Need opinions on this very serious relationship situation

So, to being I am a man at the age of 24. About a year ago I began seeing a woman who was 32 (I was 23) who I had a crush on for a long time. We began by deciding it would be a playful relationship, where we would mainly hookup rather than seeing where we could go long term (even though we would go out to the movies, dinner, and hangout regualarly.) about 3 months into the relationship we shared some personal information, and she ended up going on vacation for a few weeks. I was a little nervous considering the personal information was pretty huge, and unfortunatley let the relationship dissolve by saying how busy I was with family and schooling (which I was considering my grandfather was dying of terminal cancer and I was taking care of him downstairs while going through my final semester of undergrad.) So when she came back and was very clearly still pursuing to hangout with me.. although I did still enjoy spending time with her and still felt feelings towards her, I decided to let it die due to my nervousness about wasting her time considering the age gap and not wanting to lead her on.

Since we stopped “seeing” each other, we have remained close and friends, considering we work together and still find a very personal connection with one another. Throughout the year we have both seen other people, and we always find comfort in talking to one another. About 6 months ago I was seeing a girl who was 21 and was pretty much my “ideal” girl in my mind years before.. however I just did not enjoy her nearly as much as the first woman.. and even remember totally blowing this girl off one night to just sit in the office and talk to my first woman (we will call her Dany).

At this point I start to realize that I may have stronger feelings for Dany, and begin to really think things over since I DID NOT want to just play with her heart again. After about 3 months of thinking it over in the back of my head and these feelings continuing to grow, I decided I did want to start things back up with her and *STUPIDLY* asked her one night in November if she would like to “play” again. She laughed and shrugged it off assuming I wasn’t joking and said it wasn’t a good idea. I decided to leave it alone and asked her a little less than a month later about it again. My thinking here was “if it worked the first time, it’ll work this time and I can do it right! I can actually take her out and make her realize I’m more than just play”.. however, again she shrugged it off as just “play” and although she was very close to hanging out with me one night, she requested time to think. After about 2 more weeks I approached her again and she said just play was not a good idea, so I requested that we hangout and talk things over.

So now she has agreed to talk and she comes to my house one night late after work and we talk. I tell her that I would like to seriously take her out on dates and start to see her... and she says that she wished she knew I meant this all along, as she thought I only wanted to hookup. She continues that although she would love to, and that although she still does like and have feelings for me, she has since started talking to another man (much older at the age of 47) for about 3 weeks now. Only HERE’S THE KICKER... this man has been in a relationship for 6 years and it currently living with his girlfriend and her children form a previous marriage. He however has told Dany that he is unhappy and wants to leave her, but feels obligated to stay with her since they live and care for the kids together. I guess he has begun telling Dany that he wants to leave his girlfriend for her, and is a genuinely nice guy when they hangout (considering I vouch for this girl fully and know she wouldn’t spend time with an ..) even though he is a total piece of for doing what he is doing and is hooking up with Dany while seeing his girlfriend still. (The girlfriend has no idea)

Dany tells me she will not hookup with me while she’s in a situation, as she will not be in two at once. I respect this and she says she would like to continue to hangout and spend time with me though as we have always been close friends. So we go to dinner and a movie later in the week and I stupidly try to hookup with her, which she resists but reiterates several times that it’s not because she doesn’t want to. So I continue to buy her flowers and try to prove to her how serious I am this time around, as I know the factors in play are the stability this other man has the potential to provide (since I’m younger and still searching for a career), my way of handling the relationship the first time around (and although I was ALWAYS respectful, endearing and fun, I abandoned it cause I was nervous) and my age gap considering I am much younger than she is.)

However we continue to see each other but since she told me about the other man and I realized there may be a chance of losing her forever, I have had a pit in my stomach where my heart fell deeply into and I have been a shell of myself. I have been hooked on girls before and been upset and all that, but NEVER like this.. and it was about this time that I realized I LOVE Dany.. like for real, head over heels, love her. So after a few not so good sleep nights and my appetite deminishing, I decided I’m going to tell her exactly how I feel.. because I’m thinking how could 1 month with some guys who’s cheating on his 6 year relationship compare to 6 years of building up trust with me and all of our past history together.. so I write this letter expressing everything I feel.. and I buy her a bouquet of flowers, and I have her over and we watch Perks of Being A Wallflower (which I love and she now loves) and the entire time her leg is on mine, and I’m rubbing my hand up and down her leg and she makes no motion that it’s bothering her.. but instead seems to like it. I shoot her looks through all the romantic parts and when it is over I turn to her and ask her to allow me to talk for a bit.

At this point I tell her everything, I tell her how stupid I was to throw what we had away, I tell her how much I have always cared for her and how my feelings towards her have only grew, I tell her all the things I love about her and even that I know I love her.. and after me pouring my heart out, she explains that she needs time to think. She says that she knows she likes me and our past proves that, but she is the kind of girl that only has eyes for one at a time.. and since she is already looking at this guy, then he is the one she is focused on right now.. even though she knows it’s a bit wrong, she feels for him and whatever he has told her and wants to give him a chance to see... she has not told any family or friends about it besides me, as she is private about love and mostl likely doesn’t want the backlash. So she tells me that I just have to be patient and give her some time to think. She again said that she wants to continue hanging out. She says I should stop with ya he romantic gestures, as she truly does not know which route she will take and does not want to lead me on, or have me hate her if I don’t get the anwser I want.. I tell her the only way I’ll stop is if she tells me we will never be together. She says she can never tell me that as tomorrow she may wake up and realize she’s making a huge mistake... she’s requested time as I said, and mentioned she could realize tomorrow or in two months.. (seemed like 2 months is the most shell take) but since right now she’s happy (even though she feels wrong sometimes) she’s going to continue with it...

At this point I’m split between heartbroken and hopeful.. mostly because I thought me pouring my heart out (which I know for a fact is truly how I feel) would turn the tables and have her choose me, I was surprised she continued to see this jerk.. however from an outsiders prospective I don’t see how this fling between them could last considering it was started in a bad place and those things RARLY work out.. therefor I feel that it’s only a matter of time before she realizes and gives me the last chance I’ll ever need. I hate feeling like the second choice but I almost feel like this is my punishment for letting her down the first time and not being the man she needed me to be.. I know for a fact I am crazy in love with this woman, and I’m sorry it took me so long to realize and say it... which is why even though it kills me, I will wait. I just want to make sure that she is weighing the options out between her two choices, rather than just waiting on this man to either make a move or make a mistake... which I can’t help but feel like is happening.

So now I ask your take guys, what do you think about all this? And I ask you please, try to keep the negativity out of your responses

Step out of this mess and be polite coworkers, rather than hooking up.

But I love this woman, I’m not just attempting to hookup anymore.

First of all you THINK you love her, you don't KNOW you love her. It takes time within a real relationship to know if you love someone romantically. I do believe you believe you love her but a great many of your decisions have come from nervousness, fear or insecurity.

It sounds like you are her back up plan.

Look at it this way. She is choosing a guy that is 15 years older than she is, in a relationship and clearly lying and cheating on his gf over you, a guy that is 8 years younger than she is, single and professes his love.

Time to step back and get on with your life. Don't be a back up plan and stop "hanging out" with her, it only hurts you.

Lost

I hate to say it, but you missed your chance because of your hangup about her age and because of your family problems. But I don't think you're hearing what she's saying.

When a woman turns down a guy that she bears no hostility to, they always say, let's be friends, or some variation of it. But make no mistake, she is turning you down, and all your begging is making you look immature. Women, especially older women, want men to be men and not little boys. You need to stop all this emotion and treat her as an equal and a friend. That's what she wants.

I think her relationship with this older married man is a signal that she doesn't want to be in a serious relationship. She likes the dates and the sex, but she doesn't want the in between stuff of relationships. The old guy is a "safe" date. She's not on the same relationship wavelength as you are. You want a girlfriend, she just wants someone to take her out.

I would tell you to cool it with the emotional stuff. Perhaps you should rethink about hanging out with her if you've going to be staring at her longingly. Go to the movies or watch TV with her, but don't beg anymore. Hang in there and see what happens when she breaks up with the married guy. But keep in mind that I don't think she's looking to settle down with anyone any time soon. But you never know.

So you believe if I give her the space and back off, playing it cool, there may be a possibility in the future?

It doesn’t sound like sees a relationship in her future any time soon. I don’t think anything you do is going to change what she wants.

But she’s staying with this man in the hopes he’ll leave his girl to start a relationship with her.. and told me if I brought this up before she met him a month ago she would have said yes

Someone who is genuinely emotionally available would not be hanging around in the kind of situation you describe; it's fulfilling a need for her. Unfortunately, you need to deal with the situation as it actually is, and although she may be telling you she'd have said 'Yes' if you'd brought it up before... she could always change her mind and be with you... IF SHE ACTUALLY WANTED TO.

You need to look at what people do, not what they say, and the fact remains that she is choosing to be with someone else. Who knows whether their relationship will work out? Or, if it didn't work out, that she would choose you?

It's not so much that it would be weak to 'wait', but it would likely be a huge waste of time and emotional energy which could be spent on finding someone who has the same relationship goals as you do. It's highly unlikely to be this woman.

Duplicate post:

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I know you really want someone to tell you that if you just keep playing Romantic Guy she'll choose you. But you've asked her more than once and she's said "no" each and every time.

I wouldn't call it "weak" to wait, but you're waiting for something that most likely isn't going to happen. So, in essence, you're choosing to stay stuck standing in the same place while she (and the rest of the world) carries on with their lives. I don't recommend this.

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Duplicate post:

https://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547934

 

I know you really want someone to tell you that if you just keep playing Romantic Guy she'll choose you. But you've asked her more than once and she's said "no" each and every time.

 

I wouldn't call it "weak" to wait, but you're waiting for something that most likely isn't going to happen. So, in essence, you're choosing to stay stuck standing in the same place while she (and the rest of the world) carries on with their lives. I don't recommend this.

I don't think he's listening. By the way, I had really bad day yesterday, can I PM you? I don't want to go into it here.

I’m not listening.. I’m sorry guys and I appreciate the opinions, but I feel that if you really believe, things will work out. Otherwise my hope goes down too and I just can’t do that. But thank you all for the honesty

I feel that if you really believe, things will work out.

If we were really able to change another person's thoughts and actions by the power of our love/dedication/devotion the world would be a very different place; though the delusion that we can is a very common one. People we adore don't adore us back. People we want to stay, leave. People we adore fall in love with people we think are total ****s, and there's nothing we can do about it.

The most effective way of getting past this is to embrace your loss of hope, and all the grief that goes with it, and let it go.

I’m not listening.. I’m sorry guys and I appreciate the opinions, but I feel that if you really believe, things will work out. Otherwise my hope goes down too and I just can’t do that. But thank you all for the honesty

Well maybe you are! They will only come back if they want to. You are hanging on to false hopes. Don't sweat it, so am I. We need support to do no contact. The best thing about it is we start it thinking its the best way to optimise our chances of getting them back. We think that for a while. Hell, I'm thinking it still. But after a while we realise it was the best option to move on. We have relapses, for sure. Just don't contact the ex. My psycho ex (friends now, surprisingly) told me to "tell her to f*** off and she'll come back eventually. It worked when you did it to me". I kind of trust her judgement on this.

OP, think about it:

She is so into this other guy she's turning down the opportunity to be with someone who is crazy about her and right in front of her. She isn't into you the way you are into her, unfortunately. You're nice company for her and she cares about you, but the feelings you have for her are not mutual.

You can't wish someone into loving you back. Romantic gestures won't change that; she already knows what you want but she's foolishly putting herself on hold for this other guy because he is who she really wants.

I’m not listening.. I’m sorry guys and I appreciate the opinions, but I feel that if you really believe, things will work out. Otherwise my hope goes down too and I just can’t do that. But thank you all for the honesty

Life doesn't that work that way, my friend.

If that were even remotely true, we wouldn't have these forums about Getting Back Together or Healing After a Break-up to begin with. Things don't always work out just because you believe they will.

Maybe not in your past cases, but I’ve been surprised before. I’m not saying I won’t be open to moving on, or that I won’t seize another opportunity if it comes along.. but until then I’m gonna be as optimistic as possible. All I can hope is instead of y’all trying to change my view, you see this and it helps to change yours. Peace and love everyone!

Entourage focus on the things you can control. Remember that the more you try to pull her towards you, the more she'll try to push you away. I was 21 dating a 31 year old at one time, and what ended up breaking us apart was me trying to force her to commit and exposing myself for the young immature person I was. (And still am to a degree.) A few years after we split, I realized that the age gap would have endangered our longevity in addition to our family goals. It's rare for a younger male to succeed with an older female.

You have a gigantic disadvantage over the 47 year old gentleman. In a lot of women's eyes he's much more attractive, because he's likely well established in his community, earns considerably more money, has acquired more resources etc......in short, our evolution has guided women to be more attracted to his type because it gives her genes the best chance of proliferating. It's subconscious, but it's what happens.

Optimism is a great quality to have, and so is realism. Don't let optimism become idealism. A couple of the people that have commented in this thread are very intelligent, and I have read their advice and thoughts and learned a lot from them (Looking at you especially Ms. Canuck and Lost&Hurt.) You don't have to follow their advice, but you should at least consider it, they're far more experienced in life than you and I. An old saying states that "We trade our youth for wisdom." Their advice comes from a place of wisdom and experience. In fact, one day you and I will likely be giving our 20 year old children this same advice, and you will probably be very frustrated if they fail to listen. Good luck no matter which decisions you make, both in this situation and in life.