Was it considered normal to hit a wife years ago (to ''control her verbal outbursts'')?

Today (even in my country) this is assault and a woman can still report him. However, my country is still working on enforcing stricter laws against spousal abuse. In the US, that's definitely assault and battery and worth jail time.I was born in 1987 and would like to share a couple incidences and yes they are real:

As a kid I've been raised in Miami, Fl and my parents were Peruvian immigrants. I've been living in Peru for 10 years now (not by choice though) but that's another story. Getting back to the topic, during my childhood my parents would sometimes get into terrible arguments. My mother would proceed towards a verbal ranting with insults and my father would get physical.

- One time he literally hit her on her back with a belt in anger. She kept crying, telling him to stop while he kept yelling (in Spanish) ''Are you going to stop saying nonsense''. She had a couple belt welts on her back for a week or so. That was that and it was considered a private event between the 3 of us. My brother wasn't born at the time.

- Another time (I was in 4th grade and it was the day before Halloween), he smacked her on the bottocks with his heavy sandal a bunch of times for the same reason. She was flying into a verbal ranting, he kept yelling at her to shut up, she didn't and he reacted physically. One whole side of her bottom was purple and swollen. That was it for the day and the following day, my parents acted like nothing happened and they still celebrated Halloween with me.

A couple other incidents where he started dragging her my the hair, hit her with a very small basket over the head, shoving her, or smacking her bottom with his hands for the same reason: He wanted her to shup up (don't insult him nor yell) during arguments and would give her 3 warning before getting physically with her.

Needlees to say I believe there is never an excuse to get physical with anyone unless it's a deadly (life-death) situation or you're sparring in self-defense classes. No one deserves to get hit just because you don't like the words they're saying. Honestly though was that normal even during my time to hit a wife with a belt or any household objects just because ''oh she has a bad temper, is back-talking, keeps contradicting me''???

I would not say it was considered “ normal. “ I would say it happen . And it still happens today . But none of it’s normal .

I would not say it was considered “ normal. “ I would say it happen . And it still happens today . But none of it’s normal .

Many articles address this here's an excerpt and link:

The cultural acceptance of spousal abuse can be so pervasive that in some countries, large majorities of women say it's acceptable. In Rwanda, 96 percent of women say the practice can be justified, according to the World Values Survey. About two-thirds of women in India and South Africa feel the same way. The attitude is also held by large shares of women in countries across the religious and cultural spectra — China, Egypt, Iraq, Nigeria, Peru, the Philippines and Uzbekistan, to cite a few.

While the world and attitudes toward this kind of stuff is changing and thankfully so, yes, in some cultures even to this day, a husband using physical discipline is considered normal and a private matter within the marriage. When I started to read your post, first thought was South American countries are known for this.....and you are from Peru. It may be less normal nowadays and in metro areas and among educated people, however, get out into the backwoods villages and you'll still see a lot of this. Your parents' behavior wasn't unique and no, they likely didn't see it the way that you do. They acted normal after those incidents because to them it probably was.

It's always been physical abuse and assault. It's just that people don't look the other way anymore.

Wiseman2,

Thank you for the information. It's a terrible reality that many women are still justifying it. Abusers make me feel disgusting. I'll never know that's the feeling of abusing someone and making them cry.

It's always been physical abuse and assault. It's just that people don't look the other way anymore.

Well it is hard to not be normalized when we grow up with it.

I have never seen my dad hit my mom but I would routinely get the crap beat out of me from my dad and sister. I never even realized it was not normal until I was in my 20s and I am a fairly objective and introspective person.

The sad thing is I can honestly tell you to this day my family saw nothing wrong with it. We lived in a rough area and my dad and sister were genuinely convinced that they were "toughening me up" so I could survive.

It didn't stop until I hit puberty and started to stand up for myself. But before it got better it got a lot lot worse.

I also believe in strong physical self defense skills. But instead of beating the crap out of my children I actually spare lightly with them (my daughter not my son, who is 3 months old). My daughter loves our practice. I am very careful with her but she is learning things well.

My dad also came from a extremely violent family (all his father). Not trying to justify it, just explaining how he saw nothing wrong with punching me as long as it wasn't in the face. He was nearly killed at 2 because his father smashed a liquor bottle on his head, fracturing his skull.

I love my dad but he is crazy. Even now he will occasionally try to jump me. My sister did too a few years ago and I just called the police. They are also both bipolar.

I was also born in 1987 and have lived in the US my entire life. Just fyi.

One thing that is interesting and kind of surprising is that intimate partner violence is most common in lesbian relationships and least common among gay males.

It is a myth that wife-beating was ever "OK"--in this culture, anyway. It's been explicitly outlawed in most Western countries since at least the 1800's. President Teddy Roosevelt actually proposed bringing back the whipping post for men who beat their wives. He didn't want to jail them because then the men wouldn't be able to make money with which to support her. Also, in England and France men who were beaten by their wives were actually punished by the community for allowing her to do that to him.

Unfortunately, it sounds as if you grew up in a toxic household--your mother was verbally abusive toward your father, and your father was physically abusive toward your mother. If you haven't already had it I think it would be a good idea to get some therapy to ensure that you don't carry that kind of toxicity into your own relationships.

I appreciate your advice Krankor but I've already solved my issues. I will not ever tolerate a bf, much less my future husband making the slightest gesture of aggression. My long-distance relationship is ok and we're both against abuse.

As a kid I made my own private vow to never let a man hit me and that I wouldn't ever accept it.

I appreciate your advice Krankor but I've already solved my issues. I will not ever tolerate a bf, much less my future husband making the slightest gesture of aggression. My long-distance relationship is ok and we're both against abuse.

 

As a kid I made my own private vow to never let a man hit me and that I wouldn't ever accept it.

I think being "against abuse" is a small part of it. It's spending time together and knowing in real life, in person, how you each deal with being hangry/angry/frustrated/etc. when you're with the other person. And there's a range -some people think raising one's voice even if the words are fine is "yelling" and others are totally fine with arguing and yelling at each other, then getting it out and making up romantically -and it doesn't feel abusive and it is not abusive -it's just letting off steam and respecting certain boundaries (no name calling, etc). Physical abuse is another category.

So yes it's positive that you both are "against abuse" but for me that would be way too general if it was about getting involved in serious relationship.

One thing that is interesting and kind of surprising is that intimate partner violence is most common in lesbian relationships and least common among gay males.

citation needed.

The research I've found is that same sex relationship have a higher rate of reported domestic violence then hetero relationships. Nothing at all about lesbians being more violent and gay men being less.

OP, I think you need to consider that while abuse is generally considered bad and taboo, corporal punishment isn't necessarily viewed the same way and is very much alive and well in many place and cultures around the world.

In fact, within your own family, I would bet good money that your parents would both be very strongly against abuse, but do not see their own actions as falling into that category. Meaning that if your father had a bad day at work and came home and simply beat up your mother just because, she would consider it abuse and would have left him. The behavior that you describe, with her yelling out of control abuse in his face and refusing to stop and him resorting to corporal punishment isn't actually abuse at all in their mind and interpretation of the situation. This subject, in many instances isn't so black and white.

I'd also be concerned with your certainty about your LDR. How well do you really know him? Have you seen him angry in person? Nobody in their right mind will tell you that they think abuse is OK. No abusive person is ever going to admit to being abusive.

The reason I'm raising these distinctions, OP, is as food for thought for you in terms of how you vet a potential partner. He may well have this distinction in mind as to what constitutes abuse and what is justified and not seen as abuse. You might want to consider asking more subtle questions. That said, seeing someone truly angry is the only way to know how they handle their anger.

Just to be clear, I am not condoning physical violence of any kind. However, we do live in a world where not everyone sees violence as violence.

OP, I think you need to consider that while abuse is generally considered bad and taboo, corporal punishment isn't necessarily viewed the same way and is very much alive and well in many place and cultures around the world.

In fact, within your own family, I would bet good money that your parents would both be very strongly against abuse, but do not see their own actions as falling into that category. Meaning that if your father had a bad day at work and came home and simply beat up your mother just because, she would consider it abuse and would have left him. The behavior that you describe, with her yelling out of control abuse in his face and refusing to stop and him resorting to corporal punishment isn't actually abuse at all in their mind and interpretation of the situation. This subject, in many instances isn't so black and white.

I understand your point but isn't corporal punishment in a marriage something that both are aware of and had a prior discussion about it (when to do it, when not to, how hard, when is it too much, etc) before even marrying that person. There was no prior discussion at all the very first time he went physical on her, which was a year after they got married; he pushed her out of bed in anger during an argument.

Clearly in those incidents I've mentioned, my mother was crying and telling him to stop, saying (in Spanish) ''Ok, alright stop hitting me, stop it''. That right there doesn't sound like consentment to me.

My father thinks abusing a woman is when you beat her up so badly that she's missing teeth or gets punches to the point of disfigurement and needs to seriously go to the hospital. However, he doesn't think slapping a woman if she backtalks or doing what he did was/is abuse.

I'd also be concerned with your certainty about your LDR. How well do you really know him? Have you seen him angry in person? Nobody in their right mind will tell you that they think abuse is OK. No abusive person is ever going to admit to being abusive.

 

The reason I'm raising these distinctions, OP, is as food for thought for you in terms of how you vet a potential partner. He may well have this distinction in mind as to what constitutes abuse and what is justified and not seen as abuse. You might want to consider asking more subtle questions. That said, seeing someone truly angry is the only way to know how they handle their anger.

 

Just to be clear, I am not condoning physical violence of any kind. However, we do live in a world where not everyone sees violence as violence.

citation needed.

 

The research I've found is that same sex relationship have a higher rate of reported domestic violence then hetero relationships. Nothing at all about lesbians being more violent and gay men being less.

This is according to the CDC's 2010 findings on domestic assault.

Unfortunately most jurisdictions are still using the debunked "Duluth Model" for dealing with domestic violence, which posits that all domestic violence is a matter of "patriarchal terrorism." The fact is, domestic violence really isn't a gendered issue. This model ignores male victims of domestic violence and female on female victims.

citation needed.

 

The research I've found is that same sex relationship have a higher rate of reported domestic violence then hetero relationships. Nothing at all about lesbians being more violent and gay men being less.

It is not more common in lesbian relationships but it does follow it much more closely in heterosexual couples and the incidence of violence is much lower in gay (men) relationships. This is what the best research does seem to show but none of it is very good because it is difficult to do good science when the issue is so politicized.

Gay long term relationships tend to look very different than lesbian relationship, and lesbian relationships tend to look a lot more like hetero relations and also mimic violence patterns.

It is very difficult to get good information on the cause of violence because we are actually not interested as a society about what causes violence because it is seen as somehow condoning it.

Personally I believe a very strong biological component where it follows "mate guarding" behavior. Obviously mostly a problem for men as they have parental uncertainly which women for obvious reasons do not. (Lets call it type 1)

The other type of violence simply comes down to poor communications skills both men and women are well represented, and you could call it type 2.

Gay men relationships simply do not have type 1 violence, just the type 2. For some reason because lesbians do have children biologically there is some mimicking of mate guarding behavior that you see in straight couples. The violence is surprisingly high and you can find this information online.

As far as the OP's question specifically, no it was never considered normal to hit a wife, it was however seen as comical for a wife to hit a husband, but attitudes are changing slowly. Mainly because the female body is seen as something sacred while the male body generally is not. That is because that there are many sacred notions around where human life is created. What has changed mostly I think is the notion of family itself as something sacred. Family used to be seen by extension where human life is created where it can nurture and grow, we don't think that way anymore, right now it can mean anything. People were far more reluctant to interfere in the family years ago, but not anymore now that sacred notion of the family has disappeared. The good news is nowadays it is far easier for family members who are abused to get help, but there are trade offs too.

When I get a chance I'll do a research on DV within gay/lesbian relationship. For the meantime, let's focus on my specific topic regarding a husband thinking he's in the rights to hit his wife with household objects without even talking to her in advance at all and isn't even listening to his wife's cries nor pleads. If a bf or a future husband suddenly start hitting me in anger with a belt during an argument he wouldn't be in my life anymore.

lukeb it's good news that nowadays more abused women are seeking help and their family members are getting involved as it should be. If I ever have kids, I want to teach them that hitting isn't ok at all.