Neighbour's awful kid... parent's perspective?

I'm just about at my wit's end with my neighbour's terrible toddler (~2 yrs old). They have been living in the apartment above us for 9 months and have floating floorboards. The toddler runs around and stomps, bangs/drops toys and SCREAMS like she's having an exorcism at all hours of the day and as late as 2am at night sometimes. She is rarely asleep before midnight. They also have a piano which she plays/punches (or possibly walks over) and yells (sings), though thankfully not at night.

I've put off dealing with the situation because I don't know how to do it kindly. I thought about writing them an anonymous note, complaining to strata... But even if they provide carpeting, we'd still hear her screaming. Also talking to them in person isn't an option for a few reasons.

Her parents usually ignore her tantrums for 10 mins before calmly trying to talk her down. Lately when she screams I have started playing loud music - one song in particular to create an obvious mental association with that song and tantrums. It actually started working to shut her up, but as soon as I turn the song down she fires up again. Problem is I don't know if it's teaching the kid that other people "exist" and can hear her, or if it's teaching her to think music is a reward for bad behaviour and if she screams she can get attention from the neighbours (a lot of her tantrums sound like attention-seeking ones)

I know I sound insensitive but how can I get these parents to be more considerate and control their child?

I've had guests comment on how they think she should be medicated/sedated, she's that out of control.

Uggh, it sucks having neighbors like that. I can totally relate. It's hard to be diplomatic sometimes.

Are you on speaking terms with these neighbors?

Empathy and the fact other people “ exist” is not understood on any great level with most children until almost the age of 3.

It is ONLY the parents you need to deal with. Anyone who suggests that a two-year-old should be medicated or sedated is a psycho . So I don’t know who your guests are but they sound scary .

I think though if the noise is such a problem it should be reported to the landlord . It doesn’t sound like the parents have a lot of control . However I would say 99.9% of two-year-olds do make a considerable amount of noise . ( I work in a daycare and have raised my own child ) so the situation is not ever going to be noise free . And a two-year-old shouldn’t be constrained from making noise all the time. Playing is a child’s work and how they learn .

No, I've never interacted with them directly, other than holding doors or making room in the stairwell. I wouldn't want to introduce myself. One, because I'm not supposed to have my cat here, and he meows loudly enough to be heard by them maybe once a fortnight - puts me at risk of retaliation if they notify my landlord. Also I don't think I can do it tactfully at this point, it's hard for me to speak assertively when I'm angry

No, I've never interacted with them directly, other than holding doors or making room in the stairwell. I wouldn't want to introduce myself. One, because I'm not supposed to have my cat here, and he meows loudly enough to be heard by them maybe once a fortnight - puts me at risk of retaliation if they notify my landlord. Also I don't think I can do it tactfully at this point, it's hard for me to speak assertively when I'm angry

Why don’t you control your cat and keep it from making noise?

I’m being facetious, but intentionally so. It sounds like *any* noise would carry through. Would you rather have loud gamers above you? Sex bunnies? A couple that fights all the time?

Empathy and the fact other people “ exist” is not understood on any great level with most children until almost the age of 3.

Yes, I thought that might be the case, that's why I'm worried that the mental association between tantrums and music might actually encourage her in some ways

It is ONLY the parents you need to deal with. Anyone who suggests that a two-year-old should be medicated or sedated is a psycho . So I don’t know who your guests are but they sound scary .

 

I think though if the noise is such a problem it should be reported to the landlord . It doesn’t sound like the parents have a lot of control . However I would say 99.9% of two-year-olds do make a considerable amount of noise . ( I work in a daycare and have raised my own child ) so the situation is not ever going to be noise free . And a two-year-old shouldn’t be constrained from making noise all the time. Playing is a child’s work and how they learn .

I don't mind her regular noises. I can hear her at the moment playing "peacefully" - she is a very vocal child and makes all sorts of "cute" sounds which are easy to block out. It's the fact that they let her run across floating floorboards until the early hours of the morning, and the uncontrolled tantrums that go on for 30-60 mins several times a day. I know toddlers make noise and get upset regularly, but this one is actually doing it to manipulate her parents (you can tell by the type of scream, which is very angry) and they're not doing a good job of managing her moods. The two neighbours beside us both have kids under 2 as well and we rarely hear them

Why don’t you control your cat and keep it from making noise?

I do

I’m being facetious, but intentionally so. It sounds like *any* noise would carry through. Would you rather have loud gamers above you? Sex bunnies? A couple that fights all the time?

Yes, noise does carry in this apartment building, and we're surrounded by neighbours that we rarely hear because we all acknowledge this and keep noise down. We rarely heard the last neighbours upstairs as well. So it's actually this particular family that is more problematic. And it's hard to know how to deal with it because adults can be asked to change, and if they don't, they can be evicted. Not the case with a child, hence the question

Yes, I thought that might be the case, that's why I'm worried that the mental association between tantrums and music might actually encourage her in some ways

 

 

 

I don't mind her regular noises. I can hear her at the moment playing "peacefully" - she is a very vocal child and makes all sorts of "cute" sounds which are easy to block out. It's the fact that they let her run across floating floorboards until the early hours of the morning, and the uncontrolled tantrums that go on for 30-60 mins several times a day. I know toddlers make noise and get upset regularly, but this one is actually doing it to manipulate her parents (you can tell by the type of scream, which is very angry) and they're not doing a good job of managing her moods. The two neighbours beside us both have kids under 2 as well and we rarely hear them

ALL toddlers try to manipulate. 2 years old is when they are trying to learn independence for the first time. Emotional regulation also not learned until MUCH MUCH later . Trying to regulate a toddler’s mood? Good luck. Kids are also all different.

Take it up with the landlord.

I would move, maybe into an adults only building or something..or a townhouse without someone above u..that would drive me nuts. I had kids but years ago, the parents probably haven’t a clue the noise theirs makes. As parents you kind of have blinders on..and ear plugs lol

I've lived in the Big 3 here in the US (currently living in NYC), so I understand apartment noise, whether it's a neighbor blasting bass 'til 3am or the people upstairs seemingly having installed a bowling alley in their unit. Currently, I pay out the ass and probably more than I can afford just to have the benefit of a downstairs dwelling and have a spot I don't have to worry about upstairs neighbor noise (have a group of college students up there -- awesome kids, but, well... your typical college kids). Needless to say, you have my sympathies.

That out of the way, this is kinda the life you get with apartment living. It's a roll of the dice every time you rent a unit. What I will say from experience is that an ounce of kindness (and a bottle of wine / rum) really does go a long way. That you've admittedly never interacted with them really hasn't done you any favors, and it will continue not to so long as you let the resentment fester. Some people quite frankly aren't aware of the extent what goes on in their apartment imposes itself on the neighboring units. And, while you and I would likely both be on board with screaming about how much it should be common sense, fact is it just often isn't.

Here are some angles that have worked for me:

- First and foremost, avoid directly implicating them. "It sounds like they really put nothing between the floorboards and my unit, and pretty much every step your little guy runs comes straight through to my bedroom." Something like that. Blames it more on the apartment design than them or their kid.

- Offer to pitch in for a remedy. Pulling out money from your own pocket to alleviate the disturbance someone else is causing sucks, but you gotta weigh it against your quality of life. Notice a spot in particular you hear the kid running around or pushing his bubble vac? Offer to pitch in for a decent runner over that area. Obviously no guarantees it completely soundproofs it, but splitting $80 on a rug could mean the difference between night and day. My current upstairs neighbors have a bass system, which I frankly think you forfeit the right to have if you rent an apartment, but I know they're not going to put it away, so the best I can do is ask them to keep it low and pay $45 for little platform designed to soak up the vibrations.

- Make friends. Ask the wife if she wants to come down for a glass of wine sometime whenever the husband's willing to take the kid off her hands. My guess is she'd welcome the break. Or, better, hear how bad the kid is upstairs while she's visiting and fully see where you're coming from.

- Also, make sure you've soundproofed your place as well. Seeing hardwood floors spanned across your unit might be lovely, but it also means it's that much surface for sound to bounce back and forth off of. Rugs are your friend. White noise as well.

Honestly, if the upstairs neighbors are paying their rent on time, your landlord prooooobably isn't going to give two ****s about the kid making your life hell. And it's not like the cops are going to show up to tell the parents to put their kid to bed. You'll also have a hard time convincing the housing authority your apartment is inhabitable due to a roving toddler upstairs. It's unfortunately, but you're kinda stuck trying to handle it personally and balancing whatever measures you take with the potential benefit to your quality of life.

All that said, I understand not every scene in life is out of an Edward James Olmos film and sometimes people simply aren't going to give a **** about you, and that's going to be that. Should push come to shove, it might be worth looking at your lease or talking to your landlord to see about ditching your security deposit for the benefit of ending your lease early.

Best of luck.

My neighbors above, across and next to me are elderly and super quiet so thankfully I don't have this problem. But other owners and tenants in my building were complaining about the noise from hardwood floors coming from their above neighbor. Thr HOA typed up a memo and placed it in everyone's door about being aware of the lower neighbors if you have HW floors and the memo suggested they lay an area rug or runners to help control the noise level.

The landlord should be speaking to these people about their loud kid. That's part of his/her job. Talk to that person and explain the situation. Confronting the parents of this kid yourself is not the way to handle it. Have you considered moving?

You have asked how to get the parents to be more considerate. I don't think you can change them. This is how they parent, and this is how the child is. You can only change yourself and/or your circumstances.

As j-man suggests, you can offer some money for them to purchase a rug, which *may* help.

You should talk with your upstairs neighbors first, before getting the landlord involved. You can certainly ask that they try to keep their toddler quiet after 10 pm. But- to be honest- you cannot keep a toddler quiet. If they want to throw a tantrum they will throw one.

I think, ultimately, that you will end up moving.

Thanks for the advice guys.

Moving really isn't an option. I am unemployed so it's difficult getting a lease in the first place, especially with overpriced real estate where I live. Also, my unit is a few minutes walk from my uni campus and a large part of my income comes from subletting the second bedroom to an international student. Moving would cost me a fortune and I would have to find a new subtenant and charge less than I can now

That being said, I know that tenancy law here means my landlord is responsible for ensuring that I have quiet and peaceful enjoyment of my home. But we have different landlords so it'll have to go through the building manager, who may or may not decide to do anything

I want to say, I understand that toddlers are hard to control in general, but there's a BIG difference between a regular toddler and this one. I've worked with children that young and helped look after my youngest brother full-time when he was an infant/toddler, and none of them were throwing tantrums this regularly. I have considered that she might have some serious mental health/emotional issues but I think that's far less likely than careless parents who are letting her nap from late afternoon into the evening so they get some quiet time for themselves - most toddlers are in bed by 7pm but this one starts making noise from 8-9pm until 12-2am. So I really think this is a parenting issue

There's a small part of me that wants to just blast music. After I did it today, I heard the mother raise her voice with the kid and she managed to stop her tantrum. I know this isn't an effective long term solution though and I feel bad for doing it

Blasting music will not solve the problem. In fact, it may alienate your other neighbors.

I think it is reasonable to talk with them and ask that they try to keep the noise down after 10 pm. Keep a record of your conversation(s). If it does not help, then contact the manager in writing. If that does not help, then contact their landlord in writing.

Agree. Being annoyed at the toddler and afraid of repercussions about your pet is preventing you from taking the proper course of action and instead creating more problems.

Blasting music will not solve the problem. In fact, it may alienate your other neighbors. I think it is reasonable to talk with them and ask that they try to keep the noise down after 10 pm. Keep a record of your conversation(s). If it does not help, then contact the manager in writing. If that does not help, then contact their landlord in writing.

I would talk to the landlord about the practicalities of the floorboards. I've had this issue in my building and in other buildings but with barking dogs not kids. A certain level of barking in my building is in violation of the lease so I've anonymously reported it as needed and one time the police came when another neighbor complained (because he probably left his dog alone for extended periods and he moved out) . My son was probably pretty loud at that age, I guess - I thought he was fairly typical and we had him outside a lot of the time, and we were mindful of our neighbors. He's 9 now and we never ever heard any complaints -moved here when he was 6 months old (and we have strict, hands on management) so i'm hoping that means we kept his volume to an acceptable level(and we have carpeting).

Consider that to you your cat who is not supposed to be there might make noise only occasionally but in reality it might be more and the timing of your cat's disruptive meowing might make it a problem even if it's not all the time. If you're going to complain I'd also be ready to move (and I know you said that's not really practical) because when I've complained about the barking dogs I had to reconfirm in my own mind that we were complying with all rules.

I would not confront the parents either because of the child's age and the behavior which is in the range of typical.