Does she like me? Another second date confusion...

Met another girl online and we went on a date at Sunday (this is the 7th girl I go on a first date with for the past few months, I suck at dating). Everything seemed fine, I enjoyed the date and I think she enjoyed it too. I let her do the talking, as usual, and she was very open.

Sent her a message the next day to tell her I'd had a great time and would like to see her again when possible. She told me she was glad about it and that she wasn't sure that I'd enjoyed the date. She said that she'd done most of the talking and she barely knows anything about me so she'd thought I was bored and didn't like the date/her. I reassured her that I'd really enjoyed the date and told her I am a good listener and had really been interested in all the stories she'd shared with me.

I know that, as a man, I should not talk so much about myself and let the woman do most of the talking and just show some genuine interest and appreciation, which I follow strictly. I don't like talking much about myself and really enjoy stories women share with me and try to guide them to open up. I think it works well for me but I guess I am not brave enough and don't push things forward on the first date, maybe I give some kind of a friendly vibe instead of more masculine one?

We maintained contact for couple of days and agreed for a date on Wednesday. We went for an evening walk outside and spent almost 2 hours walking and talking. I tried to be more physical and slipped my arm through hers and we walked like that for some time after which I embraced her fully and continued walking that way.

The weather got colder and we decided to have some drinks at a restaurant. We continued talking there (another 2 hours) and I held her by her hand most of the time, caressing it, leaning toward her and that kind of stuff. I tried to kiss her once while I leaned over her slowly but she turned slightly sideways. While we were walking toward my car afterwards I said to her with a gentle smile "Would you give me a kiss" and went for it. I kissed her but I guess she was a little surprised and didn't seem enthusiastic about it.

I drove her home and we talked in the car for half an hour while sitting in it in front of her house. I was holding her hand again, most of the time, while talking and fondling it. We parted ways with me leaning over her for another kiss which was even less enthusiastic, I think.

I got home and messaged her if she too got home safely (a little joke as I drove her home). We exchanged couple of messages but she seemed more aloof to me.

Now I don't know what to do and what to think at all Do I message her again these days? Or do I wait for her to contact me? Why didn't she mind me touching and hugging her for the whole evening but not like me kissing her? I'm confused and would appreciate all kinds of advices

I honestly have no idea, but it sounds like you came on a bit too strong maybe. Kissing on the second date for some people might be fine, but for a lot of people might be way too soon... Since the second date is too early to know her comfort level/receptiveness, I'd be leaving that for a fourth or fifth date. She let you hold her hand, but she didn't make any moves to further the physical contact

I'd way prefer to get to know someone as an individual rather than diving into a physical connection at the same time. It tends to cloud judgement and make it harder to tell if you like someone for who they are, or just like the attention. So maybe she hadn't decided yet whether there's enough common ground to continue dating (and thus getting physically involved) and so you've go in with a little too much ... enthusiasm

Hmmm....it is sometimes difficult to figure out exactly what a girl is thinking at a given moment....what I would do is just wait for her to contact and message you....as soon as she does, set up another date....if she doesn't contact you and it has been 1 week, then try reaching out to her.....

That's at least what I would do....

I would say going for a kiss was a great idea and nothing wrong with that after a second date....As long as she didn't just give you the cheek and kissed back...then I would say that is fine....She may have been a bit surprised...but that is normal....

Oh, also when asking women questions etc....it's also good to try and see if there is anything in common...At the end of the day, I think a woman would want to feel some kind of connection where there are similar interests, hobbies, values, etc....

Anyway, I think having 7 dates is just a few months is great! Some guys cannot even get a few dates in an entire year....

I honestly have no idea, but it sounds like you came on a bit too strong maybe. Kissing on the second date for some people might be fine, but for a lot of people might be way too soon... Since the second date is too early to know her comfort level/receptiveness, I'd be leaving that for a fourth or fifth date. She let you hold her hand, but she didn't make any moves to further the physical contact

 

I'd way prefer to get to know someone as an individual rather than diving into a physical connection at the same time. It tends to cloud judgement and make it harder to tell if you like someone for who they are, or just like the attention. So maybe she hadn't decided yet whether there's enough common ground to continue dating (and thus getting physically involved) and so you've go in with a little too much ... enthusiasm

I've always thought that I am too "soft" on dates and don't push things physically and just give a "friendly" vibe. You make me think about that, but I am not some macho man or some PUA so I think I am a little scared and not so comfortable when going out on a date. I can't see myself coming too strong for a girl, but who knows... I think your second paragraph is spot on! I will take notice of it as I seem to put the cart before the horse...

Hmmm....it is sometimes difficult to figure out exactly what a girl is thinking at a given moment....what I would do is just wait for her to contact and message you....as soon as she does, set up another date....if she doesn't contact you and it has been 1 week, then try reaching out to her.....

 

That's at least what I would do....

 

I would say going for a kiss was a great idea and nothing wrong with that after a second date....As long as she didn't just give you the cheek and kissed back...then I would say that is fine....She may have been a bit surprised...but that is normal....

 

Oh, also when asking women questions etc....it's also good to try and see if there is anything in common...At the end of the day, I think a woman would want to feel some kind of connection where there are similar interests, hobbies, values, etc....

 

Anyway, I think having 7 dates is just a few months is great! Some guys cannot even get a few dates in an entire year....

She did kiss me back two times but it was a little bit awkward and she was not enthusiastic about it, while holding her hang and hugging her when walking together seemed to be much more appreciated. I don't ask questions just for the sake of it, I try to understand a woman in details and there is a common ground between us. Our communication flows naturally and I made her laugh a lot. I didn't say that thing with the 7 dates to show off, I just wonder how many dates I would have to go to in order to find a woman which I like (and she likes me, too). I guess it would be 70, not 7...

Yeah, I disagree that kissing on a second date is too soon It's not like we are all 2 years old in kindergarten....

Well, your story sounds very much like something I’ve experienced as a girl, so I can tell you what it may have been like for her.

Met a guy who on paper should have been great, similar interests, educated, attractive, etc. Should have been fun, right? Well, when we met, he didn’t talk that much, either listened to my stories, and every now and then asked a follow up question, but not really contribute anything from his side unless I asked him some things (in case he’s just not a big talker). Well, we had some laughs, but eventually it felt like I was the entertainment, and he was either boring (doesn’t have anything to tell about himself), or uninterested (doesn’t bother telling me stuff, because he wasn’t enough into it to care). I met up with him to get to know him better, which is hard since not much came from his side, and I already know my own stories, so I just tried to make the best of it. But eventually, I was sure to never hear from him again, and I wasn’t planning on contacting either.

He maybe saw that different and was very interested in meeting again, so I gave him a second chance in case he was just a bit shy. Well, despite him being a bit more outgoing, it again was similar with me doing the most of the talking. We took a walk, and at some point he tried to kiss me, with me turning away. This was because I didn’t feel like I knew him (and I didn’t feel like kissing a stranger), he was boring/uninterested so I lost my interest in him too, and it seemed like he tried salvage the mediocre situation into kissing, but no thanks.

So yeah, you’re right, just talking about yourself is bad. But just (or mostly) listening makes you seem boring or uninterested, which is also counterproductive. Better: Be engaged in her stories, ask about them and relate them to your own experiences, or maybe tell a fun and interesting story about yourself she could relate to. If they meet you, they want to get to know you, and not just talk about themselves, so give them a chance to get to know you. Also, if you didn’t seem engaged and then get physical, it seems like you just “endured” her and now try to get her into bed, which also doesn’t seem very attractive if she’s looking for a relationship.

Hope that helps you in any way!

Yeah, I disagree that kissing on a second date is too soon It's not like we are all 2 years old in kindergarten....

Maybe, but also it depends on context and appropriate timing. If there's a clear cut romantic vibe and you find yourselves in a fairly isolated place (not in public or at a bar) then sure, go for a kiss. But if it just comes out in the middle of conversation in a social setting, maybe you should have waited for a more appropriate moment, like a quick kiss goodbye and leave it at that

A little update: I decided I can't keep myself in the dark and texted her.

-Hi, ! I am left with the impression that you didn't like the date. Do you think it would be our last one?

-Hi! I don't think it would be. I guess I need some time to get to know you

-I see. I just thought you don't like me because you weren't too enthusiastic about kissing me last night.

-Well, like you said, I am a strange person

-I don't worry about you being an odd person. I just don't want to invest in a situation where I'm not wanted by the other person

-You are different. I need time. I'm sorry if you aren't ok with that. We can stop seeing each other if you want to

-I AM ok with that. I just wanted to know your opinion because of my previous bitter experience. I don't want to put you under pressure. Of course we will see each other. I hope "different" is used in a good sense

-Of course it is

How do I come up with such a BS? I am reading it and laughing at myself. Pressuring a girl, exposing my insecurities... What a mess

A little update: I decided I can't keep myself in the dark and texted her.

 

-Hi, ! I am left with the impression that you didn't like the date. Do you think it would be our last one?

-Hi! I don't think it would be. I guess I need some time to get to know you

-I see. I just thought you don't like me because you weren't too enthusiastic about kissing me last night.

-Well, like you said, I am a strange person

-I don't worry about you being an odd person. I just don't want to invest in a situation where I'm not wanted by the other person

-You are different. I need time. I'm sorry if you aren't ok with that. We can stop seeing each other if you want to

-I AM ok with that. I just wanted to know your opinion because of my previous bitter experience. I don't want to put you under pressure. Of course we will see each other. I hope "different" is used in a good sense

-Of course it is

 

How do I come up with such a BS? I am reading it and laughing at myself. Pressuring a girl, exposing my insecurities... What a mess

You're a hot mess!! Lol

Yikes, I'd block you after that. If she doesn't, she wants to see you again.

This to me, if a guy said these things, would make me run simply because I'd think

he'd never trust in me because of baggage he's carrying from being bitter.

Which just happened to me, and I should have gone the other way.

Lighten up a bit. Is it possible she's just shy? Mentioning thr kissing thing was not such a good idea.

I would take that as needy and not feeling confident, which would turn me off.

That's what I am saying, too. The interesting thing is that I became insecure and needy after my last breakup (an year ago). Prior to that I couldn't care less about such things... But after that breakup, I was shattered and all my confidence and self-esteem went through the window. The bitter experience I talked about was with a girl which I went out with several times in the summer. I didn't want the same thing to happen with this girl now, so I wanted to ask her (no matter how stupid that was) if she likes me as I really don't want to go on 5 or 6 dates again just to be told that she doesn't want a relationship or something like that... I have to adapt to every girl as they are all different, but I don't think I would ever go out on 4-5 dates again without getting a kiss or I risk being rejected again. I prefer being rejected earlier but to have my intentions clear and when I have not invested much time and emotions into a particular girl. The things should happen naturally and effortlesSly.

I'm kind of scratching my head here...... Where do you get this idea that the woman should do all the talking on the date? A conversation, by definition is a two way street. Otherwise you are just having someone talk at you. I'd find that kind of a date exhausting, as did she. I mean she is basically having to carry the whole date. Most, unless they are truly the chatty Cathy type who just love the sound of their own voice, will become tired and frustrated with that.

The whole being aggressive physically or pushing physically....again where do you get these ideas from? As a woman, I'm cringing just reading this. Having been on the receiving end of this kind of unwelcome pushiness from insecure guys, I can tell you that it very much spells the end unless he is willing and able to back off. She didn't invite your attempts to kiss. In fact, after the cool reception the first time, you should have gotten clued in enough to stop. She was clearly not comfortable and not on the same page as you. Patience and respect will get you much further on dates than pushing. Instead of acting on these wild ideas in your head, maybe try to be more present in what is actually happening in reality and how she is or isn't responding.

Sorry but you really are a hot mess on dates and they sound miserable from a woman's perspective. Keep conversations two way. Strive to be more socially normal. Keep your hands to yourself initially and let the woman actually give you a green light for more. If you are mistaken in that green light, then back off. It doesn't mean that she doesn't like you, just that it's too much too soon.

That's what I am saying, too. The interesting thing is that I became insecure and needy after my last breakup (an year ago). Prior to that I couldn't care less about such things... But after that breakup, I was shattered and all my confidence and self-esteem went through the window. The bitter experience I talked about was with a girl which I went out with several times in the summer. I didn't want the same thing to happen with this girl now, so I wanted to ask her (no matter how stupid that was) if she likes me as I really don't want to go on 5 or 6 dates again just to be told that she doesn't want a relationship or something like that... I have to adapt to every girl as they are all different, but I don't think I would ever go out on 4-5 dates again without getting a kiss or I risk being rejected again. I prefer being rejected earlier but to have my intentions clear and when I have not invested much time and emotions into a particular girl. The things should happen naturally and effortlesSly.

No you should not adapt. You need to figure who you are and be that seek a girl who is into that. Adapting is pretending and engaging in deception just to get her to date you and it will end badly for you every single time, because eventually the real you will come out and it's not what she signed up for, so she'll dump you and move on.

You need to get over this concept of rejection. Rejection is as normal as breathing. It's a huge part of life. People are supposed to reject each other for various reasons. You too. If she isn't the kind of a person you want, the you need to reject as well. The purpose of dating is to get to know a person and if they aren't right for you, you move on. This kind of hyper attachment and 5-6 date already destroyed your confidence? Work on your perceptions of dating and rejection.

Your intentions are crystal clear from the moment you ask her for a date. Nobody goes on dates looking for new friends. They are looking for a romantic connection. Maybe it will be there or maybe not.

If you are so desperate to make it work that you give the impression that any warm body will do, sane women will run away screaming from you. Embrace rejection both ways OP. Seek the right woman, not just any woman willing. Understand that she is doing the same. Being rejected isn't a commentary on your worth and value, only that you are different from whatever she is looking for. It's like having a favorite flavor of ice cream. Maybe she is looking for chocolate mint and you are rocky road. It's not bad, just not what she wants.

It wasn't necessary to spit out so much info, at least half of which is totally wrong, because you didn't read (or didn't want to read and understand??) what exactly I've said, but I will try to be more clear. Just calm down...

I've never said the woman should talk all of the time, but MOST of the time, which is what happens usually with me. We had a conversation and she was not exhausted at all - 5 hours felt like a minute. I don't know where you come up with that BS from...

I wasn't so aggressive physically, I started with a light touch and progressed through the evening so I thought a kiss would be appropriate ending of things. Not for the sake of it, I really wanted to do it.

By adapting I meant I should learn to see what the particular girl is all about and not to think she would string me along like some other girl from my past, for example. Not to assume she will be like girl X or Y, which I've been with. Try not to project your thoughts on me... I don't want to deceive anyone.

What's wrong with my concept of rejection? Don't get your point... I don't run away from rejection, it hurts but it happens. In fact out of these 7 dates I mentioned, I didn't like 3 of the girls so it's not like that any warm body will do. Try to not be so judging...

She told me she was glad about it and that she wasn't sure that I'd enjoyed the date. She said that she'd done most of the talking and she barely knows anything about me so she'd thought I was bored and didn't like the date/her. I reassured her that I'd really enjoyed the date and told her I am a good listener and had really been interested in all the stories she'd shared with me.

Understand the feedback she's giving you; you need to be more engaged on dates and show some more interest. You can't be so detached.

I know that, as a man, I should not talk so much about myself and let the woman do most of the talking and just show some genuine interest and appreciation, which I follow strictly.

That's absolutely incorrect. As a man, it's your job to lead the interaction. If you let her just run off on whatever tangent she wants to run off on, you have no idea where things are going to go; let alone go in a romantic direction. Plus, you have to give her a reason to be interested in you other than as just a sounding board for her to talk at. You must inject yourself and the topic of yourself into the conversation.

I don't like talking much about myself and really enjoy stories women share with me and try to guide them to open up.

You're way too much to the extreme of concentrating the date on the girl. You have to find yourself interesting and you need to train yourself to want to talk about your experiences. This takes practice.

I think it works well for me but I guess I am not brave enough and don't push things forward on the first date, maybe I give some kind of a friendly vibe instead of more masculine one?

Emotional and physical escalation are separate and distinct issues from concentrating too much on her.

We maintained contact for couple of days and agreed for a date on Wednesday. We went for an evening walk outside and spent almost 2 hours walking and talking. I tried to be more physical and slipped my arm through hers and we walked like that for some time after which I embraced her fully and continued walking that way.

 

The weather got colder and we decided to have some drinks at a restaurant. We continued talking there (another 2 hours) and I held her by her hand most of the time, caressing it, leaning toward her and that kind of stuff. I tried to kiss her once while I leaned over her slowly but she turned slightly sideways. While we were walking toward my car afterwards I said to her with a gentle smile "Would you give me a kiss" and went for it. I kissed her but I guess she was a little surprised and didn't seem enthusiastic about it.

She was probably just nervous. Don't read anything into it. Also, I've never asked for a kiss. I think it's off-putting for a lot of girls. Try to learn how to do it without asking.

I drove her home and we talked in the car for half an hour while sitting in it in front of her house. I was holding her hand again, most of the time, while talking and fondling it. We parted ways with me leaning over her for another kiss which was even less enthusiastic, I think.

She was still probably nervous. Or she may have gotten the impression that you were interested in progressing things even more sexually.

I got home and messaged her if she too got home safely (a little joke as I drove her home). We exchanged couple of messages but she seemed more aloof to me.

Stay calm. Don't be too sensitive to her reactions.

Now I don't know what to do and what to think at all Do I message her again these days? Or do I wait for her to contact me? Why didn't she mind me touching and hugging her for the whole evening but not like me kissing her? I'm confused and would appreciate all kinds of advices

In this situation, I sense she is attracted to you, but just needs more comfort, i.e., to get to know you better. I would keep doing what you're doing. You don't have her hooked yet so I would message her again. Just to see how she is doing.

I've always thought that I am too "soft" on dates and don't push things physically and just give a "friendly" vibe. You make me think about that, but I am not some macho man or some PUA so I think I am a little scared and not so comfortable when going out on a date. I can't see myself coming too strong for a girl, but who knows...

No. I don't sense that you progressed things too fast physically. I kiss girls on the first date all the time. It's not uncommon for me to have sex with the on the first date. Don't slide back into being too friendly and passive. You made some big progress on this date.

I think your second paragraph is spot on! I will take notice of it as I seem to put the cart before the horse...

I disagree with the second paragraph entirely. It's your job, as the man, to lead things and progress things physically. If you try to build the emotional connection first, you get friendzoned. There's nothing wrong with trying to build and emotional connection and escalate physically at the same time. This is, in fact, how it should be done.

Maybe, but also it depends on context and appropriate timing. If there's a clear cut romantic vibe and you find yourselves in a fairly isolated place (not in public or at a bar) then sure, go for a kiss. But if it just comes out in the middle of conversation in a social setting, maybe you should have waited for a more appropriate moment, like a quick kiss goodbye and leave it at that

No. I kiss women in bars or in public all the time. It's my go to, rather than at the end of the date. And it happens in the middle of conversation all the time too. I actually know how to create the moment, so I purposely put a pause in the conversation and go for it. Haven't been rejected yet this year :-) (20 or so kisses out of 30+ first dates).

A little update: I decided I can't keep myself in the dark and texted her.

 

-Hi, ! I am left with the impression that you didn't like the date. Do you think it would be our last one?

-Hi! I don't think it would be. I guess I need some time to get to know you

-I see. I just thought you don't like me because you weren't too enthusiastic about kissing me last night.

-Well, like you said, I am a strange person

-I don't worry about you being an odd person. I just don't want to invest in a situation where I'm not wanted by the other person

-You are different. I need time. I'm sorry if you aren't ok with that. We can stop seeing each other if you want to

-I AM ok with that. I just wanted to know your opinion because of my previous bitter experience. I don't want to put you under pressure. Of course we will see each other. I hope "different" is used in a good sense

-Of course it is

 

How do I come up with such a BS? I am reading it and laughing at myself. Pressuring a girl, exposing my insecurities... What a mess

This conversation is fine. Try to learn some lessons from the feedback. Things are set up for you to continue to explore things. Congrats.

That's what I am saying, too. The interesting thing is that I became insecure and needy after my last breakup (an year ago). Prior to that I couldn't care less about such things... But after that breakup, I was shattered and all my confidence and self-esteem went through the window. The bitter experience I talked about was with a girl which I went out with several times in the summer. I didn't want the same thing to happen with this girl now, so I wanted to ask her (no matter how stupid that was) if she likes me as I really don't want to go on 5 or 6 dates again just to be told that she doesn't want a relationship or something like that... I have to adapt to every girl as they are all different, but I don't think I would ever go out on 4-5 dates again without getting a kiss or I risk being rejected again. I prefer being rejected earlier but to have my intentions clear and when I have not invested much time and emotions into a particular girl. The things should happen naturally and effortlesSly.

This is very normal. Don't judge yourself about it. And I don't see anything wrong with your current perspective. You will continue to adjust as you get further away from your break up and get more experience with girls.

It wasn't necessary to spit out so much info, at least half of which is totally wrong, because you didn't read (or didn't want to read and understand??) what exactly I've said, but I will try to be more clear. Just calm down...

 

I've never said the woman should talk all of the time, but MOST of the time, which is what happens usually with me. We had a conversation and she was not exhausted at all - 5 hours felt like a minute. I don't know where you come up with that BS from...

 

I wasn't so aggressive physically, I started with a light touch and progressed through the evening so I thought a kiss would be appropriate ending of things. Not for the sake of it, I really wanted to do it.

 

By adapting I meant I should learn to see what the particular girl is all about and not to think she would string me along like some other girl from my past, for example. Not to assume she will be like girl X or Y, which I've been with. Try not to project your thoughts on me... I don't want to deceive anyone.

 

What's wrong with my concept of rejection? Don't get your point... I don't run away from rejection, it hurts but it happens. In fact out of these 7 dates I mentioned, I didn't like 3 of the girls so it's not like that any warm body will do. Try to not be so judging...

Your perspective is correct. You were not too pushy. She just didn't know if you were interested and she was probably nervous/shy.

It wasn't necessary to spit out so much info, at least half of which is totally wrong, because you didn't read (or didn't want to read and understand??) what exactly I've said, but I will try to be more clear. Just calm down...

 

I've never said the woman should talk all of the time, but MOST of the time, which is what happens usually with me. We had a conversation and she was not exhausted at all - 5 hours felt like a minute. I don't know where you come up with that BS from...

 

I wasn't so aggressive physically, I started with a light touch and progressed through the evening so I thought a kiss would be appropriate ending of things. Not for the sake of it, I really wanted to do it.

 

By adapting I meant I should learn to see what the particular girl is all about and not to think she would string me along like some other girl from my past, for example. Not to assume she will be like girl X or Y, which I've been with. Try not to project your thoughts on me... I don't want to deceive anyone.

 

What's wrong with my concept of rejection? Don't get your point... I don't run away from rejection, it hurts but it happens. In fact out of these 7 dates I mentioned, I didn't like 3 of the girls so it's not like that any warm body will do. Try to not be so judging...

I know that, as a man, I should not talk so much about myself and let the woman do most of the talking and just show some genuine interest and appreciation, which I follow strictly. I don't like talking much about myself and really enjoy stories women share with me and try to guide them to open up.

You got the response you did because you said this^^ That was my take on it as well.

It's hard to feel any sort of connection if your date is purposely holding back and some how you think this gives you an advantage?

I get your intentions are good, but I'd be less than enthusiastic to kiss someone that I didn't feel a connection with.

Consider rethinking your dating practices some.

And from where I sit, you just shot yourself in the foot with the text. There are just some things you cannot undo. You pretty much invited her to dump you and spelled out all the reasons to do so.

If you are pulling some sort of preemptive strike because of a previous bad experience then I might advice you to not date until you've reconciled with that.

Future dates should not have to pay for the sins of others before them.

As a woman who has dated A LOT I will say that talking is fun for us but we also like the guy to talk back and talk about himself too. Otherwise we tend to see the guy as 'boring'. Now of course chemistry and all is really important to but we women like a type of balance between talking and also having our guy talk back. We want to see if we have stuff in common with him too! Just a thought. As for the kiss, she may not have felt a connection, again if we don't feel like we know the guy it's hard to get physical unless the relationship is purely physical in which case that's a different story but it seems ur a more down to earth regular guy not just looking to sleep with someone and bolt.

And from where I sit, you just shot yourself in the foot with the text. There are just some things you cannot undo. You pretty much invited her to dump you and spelled out all the reasons to do so.

She agreed to see you again, so I wouldn't say things are done. Just proceed as normal.

People, I am saying it again - I don't think there should be some monologue, of course. I think of the conversation more like 70/30 or 60/40 or whatever. I am not purposefully holding back, not at all! The conversation flows naturally and she does most of the talking, but that doesn't mean I am just sitting there and listening and not saying a word... I totally agree with your last paragraph, I am guilty of it.

Meanwhile I got a call from her. We talked for an hour and she will take me from my home with her car tomorrow evening. I think I have to go buy some lottery tickets, I feel lucky

I tried to be more physical and slipped my arm through hers and we walked like that for some time after which I embraced her fully and continued walking that way.

 

The weather got colder and we decided to have some drinks at a restaurant. We continued talking there (another 2 hours) and I held her by her hand most of the time, caressing it, leaning toward her and that kind of stuff. I tried to kiss her once while I leaned over her slowly but she turned slightly sideways. While we were walking toward my car afterwards I said to her with a gentle smile "Would you give me a kiss" and went for it. I kissed her but I guess she was a little surprised and didn't seem enthusiastic about it.

That would have bugged me out.

The whole being aggressive physically or pushing physically....again where do you get these ideas from? As a woman, I'm cringing just reading this. Having been on the receiving end of this kind of unwelcome pushiness from insecure guys, I can tell you that it very much spells the end unless he is willing and able to back off. She didn't invite your attempts to kiss. In fact, after the cool reception the first time, you should have gotten clued in enough to stop. She was clearly not comfortable and not on the same page as you. Patience and respect will get you much further on dates than pushing. Instead of acting on these wild ideas in your head, maybe try to be more present in what is actually happening in reality and how she is or isn't responding.

I couldn't agree with this more!

I'm glad you have another date. I hope you stay firmly rooted in reality and don't go off on another one of these fearful masculinity flights. I don't know why you are so concerned about being masculine. You're a man. You are masculine. You are perfectly fine as you are.