Initiating in Dating

Hello ENA,

I thought I would post here to garner some advice from people who may be more seasoned when it comes to initiating in dating.

A little background: I'm 23 and male. Longest relationship 3 years off and on. My last exclusive relationship ended around 3 years ago. I've since had a few intense (but ultimately non-public, non-exclusive) relationships, but nothing committed. I'd say I'm not too shabby in the looks department, and my personality is fun/active/social too.

ANYWAYS. In most situations where I've wanted to actively pursue dating with the intention of a relationship, I feel I've not been very successful. Typically, in my most successful relationships to date, I've been pursued and "cued" (and usually, asked out on the date) by my future S/O. They initiate, at least at first, and it makes continuing pretty easy. That's been pretty nice for me. Now, I'm a little older, have my own place, full-time job, and I've been pretty universally recognized around my university (almost graduated with my Master's!!). I feel like this might make me intimidating or unapproachable to some, so I'm not attracting those whom would typically initiate. I may be overanalyzing.

I've also tried my hand at initiating. Whether on OLD or IRL, it typically burns out fast. I feel my personality may not really shine through on OLD (I'm not really the biggest fan of getting to know someone on a deeper level online, prefer in person), so on the VERY RARE occasion I get a match on a dating site, the messaging dies pretty immediately. Maybe I'm not good at playing the game! I've tried compliments, jokes, more conversation, less conversation, mostly just being me. It's weird how little I match (averaging 0 a week lol), and when I do match, how low the response rate is, and when they do respond and we have good conversation, how little people actually want to go on a casual first date. If I could get someone on a casual first date, that's where I would say I shine. That's my problem with OLD, anyway.

When it comes to dating / going on dates IRL, I haven't had anyone I would be interested in / find attractive legitimately "cue" me in a while. I say legitimately because sometimes I read an obvious cue, but then upon asking for a number or asking on a date (as I did with success in my teens), I am ignored. It's interesting, because I've never really been bad at this stuff! I feel like "no one likes you when you're 23" is ringing true. Lol.

Any suggestions on how I could improve, words of wisdom, what it could be? I would appreciate a Q&A. Also, supportive comments are appreciated. And also, be nice! Thanks :)

PDN5

Thinking back to my college days, I just can't imagine turning to OLD to find dates. You are meeting way too many people in real life - events, uni clubs, lectures, hobbies, clubbing, even ye olde library while trying to study, etc, etc, etc. I mean you are surrounded by other single people also looking. So I can see how in that age range, OLD wouldn't be the best option and how interest/response rate would be incredibly low. Women may sign up for fun, curiosity, just got dumped, etc, but I can't see them taking it seriously.

So, on to real life. In real life, you simply don't wait for cues as a guy. IF you like her, think she is cute, whatever, just go for it and approach her. Yes, she might have a bf, yes you might get shot down 100 times in a row, so what? If you don't approach, your chances are exactly zero. If you are looking for cues, you are wasting time and some other guy who is more gutsy just got the date. If she is cute, then she has no reason to pursue you, she is already being pursued plenty. If you want to be the guy she is with, you'll simply have to step up and go for it.

You might have someone take a look at your dating profile and give you some feedback. Sometimes you don't realize how you come across to other people. As for IRL, don't forget the women are also older and coming into their own, they're now more experienced, not the teenagers you dated before.

Well, if you're at school, there should be plenty of girls around that you can ask out. I wouldn't bother with online dating at this point. There should be some parties at school. You've got to chat up some girls at these parties. Go to any kinds of social functions. Are there any girls in your classes or track that you can take out? Once you graduate, your biggest source of potential friends will be gone, and it's more difficult out in the real world than it is in college to meet people.

I'd offer advise, but sadly I'm in pretty much the same boat as you (and I know you've tried to advise me before, which I appreciate).

If you're looking for some advice on online dating, I'd be more than happy to take a look at your profile.

The only thing you can do is keep on being you, doing the things you love and meeting people along the way. If it just so happens you meet someone you're interested in, then I'd say it's up to you to take the initial steps to get to know them. It's great you're in a position where sometimes it's not you doing the initiation, but you'd probably have more luck going down the "cultural norm" route of being a man who makes the first move.

Thinking back to my college days, I just can't imagine turning to OLD to find dates. You are meeting way too many people in real life - events, uni clubs, lectures, hobbies, clubbing, even ye olde library while trying to study, etc, etc, etc. I mean you are surrounded by other single people also looking. So I can see how in that age range, OLD wouldn't be the best option and how interest/response rate would be incredibly low. Women may sign up for fun, curiosity, just got dumped, etc, but I can't see them taking it seriously.

 

So, on to real life. In real life, you simply don't wait for cues as a guy. IF you like her, think she is cute, whatever, just go for it and approach her. Yes, she might have a bf, yes you might get shot down 100 times in a row, so what? If you don't approach, your chances are exactly zero. If you are looking for cues, you are wasting time and some other guy who is more gutsy just got the date. If she is cute, then she has no reason to pursue you, she is already being pursued plenty. If you want to be the guy she is with, you'll simply have to step up and go for it.

OLD is just one of my avenues. It is not solely the place I'm looking, thankfully. Rather, I think I'm doing something wrong when it comes to asking others out in person. Maybe I'm not as good at reading people as I'd thought. The latest is I was sure that a waitress at my favorite restaurant was flirting with me (wasn't at first, she was always nice, but then she started flirting). The lingering stares and smiles. I finally gave my number, she texted, and then ignored the following text. It's clear now (just trust me that it's clear) she's not interested as I thought she was. Maybe she was just doing it for the tips I was leaving (always tip them well at my favorite restaurant, something I enjoy doing).

I've been in other situations like the above. Only that one was a waitress, so it's not like it's just the industry. It seems like the person is being flirty, and I'm being flirty back. I want to be smooth and ask for dinner, or lunch, or coffee, depending on the situation (but I don't want a flirt buddy if I'm interested), but it just never works out. And I can take rejection fine, it just seems like my approach is off is all. I am worth more than only being able to attract FWBs, people less than my standard, or to be someone's rebound, yet that's all I've been able to attract as of late. Feels like everyone's rebounding from someone. I wish I had the answers to all of this. It used to be so much easier and more fun, and yet now I feel I'm MORE grown, established, funny, attractive, etc. and yet it's harder...???

You might have someone take a look at your dating profile and give you some feedback. Sometimes you don't realize how you come across to other people. As for IRL, don't forget the women are also older and coming into their own, they're now more experienced, not the teenagers you dated before.

Well, if you're at school, there should be plenty of girls around that you can ask out. I wouldn't bother with online dating at this point. There should be some parties at school. You've got to chat up some girls at these parties. Go to any kinds of social functions. Are there any girls in your classes or track that you can take out? Once you graduate, your biggest source of potential friends will be gone, and it's more difficult out in the real world than it is in college to meet people.

I know the large social groups will be more limited, and it scares me.

I'd offer advise, but sadly I'm in pretty much the same boat as you (and I know you've tried to advise me before, which I appreciate).

 

If you're looking for some advice on online dating, I'd be more than happy to take a look at your profile.

 

The only thing you can do is keep on being you, doing the things you love and meeting people along the way. If it just so happens you meet someone you're interested in, then I'd say it's up to you to take the initial steps to get to know them. It's great you're in a position where sometimes it's not you doing the initiation, but you'd probably have more luck going down the "cultural norm" route of being a man who makes the first move.

I like to get to know people. Lately, most people I've tried to connect with, strangely, seem not to respond to even conversational texts. Weird! I don't think I'm doing anything wrong there. Must just be coincidence.

I'm not really the best on cultural norms. This man = initiate all the time is difficult for me. I might need it broken out in steps as to what I'm supposed to do. Even then I bet I'd still be a little wrong. [emoji23]

Thanks! I'm not sure how to do that (through PMing?) but I'll think about it.

 

I like to get to know people. Lately, most people I've tried to connect with, strangely, seem not to respond to even conversational texts. Weird! I don't think I'm doing anything wrong there. Must just be coincidence.

 

I'm not really the best on cultural norms. This man = initiate all the time is difficult for me. I might need it broken out in steps as to what I'm supposed to do. Even then I bet I'd still be a little wrong. [emoji23]

Have you tried instead of just random casual conversation but trying just banter? If they ask something about you, you give answers but something that doesn't really give them an answer? To me this seems to work as far as OLD a bit (not much though - I really think it depends on the person and where they are at in life and what they are expecting from OLD) as they want to know but not really getting anything and you kind of force them to make a choice to get to know you in person. The whole OLD has the "they could kill me if we meet or they could be some stalker" stigma so perhaps more people just tread carefully about who they meet.

When you're online, you're using email. Email is horrible for getting to know someone. If anyone sparks your interest, get them out ASAP.

Response rates for men are notoriously low on OLD . You're not doing anything wrong. You're competing with hundreds, if not thousands of men.

I know a lot of women that love men that can dance. It's a good social circle to be in.

If most of your success comes from getting 'cued', then stick with what works. You may have to adapt/improve. But do what works for you. I've been very lucky this way. Most women I've dated made the first move. Especially online. I reasoned once, that I could improve my odds by being the initiator more often. I didn't see any improvement in results. Do what works for you.

You know what I notice, swiping right or left doesnt always get results. Depending on the day youre on just simply messaging people who are also online. I did that one evening and ended up chatting with quite a few nice men, just a total fluke. I dont think theres any rhyme or reason to this stuff, just what works best for you.

Well OP I have a good and bad news for you, I'm 36, regular looking, pretty active and healthy, lots of interests and activities among music and photography,

I travel often and am educated. Basically that's what women see (I hope so) on my profile and sorry here is the bad news, I don't get much more success than

you do. Weirdly a lot of women even initiate and say "hi how are you" and never ever reply after I do, but now the good news is since it's what happens to me,

you and lots of my male friends, seems that there might be nothing wrong about you or how you communicate !

Still it is a good idea to have female friends, look at your profile and find out their thinking, ask ones that show qualities you would look for in women, so their

views will be more in phase, with your search.

But you know like other said, I think the same thing when I get contacted by 22-23yo girls, why the hell are they on OLD at that age you have no issues meeting

people, so I would be you, I would enjoy activities and sports outside and just naturally meet people, you have all the time in the world to use OLD if all else fails.

Hope that's not too depressing, if not sorry but don't be too eager, that can look like clinginess to some women, just enjoy life and what will happen will

happen !

Have you tried instead of just random casual conversation but trying just banter? If they ask something about you, you give answers but something that doesn't really give them an answer? To me this seems to work as far as OLD a bit (not much though - I really think it depends on the person and where they are at in life and what they are expecting from OLD) as they want to know but not really getting anything and you kind of force them to make a choice to get to know you in person. The whole OLD has the "they could kill me if we meet or they could be some stalker" stigma so perhaps more people just tread carefully about who they meet.

Lol just kidding! Yep! I have... I think banter is important. I could add it a little more though in my newer conversations. I guess I find it difficult to casually banter with someone new/I just met over online chat. If I could only get a date from OLD, I'd shine.

When you're online, you're using email. Email is horrible for getting to know someone. If anyone sparks your interest, get them out ASAP.

 

Response rates for men are notoriously low on OLD . You're not doing anything wrong. You're competing with hundreds, if not thousands of men.

 

I know a lot of women that love men that can dance. It's a good social circle to be in.

 

If most of your success comes from getting 'cued', then stick with what works. You may have to adapt/improve. But do what works for you. I've been very lucky this way. Most women I've dated made the first move. Especially online. I reasoned once, that I could improve my odds by being the initiator more often. I didn't see any improvement in results. Do what works for you.

You know what I notice, swiping right or left doesnt always get results. Depending on the day youre on just simply messaging people who are also online. I did that one evening and ended up chatting with quite a few nice men, just a total fluke. I dont think theres any rhyme or reason to this stuff, just what works best for you.

Well OP I have a good and bad news for you, I'm 36, regular looking, pretty active and healthy, lots of interests and activities among music and photography,

I travel often and am educated. Basically that's what women see (I hope so) on my profile and sorry here is the bad news, I don't get much more success than

you do. Weirdly a lot of women even initiate and say "hi how are you" and never ever reply after I do, but now the good news is since it's what happens to me,

you and lots of my male friends, seems that there might be nothing wrong about you or how you communicate !

 

Still it is a good idea to have female friends, look at your profile and find out their thinking, ask ones that show qualities you would look for in women, so their

views will be more in phase, with your search.

 

But you know like other said, I think the same thing when I get contacted by 22-23yo girls, why the hell are they on OLD at that age you have no issues meeting

people, so I would be you, I would enjoy activities and sports outside and just naturally meet people, you have all the time in the world to use OLD if all else fails.

 

Hope that's not too depressing, if not sorry but don't be too eager, that can look like clinginess to some women, just enjoy life and what will happen will

happen !

Do you have any close female friends? If so, I second having them take a look at your profile—never hurts for the wiser gender to give us cavemen a little perspective on ourselves. Also, just hang with them, and with whomever you're able to be your full, truest self around. Because it's when you start really cultivating that that everything else will click into place.

I don't mean this to sound judgy, but you're kind of talking about women as if they're aliens, or an intricate math problem. They are just...people. Boring, thrilling, compelling, disappointing, curious, ravishing, fickle, secure, mysterious—all the things. Engage with them on that level—no expectations except getting to know what makes them click—and you may find some of the pressure you're feeling now lessens. And without that pressurized chip on your shoulder, who knows? You may just start attracting what you want, rather than trying win a game and feeling frustrated when you've lost.

IRL, OLD, it's all a dice roll. That's the fun of it! I've got quite a few years on you—I'm 38—and rest assured there's no winning. There's just enjoying the ride, seeing what comes. Sometimes you match up, sometimes you don't. Sometimes things fizzle out unexpectedly. Sometimes you're having sex with someone you're super into but they're kind of meh about you, and sometimes it's the reverse. Sometimes the waitress seems into you but turns out she isn't, or was just flirting because she's a bit bored with her bf but still kind of into him.

And, sometimes, when you least expect it, the fireworks are big and mutual and the ride is a whole lot of fun. Those moments are simply rare, which is why we seek them, treasure them, and mourn them. If they were around every corner, we'd be bored.

 

And, sometimes, when you least expect it, the fireworks are big and mutual and the ride is a whole lot of fun. Those moments are simply rare, which is why we seek them, treasure them, and mourn them. If they were around every corner, we'd be bored.

Love this!! And so true.