Self Employment - To call in the towel or not? Nothing but confused

Hey Everyone

I'm having one of those weeks again where life it bothering me.

So I am self-employed for a few years now. I work doing renovations and construction services.

I started the business a long time ago, but I was working for employer at the time. After one employer went bankrupt and I lost my job, business started to pick up. For a while it went went. I had work, I had booking where people were waiting for me with a smile on their face.

Fast forward a short period of time later. I met a client, took me 3 months to finish their basement. Which is way too long for the size. 500 sq.ft apartment. Ended up doing work for her dad, didn't really make money there. In the meantime I squeezed in a few jobs so I guess you can say it wasn't too bad.

Client ends up buying a new property, pretty much once I end up finishing up her place. Had a small time gap between the properties. Even ruined my vacation time between them because I was supposed to start sooner rather then later. Work be work right, so it was whatever.

Took on a whole house remodel, nothing but cosmetics. Ended up being nothing but a can of worms. Took me 11 months to get out of there.

Long story short that job left me high and dry. No work. I ended up with way too many cancellations. In pretty much that year. I found temporary employment with a company who needed sub-contractors.

I worked their for 1 year until their project was complete. In that time, I quoted way too many jobs and only got 2 of them. In which I didn't get paid from 1 and they sleep easy at night. I did a few small jobs for a repeat client and stuff for a property management company I do stuff for. Lady calls me up and well she bought another house and thats where I have ended up once again.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I think I am running a sinking ship. I have quoted a fair amount of projects but have only been able to lock in 3 of them. No one can provided me any words of encouragement. No one wants me to quit and find a job either. Not sure why though. Anytime I mention I am going to price a job everyone says to me "why do you even bother these people are just wasting your time they are just looking to get as many quotes as possible". Its not the greatest thing to hear honestly. I really can't compete now a days, which is discouraging as well. Certain ethnic groups are working for cheap and they grab all the people who are frugal. I don't know how they can with price of materials in todays market. Certain ethinic groups have the clients with great budgets. I'm just having a hard time grabbing clients past almost 2 years.

I gave the property management company some quotes and they contacted me on Friday. Besides them still having a balance which I aint getting. 12k from them too. The new manager is trying to barter with me for cheaper. I literally can't go cheaper. I priced most of it based on piece work pricing to give them a great rate. So I've lost thing job as well.

I am literally lost for words myself. I just don't know what to do myself. Finish off the one project I have going right now and then the other few I have booked. Then start looking for work?

I need my mojo back but I don't know how to get it.

I wish I had a good answer for you but I don't know anything about business really. Just wanted to say that my ex did that exact same job and it seemed like nothing but headaches and trying to get people to pay. I really admire your skills and work ethic.

My ex had buddies and even various Craigslist subcontractors that helped when he had big jobs; could you get some workers to help you take on more jobs, to make more profit? Can you put a lein on the ones that aren't paying?

My business is a good business to be in. I have never had any issues getting paid before. Everyone used to pay easy. People used to and most of them still do yell at me to come and collect asap.

I actually have 2 guys, both part time which works best for us. When there is work they work, when there isn't they bum around and do their own. Its great because when small one man jobs are being done, they aren't needed.

I really need to look into what I can do for the ones that aren't paying. Well one I guarantee you will not pay unless I send court papers, and then they will probably weasel their way out somehow. They will make up a reason as to why they lost a tenant and its my fault etx. Apparently the girl left because I never installed a close rod, but there was never one scoped in the contract plus the girl had told me she was moving out. The property management company I have no idea, I can probably go to the municipality but I don't know what can of worms that will open up.

I will tell you the most frustrating part. I am trying to operate a legitimate business. I have a legal business, municipal license, workers comp, liability insurance and experience. I have permits in place usually. I admit there are some jobs which I don't get permits. Everyone is guilty of that so I know I shouldn't talk much about it. These are usually jobs that are border line permit no permit. I can go in to detail if anyone wants to know.

However, I have competition from others who don't have all these things and are getting the jobs and even messing them up but are still getting paid. I even have friends who call me for advice on pricing and advice on how to the job, never any permits. It really frustrating. I get it they are trying to run a business and want to make a living for themselves but its just frustrating. These people are undercutting many of us, and making it very hard for us to find work.

Tough industry. I feel you on that one. People are often wary with contractors to begin with...add to that some misconceptions about what things cost...and you have a bit of a losing battle.

I've discovered a happy medium for myself. Sub-contract for bigger companies on bigger jobs when they're available. Then run my own ship on a cash basis when I'm between contracts. For the small jobs, customers buy material upfront at my recommendation. Labour is whatever it takes. Quotes are a waste of my time. I trust you...you trust me. The first sign of squawking and I walk. There are plenty of people out there with the awareness of what things cost to do right...and with the integrity to pay for what's been done.

Very little protection out there for contractors. I reserve the right to be choosy about who I work for. This ability to be selective has made work more pleasant.

Personally, I have yet to meet a small, independent contractor who made it seem worthwhile to run a business. Just too much that can go sideways. Not worth the frustration.

I run a small online biz about 3 hours west of you, and we are fortunate it is doing really well. The 4 men next door to me, a father and 3 grown sons, are all in construction. They all work for various bigger companies who build apartments, condos etc. and they are all gainfully employed and paid each week. Maybe you need to look for full or part time work with an established construction company and do your own thing on your own time.

Tough industry. I feel you on that one. People are often wary with contractors to begin with...add to that some misconceptions about what things cost...and you have a bit of a losing battle.

 

I've discovered a happy medium for myself. Sub-contract for bigger companies on bigger jobs when they're available. Then run my own ship on a cash basis when I'm between contracts. For the small jobs, customers buy material upfront at my recommendation. Labour is whatever it takes. Quotes are a waste of my time. I trust you...you trust me. The first sign of squawking and I walk. There are plenty of people out there with the awareness of what things cost to do right...and with the integrity to pay for what's been done.

 

Very little protection out there for contractors. I reserve the right to be choosy about who I work for. This ability to be selective has made work more pleasant.

 

Personally, I have yet to meet a small, independent contractor who made it seem worthwhile to run a business. Just too much that can go sideways. Not worth the frustration.

I've been thinking about trying to get mostly sub-contracted jobs, then have some of my own for fillers. A friend of mine, has been doing this for 2 to 3 years now and its been good for him. He has 4 guys and is looking for another. He does call me but I am always stretched to my limits when he does or I'd go help him.

I've actually been thinking a few different things. One is to start letting the customer buy all the materials from my supplier, via phone order together with their credit card or we go together to the store and they buy it. The I give a price for just my labor services. Other thing I have been thinking is to tell them buy the materials and pay me like 45/hour or something like that. I can work 5 days a week, 8 hours per day then I guess I can be content with that because it would be like getting a regular cheque + sales tax.

Also what would be your opinion on trying to gain some work from 2 past employers as a sub? I want to invite them down to see this house remodel I am currently working on. Should be done by September.

I run a small online biz about 3 hours west of you, and we are fortunate it is doing really well. The 4 men next door to me, a father and 3 grown sons, are all in construction. They all work for various bigger companies who build apartments, condos etc. and they are all gainfully employed and paid each week. Maybe you need to look for full or part time work with an established construction company and do your own thing on your own time.

This is something that comes back to mind all the time. Just a matter of finding the right employer. Ideally, it would be nice for me to be doing like trims in high rise or even repairs in high rise and new homes. However, those are unions jobs and are very very hard to get. Smaller companies won't pay enough, and the ones who do seem like they are doing like super detailed work and it scares me that I won't last. I get scared they will say I am taking too long, or they don't like my work etx. Which there is nothing wrong with my work, just saying because I was getting jobs before and many via references.

If you want to continue working for your own company, I'll give you some advice I use myself. First of all, don't waste your time giving estimates when people are just looking for the cheapest price. You need to use a bit of marketing from the start.

When someone calls you, you say, look, I'm more expensive than a lot of other companies. I'm licensed. I'm insured. I pull all the permits I need to. I use American labor. If you're looking for the cheapest price, I'm not your guy. But if you want the best possible job and someone who will actually come out if there's any problems, I'm your man.

Then you can do this a couple of different ways. You can ask for something like 10% good faith fee upfront. If they cancel the job, you keep the money.

Then you charge them the full amount for materials and have the materials delivered to their house. By the way, you can easily arrange to accept credit cards on your cell phone, so you can offer your clients that method of payment/financing, and you can charge them the 3% processing fee if they can't write you a check.

Then you can have milestones for what is essentially the charge for your labor, like 1/3 upfront, 1/3 halfway through, 1/3 at completion. You also write up a contract where everything is spelled out clearly. If they add stuff while you're doing the work, you draw up another bill, get the materials cost upfront, and work out the new labor amount.

You can also subcontract your labor when you don't have a project going on. Nothing wrong with that. I was a freelancer for 13 years. At some points I found myself working for up to 4 different companies in a week.

What you want to do is eliminate clients who are just wasting your time because someone told them they had to get 3 separate quotes, and make sure you get paid at certain milestones. Keep in mind that you're not in the construction business, you're in the business business. Be professional and be a businessman. And your first priority is to make a profit. Good luck.

Always do payment installments as things progress. And initially price knowing you might not get the last payment.

I know giant construction companies, and they follow this methodology. If they don't pay, you don't keep continuing. In some cases never get the last payment. But they've already priced it in.

Get a website together (use wix.com, so easy to do), and add your business listing to Angieslist, yelp, facebook, google my business, and do some like ads to get more business.

Always do payment installments as things progress. And initially price knowing you might not get the last payment.

 

I know giant construction companies, and they follow this methodology. If they don't pay, you don't keep continuing. In some cases never get the last payment. But they've already priced it in.

 

Get a website together (use wix.com, so easy to do), and add your business listing to Angieslist, yelp, facebook, google my business, and do some like ads to get more business.

I agree---

If you have a lot of little jobs for a house -- agree to a small list and bill for that small list when completed. If there are other jobs, you bill separately.

If you initially are contracted to replace siding, the bill includes the siding. If they then ask you to pour concrete for the front walk - start that job once the first job is paid.

I know a lot of little things come up as you go -- but if you stick to that you will never be without money