Red Flag if the guy on first date does not pay for my food?

A guys asked me out to a dinner and picked the restaurant. Toward the end, when the waiter came to drop off the bill, the waiter leaned toward the guy and put the bill on the table closer to him. I reached out to my purse to get my credit card; and even though he noticed it, he did not make any comments that he will pay for everything. I put my credit card on the bill. Meanwhile he was still trying to find his wallet in his jacket. He put his card on the table next to mine; and then few seconds later he made an offer to pay for everything. He was not very insisting or anything. To me, if he really wanted to pay for the dinner, he could had grab the bill right away when the waiter put it on the table. I replied "That is fine; I will pay my share." When the waiter came back, he asked how he should split it; and I replied half 50-50. He was just silent.

I am not one of those women who thinks men must always pay because that is how it should be. However, it was a bit weird how he acted. He was the one who asked me out on a dinner date and picked the place. I do not think it is his lack of interest because he texted me right after we left the restaurant that he cannot wait to see me again. When on a date, I always offer to pay on the first date, and the guys say no except this one. Also in my last relationship, my ex paid most of the time, but I would pay here and there because I did not feel right he paying all the time. But I personally cannot stand cheap people and to me what he did last night was a bit not nice for a gentleman.

If you didn't think the meal would be worth your money, or if 5-second Yelp result shows it'd be too expensive, you're free to suggest an alternative venue. "He who invites, pays" is a pretty clever workaround considering it's guys still largely being charged to initiate. We don't pull that logic when it comes to friends, and those are people we know and have reason to care enough to pay for, so I've never understood applying it to first dates.

Even so, not only did you put your card out, but you declined when he offered. I actually consider it more of a red flag when a man can't respect a woman's autonomy enough to pay for the food she consumed when she so expresses a willingness to.

But I will thank you for coming on here and talking about how you can't stand cheap people after having just complained about paying for something you ate. It's always nice to get a dose of humor in the morning.

I am not one of those women who thinks men must always pay because that is how it should be. However, it was a bit weird how he acted. He was the one who asked me out on a dinner date and picked the place. I do not think it is his lack of interest because he texted me right after we left the restaurant that he cannot wait to see me again. When on a date, I always offer to pay on the first date, and the guys say no except this one. Also in my last relationship, my ex paid most of the time, but I would pay here and there because I did not feel right he paying all the time. But I personally cannot stand cheap people and to me what he did last night was a bit not nice for a gentleman.

You might not think you are 'one of those women who wants a man to pay because that's how it should be' but you seem to be annoyed that this guy didn't 'follow the script' and insist on paying after you brought out your wallet.

If you truly believe that women should pay their own way then you need to put your money where your mouth is. Literally.

Don't pretend to take out your wallet expecting him to stop you and then get annoyed when he doesn't. He was probably just as confused as you - unsure of whether you were serious or not.

If you indicate that you expected him to pay you only set women back.

Pay or don't pay, but don't play games. It's degrading to both sides.

If you didn't think the meal would be worth your money, or if 5-second Yelp result shows it'd be too expensive, you're free to suggest an alternative venue. "He who invites, pays" is a pretty clever workaround considering it's guys still largely being charged to initiate. We don't pull that logic when it comes to friends, and those are people we know and have reason to care enough to pay for, so I've never understood applying it to first dates.

 

Even so, not only did you put your card out, but you declined when he offered. I actually consider it more of a red flag when a man can't respect a woman's autonomy enough to pay for the food she consumed when she so expresses a willingness to.

 

But I will thank you for coming on here and talking about how you can't stand cheap people after having just complained about paying for something you ate. It's always nice to get a dose of humor in the morning.

Agreed 100%. I believe women should pay their way. None of this 'whoever invites pays' nonsense. That's an excuse to keep the status quo. And as you said, if I were on a date and offered to pay (which I ALWAYS did) I would be extremely annoyed if the man I was with ignored my agency and insisted on paying.

We need to put an end to this game playing. If a woman offers to pay she has to mean it and a man needs to respect that. We need to stop expecting men to initiate the dates and pay for them too.

If you didn't think the meal would be worth your money, or if 5-second Yelp result shows it'd be too expensive, you're free to suggest an alternative venue. "He who invites, pays" is a pretty clever workaround considering it's guys still largely being charged to initiate. We don't pull that logic when it comes to friends, and those are people we know and have reason to care enough to pay for, so I've never understood applying it to first dates.

 

Even so, not only did you put your card out, but you declined when he offered. I actually consider it more of a red flag when a man can't respect a woman's autonomy enough to pay for the food she consumed when she so expresses a willingness to.

 

But I will thank you for coming on here and talking about how you can't stand cheap people after having just complained about paying for something you ate. It's always nice to get a dose of humor in the morning.

I'm dying of laughter. Lol. Your advice may be blunt, but is so, so true!

How you let a man treat you the first few dates is how the relationship will be for the remainder of it.

If you offer to pay, it sends the message that you are not hot for him. Like their money is not good enough for you. When I am so not interested in a person, I pay my share.

But, I'm also part of the "X' generation where dudes generally paid for at least the first few dates to all of the dates. Different mindset. If you are in the late 20's early 30's, eh, check out how the 2nd date is before you write him off. If you are in your late 30's, early 40's, there's no way your card should have made it out of your wallet.

You communicated very clearly that you wanted to pay. He listened. Isn't that a good thing?

Agree with the person who commented above. This guy may have felt odd that you put the card on the check and he may have thought that you wanted to pay for your half because you did not like him enough. His lack of insisting to pay for you may have been an insecurity. Go on the second date and see if he does the same thing I would say that he will probably pay for everything on the second date. I'm not of the mindset that people should go 50-50 on the first date. The fact of the matter is men's still make more money than women and I know I will get blasted for that comment on this Forum but it is the truth. So as far as equality is concerned we are still not there yet. However I do think that after the first couple of times then instead of 50-50 it should be one time he picks up the tab, you pick up the tab the next time, he picks up the tab ,then you pick up the tab the next time , and so on. That's how I like it, but to each his own.

I agree with the above post. He wasn't being cheap, he was wondering if you don't like him and just wanted to pay your share and get out of there. That's why he fell silent....he was disappointed by your move. Most guys take it as a bad sign, (well most traditional guys do) when a woman throws her card down after a dinner date he asked you out on.

Now if you feel that you should contribute....suggest going for drinks...your treat.

If you value being respected, then respect yourself by meaning what you say.

A couple of years ago, when I offered to pay my date said he didn't care which of us paid. So I said I'd prefer it if he paid. Because it was true, and he did. It made me laugh. It also pointed out his understanding that Who Pays can be loaded. He wanted me to be comfortable.

You offered, he accepted. You pay.

If you didn't think the meal would be worth your money, or if 5-second Yelp result shows it'd be too expensive, you're free to suggest an alternative venue. "He who invites, pays" is a pretty clever workaround considering it's guys still largely being charged to initiate. We don't pull that logic when it comes to friends, and those are people we know and have reason to care enough to pay for, so I've never understood applying it to first dates.

 

Even so, not only did you put your card out, but you declined when he offered. I actually consider it more of a red flag when a man can't respect a woman's autonomy enough to pay for the food she consumed when she so expresses a willingness to.

 

But I will thank you for coming on here and talking about how you can't stand cheap people after having just complained about paying for something you ate. It's always nice to get a dose of humor in the morning.

Nothing more needs to be said...

Arm wrestling you over the bill when you made it so clear that you intend to pay your share would be the opposite of being a gentleman and also extremely disrespectful to you.

OP, you jumped in with both feet. Pulled out your card and put it on the bill before he even had a chance to get his. He offered to pay all, you declined. When the waiter came, you jumped in again with 50/50. You totally took over and took control of the bill pay situation and now you are calling the guy cheap for.....what exactly? Respecting your wishes?

Don't sh$t test people because the real failure will be yourself. If you want a guy who'll pay for you, don't whip out your card and take over. If you mean to pay, then pay because that's what you actually want to do. This particular situation has nothing to do with being cheap or generous and yes, there is irony in your attitude here that's pretty funny.

How you let a man treat you the first few dates is how the relationship will be for the remainder of it.

 

If you offer to pay, it sends the message that you are not hot for him. Like their money is not good enough for you. When I am so not interested in a person, I pay my share.

 

But, I'm also part of the "X' generation where dudes generally paid for at least the first few dates to all of the dates. Different mindset. If you are in the late 20's early 30's, eh, check out how the 2nd date is before you write him off. If you are in your late 30's, early 40's, there's no way your card should have made it out of your wallet.

Or it sends the message that you are an independent person who has their own money and does not need to be "taken care of" by a man. It sends the message that you are not after a guy for his money or the things he can give you. It sends the message that you don't want to "owe" a guy anything for buying you dinner. I am in my mid 30s so maybe I don't make your age cut off, but I absolutely would never allow a guy to pay for a date for me whether I am interested or not.

Agree with the person who commented above. This guy may have felt odd that you put the card on the check and he may have thought that you wanted to pay for your half because you did not like him enough. His lack of insisting to pay for you may have been an insecurity. Go on the second date and see if he does the same thing I would say that he will probably pay for everything on the second date. I'm not of the mindset that people should go 50-50 on the first date. The fact of the matter is men's still make more money than women and I know I will get blasted for that comment on this Forum but it is the truth. So as far as equality is concerned we are still not there yet. However I do think that after the first couple of times then instead of 50-50 it should be one time he picks up the tab, you pick up the tab the next time, he picks up the tab ,then you pick up the tab the next time , and so on. That's how I like it, but to each his own.

Men do still make more by and large than women, but that doesn't mean they are obligated to pay for us. Nor does it mean we have to play the part of helpless damsels who need a man to foot the bill. Not to mention if you make the offer, you need to be prepared to go through with it.

Age group does matter a bit, though not having to pay is obviously nicer for guys than for the women used to being paid for, so older guys are largely catching on quicker than the older women.

Still, don't overthink it. If a man thinks you're not interested because you paid for your share, that's either a man who's used to his wallet paving the way for him or you're a woman who's most likely pretty **** at showing interest in ways other than thanking a guy for taking the bill. Again, this is assuming you're not like.... old, old, and you've long been who you're going to be, gender equality be damned.

Despite being a pretty strict 50/50 guy myself, I will say that I absolutely love this:

A couple of years ago, when I offered to pay my date said he didn't care which of us paid. So I said I'd prefer it if he paid. Because it was true, and he did. It made me laugh. It also pointed out his understanding that Who Pays can be loaded. He wanted me to be comfortable.

Because who the **** doesn't like free food? No arbitrary logic, no "who extends the invite, pays," no "I don't want the guy to feel insecure by paying." Just something every one of us, male or female, can appreciate. There's literally not a single thing I could say to argue against it. I truly don't understand the socially problematic loopholes to justify liking to be treated. It's fine to like that. But there's a pretty thick and bold line between liking something and expecting it.

And, just as food for thought for the younger gals out there citing income as a justification. Depending on the study, you're looking at women up to 30 - 35 out earning men pretty much across the board. Your market share and market value are pretty unrelatable to your older peers. Not a "wow it sucks to be a man" gripe by any means, but simply to suggest it's a bit presumptuous to think any random guy sitting across from you is in any better a position than you to pay for a meal.

One thing that I do think people tend to underestimate is just how much it is hardwired into the female psyche that one way that males prove themselves worthy of consideration for a pair-bond is through his willingness and ability to provision her. Throughout the history of this species that how it was. I really do believe that the attitude that the male should pay is only reinforced by the culture; that's not where it starts.

However, like many other things this instinct really isn't congruent with the modern world. Women in almost 2018 now have their own money and there is no reason why a man should be expected to flit the bill for a woman's meal who he barely knows. So, OP, I would suggest that the part of you that felt a little off about this is coming from a part of your brain that still thinks we are in the stone age. That's not a knock on you; we all still have stone-age thinking in many ways. I still feel masculine and as if I'm proving myself if I pay for a woman's meal, but that's actually pretty silly when I look at it logically.

Its just not so complicated.

The point is to be graceful and comfortable. To gauge either party based on the whether they pay is to put way too much value on the money.

Or it sends the message that you are an independent person who has their own money and does not need to be "taken care of" by a man. It sends the message that you are not after a guy for his money or the things he can give you. It sends the message that you don't want to "owe" a guy anything for buying you dinner. I am in my mid 30s so maybe I don't make your age cut off, but I absolutely would never allow a guy to pay for a date for me whether I am interested or not.

I'm am an older generation. I run 3 companies - I don't think paying for date someone asked me to be on shows whether I am independent or not. Being independent means being able to do things by yourself. Splitting a bill on your first date equals you see him as a friend. But heck, I treat my friends, and it's non-sexual.

And if someone is "Independent", then why even bother being in a partnership.

I have also found that most men who are not abundant with means generally make more noise that it should be 50/50 on dates.

And generation, sure it doesn't matter, but for someone who acts out of the norm isn't generally normal. So with my generation, men paid the first few dates. Heck, all my father's friends, my brother's friends, my father, my brother, my relatives, all paid for their ladies + their vacations. So, I don't think it's too out there for a woman to expect a man to pay for the date he asked her on.

A guys asked me out to a dinner and picked the restaurant. Toward the end, when the waiter came to drop off the bill, the waiter leaned toward the guy and put the bill on the table closer to him. I reached out to my purse to get my credit card; and even though he noticed it, he did not make any comments that he will pay for everything. I put my credit card on the bill.

You pulled out your card immediately, so its unfair to accuse him of "refusing to pay for the date." I think you are looking for problems that are not there.

my philsophy is that the inviter should be prepared to/assume that they will pay for the date unless the other party offers to pay part of it.

btw, when i was very uncomfortable on a date, I whipped out my money faster than a snapped finger so I could get out of there.

If you didn't think the meal would be worth your money, or if 5-second Yelp result shows it'd be too expensive, you're free to suggest an alternative venue. "He who invites, pays" is a pretty clever workaround considering it's guys still largely being charged to initiate. We don't pull that logic when it comes to friends, and those are people we know and have reason to care enough to pay for, so I've never understood applying it to first dates.

 

Even so, not only did you put your card out, but you declined when he offered. I actually consider it more of a red flag when a man can't respect a woman's autonomy enough to pay for the food she consumed when she so expresses a willingness to.

 

But I will thank you for coming on here and talking about how you can't stand cheap people after having just complained about paying for something you ate. It's always nice to get a dose of humor in the morning.

I didn't thoroughly read your response before i posted, but you completely nailed it

I agree with the idea that the first few dates indicates how a guy will be in the relationship. In my last long term relationship, my ex wanted to split the first 4 dates. Or was it 5? He had a great job but turned out to be the stingiest guy I've ever met.

Here’s what I do.

I insist to split if the date was bad. Then there’s no guilt.

If the date was good, I offer to pay, let him pay if he says no, and then I say “well how about we follow up with drinks/ice cream/whatever, my treat?” OR “sounds good, I’ll get the next one”

Win win.

If the date was good, I offer to pay, let him pay if he says no, and then I say “well how about we follow up with drinks/ice cream/whatever, my treat?” OR “sounds good, I’ll get the next one”

Win win.

THIS is how you do it. If I'm buying dinner, I allow her to buy coffee or dessert afterward if she feels inclined to contribute.

t is hardwired into the female psyche that one way that males prove themselves worthy of consideration for a pair-bond is through his willingness and ability to provision her.

I was born in the 1950's and didn't come with this hardwiring, nor was it installed along the way. I don't see it in my peers in the part of the world I live in either. At least in my family of origin we were taught to carry our own weight, to be straightforward, not to feel entitled, and to pitch in where needed.