Thoughts on race and dating?

I'm seeing a therapist right now. I certainly need it. I plan on discussing these matters of race and dating at some point. I've RARELY had the conversation with others because most of my friends are white and I don't believe they're comfortable with the dialog of "race and dating".

When I was last dating, in my 20s, I was treated a certain way and rejected frequently. I certainly got used to it and didn't see anything much I could do about it. However I was around mostly white women during those years and I am not white. I was treated in a way I found to be "normal" for me. Women treated me with disinterest. Casual politeness. Aloofness. Distance. I took this all to mean they did not find me to be interesting as a potential partner nor as a friend. Later on in my early 20s, when I was in college, I found myself around more black women. Previously I was not around black women nor did I grow up around any. The black women treated me with trust. Automatic trust. They treated me with so much openness that I almost mistook it for flirting BUT it wasn't flirting. I realized it was something different.

It was as though they were neighborly. As though there was no barrier between myself and them. It didn't seem to be that they may have found me very attractive (I don't know). It didn't seem to be that we even had much in common but there was a warmth there I was not used to. I didn't jump to the conclusion that race was a factor at this point. Some months or a year later during my time as a Freshman/Sophomore in college I pursued a white woman and she was (as usual) standoffish with me. So I eventually backed off and left her alone. She would visit my dorm however with the intent of speaking to my roommate--a gentleman who looks white. Anyway, she casually (and unprompted!) stated that her father would never approve of her dating a black guy and that she wouldn't want to create that conflict with him. I still don't recall how that topic came up.

At this point, I'm probably 19 or 20 years old and I realize that race was a big factor to dating. I realized that it's possible I had met many other white girls who harbored the same insecurities or doubts about dating outside their race. Whether it was due to their own feelings or their family. It hit me like a brick and that's when I started comparing how all the white women I met in college treated me so differently than the black women. Everyone was polite to me but one group always seemed to harbor significant caution while the other group did not.

I was using OkCupid at the time--2001. I used it regularly as I was shy, awkward, and really wanted to go on dates. I managed maybe one date through OkCupid. Egh. Anyway, OkCupid released stats on their service some years later revealing how people deal with race - https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060

The results are clear. Black women are the most ignored of all categories. Asian men are also often ignored. Then you have black men who are very close. The article discusses who does and does not receive messages in OkCupid. I realize that this likely impacted so much of my dating life at that time. It's strange to realize that.

I don't have much to say about that nowadays. I luckily live in a new city where race is _less_ of a factor. However it's problematic to me that many people don't look in the mirror and ask themselves where they fall on this playing field. Do you feel suspicion or discomfort with someone outside your race is expressing interest in you? Do you think you treat different races differently when it comes to dating? Do you think it does or does not matter?

It's not about one race vs. another, to me.

It's that we all have a "love map", a chemistry in our brain composed of a lifetime of experiences and emotions that incite us to be attracted to someone. The "love map" has been very well studied, and there are thousands of site links out there, but basically, a lot of it is still a mystery.

It's not that one race is preferred, but rather that that race was what the dater grew up with, and that person's emotions, emotional history, and lifetime of memories is tied to. Scientists are still unsure as to how much of it even occurs between the ages of 0-6 months of age, as that is when bonding/oxytocin/neural pathways are building. They are now saying that that age, 0-6 months, is possibly the single most crucial bonding time. So, if a caucasian baby was held by a caucasian mother and father, and caucasian relatives, and caucasian nurses and doctors, it is simply more likely to "bond" to caucasians. And so on, with other races/ethnicities.

With respect to hair color, facial structure, etc., that is also largely determined as a child. I have often dated men who look very much like my dad, and my sister married one who looks just like my dad. My last BF looks a lot like my dad too. All these guys have such strikingly similar features to our dad, it's hard to ignore: very dark hair, not very tall, big noses, and even though these are not necessarily "attractive" features, these men have an innate cuteness that our dad has. I think it's no coincidence.

Add to this, the media: so many of our early supermodels were these stunning white women. Then along came women like Halle Barry, Iman, Naomi Campbell, and other African American movie stars who are stunning, and it's become more.....smoothed out. Most white men I know would date any of these women in a heartbeat. And most white women I know would date a Denzel or a Sterling K. Brown in a heartbeat (I know I would).

About 25 years ago, when I was just out of college, I fell into "major crush" with an African American guy. He was actually too cute for me, and he dated goooorgeous women. In a strange coincidence of profession, both my father and later my sister got to know him (professionally). We all got to know Mr. D., and my dad still jokes with my sister and I at what crushes we had on him. I'd have dated him in a heartbeat, had he ever asked, and my dad already loved him.

I'm attracted to men who are just about the complete opposite in appearance of the men I grew up around.

However, they are very similar to the men my aunts were married to. Wonderful men. I'm sure that's where my preference comes from.

@boltnrun

Do you have any opinion on the topic of race and dating?

Asian men are also often ignored. Then you have black men who are very close.

I find both Asian and black people super attractive. My husband is Filipino and I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world (I am non-Asian).

Not everyone is open to interracial dating. Some really prefer sticking to their own cultural comfort and there is nothing wrong with that (just as long as they aren't bashing others for their choices). People are allowed to have their preferences.

I luckily live in a new city where race is _less_ of a factor.

The most discrimination my husband and I faced when together was in a town with a high diverse population. Right in Washington, D.C. We would get stares, off-handed comments, and one time we were harassed in a Chinese restaurant by three black girls (cops were called). We live in a rural area and never encountered rudeness or any form of discrimination.

It's not about one race vs. another, to me.

 

It's that we all have a "love map", a chemistry in our brain composed of a lifetime of experiences and emotions that incite us to be attracted to someone. The "love map" has been very well studied, and there are thousands of site links out there, but basically, a lot of it is still a mystery.

 

It's not that one race is preferred, but rather that that race was what the dater grew up with, and that person's emotions, emotional history, and lifetime of memories is tied to. Scientists are still unsure as to how much of it even occurs between the ages of 0-6 months of age, as that is when bonding/oxytocin/neural pathways are building. They are now saying that that age, 0-6 months, is possibly the single most crucial bonding time. So, if a caucasian baby was held by a caucasian mother and father, and caucasian relatives, and caucasian nurses and doctors, it is simply more likely to "bond" to caucasians. And so on, with other races/ethnicities.

 

With respect to hair color, facial structure, etc., that is also largely determined as a child. I have often dated men who look very much like my dad, and my sister married one who looks just like my dad. My last BF looks a lot like my dad too. All these guys have such strikingly similar features to our dad, it's hard to ignore: very dark hair, not very tall, big noses, and even though these are not necessarily "attractive" features, these men have an innate cuteness that our dad has. I think it's no coincidence.

 

Add to this, the media: so many of our early supermodels were these stunning white women. Then along came women like Halle Barry, Iman, Naomi Campbell, and other African American movie stars who are stunning, and it's become more.....smoothed out. Most white men I know would date any of these women in a heartbeat. And most white women I know would date a Denzel or a Sterling K. Brown in a heartbeat (I know I would).

 

About 25 years ago, when I was just out of college, I fell into "major crush" with an African American guy. He was actually too cute for me, and he dated goooorgeous women. In a strange coincidence of profession, both my father and later my sister got to know him (professionally). We all got to know Mr. D., and my dad still jokes with my sister and I at what crushes we had on him. I'd have dated him in a heartbeat, had he ever asked, and my dad already loved him.

Two things. I don't think I was framing it as one race vs. another.

Secondly, thanks for sharing your opinion.

You are stating things that may be obvious to some. People do find appealing that which they are familiar with, often. However in one of my particular anecdotes, the woman didn't state whether or not she was attracted to black men. She just stated her father would not approve and she doesn't want to let her father down. So that's a matter of social pressure.

My husband used to get asked "Whose baby is that?" when he'd carry our son around. My son has my coloring and facial features, which are pretty much opposite of my husband's. Someone even asked him "Are you sure that's YOUR baby?" Rude.

Two things. I don't think I was framing it as one race vs. another.

Secondly, thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

You are stating things that may be obvious to some. People do find appealing that which they are familiar with, often. However in one of my particular anecdotes, the woman didn't state whether or not she was attracted to black men. She just stated her father would not approve and she doesn't want to let her father down. So that's a matter of social pressure.

What does that have to do with anything though? Whats your question? It seems like youre just trolling right now.

Some really prefer sticking to their own cultural comfort and there is nothing wrong with that

This is normally the response to the topic of race and dating. Do you really think there is not one thing wrong or at least problematic with sticking to a cultural comfort zone?

What does that have to do with anything though? Whats your question? It seems like youre just trolling right now.

The person responding was discussing why people are attracted to others. I was stating that race + dating isn't always about attraction that it can also be put negative social pressures.

My husband used to get asked "Whose baby is that?" when he'd carry our son around. My son has my coloring and facial features, which are pretty much opposite of my husband's. Someone even asked him "Are you sure that's YOUR baby?" Rude.

Yeah my family got that a lot when I was a child.

I am white but have always been attracted to non white men. I lived in the caribbean for a few years where it was 98% black people and I experienced what you explained in your OP. Most (not all but most) of the black men stayed away from me, they wanted black women. They most definitely wanted to stay within their race. I don't know if they were attracted to me or not but ...it seemed like dating me was not in their line of thought at all.

Now I have a mixed race son and daughter and we live in a predominantly 'white' country. I've read the stats that you've read and I do sometimes worry about my daughters future experience with white guys. She was born and raised by me in this country so there won't be any cultural difference. I don't know if that will make a difference but I'm guessing it will.

The person responding was discussing why people are attracted to others. I was stating that race + dating isn't always about attraction that it can also be put negative social pressures.

But thats her family, its 2018, its certainly not the norm. I hope you realize that.

This "i want to date my own ethnicity" thing should not be what you are unpacking in therapy -- there are far more pertinent issues such as codependency. You can't solve the world. And its logical and natural someone would seek out for a marriage partner someone similar to themselves, whether that be religion, ethnicity, growing up on the same side of town, whatever it might be. your shyness or lack of talking or approaching women cold are things that won't get you anywhere, and you can blame "white women" or whoever you want to blame. You may want to get your relationship farther back in the rearview mirror before you are quick to decide "which groups don't like you". Its kind of irrelvant right now.

But thats her family, its 2018, its certainly not the norm. I hope you realize that.

I'm talking about something that happened in 2002. I don't consider that the dark ages. I'm also not trying to comment on whether it's common or not. Just opening up the discussion. I also used the phrase "social pressure". I'm not sure what is not clear about that being a factor. I'm citing an example of a woman who felt social pressure relating to her father's potential racism and how it impacted her. I know without a doubt these social pressures still exist whether they're commonplace or not. Here's an NPR story from this year, 2018 - https://www.npr.org/2018/01/09/575352051/least-desirable-how-racial-discrimination-plays-out-in-online-dating

I'm white, and I've always found non-white men (especially Asians) physically attractive. However, there's more to attraction than looks - and shared interests, shared values an' all that are just as important if not more so - regardless of ethnicity. Incidentally, I grew up in an area which was very culturally diverse and took this to be the norm.

I guess it depends what sort of company you keep, and where you're based, but when I lived in London and was really into the dance/clubbing scene I knew many, many couples who were of different ethnic origins. It really was a non-issue.

I'm talking about something that happened in 2002. I don't consider that the dark ages. I'm also not trying to comment on whether it common or not. Just opening up the discussion. I also used the phrase "social pressure". I'm not sure what is not clear about that being a factor. I'm citing an example of a woman who felt social pressure relating to her father's potential racism and how it impacted her. I know without a doubt these social pressures still exist whether they're commonplace or not. Here's an NPR story from this year, 2018 - https://www.npr.org/2018/01/09/575352051/least-desirable-how-racial-discrimination-plays-out-in-online-dating

Im an African American woman oscuro, I don't have any issue dating within and outside of my race. I have been on 5 online dates, of those I have ended up dating 2, currently still dating 1, 2 I turned down 2 and 1 turned me down. Multiple races. So where are these statistics? Im batting 4 out of 5.

You are holding onto these words as a barrier out of fear. Of course bias exists, of course leagues exist, we like what we like, but I am telling you right now as one of the unfortunate 'undesirable' groups in your research. I do not have issues finding men inside and outside my race. Its you, its not society. Life is full of barriers, its up to you to knock those barriers down or let those barriers knock you down.

I'm white, and I've always found non-white men (especially Asians) physically attractive. However, there's more to attraction than looks - and shared interests, shared values an' all that are just as important if not more so - regardless of ethnicity. Incidentally, I grew up in an area which was very culturally diverse and took this to be the norm.

 

I guess it depends what sort of company you keep, and where you're based, but when I lived in London and was really into the dance/clubbing scene I knew many, many couples who were of different ethnic origins. It really was a non-issue.

That's cool. I understand.

I think in a way I was hoping more people who have a racial preference would chime in to discuss or reveal why they do. It happens. It's possible some people don't want to volunteer that information. The few times I've encountered that conversation the most I get out of the other person is, "I don't know. It's just what I like" which is not a terribly interesting answer.

Go away. You can not come here and tell me what I need to discuss with my therapist. I am going to block you.

if you want to spend $40-100 discussing the general state of race and dating, then by all means go ahead. But if you are concerned personally with dating again...there are other things to unpack

Im an African American woman oscuro, I don't have any issue dating within and outside of my race. I have been on 5 online dates, of those I have ended up dating 2, currently still dating 1, 2 I turned down 2 and 1 turned me down. Multiple races. So where are these statistics? Im batting 4 out of 5.

 

You are holding onto these words as a barrier out of fear. Of course bias exists, of course leagues exist, we like what we like, but I am telling you right now as one of the unfortunate 'undesirable' groups in your research. I do not have issues finding men inside and outside my race. Its you, its not society. Life is full of barriers, its up to you to knock those barriers down or let those barriers knock you down.

The stats are here: https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060

Whatever problems I have, have nothing to do with the dialog I'm trying to open up. So your opinions on me and what you judge is my problem with dating are irrelevant right now. I started this topic to see what people thought about it. People are sharing some opinions.

The stats are here: https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060

 

Whatever problems I have, have nothing to do with the dialog I'm trying to open up. So your opinions on me and what you judge is my problem with dating are irrelevant right now. I started this topic to see what people thought about it. People are sharing some opinions.

Dude this isnt an innocent discussion. You are not the first person to post the 'issues' of online dating and how it will never work because of this or that and you wont be the last. You have an agenda.

Dude this isnt an innocent discussion. You are not the first person to post the 'issues' of online dating and how it will never work because of this or that and you wont be the last. You have an agenda.

What's the agenda? To discuss race and dating? Did that NPR article also have an agenda? If you don't like the topic, you don't have to respond.

I am white but have always been attracted to non white men. I lived in the caribbean for a few years where it was 98% black people and I experienced what you explained in your OP. Most (not all but most) of the black men stayed away from me, they wanted black women. They most definitely wanted to stay within their race. I don't know if they were attracted to me or not but ...it seemed like dating me was not in their line of thought at all.

 

Now I have a mixed race son and daughter and we live in a predominantly 'white' country. I've read the stats that you've read and I do sometimes worry about my daughters future experience with white guys. She was born and raised by me in this country so there won't be any cultural difference. I don't know if that will make a difference but I'm guessing it will.

Yeah, my ex, who was a mutt like me, shared a few stories of her strange dating experiences and how race factored into it. It was strange. I certainly hope youthful ignorance was a factor. I don't know.

What's the agenda? To discuss race and dating? Did that NPR article also have an agenda? If you don't like the topic, you don't have to respond.

You're being obtuse.

This is a self fulfilling prophesy.

Dating in LA is hard because everyone is beautiful and now dating is hard because of societal norms.

What are you, oscuro, doing that is making dating hard for you?

racial issues exist, id be blind to not see and agree with that, but it is not the reason you are struggling.

This thread has run its course...Closed.