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Thread: Faith Commitment Action

  1. #431
    Platinum Member IAmFCA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Batya33
    I agree about the indebtedness aspect. You know it's weird - I've never thought of this till I read what you wrote but I ended the engagement with my husband -the first one -first - he didn't want to give it another shot after I did that (we discussed this after a month "break" back then) but when we finally got back together 8 years later I felt that he was going into this as willingly as I was and I didn't feel indebted to him or extra generous, maybe because what I put him through had to do with us not being right together, with me not wanting to sign up for a divorce (especially since we wanted kids right away) - but maybe it's about timing and reason- what you had to endure - I get it but still your thoughts/insights about how the dynamic changes with "another chance" is so interesting. And maybe that's a reason in certain situations not to give another chance because it will upset the dynamic in the way you described - lifetime of "making it up" to the person.
    Yes -- or, if getting back together is the right choice, being prepared to be 100% forward looking so that the two people embark united and on even ground.

    This current fellow has a lifetime of saddling himself with his past mistakes as if he can offer himself no forgiveness, and as if he is fully responsible for others. He has been learning to let things go. This break is in part a reflection of his commitment to learning how to let go of the past (and the future).

    Ironically, it has taught me something too.

  2. #432
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    Yes, I get that and yes we actually were 100% forward looking. When we first talked about getting back together I did the "what if" thing like what if we end up not working out again but realized so much time had passed and we were different people etc so forward looking it was.

  3. #433
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    It makes sense that you're having these thoughts of "debt" right now. Much as you're being in the present, part of your present is ruminating, which is human. You know how you feel right this second—a bit edgy, but also hopeful, to say nothing of respectful and compassionate for where that frustrating thing known as reality falls a bit short of our expectations of it. So when you imagine reconciliation the question comes about of: what to do with that edge? How to prevent it from tearing the fabric?

    But whether it's next week or later, I think reconciliation works, in part, because that edge just isn't there, or it's already dulled to the point where it doesn't interfere as much as you can imagine it inferring right this second, if that makes sense. That's the work you're doing right now—hard work, but lovely work. Growth. It's working out a muscle that will serve you well whatever the outcome is—that one that allows you to sit with uncertainty. Which is, of course, what being present is.

    I had a big breakup years ago where I was in a similar state. She had itches to scratch—not the obvious ones, but something deeper, more existential. She was a searcher. I am a searcher. I very much believed in the power of us—even when she'd come to see "us" as an impediment to the search—but I equally believed, fully, in the power of her, in her her-ness, you could say. I leaned into both those truths, even when there was no label, no contact.

    That didn't mean I froze myself in a state of holding on, but that I just accepted that those truths were both true, until time proved otherwise. We didn't get back together, so I can't share a fairytale ending, though I consider all that a fairytale of sorts regardless. I grew a lot. She and I found the relationship we were meant to have, which is not a romantic one. But the lessons I learned in that hard, thorny space were as important as anything I learned when we were sharing space.

    Helped me conduct myself a little differently out there in world. The lessons, I guess you could say, softened the edge, prepared me for what was next—whether it was with her, with myself, with another. A total work in progress still, and will be forever, but the rewards do keep coming, just sometimes from unexpected angles. That was six or seven years ago, what I'm describing. Today I am leaning into something that feels new, and that I would never have had the strength or bravery to lean into were it not for that chapter.

    Not sure if that brings any comfort—but I don't think I'm trying to comfort you so much as just listen a bit and share a bit.

  4. #434
    Platinum Member IAmFCA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    It makes sense that you're having these thoughts of "debt" right now. Much as you're being in the present, part of your present is ruminating, which is human. You know how you feel right this second—a bit edgy, but also hopeful, to say nothing of respectful and compassionate for where that frustrating thing known as reality falls a bit short of our expectations of it. So when you imagine reconciliation the question comes about of: what to do with that edge? How to prevent it from tearing the fabric?

    But whether it's next week or later, I think reconciliation works, in part, because that edge just isn't there, or it's already dulled to the point where it doesn't interfere as much as you can imagine it inferring right this second, if that makes sense. That's the work you're doing right now—hard work, but lovely work. Growth. It's working out a muscle that will serve you well whatever the outcome is—that one that allows you to sit with uncertainty. Which is, of course, what being present is.

    I had a big breakup years ago where I was in a similar state. She had itches to scratch—not the obvious ones, but something deeper, more existential. She was a searcher. I am a searcher. I very much believed in the power of us—even when she'd come to see "us" as an impediment to the search—but I equally believed, fully, in the power of her, in her her-ness, you could say. I leaned into both those truths, even when there was no label, no contact.

    That didn't mean I froze myself in a state of holding on, but that I just accepted that those truths were both true, until time proved otherwise. We didn't get back together, so I can't share a fairytale ending, though I consider all that a fairytale of sorts regardless. I grew a lot. She and I found the relationship we were meant to have, which is not a romantic one. But the lessons I learned in that hard, thorny space were as important as anything I learned when we were sharing space.

    Helped me conduct myself a little differently out there in world. The lessons, I guess you could say, softened the edge, prepared me for what was next—whether it was with her, with myself, with another. A total work in progress still, and will be forever, but the rewards do keep coming, just sometimes from unexpected angles. That was six or seven years ago, what I'm describing. Today I am leaning into something that feels new, and that I would never have had the strength or bravery to lean into were it not for that chapter.

    Not sure if that brings any comfort—but I don't think I'm trying to comfort you so much as just listen a bit and share a bit.
    Bluecastle, this is spot on, validating, comforting, motivating, loving. Or, as my teens would say: "All the things".

    I enjoy your writing and the perspective from which you frame a thought. The human experience is of the highest value,, and it is appreciated without regard to its convenience. This, in a sense, is what love is, and so your writing has a warmth to it that adds to its technical quality.

    Anyway - yes, that is it, all of it. That is my personal purpose here, to learn this deeper level of love and acceptance and appreciation, which just bloomed anew within me. To go off on his own was a hard decision for him, and I have new appreciation for it. I did not make it easy and yet he did what he needed to do - and I may have needed this too in order to learn what I need to learn.

    I like to think I can learn without the together/apart cycle That said, there is a reason for the saying Necessity is the mother of ~. I have needed to study and find a way to peace.

    Always, letting go =>peace.

    The other day I considered ridding my place of its furniture. And why not? I would love it with nearly nothing.

    It does make it difficult to have guests. Ha. Maybe I will solve for that.

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  6. #435
    Platinum Member IAmFCA's Avatar
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    faith. faith is incredibly powerful. When i was young i was so strong in my faith.

    Perhaps what we fear is ourselves. We grow to learn the extent of our power. We learn how easy it is to get in the way of what's right, while in pursuit of what we think we need.

    ---

    We had an exchange today, and it was full of love and humanity, in whatever form that takes. He said about a week ago it occurred to him that I too am growing and learning, and that it had never before occurred to him that I had anything left to learn. Goodness. I am glad for the ability to grow; can one imagine not learning anything new? Awful.

    eta
    Perhaps this fear of our own power is why the powerful take time out to discern.

    I have often understood the teachings as to the importance of listening. I understand another layer now.
    Last edited by IAmFCA; 07-05-2019 at 10:32 PM.

  7. #436
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IAmFCA
    He said about a week ago it occurred to him that I too am growing and learning, and that it had never before occurred to him that I had anything left to learn. Goodness. I am glad for the ability to grow; can one imagine not learning anything new? Awful.
    I'm not surprised to read this. I don't know you, don't know him, but there's something here that I can relate to, on both sides. Something in both your spirits: that place where independence and adventure can be both a path toward self-understanding and, let's be honest, a path toward escaping the self.

    We're always doing both, of course, all of us. On Monday we think we "get" ourselves, have "found" ourselves, but come Wednesday we are a mystery once more, as lost as we were at 14, at 24. It's dizzying. It's spectacular. It's forever.

    I do wonder how that comment landed with you, or how it resonates in the aftershocks (sorry—I've been in two earthquakes in 24 hours, so I'm thinking in geological metaphors). What I see there is someone who thinks you are more evolved than him, a frustrating dynamic on both sides, even if it's not true. I'm not sure that's ever true, with any two people, but perception is powerful.

    Minus my earliest romance—at 23—I have always been with people who see me as the more evolved one. Call that an arrogant statement, but I think it's accurate, much as I'd like to write otherwise, being all for equality in every conceivable way. Was this the dynamic I was chasing, without realizing it? Probably. Has there been some personal growth in asking that question? Certainly. Do I have any solid answers? Who knows?

    But I'm curious how that felt, what you're feeling, and hoping this Saturday is off to a nice start for you.

  8. #437
    Platinum Member IAmFCA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    I'm not surprised to read this. I don't know you, don't know him, but there's something here that I can relate to, on both sides. Something in both your spirits: that place where independence and adventure can be both a path toward self-understanding and, let's be honest, a path toward escaping the self.

    We're always doing both, of course, all of us. On Monday we think we "get" ourselves, have "found" ourselves, but come Wednesday we are a mystery once more, as lost as we were at 14, at 24. It's dizzying. It's spectacular. It's forever.

    I do wonder how that comment landed with you, or how it resonates in the aftershocks (sorry—I've been in two earthquakes in 24 hours, so I'm thinking in geological metaphors). What I see there is someone who thinks you are more evolved than him, a frustrating dynamic on both sides, even if it's not true. I'm not sure that's ever true, with any two people, but perception is powerful.

    Minus my earliest romance—at 23—I have always been with people who see me as the more evolved one. Call that an arrogant statement, but I think it's accurate, much as I'd like to write otherwise, being all for equality in every conceivable way. Was this the dynamic I was chasing, without realizing it? Probably. Has there been some personal growth in asking that question? Certainly. Do I have any solid answers? Who knows?

    But I'm curious how that felt, what you're feeling, and hoping this Saturday is off to a nice start for you.
    Yes, this is rich soil. I am due to sleep and will expound on the morrow.

  9. #438
    Platinum Member IAmFCA's Avatar
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    I have been as one in mourning all day. Its tiresome. If I remember well, this nadir comes before a new start.

    I am confused by something, which is, I feel deeply healthy and happy and available for sustained joy. I am not there, though. I must be getting in my own way, and I don't understand that.

    It is a question for another day. Today has been sad and quiet and occupied by things I can do at home.
    ---

    Charley Pride said, "Sometimes it might make you cry but you'll feel better."

    ---

    You know what? I would like very much to go to the beach, by myself. I've no time to take off work, we are quite busy and my new hire is starting in earnest this week.

    Taking that desire as a cue, I think I will clear my evening calendar and treat my evenings as personal time.

  10. #439
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    Hope you get the time to yourself you need.

  11. #440
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IAmFCA
    I am confused by something, which is, I feel deeply healthy and happy and available for sustained joy. I am not there, though. I must be getting in my own way, and I don't understand that.

    It is a question for another day. Today has been sad and quiet and occupied by things I can do at home.
    Can sad and quiet be a form of joy? It's a question I mull over myself here and there, so I'll pose it here.

    Can joy be "sustained" if we don't allow space for certain feelings—sadness, confusion, regret, heartache—to fall under the umbrella of "joy" as opposed to being at odds with it? Can we ever really get "in our own way" if, as some of my yoga teachers whisper quoting books I've never actually read, we are always exactly where we're meant to be?

    Things to riff on as the heart beats and the gears turn.

    Love the idea of a solo beach trip, evenings of intentional solitude. Whenever I find myself in a version of your shoes I recommit hard and fast to dating—to dating myself.

    It can feel as clumsy and awkward and chore-like as those first dates with other people when you're "not ready" or "maybe ready," but without the weight of another's mystery. And without that weight the awkwardness and chore-like part dissipates more quickly, and that elusive thing—joy—edges in from unexpected angles.

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