knew him when he started becoming verbally abusive to you! If you continue to see him or even speak to him, it will only get much, MUCH worse. Second, and more importantly, the fact that you thought, even after his initial nastiness that IF he just got to know you, things would be OK, is concerning. It suggests that you don't have a healthy view of yourself and what you deserve. Your first clue that he wasn't good for you was that you were unsure about him from the get-go. From my experience with my ex, I know that's a huge intuitive signal to run away! And, it seems that, the meaner he was to you, the more interested you were in trying to make it work -- another huge signal that something's off. He could very well have spotted something in you that let him think he could bulldoze you -- verbally, emotionally, etc. and you would be OK with that. He's NOT going to magically change into a good person who doesn't do that. It's just who he is, and I promise you that staying away from him is the absolute BEST thing you could possibly do for yourself.

 

Why do you think you don't deserve better than this? This is a question you need to ask yourself and think about, very deeply. I had to do it a few years back, and it was painful, but it was the best thing I ever did.

 

Be good to yourself! You don't deserve to have this kind of joker messing with your head. When you know in your heart you are worthy of something better, you will find it, but you have to be prepared to weed out some losers along the way -- to stand strong and move on the minute your gut tells you a guy isn't good for you.

 

Hang in there! When I am feeling sad, I go on Pinterest and search for kitten pictures, or watch make-up tutorial videos or cute animal videos on Facebook (search for "Teddy the Porcupine" or "baby goats in pajamas" and you'll see what I mean!) I also recommend getting fresh air -- getting outside just to walk, run, or just BE -- listening to or reading a good book, or listening to a podcast (I just found one called "Everything is Alive" -- it's "interviews" with inanimate objects -- a can of soda, a lamp post, etc. It's hilarious and clever and really took my mind off some stuff yesterday!)

 

Keep going. The right person is out there. You just haven't found him. This guy was no prize whatsoever. You can do SO much better.

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I agree with Browneyedgirl and I'm glad you see your part in the consequences here- you stuck around wayyy too long with a person who was clearly not treating you appropriately. I am sorry you're hurting. I am reading Jane Eyre right now. I am not sure if I read part/all of it for school but it was my sister's favorite classic novel and probably one of her favorite all time novels. I find her observations on people/what makes them tick/their personalities and how she chooses to interact jaw dropping particularly given when it was published. I highly recommend it as a way to improve yourself -meaning improve your knowledge of history, culture, classic literature -we all can use improvement in that department which is one reason I am reading it - and I think you'll find some valuable insights.

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It's a "social justice warrior" -- a derogatory term for someone with more liberal leanings who is very passionate about equality, social justice, non-discrimination, etc. My 16 year-old-stepdaughter applies it to people all the time as an insult.

 

Thanks, learned something! I must be getting old. :D

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Met a guy at an open mic night about a month go, who was very unambiguously into me at the start and asked me to ask him out. I thought he had a nice face and I was a bit interested but he's not my usual type and I was still shaking interest in someone else. On our first date he concluded I wasn't interested in him and wasn't worth it, I walked away with the opposite impression and wanted to see more.

 

Next time I saw him in the first 5 minutes he'd told me I don't know what punk music and, upon hearing that I'd gotten a bad performance review from work that I alienate people (totally not the right thing to say). He's been telling me all these negative things about me ever since, I'm racist, sexist, narrow minded, brainwashed SJW blah blah blah. And I am BAD at letting people go, so I held in wishfully thinking that he'd just got the wrong end of the stick and if he spent more time with me he'd realise what I'm really like (like, see me the way my friends do at least). Today it came up in passing that I don't shave and he leveled complete vitriol at me "you should have told me sooner" "people who don't shave are just selfish and lazy" "You just don't shave because you're a brain washed SJW" "Not shaving is why guys **** you but won't date you" "you must want a man who's desperate or a bit gay and I am neither"

 

We kept talking, he never reached a point of apologising though, he's all like "either we be friends and you let those things I said go or we don't speak again" And then in the silence some rubbish about am I going to be anywhere he is tonight because he despises drama.

 

I should have let up the night he told me I alienate people. My wishful thinking still keeps me stuck with people who hurt me and this hurt more than any of the disinterested boys before him.

 

No advice needed per se just looking for hugs and pictures of cute things, words of solidarity. My streak of unreciprocated interest, from guys who appeared interested but then flipped on me remains unbroken and is heading for double digits, it is really really hard to not tell me this is just going to be every guy from now on

 

The sadness is high tonight

 

Hmmm, how to respond with only positive words and no advise whilst also not telling you that your future experiences won’t mirror your past ones?

 

Just know that you are valuable and worthy of love, your friends appreciate and care for you and you are fully equipped with all the skills necessary to overcome the hurt from poor treatment by these men. You also have the answers within you to grow from these experiences and choose better dating partners when you feel like it. Have a breather to remind yourself of your worth, take care of yourself, be your priority, indulge.

 

If you’re feeling sad I recommend cute cat videos on YouTube, a hot bath with lovely bubble bath or a scented candle, hot chocolate ot cup of tea. Put some effort into trying a new hair or make up style, not to make yourself look better but because you are worth the time and attention that good grooming takes. Cook your favourite nourishing meal because your body deserves to be treated well. Perform your daily chores with loving attention. Enjoy your tidying because you are worth a comforting environment, your mind is worthy of being at ease. Watch drama like Jerry Springer and take solace that your life isn’t like such an episode. Take care of you. I hope you feel better soon xx

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Met a guy at an open mic night about a month go, who was very unambiguously into me at the start and asked me to ask him out. I thought he had a nice face and I was a bit interested but he's not my usual type and I was still shaking interest in someone else. On our first date he concluded I wasn't interested in him and wasn't worth it, I walked away with the opposite impression and wanted to see more.

 

Next time I saw him in the first 5 minutes he'd told me I don't know what punk music and, upon hearing that I'd gotten a bad performance review from work that I alienate people (totally not the right thing to say). He's been telling me all these negative things about me ever since, I'm racist, sexist, narrow minded, brainwashed SJW blah blah blah. And I am BAD at letting people go, so I held in wishfully thinking that he'd just got the wrong end of the stick and if he spent more time with me he'd realise what I'm really like (like, see me the way my friends do at least). Today it came up in passing that I don't shave and he leveled complete vitriol at me "you should have told me sooner" "people who don't shave are just selfish and lazy" "You just don't shave because you're a brain washed SJW" "Not shaving is why guys **** you but won't date you" "you must want a man who's desperate or a bit gay and I am neither"

 

We kept talking, he never reached a point of apologising though, he's all like "either we be friends and you let those things I said go or we don't speak again" And then in the silence some rubbish about am I going to be anywhere he is tonight because he despises drama.

 

I should have let up the night he told me I alienate people. My wishful thinking still keeps me stuck with people who hurt me and this hurt more than any of the disinterested boys before him.

 

No advice needed per se just looking for hugs and pictures of cute things, words of solidarity. My streak of unreciprocated interest, from guys who appeared interested but then flipped on me remains unbroken and is heading for double digits, it is really really hard to not tell me this is just going to be every guy from now on

 

The sadness is high tonight

 

OMG this guy sounds terrible... criticizing you and tearing you down before he even knows you! You don't have to prove yourself to anyone... and the second you feel like you do, is the second you know that relationship is not the one for you.

 

I know it's hard and lonely being single sometimes, and that unreciprocated interest can be brutal on the self-esteem... but it's always better to be single, free and content than stuck in a relationship with an abusive a$$hole.

 

Chin up!

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Thank you, I needed the chorus (and the cheering things to do suggestions, keen as to listen to Everything is Alive in my next quiet down time. Reciprocal recommendation, the TV show Spaced).

 

It was bad enough trying to let go of people who aren't interested. I've continued to engage with this guy (I find it really hard to ice people out at the best of times and stupid romantic longing only makes that worse). He actually offered something resembling an apology the next day, although still pretty excusey of his own behaviour ("I don't care what other people think and I forget that other people do" some bollocks like that") and later asked me if I'd like to catch him in town. Pushing for friendship. Still articulating his attraction to me (But I suspect only when he's been drinking)....despite the list of negative things he has said about me that I can recite back at him. He hates my opinions but he likes that I have them and thinks my hearts in the right place (patronising), he thinks I'm bad at kissing but still misses kissing me (because there's more to kissing than just the physical you moron). And here I am obviously still attached to the idea of it working (why? Because I long for a partner? Because I got it into my head this guy's on my level in some way, like no one else will be?! Because of physical attraction? Because he seems to have had a hard life and I want to comfort him? Argh, worst impulse!)....IF I'm not stupidly skipping into a literally abusive relationship. Since he kept pushing for interaction I told him he'd need to keep his contructive criticism to himself, I'd do the same, an amnesty of criticising. Sure he could maintain that for a while while he wants to impress me. Doesn't mean he'd be able to keep it up for ever. And my friends would all despair if I went back there (and since some have seen screen shots of actually conversations we've had, there's no margin for me having misrepresented, they're making their own assessments based on how he engages with me).

 

How do I unhook? (No contact, low contact, he's not in conversation with me at the moment and I am fighting the urge to reengage him, go and do Something Else!!!!)

 

What would the one in a million he's not someone who uses abuse to manipulate people scenario look like going forward? (Like, the one in a million scenario where it could be salvaged).

 

And why am I even asking that, I already know, even if he wasn't mean, we have already discovered mutually exclusive values that would make for relationship conflict and he is a person who refuses to compromise, which means he can't relationship period!!! If he rethought his stance on compromise, and was able to describe me the way my friends see me, would there be hope?

 

Trying to get unstuck from someone who is interested but unsuitable is even worse arrrrrgh

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How do I unhook? (No contact, low contact, he's not in conversation with me at the moment and I am fighting the urge to reengage him, go and do Something Else!!!!)

 

What do you want from this guy?? To get beaten into a pulp?? Run and never look back. Seriously, run.

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IF I'm not stupidly skipping into a literally abusive relationship.

 

You skipped into it a month ago. You're in a literally abusive relationship now.

 

Since he kept pushing for interaction I told him he'd need to keep his contructive criticism to himself, I'd do the same, an amnesty of criticising. Sure he could maintain that for a while while he wants to impress me. Doesn't mean he'd be able to keep it up for ever.

 

Why are you open to negotiation about this? Are you rereading what you wrote and thinking about it? It makes no sense.

 

And my friends would all despair if I went back there (and since some have seen screen shots of actually conversations we've had, there's no margin for me having misrepresented, they're making their own assessments based on how he engages with me).

 

What about your own assessment? What proof do you need?

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Recently an ex-student of mine (a breathtakingly beautiful girl who is now a successful actress) put up a FB status update which read: "Is negging a thing? Or is it just being a p***k?"

 

Right on, sister!

 

A useful question for you would be why you're giving any headspace whatsoever to this waste of human flesh, and therein lies the potential for growth. Did you have overly critical parents, where there was no pleasing them, and do you equate being torn to pieces with being "loved"? Did you feel a need to prove yourself, and somehow make this scumbag see the good in you? Whatever, you are giving this guy a completely unwarranted hold over you, but until you address the issues which make you find this kind of behaviour attractive or compelling you'll be going through this kind of scenario again and again.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Despite all wise council, I’ve continued to interact with him. The last time he flipped back into being interested and wanting to get physical though I turned him down, we argue too much.

 

Jibralta your questions are really good.

 

We got into another argument today (off the back of seeing each other last night at an open mic night and him messaging after to say how much he still wants me, to which my response was to send him a photo of my hairy armpits, trying to put him off since the worst argument we ever had was over my not shaving) and my take home is that his style of argueing (ad hominum attacks) makes me feel miserable, but I can hardly be surprised that we keep having the same arguement and how he communicates his thoughts remains the same (a way that is destructive to me). Still I am drawn and he takes up space in my mind but I understand if we continue to engage there will be more arguments like this, that will be what I’m engaging with. Feel glum, but I stuck my own hand in the fire this time.

 

I’m back organising first dates with new people. No one has managed to sway me from this completely bad fit guy though. I’m kicking myself for getting sucked into an argument today, I could have been doing literally anything else with my time and letting it run it’s course did nothing but make us like each other less as people.

 

Nutbrownhair, I think at worst maybe my dad is avoidant, but mostly I’d think my parents were pretty chill, definitely not abusive. Kids at school were awful. I’ve been binge reading baggage reclaim, I think I kept chasing guys who weren’t interested trying to resolve hurt from the last relationship but I’m at a loss as to why I want to be close to this guy. Is it just an extension of this same mistake of chasing people who aren’t interested?! (Where although he says and acts interested he makes it clear through conversation that his perception of me is warped)

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I don't know if you've ever heard of a woman called Hedda Nussbaum, but when I was about 10 years old she was in the news a lot. Her face was plastered across TV and magazines, and what a face it was: asymmetrical, irregular, bumpy. She was the domestic partner of a criminal defense attorney named Joel Steinberg. Joel beat up Hedda for most of their relationship, and eventually beat their 6-year old daughter to death.

 

Looking at Hedda's mugshot in the mid-80s, it just seemed like Hedda was destined for the hand that she was dealt.

 

Then I saw a photo of Hedda before she met John. She was in a bikini, on the beach with friends, smiling.

 

I couldn't find that picture just now, but his is what Hedda looked like at the beginning of their relationship. She was in her mid thirties, beautiful, with a successful career as an editor and author. She was no desperate wretch who needed to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find a mate:

 

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2nkNQPk2JVs/mqdefault.jpg

 

This is what Hedda looked like after 10 years of living with Joel. This can happen to you, too:

 

http://murderpedia.org/male.S/images/steinberg_joel/steinberg_101.jpg

 

I always believed that I could never fall into an abusive relationship the way that Hedda did, because I had too much self confidence to allow something like that to happen to me. But after seeing a documentary about her, I realized that Hedda was a normal woman who was broken down slowly, over time. She minimized and hid the various ways in which Joel abused her until she was completely isolated. The abuse got worse and worse until a horrific thing happened in her life and she was flung out in the open for the world to criticize. But she started out a regular woman, no better or worse than any of us. So keep that in mind as you continue to minimize and hide these awful things.

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I don't know if you've ever heard of a woman called Hedda Nussbaum, but when I was about 10 years old she was in the news a lot. Her face was plastered across TV and magazines, and what a face it was: asymmetrical, irregular, bumpy. She was the domestic partner of a criminal defense attorney named Joel Steinberg. Joel beat up Hedda for most of their relationship, and eventually beat their 6-year old daughter to death.

 

Looking at Hedda's mugshot in the mid-80s, it just seemed like Hedda was destined for the hand that she was dealt.

 

Then I saw a photo of Hedda before she met John. She was in a bikini, on the beach with friends, smiling.

 

I couldn't find that picture just now, but his is what Hedda looked like at the beginning of their relationship. She was in her mid thirties, beautiful, with a successful career as an editor and author. She was no desperate wretch who needed to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find a mate:

 

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2nkNQPk2JVs/mqdefault.jpg

 

This is what Hedda looked like after 10 years of living with Joel. This can happen to you, too:

 

http://murderpedia.org/male.S/images/steinberg_joel/steinberg_101.jpg

 

I always believed that I could never fall into an abusive relationship the way that Hedda did, because I had too much self confidence to allow something like that to happen to me. But after seeing a documentary about her, I realized that Hedda was a normal woman who was broken down slowly, over time. She minimized and hid the various ways in which Joel abused her until she was completely isolated. The abuse got worse and worse until a horrific thing happened in her life and she was flung out in the open for the world to criticize. But she started out a regular woman, no better or worse than any of us. So keep that in mind as you continue to minimize and hide these awful things.

 

Great analogy Jibralta -I remember that case and that tragedy so well.

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I'm speechless...

 

I've read many sad stories on here, yet this one takes the cake.

 

It was a famous and famously tragic news story back then and I believe promoted changes in the system of identifying child abuse. People blamed the Mom until they found out what she endured in that house. The little girl went to a well known and good school too. So so sad.

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Ohhh that’s heart breaking :-(

 

I woke up to an apology too. Cycleeeeee!!!!!

 

But also it looks like he might be fast fading me.i suppose he knows how we interact makes me miserable, no one wants that really right? And it’s easier to remove himself than change how he communicates?! Pffft (but also slightly honourable....unless it’s just more fishing for validation)

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Annnnd, I’m done. We weren’t even argueing yesterday but he brings up me being too sensitive, and I quip back that he’s overly rude (with a smiley emoticon), and his reply is ‘no, there’s definitely something wrong with you mentally, like bi polar but more extreme’.

 

I point out that he constantly devalues me and his reply was ‘yeah, I do devalue people who lack self awareness’ (I bet That goal post moves). I told him he can be ‘right’ and alone to which He goes on about how he’s honest and honest people have closer and more meaningful connections (yeah right, because this one feels real close) and therefore he is not alone. And maybe he is not but I’m doubtful and I hope that line eats at him when he’s feeling lonely.

 

What a piece of work!!!!

 

(Also he still has a flash drive of mine which is a source of anxiety but I guess I need to let that go, don’t think I’m getting it back and trying to get it back last time prolonged this connection by a few weeks, could have been further down the path to forgetting if I’d let it go the first time. Still, argh)

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