I worry that my husband will never be satisfied

Ever since I've known him, my husband has been in school. I met him when he was in college. There was one year between his graduation and the beginning of his PhD program in music, when he was working but not in school, but preparing for graduate school. Graduate school is all-consuming. I say this because it's possible I am judging him unfairly; that maybe once he has gained his degree and is back to working again, things will be different. Does anyone have experience being in a tough PhD program, or being married to someone in graduate school?

Here's my concern: My husband is a hard-worker and in addition to his school, he is always working on creative side-projects. He writes and produces plays and musicals, he composes music, and recently produced an album. (These are things that will help him with work because he'll be well-rounded with education and practical experience, and an artistic portfolio of work). I am so proud of him, I admire him, and I think he's done so well. He's been accepted into competitions, won awards, gotten good reviews in local journalism, people have praised him. Hell, just the fact that he has MADE these things is a triumph. I am so impressed.

But to him, all of that is nothing. He doesn't see these as successes. He only seems to focus on the awards he didn't get, the tickets he didn't sell, the rejection letters. He's so hard on himself and I just think that nothing is ever enough for him!. He thinks of himself as a failure and a total loser.

OK, so he has gotten rejection letters, he has not won every award, there were lots of empty seats at his shows sometimes...but isn't that the nature of the arts world? I think everyone knows it's competitive and it's hard to succeed, it's saturated with talent and content, and it's hard for an independent artist to compete for attention when people would rather watch Game of Thrones or follow celebrity culture instead of go see a new play. I mean come on, considering all that, and that most people in a PhD program don't do all this extra craft, and oh by the way I think it's impressive that he's succeeding in his PhD program. All this is a successful life! Why isn't he happy?

I try to be a supporter for him but I'm in a tricky place. If I'm blindly supportive, and only positive, then my praise grows meaningless to him. When I question or criticize him, I worry about the fact that I'm the one who has to live with him, and what if he holds that criticism against me? There have been times when I tried to help him with promotional work and it worked out well. Other times, I made bad choices and it hurt his chances. I can't be his manager. I won't be. I never signed up for that. I will help him all day and night, I would totally be willing to work all day to support us so that he could just focus on creative projects, and I have told him that. But what is the point if he doesn't appreciate his successes? I can't make him happy, I can't make him see the positive in all of this work. It breaks my heart. In the end, this is HIS work and he has to feel good about it. And I can't live my life just for his success.

Maybe he'd be better off with someone who could promote his career and push him artistically. I just want a simple happy life. Are we not going to have that? Is it always going to be like this? I posted in another thread about how I'm sad that I don't think he wants children. I could accept sacrificing the chance to have a family if we could at least be happy together. But what if nothing will ever make him happy?

I would like some advice on how to think about this, and how I could approach talking to him about this without sounding like I'm accusing him of some fault.

I feel like another challenge is that you have an extreme creative type and likely you are not.

I wonder if his passion and him pouring himself into his studies and work distracts himself from his own personal issues regarding success and his life outside of his passions and school, yourself included.

You definitely need to talk to him about what your role and his role is in building this life together and what life you want.

Does he have mental health issues? Or just personal issues regarding success that most of us have?

I don't think you will have the simple life with him. I think you need to approach him from an angle of what you are building together and where you see yourselves and what kind of happiness do you guys both want.

All you are discussing is ALL up to him. You can’t make him feel good. He has to feel satisfied within himself. Stop knocking yourself out. He has to be responsible for his own mental state .

When did you know you were marrying an artist who was this passionate about his work? I dated and was involved with many artists for the simple reason that I love the arts, I love being a patron, a spectator and for about 10 years it also was part of my work. I have no artistic ability lol. Anyway, of course it's really competitive and requires a thick skin. Here's what I would do -be supportive from a distance. Always ask if he wants your input and then do a sandwich. The outside bread is a positive comment, the filling is the constructive criticism and the outer bread is another positive comment.

My husband is working on a PhD and is in a very competitive field. He is humble and a bit self-deprecating but I've always noticed he assesses his work realistically and I do give him feedback on his work - been doing that for many years He really appreciates it.

Is your husband critical of your accomplishments as well? Do you notice and acknowledge when he says something positive about his accomplishments (meaning not gushy, just noting it). I'd try that.

I don't buy that you always just wanted a simple happy life. If you had you wouldn't have married him - a struggling but up and coming artist who is very hard on himself and works tirelessly at his art. You say you're impressed with all he's accomplished and what he's accomplished is not "simple" - getting a PhD is never simple either. Maybe he changed a lot but I bet he's been an artist since he was a toddler or at least by the time he was in high school.

This is about him, there is nothing you can do.

What do you do for your life? You seem too wrapped up in what makes him happy.

Does he allow time for you?

I try to be a supporter for him but I'm in a tricky place. If I'm blindly supportive, and only positive, then my praise grows meaningless to him. When I question or criticize him, I worry about the fact that I'm the one who has to live with him, and what if he holds that criticism against me? There have been times when I tried to help him with promotional work and it worked out well. Other times, I made bad choices and it hurt his chances. I can't be his manager. I won't be. I never signed up for that. I will help him all day and night, I would totally be willing to work all day to support us so that he could just focus on creative projects, and I have told him that. But what is the point if he doesn't appreciate his successes? I can't make him happy, I can't make him see the positive in all of this work. It breaks my heart. In the end, this is HIS work and he has to feel good about it. And I can't live my life just for his success.

he is driven by constant improvement. In the commercial arts, people feel they have arrived when they get a review from a noted critic or their album sells. I think that if you are not a musician, you should approach criticism from this view: Point out the things you personally like but contrast them "I like this piece better than this piece BECAUSE" etc -- then it is not just blind praise. You need to realize that you are not supposed to nor can make him happy as a musician. That comes from inside. Making him happy as a husband is a different matter -- if the key to his heart is his stomach, or his men parts, or its just being present with him, etc, figure out what that is.

Also - seeing the positive in all his work --- as someone who worked in the performing arts - not all my work was good. Some was stellar, but some was truly awful. And it was okay for it to be.

No, don't be his manager. He needs to learn from his mistakes himself and don't work two jobs to support him -- he needs to know that his financial contributions are needed and matter -- whether he gives music lessons while he is working on his next piece to earn money or it puts the drive on him to create something commercial.

I mean....this is who he is. Either you can accept that he is a miserable, the glass is always empty, kind of a person or you can't and you need to part ways. Sorry, but there is no in between. You can't fix him, change his core personality or force him into being happy as per your own standard of happiness.

In terms of what you do and don't for him, maybe it would be good to actually discuss that. If you don't want to be his manager and do marketing, then don't. Regarding how much he works - what he is doing isn't just work, it's his life, his passion and he is never going to be a guy who goes to work 9-5, comes home and pays attention to his family. It doesn't work like for most people like him. What he does is all consuming to him.

I think in some ways you are kind of failing to understand what drives him. Yes, he is focusing on the empty seats, because that motivates him to do even better next time. Ditto for focusing on what he didn't win - his brain then obsesses on how to win next time. Without that, he won't achieve what he does.

Now I'm not saying that always focusing on what you don't have, didn't achieve, etc is necessarily healthy if it goes too far and it can certainly make a person like that pretty miserable to be around. However, you need to understand that you can't control that. You have to decide if this is the personality you can live with happily or if his constant competitiveness and negativity will drag you down too much in the long run.

What are your own passions, and what drives you?

He is an extreme creative type. I have always been attracted to creative types. I love his passion and work-ethic and the things he makes. I love to encourage him creatively. I have taken part in some of his productions and those times were tough, working together, but also something I felt great pride in, because I got to do something special.

He always has three ideas going, in addition to being passionate about his school research. He has said that he would like to teach at a university and be able to produce his own creative work as well, and do his own research. He is a harsh self-critic but I suppose I am unfairly describing him as only self-critical. He is not; he also loves his own work on other occasions. I just think that he seems to place too much on external validation and to me that seems like he's setting himself (and therefore us) up for future disappointments. When he feels down about his perceived lack of success, I feel totally helpless and useless and awful. And this emotional rollercoaster of productive optimistic highs and downtrodden "I'm a failure" lows is taxing. When he's down, I feel distant from him. I feel lonely.

I worry that he experiences irrational depression or anxiety. He comes from a working-class, highschool-education, small-town family that is so not the typical foundation for artistic, educated men. The men in his family are plumbers and construction contractors and they go hunting and fishing, and church. They just want him to stay close to home. Maybe he feels kind of lonely for this, like he doesn't fit in in the arts world or in his family.

He is supportive and encouraging of me when I do things, but yeah he can be a harsh critic, too. But certainly no worse than he is on himself. He can be brutally honest. But he's equal in praise and criticism. He does not expect me to support him. He does want a lot of help from me, and time.

Dancing Fool, I see what you're saying. This is who he is and he's not going to change. Maybe he feels like he doesn't want to get too comfortable or satisfied and this is a willing sort of refusal to be satisfied, because that dissatisfaction is what drives him. But I have to decide what that will do to me.

I think I could function in this relationship but I would have to distance myself emotionally from him a little bit, because I can't handle this, the helplessness and feeling worried. But then if I'm emotionally distant, why am I even there? Just to be like his assistant, his friend?

I suppose I don't really have passions. I want to be a good person, I want honest relationships. I love our families, I love doing good work and impacting lives of others. I do some creative hobbies but they're just hobbies.

I don't think I can leave him. I want to work on our marriage no matter what. I want to find some way to accept who he is, and also be myself, in a way that's healthy. I think that if I am just myself, and try to balance that emotional distance, and balance my emotional involvement in what I can and cannot control...then I may just be holding him back.

He is an extreme creative type. I have always been attracted to creative types. I love his passion and work-ethic and the things he makes. I love to encourage him creatively. I have taken part in some of his productions and those times were tough, working together, but also something I felt great pride in, because I got to do something special.

 

He always has three ideas going, in addition to being passionate about his school research. He has said that he would like to teach at a university and be able to produce his own creative work as well, and do his own research. He is a harsh self-critic but I suppose I am unfairly describing him as only self-critical. He is not; he also loves his own work on other occasions. I just think that he seems to place too much on external validation and to me that seems like he's setting himself (and therefore us) up for future disappointments. When he feels down about his perceived lack of success, I feel totally helpless and useless and awful. And this emotional rollercoaster of productive optimistic highs and downtrodden "I'm a failure" lows is taxing. When he's down, I feel distant from him. I feel lonely.

 

I worry that he experiences irrational depression or anxiety. He comes from a working-class, highschool-education, small-town family that is so not the typical foundation for artistic, educated men. The men in his family are plumbers and construction contractors and they go hunting and fishing, and church. They just want him to stay close to home. Maybe he feels kind of lonely for this, like he doesn't fit in in the arts world or in his family.

 

He is supportive and encouraging of me when I do things, but yeah he can be a harsh critic, too. But certainly no worse than he is on himself. He can be brutally honest. But he's equal in praise and criticism. He does not expect me to support him. He does want a lot of help from me, and time.

He isn't the problem here. You are. What I mean is that you have completely abandoned yourself and your sense of self and warped yourself into being what he is. He is happy, you are happy. He is sad, you are sad. Forget worrying about his health - pay better attention to yourself. You are very much off base and have lost your own identity in this. Your spouse should be able to be themselves and feel how they feel without you losing your mind over it. That is the real unhealthy part and the unhealthy dynamic you are creating for yourself.

Do you get time from him?

What do you do for yourself? What are your interests? You sound like you have lost yourself.

He isn't the problem here. You are. What I mean is that you have completely abandoned yourself and your sense of self and warped yourself into being what he is. He is happy, you are happy. He is sad, you are sad. Forget worrying about his health - pay better attention to yourself. You are very much off base and have lost your own identity in this. Your spouse should be able to be themselves and feel how they feel without you losing your mind over it. That is the real unhealthy part and the unhealthy dynamic you are creating for yourself.

This is blowing my mind. I have never even considered this.

He isn't the problem here. You are. What I mean is that you have completely abandoned yourself and your sense of self and warped yourself into being what he is. He is happy, you are happy. He is sad, you are sad. Forget worrying about his health - pay better attention to yourself. You are very much off base and have lost your own identity in this. Your spouse should be able to be themselves and feel how they feel without you losing your mind over it. That is the real unhealthy part and the unhealthy dynamic you are creating for yourself.

Absolutely.

.....

Do you get time from him?

 

What do you do for yourself? What are your interests? You sound like you have lost yourself.

Actually I have lots of time from him and I feel kind of lonely when he's immersed in work. I worry that I might get too distant from him, or maybe like Dancing Fool suggests, maybe I'm too wrapped up in his feelings. I'm not sure right now.

It's sounds like you are. Do you have friends? Interests? What do you do outside of him?

I can't help but wonder if this isn't simply you attempting to rationalize resentment for him currently schooling while you're working. You seem to be jumping through a lot of hoops here.

I don't think anything you've written is intrinsically all too worrying, but it's important that, while you are a married couple, he exercise a proper amount of independence when pursuing his own passions and development and that you permit him to do so. It sounds like, whether he's unfairly expected you to or you've unfairly volunteered yourself the position, you've become to some extent a martyr for his sake.

To try and relate a bit to his self critiques, while my fiancee doesn't quite lean as heavily to that end as your guy, she can be very self critical, though healthily so. Still, while the feedback would be perfectly healthy if internalized and acted upon, there came a point I had to let her know it was draining to hear it vocalized. If you're trying to enjoy a show or cook in peace and he's routinely coming in to lament every note he's ever missed, I'd work on setting some boundaries. Or, again, if you're over involving yourself and inherently being included in the process of criticism and revision, it'd be a good sign to back off.

 

he is driven by constant improvement. In the commercial arts, people feel they have arrived when they get a review from a noted critic or their album sells. I think that if you are not a musician, you should approach criticism from this view: Point out the things you personally like but contrast them "I like this piece better than this piece BECAUSE" etc -- then it is not just blind praise. You need to realize that you are not supposed to nor can make him happy as a musician. That comes from inside. Making him happy as a husband is a different matter -- if the key to his heart is his stomach, or his men parts, or its just being present with him, etc, figure out what that is.

 

Also - seeing the positive in all his work --- as someone who worked in the performing arts - not all my work was good. Some was stellar, but some was truly awful. And it was okay for it to be.

 

No, don't be his manager. He needs to learn from his mistakes himself and don't work two jobs to support him -- he needs to know that his financial contributions are needed and matter -- whether he gives music lessons while he is working on his next piece to earn money or it puts the drive on him to create something commercial.

You worked in the performing arts. Did you have a committed partner during that time? Can you offer some reflections on what you valued in that partnership, with regard to how it affected your performing work?

In terms of the love languages, he values quality time together. I think it would be simpler if I could demonstrate my support just by buying him something or showing physical love but he actually wants me to just be there with him.

I can't help but wonder if this isn't simply you attempting to rationalize resentment for him currently schooling while you're working. You seem to be jumping through a lot of hoops here.

 

I don't think anything you've written is intrinsically all too worrying, but it's important that, while you are a married couple, he exercise a proper amount of independence when pursuing his own passions and development and that you permit him to do so. It sounds like, whether he's unfairly expected you to or you've unfairly volunteered yourself the position, you've become to some extent a martyr for his sake.

 

To try and relate a bit to his self critiques, while my fiancee doesn't quite lean as heavily to that end as your guy, she can be very self critical, though healthily so. Still, while the feedback would be perfectly healthy if internalized and acted upon, there came a point I had to let her know it was draining to hear it vocalized. If you're trying to enjoy a show or cook in peace and he's routinely coming in to lament every note he's ever missed, I'd work on setting some boundaries. Or, again, if you're over involving yourself and inherently being included in the process of criticism and revision, it'd be a good sign to back off.

Thank you for this insight, which has sparked me to think I'm throwing myself through these hoops of my own creation and then lamenting that it's not enough. I don't think he's ever asked me in any way to take on the burden of his satisfaction in life. I think I've taken that on, myself, for some reason. I don't know why. I want him to be happy, I wish he could be more satisfied, I can't MAKE the world shower him with praise and I can't MAKE him feel proud when he's self-critical. I just have to get over it. I gotta get a life, so to speak. Maybe that would even be good for him...although that line of thinking is probably not helpful.

He is an extreme creative type. I have always been attracted to creative types. I love his passion and work-ethic and the things he makes. I love to encourage him creatively. I have taken part in some of his productions and those times were tough, working together, but also something I felt great pride in, because I got to do something special.

 

He always has three ideas going, in addition to being passionate about his school research. He has said that he would like to teach at a university and be able to produce his own creative work as well, and do his own research. He is a harsh self-critic but I suppose I am unfairly describing him as only self-critical. He is not; he also loves his own work on other occasions. I just think that he seems to place too much on external validation and to me that seems like he's setting himself (and therefore us) up for future disappointments. When he feels down about his perceived lack of success, I feel totally helpless and useless and awful. And this emotional rollercoaster of productive optimistic highs and downtrodden "I'm a failure" lows is taxing. When he's down, I feel distant from him. I feel lonely.

 

I worry that he experiences irrational depression or anxiety. He comes from a working-class, highschool-education, small-town family that is so not the typical foundation for artistic, educated men. The men in his family are plumbers and construction contractors and they go hunting and fishing, and church. They just want him to stay close to home. Maybe he feels kind of lonely for this, like he doesn't fit in in the arts world or in his family.

 

He is supportive and encouraging of me when I do things, but yeah he can be a harsh critic, too. But certainly no worse than he is on himself. He can be brutally honest. But he's equal in praise and criticism. He does not expect me to support him. He does want a lot of help from me, and time.

So you didn't just want a simple happy life - but if you do now I don't think he's the guy.

I could not disagree more about your comments about his family's influence. There is no typical foundation for artistic, educated men. So many artists not only have innate talent but become artists because of family struggles, because of feeling disconnected or unlike their family who might not have artistic talent. Just look at famous people in the arts -sure, a number come from families where there is great emphasis on the arts but so many don't. My grandfather washed windows and maybe finished 5th grade. Both of his children graduated college and one became a doctor. One of them played a musical instrument in a well known orchestra. He is an adult man -he made and makes his own choices and so often artists have to "rebel" a bit no matter what their family is right -or at least they need to dare to be different.

Sure it's challenging if his parents want him close to home and he cannot practice his art if he does this. And I bet those challenges make him stronger. Good for him for striking out on his own.

Definitely get your own life more, your own interests - I agree you're too wrapped up in his.

I do not have friends, TBH. I've always been kind of a loner but, also he is high maintenance. I don't mind saying that in all honesty and without judgement. He's high maintenance. He's sensitive, emotional. Outside of being with him, I work, volunteer, read, paint, I'm finishing a Master's Degree, and before I got too busy with school I was working with a group of writers on a sci-fi fiction magazine for which I wrote my very own short story. And funny thing, I felt like bragging to the world about that one self-published short story that about 10 people in the world even knew about. What a contrast between myself and him.

I do not have friends, TBH. I've always been kind of a loner but, also he is high maintenance. I don't mind saying that in all honesty and without judgement. He's high maintenance. He's sensitive, emotional. Outside of being with him, I work, volunteer, read, paint, I'm finishing a Master's Degree, and before I got too busy with school I was working with a group of writers on a sci-fi fiction magazine for which I wrote my very own short story. And funny thing, I felt like bragging to the world about that one self-published short story that about 10 people in the world even knew about. What a contrast between myself and him.

I think it is awesome that you wrote a short story that was published! When you volunteer do you interact with people?

I do interact with people. I volunteer at a community science education center. Kids, families, it's awesome.

It just sounds like you need to work on yourself and figure out for yourself a better life balance. Being there for each other when needed, being proud of your husband and his achievements, participating in what he does when it comes up - all great. However, when you find yourself sitting around like a lonely puppy pining and waiting on master's attention but the master is busy with other things - that's not healthy. When he is busy, you NEED to have your own interests and pursuits as well and find your own fulfillment outside of what your husband's mood happens to be. That won't take away from your marriage, but quite the opposite - make it stronger and better and more secure. It will make you a more interesting person in your own right and not just a shadow of your husband.

I do not have friends, TBH. I've always been kind of a loner but, also he is high maintenance. I don't mind saying that in all honesty and without judgement. He's high maintenance. He's sensitive, emotional. Outside of being with him, I work, volunteer, read, paint, I'm finishing a Master's Degree, and before I got too busy with school I was working with a group of writers on a sci-fi fiction magazine for which I wrote my very own short story. And funny thing, I felt like bragging to the world about that one self-published short story that about 10 people in the world even knew about. What a contrast between myself and him.

Heh....that's just a difference in personalities and neither of you is wrong. For example, I compete in sports and win often. If you walk into my house, you'd never know it. The "evidence" is stuffed somewhere in the back of a closet. Understand that winning is a thrill, but I'm almost immediately focused on what's next. I'm not sitting on the laurels, I'm actually already analyzing all the things that went wrong, what was weak, what needs more training, etc. That's not negativity, btw, that's just the competitive edge. A good friend of mine also competes - her house is loaded with every single thing she has ever won. She lives for showing it off and God help you if you are foolish enough to ask about it. She'll go on for hours on what, how, when, where, what happened, etc, etc, etc.