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Something about family dynamics - I feel guilty for existing


Chai

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Pretty much every time I get home from going out for a meal with both my parents, on their rare trips to my city, I feel this great sinking feeling inside.

 

I feel like I have said too much. I feel guilty for existing. I feel bad for saying anything at all about myself.

 

This is a theme. This guilt creeps in every time we go out together.

 

I know that I need to talk to my psychologist about this, but I want to grow as a person. I want to start to work on this now. And it only just happened now.

 

Going out with my parents makes me hate on myself. This is not what I want for any of us!

 

Does anyone else have this experience? What helped you to grow out of it?

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I am not homesick, and perhaps they do make subtle innuendos. The dynamic is that my mother and I are very close, and talk most days at length. She always draws me out. My Dad on the other hand - we are not close at all. We didn't talk to each other once for the past four months or so.

 

It is both of them being there together that creates this anxiety in me. I feel like I should just delete myself.

 

I am not sure of the expectations or judgments, but that feels like their business. It has nothing to do with me.

 

It is probably the fact that I don't believe, nor have I ever believed that my Dad considers me in any way interesting or valid.

 

I feel so sick in the stomach tonight. Thanks for your thoughts!

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Maybe it is as simple as the fact that I want some boundaries between me and my Dad because he has never been very emotionally available, but because my Mum is there too, I am all chatty and offering information about myself and my inner world. This feels really out of balance, because I actually don't want my Dad to have access to this more intimate knowledge of myself, and so I feel so sick afterwards.

 

Maybe that is it. It is like going to dinner with a good friend and a professional acquaintance and pitching my behaviour for the good friend perhaps, when I really need to protect my heart and pitch my behaviour at the more distant acquaintance, keep a sense of distance.

 

And I can't help myself because my Mum always draws me out, and there is some expectation that I should be able to be myself around my parents, but to be honest, the relationship is not equal at all. So I think that I need to protect myself and put up some boundaries.

 

Do you think that might be it?

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Accept them for who they are. Cold or broken or whatever. Let go of idealized views of families and father-daughter hallmark relationships. They are who they are, warts and all. They won't change. Perfect and idealized relationships with perfect parents doesn't exist in reality. Just breathe, let go and accept that. You are not a child living at home. You have your own life, place, independence, friends, profession, etc. Take comfort in that and don't expect so much from them.

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Hi Holly,

 

No I haven't spoken to my mother about this and maybe I should!

 

If you get a chance, could you let me know what you think that might achieve?

 

I can see that it might make her aware of it at least.

 

Thanks!

Chai :-)

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I think it may give you a better perspective about your dad - I too, had a challenging father and it was helpful when I expressed these feelings to my mother.

 

You two are close, and I think it could help in developing a closer relationship to your dad. You also won't feel so alone in your feelings. Nothing to lose.

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Thanks Wiseman,

 

I definitely agree with your idea of accepting them for who they are. I think this is hugely important and I have been working towards that.

 

I also think you make a good point about accepting that there are no perfect relationships, or perfect families.

 

I guess I am just trying to work out what it is that is causing this gut wrenching guilt and self consciousness - (dare I say pain and intense guilt) whenever I get home from spending time with them together. I am trying to work out what my need is in this case and how to give myself what I need so that I don't come home and regret every dinner I have with them, which is actually a special occasion and not that common.

 

I actually want to appreciate the time I do have with them.

 

Thanks!

Chai :-)

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Hi Chai, I agree with Holly in that it may be helpful to discuss this with your mom. She may be able to put things into perspective for you, and may also advise that she may think that you're being too hard on yourself and potentially over-thinking things. Are you an over-thinker? Too hard on yourself?

 

I'm close with both of my parents, but find it easier talking to my mom about various things going on in my life because I know she'll be able to relate to me as a fellow female.

 

Also, because I'm the youngest in my family and the only girl, there are certain things that I really don't want to discuss with my dad, mainly because it's just extremely uncomfortable and he thinks of me as his "little girl". I've tried discussing various topics with my dad (i.e. - dating, etc...to get feedback. Plus, I'm at an age where topics like this are pretty normal, I wouldn't mind his fatherly advice), but there's a certain level of discomfort that comes with discussing these things with him. I then feel guilty because I'm wondering what he's thinking (although, I'm not sure why. He's a smart man and surely doesn't expect me to live like a nun. Lol). It's a strange feeling. Don't quite know how to explain it. This feeling of guilt is exacerbated when my dad is super quiet or when he makes certain facial expressions (which I realize now don't mean anything critical towards me).

 

At the end of the day, I realize that my feelings of guilt are a result of me over-thinking things (I'm an over-thinker) and being too hard on myself. I've always valued my parents opinions greatly, but I'm also learning that I'm living my best life, doing the best that I can, and there's no reason for me to feel guilty. Maybe my parents don't agree with all of the decisions that I've made, but I'm learning not to care. It's my life, not theirs.

 

And maybe once you speak with your mom she'll be able to put into words what your dad may not be able to tell you himself, or doesn't realize he should be telling you (i.e. - that he's proud of you, loves you, etc.). Maybe it just comes down to hearing from both of your parents that they're proud of you and they support you in your decisions?

 

Either way, I hope your mom can shine some light on this.

 

Good luck and keep us posted! I'd like to hear how things pan out.

 

p.s. And try not to be so hard on yourself, if that's what you're doing! :)

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I'd give your Mom a heads' up that you feel self conscious when your father visits with her, so she shouldn't take it personally if you opt to pretend that you're having a business lunch. This will keep your conversations polite and cheerful but minus the level of intimacy that your Mom draws out of you in his presence.

 

If Mom forgets and oversteps, you can just smile and say, "Mom, how about if we consider that girl stuff and talk about it tomorrow? Dad, what would you like to talk about?" ...or whatever change of subject you'll have readily on hand to dismiss Mom's question.

 

As an adult, you're entitled to use discretion in what you share with parents. Treat overstepping gently, but don't play along. You'll get better at sidestepping with practice, but meanwhile, don't fault yourself for falling into Mom's conditioning. Letting her know upfront that you trust her to consider the private stuff you share with her to be kept confidential.

 

Allow for occasional fails without beating yourself up over them. You get to decide whether to consider this a transitional time of owning your own maturity, or whether you'll ruminate yourself into a deeper hole to climb out of. I vote for self kindness, and you will discover that this practice will translate into an easy kindness and patience with others as a wonderful side effect.

 

Head high.

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Hi Chai, I agree with Holly in that it may be helpful to discuss this with your mom. She may be able to put things into perspective for you, and may also advise that she may think that you're being too hard on yourself and potentially over-thinking things. Are you an over-thinker? Too hard on yourself?

 

I'm close with both of my parents, but find it easier talking to my mom about various things going on in my life because I know she'll be able to relate to me as a fellow female.

 

Also, because I'm the youngest in my family and the only girl, there are certain things that I really don't want to discuss with my dad, mainly because it's just extremely uncomfortable and he thinks of me as his "little girl". I've tried discussing various topics with my dad (i.e. - dating, etc...to get feedback. Plus, I'm at an age where topics like this are pretty normal, I wouldn't mind his fatherly advice), but there's a certain level of discomfort that comes with discussing these things with him. I then feel guilty because I'm wondering what he's thinking (although, I'm not sure why. He's a smart man and surely doesn't expect me to live like a nun. Lol). It's a strange feeling. Don't quite know how to explain it. This feeling of guilt is exacerbated when my dad is super quiet or when he makes certain facial expressions (which I realize now don't mean anything critical towards me).

 

At the end of the day, I realize that my feelings of guilt are a result of me over-thinking things (I'm an over-thinker) and being too hard on myself. I've always valued my parents opinions greatly, but I'm also learning that I'm living my best life, doing the best that I can, and there's no reason for me to feel guilty. Maybe my parents don't agree with all of the decisions that I've made, but I'm learning not to care. It's my life, not theirs.

 

And maybe once you speak with your mom she'll be able to put into words what your dad may not be able to tell you himself, or doesn't realize he should be telling you (i.e. - that he's proud of you, loves you, etc.). Maybe it just comes down to hearing from both of your parents that they're proud of you and they support you in your decisions?

 

Either way, I hope your mom can shine some light on this.

 

Good luck and keep us posted! I'd like to hear how things pan out.

 

p.s. And try not to be so hard on yourself, if that's what you're doing! :)

 

Hey Milly!!

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts. I may be an over-thinker! But I haven't noticed it as such, and no one has mentioned it as yet. But why would they? Haha - they are not in my head. I don't usually dwell on things too much, but some things happen repeatedly, and each time I try to work it out a little more. . . I would probably say that I am not overly hard on myself either. Probably average.

Sometimes my mind wanders to things that I have done in my past that I am ashamed of, or regret and I feel an intense kick in the guts when I think of those times. I try to 'breathe through it' since it seems to be a physical sensation more than anything. I don't often feel 'guilty' either, but this dynamic with my parents very often leaves me feeling that way!

 

I completely understand that you feel there are some things you would rather not discuss with your Dad, even though you are close. I think that is as it should be, no? And maybe we all have different safe topics with different people - mother, father, brother, sister, friend, etc. My Dad can be quiet too, so I know that feeling where you get the sense that he is thinking badly of you, but hats off to you for discussing this with him.

 

I actually think that like you, I might need to actually open up to my Dad and tell him how these conversations affect me. Not in a judgmental way, but just to give him a bit of a heads up, that there is something wrong with this picture for me. Someone gave me a link to a book 'Between Fathers and Daughters' by Linda Nielsen which I am keen to read asap, and maybe that will help me to navigate some of these conversations! The same person also said to me: he is not a mind reader! Which I think was a good point!

 

It makes me really happy that you are growing and learning and deciding that this is your life and not theirs. That is such a great lesson to learn, to stand on your own two feet as it were.

 

I will talk to my Mum about it. I think that is a good idea, thank you. She might give me some insight, but it really does need to come from him (or between us both). I know that my Mum would love to see us have a good relationship, but I do think I need to work out a way forward for my relationship with my Dad.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts. They are much appreciated! I will definitely keep you posted on my progress! Especially after I finish the book and talk to my Dad and Mum!

 

Have a great week!

 

Cheers,

Chai :-)

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I'd give your Mom a heads' up that you feel self conscious when your father visits with her, so she shouldn't take it personally if you opt to pretend that you're having a business lunch. This will keep your conversations polite and cheerful but minus the level of intimacy that your Mom draws out of you in his presence.

 

If Mom forgets and oversteps, you can just smile and say, "Mom, how about if we consider that girl stuff and talk about it tomorrow? Dad, what would you like to talk about?" ...or whatever change of subject you'll have readily on hand to dismiss Mom's question.

 

As an adult, you're entitled to use discretion in what you share with parents. Treat overstepping gently, but don't play along. You'll get better at sidestepping with practice, but meanwhile, don't fault yourself for falling into Mom's conditioning. Letting her know upfront that you trust her to consider the private stuff you share with her to be kept confidential.

 

Allow for occasional fails without beating yourself up over them. You get to decide whether to consider this a transitional time of owning your own maturity, or whether you'll ruminate yourself into a deeper hole to climb out of. I vote for self kindness, and you will discover that this practice will translate into an easy kindness and patience with others as a wonderful side effect.

 

Head high.

 

Wow catfeeder! You really have a way with words. I get the sense that you dance gracefully and lightly on the stage of life, and I really appreciate your input. Thank you!

 

Although you advice is a little different to other people's above, I still think that it is extremely helpful, and the reason why I think this is because it would effectively be putting some boundaries in place to protect my heart from someone (my Dad), who is less emotionally available than my Mum is. It may not be true that he does not love me, or consider my opinions important, but that is what my mind and heart is telling me, and to be a little less 'open and available' might help to keep me emotionally safe in this situation.

 

I am a bit confused at the moment, because on one hand, I feel like I should do the work to try and improve our relationship and to understand why he acts the way he does, and on the other hand, I need to treat him like a professional acquaintance, or someone who I am not close to, in order to manage the emotional unavailability and the discrepancy between my closeness with my Mum and my distance from my Dad.

 

It is funny because for my Mum that must be a weird situation too. She is with probably the two closest people to her, and so she must have a completely different take on the dynamic!

 

I will talk to her though. I think I will explain how it makes me feel and suggest that it would be helpful for me to learn to maintain some form of distance when we are with other people (particularly my Dad). Obviously it is fine when we are just chatting together, but I can definitely be a bit more loose lipped when she is around. When we are around other people, like work colleagues or mutual friends, I am probably a little more guarded, but maybe when it is just her, my Dad and me, I subconsciously feel like I should be able to open up. And then crash later. Not sure, but it sure is interesting to me.

 

I loved the way that you said: 'I vote for self kindness, and you will discover that this practice will translate into an easy kindness and patience with others as a wonderful side effect.' That really is a beautiful idea, and I love it!

 

Thanks again for your thoughts. I feel like you are a very wise person :-)

Chai

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  • 3 weeks later...

On this topic, I am noticing more and more lately, that even without my Dad in the dynamic, say at a family dinner, I often come away from phone calls with my mother lately feeling like I have said too much.

Or for feeling guilty for telling her anything of myself. This seems to be getting worse as I start to talk more to my Dad.

 

It is this kind of vulnerability, but not in a nice way, and I would say that it feels a bit toxic.

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I feel guilty for existing, and I don't know what to do about this, and I don't know how to process it.

 

Try working backwards: Given that we are all entitled to exist and even legally obligated to continue existing now that we are born into these bodies, what, exactly, about existing makes you feel guilty?

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Thanks Cat :-)

As always with your excellent advice, it can take me a little while to digest it and ponder it.

 

In this case, all I can put my finger on at the moment is that I feel guilty for talking, mostly. This has been a thread in my life. Some perceived idea that everyone just wants me to shut up!!

 

Still not sure what to do about that, but thanks for all your help! :-)

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...all I can put my finger on at the moment is that I feel guilty for talking, mostly. This has been a thread in my life. Some perceived idea that everyone just wants me to shut up!!

 

Start by reducing exaggerations, such as 'everyone'. Identify specifics.: 'who' wants you to shut up?

 

Consider crediting that person with the capacity to ask you to be quiet if that were truly what he or she wanted.

 

Consider the self critical voice you run in your own head as a saboteur who likes to keep you feeling lousy. Then decide how much control you want to own over that voice, and practice catching it and replacing it with a kind and encouraging and inspiring voice, instead.

 

Notice how self respect translates into an open door to perceiving respect from others. AND, notice how it's cyclical: respect for others generates the degree of equality that brings about self respect.

 

Magical thinking believes that 'I' am the only one who can know or express a truth. This discredits the ability of others to tell you what THEY are thinking, and so it limits your ability to experience truths outside the limits of your own head. And when your own head believes that it's practical rather than toxic to inject poisons into your rehashing of experiences, where is the value in that?

 

(((HUG))),

Cat

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Start by reducing exaggerations, such as 'everyone'. Identify specifics.: 'who' wants you to shut up?

 

Consider crediting that person with the capacity to ask you to be quiet if that were truly what he or she wanted.

 

Consider the self critical voice you run in your own head as a saboteur who likes to keep you feeling lousy. Then decide how much control you want to own over that voice, and practice catching it and replacing it with a kind and encouraging and inspiring voice, instead.

 

Notice how self respect translates into an open door to perceiving respect from others. AND, notice how it's cyclical: respect for others generates the degree of equality that brings about self respect.

 

Magical thinking believes that 'I' am the only one who can know or express a truth. This discredits the ability of others to tell you what THEY are thinking, and so it limits your ability to experience truths outside the limits of your own head. And when your own head believes that it's practical rather than toxic to inject poisons into your rehashing of experiences, where is the value in that?

 

(((HUG))),

Cat

 

Hey @catfeeder!

That is so incredibly interesting :-) I am particularly inspired by your idea that if someone wanted me to 'shut up' they are more than able to say that to me. Lol, it is so funny, but you are right.

 

That self critical voice is a problem for many of us, I know. And there hopefully is a trick with catching it and replacing it with something a little more encouraging.

 

You have mentioned this cyclical self respect cycle before, and I always love it when you talk about that. It sounds so healthy and empowering for EVERYONE.

 

I need to digest your last paragraph a bit more, but thanks again so much for your thoughts! They are so incredibly HELPFUL. You are a true gem.

 

I might go and read this reply email from my Dad now! (If I dare, hehe) :-)

We chatted on the phone today too. He said he was going to ring me back :-)

 

Cheers!

Chai xx

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Hey @catfeeder!

That is so incredibly interesting :-) I am particularly inspired by your idea that if someone wanted me to 'shut up' they are more than able to say that to me. Lol, it is so funny, but you are right.

 

That self critical voice is a problem for many of us, I know. And there hopefully is a trick with catching it and replacing it with something a little more encouraging.

 

You have mentioned this cyclical self respect cycle before, and I always love it when you talk about that. It sounds so healthy and empowering for EVERYONE.

 

I need to digest your last paragraph a bit more, but thanks again so much for your thoughts! They are so incredibly HELPFUL. You are a true gem.

 

I might go and read this reply email from my Dad now! (If I dare, hehe) :-)

We chatted on the phone today too. He said he was going to ring me back :-)

 

Cheers!

Chai xx

 

Great! EnjOy your Dad, and notice that he's responding to the encouragement he senses from you. He may have felt left out of your tight relationship with Mom, and now he's starting to feel recognized rather than avoided.

 

Yes, self love and respect are a cycle that generates outward and nourishes those we love with respect also. It's a learning process that becomes stronger and stronger, provided that we cultivate it rather than squelch it with our own fears.

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Firstly, I AM SO ANGRY with myself, because I may have blown my cover, maybe, and I ing . . . (except I don't think I did!!) Woot :-)

 

So happy. It can be so important to have spaces away from particular people sometimes.

 

In any case, I just feel sick, because I talked to my brother.

 

All I can think about right NOW is all the things that I said wrong to him, and all the ways that he likely hates me.

 

It is tricky, but I probably need to be compassionate to myself today, and desist from the judgment. Maybe, my stomach just is in knots because I am a terrible person and I shouldn't even EXIST, let alone speak.

 

Where is this coming from? I want to know!

 

I am HATING on myself for everything that I did or (worse) DIDN'T say. It sucks, but I am trying to learn what Cat said about self respect breeding respect for others, and the cyclical nature of that. Do you know what? I am actually going to reach out now.

 

(Maybe)

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To be honest, I am wondering if MAYBE Dibble's feelings are not my responsibility. I am not sure that I am PERSONALLY responsible for the fact that he thinks I am some 'golden child'. It is probably true, and he probably has a point. It is just that I don't feel like I did that intentionally, it is not like I ASKED for Dibble to be downgraded. If that is how he feels. It is not my responsibility. Maybe my Mum wants to shift blame by telling me that Dibble said these things to her, but all THAT does is make me feel terrible too!ß

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