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Courtship and Sex Outside of Marriage


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As a devout religious person, I have held strictly and strongly to the practice of abstinence until marriage. However..

 

 

 

I believe this kind of sends the wrong message to the guy. I know women are just as capable of "humping and dumping", but it is supposed to bring about a sort of financial, and emotional security. But, does it also then display lack of trust ?

 

 

Let's say you are emotionally in love, and want to take it a step further, but know you will be crushed if he leaves you, and then you are left with no property, to boot. After giving him (or her) all of you. Your body, and everything.

 

 

On the one hand, marriage signifies security. Emotionally. Physically. Spiritually. Financially.

 

 

 

But, it communicates that you don't trust the person not to leave you, after doing the deed.

 

 

 

Thoughts ?

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I see where you are coming from.

 

I think you make a lot of good points about the security of marriage and knowing you will be with that person for life.

 

I too want to wait for marriage. I'm no Virgin but I'm in a new relationship and I feel like a virgin in this one. We just kiss, hug and hold hands. I like the concept of courting.

 

It feels very Victoria era..

 

I think that's why I particularly like Jane Austin novels. The men just expected the company of their companion not sex.

 

Mr. Darcy wasn't like "Okay, Jane now that we have slept together, I think we should start to see other people."

 

So OP I agree.

 

Less heart ache and less feeling used.

 

Lisa

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Many many thoughts.

 

Having been both indulgent and disinterested, solicitous and restrained, I have many thoughts.

 

The first is that there is no one way.

 

The second is that not having sex and having sex are the same thing, if either is the focus.

 

The 3rd is that connection, intimacy with someone is everything. If I feel that, little else matters.

 

The connection I am experiencing right now is between two people who are sex positive, experienced, and motivated. We do, sometimes, get physicaland sexual. But we dont have sex, we dont go into one anothers bedrooms. Possibly true for us both the one instance we both wanted and didnt want to go there; we will not go there. It strikes me that this may be an indication of our esteem for each other. That we want to go slow, avoid going backwards, be ready to dive in becauae we will want to dive in.

 

So, no I believe in abstinence as a rule for everyone.

 

Yes I believe in valuing each other, character before all else, waiting until a friendship survives conflict.

 

Regarding courtliness, Victorian era... Love that. But no no no. . Its how I was raised its not the way. Its a system of intimacy avoidance and suppression or negation of the self Read about the V era ... one of the eras when illicit relationships were most frequent. When we negate a part of ourselves, that part forces itself to be heard in equal and opposite amount.

 

So.

 

Acknowledge our sexuality. Its how we are made. We were not made to hate, judge, or disrespect our sensual selves.

 

Teach emotiinal security and conflict resolution. Learn to attach deeply. When we embrace ourselves and our loved ones, we value our ability to attach and we choose carefully.

 

So choose carefully. That is what I believe.

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That was supposed to say, No I do NOT believe in abstinence as the right way for everyone.

 

Also, I don’t believe in waiting until after marriage. Marriage is two whole people committing for life. Maybe sex happens after, I can see the logic of that. But I also think these two people need to understand their physical selves, same as other aspects of self awareness. The more we understand ourselves, the better we can accommodate our partner without threat of losing ourselves.

 

I don’t believe in losing weight by NOT having dessert and I don’t believe in cementing our commitment by NOT having sex. Both approaches put too much emphasis on denial, as if the sweet we are missing is more important than anything else. Find ways to express intimacy, have a connection, expose yourselves, explore yourselves together. Maybe that occurs without PITV sex. Maybe not. More important, make your expressions of intimacy use non sexual channels. Be secure without sex. Let sex happen last.

 

For me, sex can cause me not to trust my own judgment and not trust his motivations. Avoiding it can be extremely powerful.

 

Finally, from a higher being faith perspective, consider that God/similar of any name made us this way. We were meant to love ourselves, not to find ourselves vulgar. Remember that God is within you and it becomes difficult to use yourself cheaply. But that doesn’t mean our sexual selves are bad, or require a marital commitment.

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I only know that sexual compatibility is usually one of the important things most people need for a satisfying relationship or marriage. What if you marry someone and then find out that their pleasure derives from painful sex? Would you be comfortable delivering that for your partner's satisfaction? Or if you have a low libido and your partner has a high one, the one with the lower libido will always feel pressured and the one with the higher libido will always feel frustrated.

 

These are important things you can't know until you've had sex.

 

There is no crystal ball to find out if a person will dump you at any point, whether you've had sex or not, even after marriage. It is certainly best to weed out players who won't stick around after the initial first dates if you don't give in to sex with them, but it's a safe bet a person who sticks around after the honeymoon stage of the first 3 to 6 months and is patient about waiting to have sex, that their intent is that they really wanted to get to know you, and not just be a short term sex buddy.

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I only know that sexual compatibility is usually one of the important things most people need for a satisfying relationship or marriage. What if you marry someone and then find out that their pleasure derives from painful sex? Would you be comfortable delivering that for your partner's satisfaction? Or if you have a low libido and your partner has a high one, the one with the lower libido will always feel pressured and the one with the higher libido will always feel frustrated.

 

These are important things you can't know until you've had sex.

 

There is no crystal ball to find out if a person will dump you at any point, whether you've had sex or not, even after marriage. It is certainly best to weed out players who won't stick around after the initial first dates if you don't give in to sex with them, but it's a safe bet a person who sticks around after the honeymoon stage of the first 3 to 6 months and is patient about waiting to have sex, that their intent is that they really wanted to get to know you, and not just be a short term sex buddy.

 

Agree about compatibility. Disagree about need to have sex to know about these things ... well... need to have a sexual life prior to, and need to have a physical sexual life with ech other, but not necessarily intercourse...

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I am not going to argue all the reasons why I think sex before marriage makes sense (which it does, to me), because it would clash with your religious beliefs, and therefore be of no use. Perhaps you've found a flaw in your belief system that you'd like to explore more deeply in your adherence to your faith, but that is a long process of reflection ahead.

 

Instead, I'll focus on what jumps out at me about the reasoning in your post.

 

It seems to me that your concept of marriage itself is somewhat warped, and possibly dangerously.

 

Marriage is not about "sending a message to the guy." Or the woman.

 

It's a mutual decision that affirms the desire -- and the hope -- of being able to spend the rest of your lives together.

 

And, it's also not a "test". It's not a test to see how loyal the person you've married is going to be to you, as you suggest here:

 

But, it communicates that you don't trust the person not to leave you, after doing the deed.

 

If you are so unsteady in your commitment to one another that by the time marriage is proposed, you are still thinking in terms of "How can I make SURE this person doesn't leave me?", then you have no business getting married. In other words, marriage is not a method or a prop for proving a partner's fidelity, and shouldn't be "used" that way. Getting married should entail having long solidified feelings of trust and faith in each other as partners. If that's missing, no one is ready for "I do's."

 

Furthermore, marriage is no insurance policy that a partner won't leave you. Look at the 60% divorce rate, and the even higher rate of marital infidelity, and you'll see that just because you've had a wedding and are wearing wedding rings, doesn't mean you can say, "Whew, now I'm in the clear! My partner will never abandon me after the deed!" People can and do leave marriages all the time -- maybe not the next day after the deed, but within months or years.

 

So it's totally misguided in my opinion to frame marriage as some kind of strategy about how to win trust and faithfulness.

 

You don't win trust and faithfulness by getting married.

 

You win getting married by building trust and faithfulness.

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The idea of sex and marriage from a Christian perspective is not about securing/gaining property and material wealth. It is that sex is something that joins two people together spiritually. Marriage is a sacred vow that you will remain faithful and stay with that person in sickness and in health.

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Just to be clear, there are a variety of views about sex and marriage within the Christian church(es).

 

We don't debate specific faiths/religions on these pages, and I don't mean to open a discussion that way. But if we comment as to the x religion perspective, please know that therr may be more than one perspective within a certain religious framework.Christianity encompasses many perspectives.

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As a devout religious person, I have held strictly and strongly to the practice of abstinence until marriage. However..

 

 

 

I believe this kind of sends the wrong message to the guy.

Unless you're holding back for the "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" reason, I don't see how this sends the wrong message. That absolutely should not be a reason for abstinence, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with being abstinent for moral reasons. If he dumps you over it (which he is completely entitled to do), then you weren't compatible in the first place.
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I've been with my wife 13 years and she is the only person I've ever had sex with. I wouldn't change it for the world.

 

When we started dating I even told her I wouldn't propose to her until we had been sexually active for over 4 years. We are both from very conservative Christian cultures and I didn't want her to feel pressure but also wasn't going to be deceitful and act like I had any intention of waiting until marriage.

 

I could go on and on for a long time about all my reasons but I cannot possibly fathom why anyone would wait until marriage before having sex...

 

If you do want all the reasons just ask and I will open up that box.

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I've been with my wife 13 years and she is the only person I've ever had sex with. I wouldn't change it for the world.

 

When we started dating I even told her I wouldn't propose to her until we had been sexually active for over 4 years. We are both from very conservative Christian cultures and I didn't want her to feel pressure but also wasn't going to be deceitful and act like I had any intention of waiting until marriage.

 

I could go on and on for a long time about all my reasons but I cannot possibly fathom why anyone would wait until marriage before having sex...

 

If you do want all the reasons just ask and I will open up that box.

 

I completely agree. Thank you for sharing.

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