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Thread: Should I bring this up in my performance review?

  1. #1
    thornz
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    Should I bring this up in my performance review?

    So,

    I asked my boss when my 3 month review would be (on behalf of my work colleague too) and he said we didn't need one because we're still employed so not much more to say. I told him even if he's happy with my performance overall I still think it's important to discuss areas for improvement. I know my own desires for professional development but the needs of the company and team may be different.

    Personally I think it's a good opportunity for the company to get feedback from us (given the astronomical staff turnover in our department) on how they could improve to retain the staff they have. There is only one "long termer" left in our department, he has been here 4 years. Nobody else bar the manager (been here 2 years?) has been here longer than 6 months. We are a team of 9 (1 just moved departments) so we have 2 vacant seats they are struggling to fill. I really think given this they should be getting as much feedback as possible to try and improve or at least stabilise the staffing situation. To say a review isn't required is stupid, or am I wrong?

    Should I bring up the issues I have with the company? Is a 3 month review purely for addressing my strengths and weaknesses? Am I supposed to give feedback of the company, particularly one issue that is hindering my progress on projects?

    The issues are pay is very poor if you take into account the level of responsibility, I could walk out of this job and get a similar one earning 5-15k more! Because of the staffing situation (all young and new to the company) nobody knows eff all so it's the blind leading the blind. I have no faith in my manager as he is indecisive as hell. You ask him to make a decision and he will fanny around for hour uhming and ahhing then eventually will make a decision based on the majority opinion of the 3/4/5 people he asked (all of us who are supposed to answer to him). This procrastination takes up time in my day and often I (and others) end up telling him what to do or make a decision and tell him that's what we're doing because we need an answer.

    The there are certain members of other departments who come and argue about pointless crap or tell me useless info just for the sake of who knows what?

    I don't have hours out of my day to do this crap!!!! Ugh!

    So review tomorrow. Should I bring all this up?

    Irrespective of if I bring this up, how do I deal with this stuff in a non confrontational and efficient manner so I can get answers and get people out of my hair and get on with my work? I'm starting to find myself losing patience now.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    willdation
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    Here's a tip - don't bring up problems when you don't have a solution. Otherwise, you will just be associated with problems and bosses have enough to deal with...

    it's better to be like, "Here is a problem I see with xyz, and I have a solution that could help the company with xyz"

    Also, the big bosses care about how you helped the company save money or profit. Numbers are extremely important.

    When you do a good job on a project, I would ask the boss for a raise. If they say next year, just be polite. Then go searching for a new job that will value you.

    My dad would always ask for raises and when asked why, he would say - "because I am worth it"
    He did point out that it didn't work every year, but at the end of the day he was getting paid so much more than his boss, the secretary had to hide his paycheck in an envelope so the boss wouldn't see it

    I will also be asking for a raise, however, I will be sending out some resumes and testing the market to see if I can find better opportunities. If my boss were to say they can't give me a raise, I would then bring up that I am getting offers much higher, so I hope we could try and make an agreement...or perhaps learn new skills to put me on that path for a promotion or growth within the company...

  3. #3
    thornz
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    Quote Originally Posted by willdation [Register to see the link]
    Here's a tip - don't bring up problems when you don't have a solution. Otherwise, you will just be associated with problems and bosses have enough to deal with...

    it's better to be like, "Here is a problem I see with xyz, and I have a solution that could help the company with xyz"

    Also, the big bosses care about how you helped the company save money or profit. Numbers are extremely important.

    When you do a good job on a project, I would ask the boss for a raise. If they say next year, just be polite. Then go searching for a new job that will value you.

    My dad would always ask for raises and when asked why, he would say - "because I am worth it"
    He did point out that it didn't work every year, but at the end of the day he was getting paid so much more than his boss, the secretary had to hide his paycheck in an envelope so the boss wouldn't see it

    I will also be asking for a raise, however, I will be sending out some resumes and testing the market to see if I can find better opportunities. If my boss were to say they can't give me a raise, I would then bring up that I am getting offers much higher, so I hope we could try and make an agreement...or perhaps learn new skills to put me on that path for a promotion or growth within the company...
    I have some solutions to problems, whether they will be listened to is another question. I can't bring up a solution to the issue with my boss as that's just his personality. The solution would be to either make decisions for myself (which we occasionally do anyway) or get a new boss lol. My bosses boss however is amazing but again that's his personality.

    I can already think of a few examples where I have helped the company save time and money (again over-riding my boss) but also some examples where we have lost out (because myself and everyone in my department don't know enough).

    I have brought work home to get a project completed this weekend because of the indecisiveness of my boss taking up my precious time. I am working very hard as I love the role and it's not gone unnoticed. I will be asking for a raise after a year (I think I have a pay review at that point anyway).

    Ok good call, go in the meeting with solutions to problems.

  4. #4
    Batya33
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    I would not bring up anything negative about your job or company after only three months on the job unless you're leaving and already have another accepted job offer. Period. What you describe might be atypical in your field but a boss being indecisive and it resulting in weekend work - quite typical across many industries/jobs/careers/professions. If it happens every single weekend including on weekends where you have indicated in advance that you won't be available or if you're called during vacation because of your boss's indecisiveness as you put it, fine -when it is that extreme and you have proven yourself to the max and been there the better part of a year you can find a way to diplomatically address it. I am going to end up working at odd hours this week because one of my supervisors hasn't gotten back to me yet. Oh well -it's called "working" - do I love it -no. Will I complain - no way. I choose my battles and if it turns out it is so delayed I cannot possibly do it (I am part time) I will address it then in the most diplomatic and careful way I know and honestly I'd rather work late into the night than have to do that. I am very grateful to have this job and I count my blessings that I got hired in my situation. Think carefully about whether you are grateful and if not what your alternatives are for work and the possibility of burning bridges.

    Often a 90-day review isn't actually done or it's just pro forma because it's such a short amount of time. It's not for you to decide. All you have to decide is whether you want to continue working there. You don't have the leverage to suggest solutions to problems at this point IMO.

  5. #5
    willdation
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    Quote Originally Posted by thornz [Register to see the link]
    I can already think of a few examples where I have helped the company save time and money (again over-riding my boss)
    LOL Yeah, I totally know what you mean. I actually "over-rided" my boss when I had the director of the company write me on chat for help in fixing something, which I did and looked great. BUT, that little bit of "over-riding the boss" and stepping above her definitely got mentioned during my performance review as needing to be improved...ehm

    So even the other week I had my bosses bosses boss from Luxemburg call me to a meeting and ask if I can try this new project (without my boss knowing yet). So I just told my current boss, "hey, so ___ would like to me work on xyz. I should put you on copy for emails etc, for "visibility," right?" My boss was just like, "yeah, sounds good!"

    I really don't care anyways cause I secretly have my own company and will be leaving and doing my own thing eventually

    Work politics can be funny. I just try and be the positive, friendly guy, that just gets work done and it all seems to work...

    With regard to a performance review. We usually have weekly 1-2-1 meetings and they are just a waste of time IMO. If you are able to track your performance, I think it is probably just better to say do like 110% and just track it. Save the numbers and you have evidence of over performing...

    Sometimes though if I had an idea, I would just ask if I could schedule a meeting, tell my boss the idea I have and if I could work on it, and that's it....

    Also, depending on what your goal is for the performance review....if it is wanting a promotion, you would always just ask your boss to schedule a meeting to talk about "Growth opportunities" within the company. Just see what the skills are needed for higher up positions and see if you could take some training/courses to help out with some side-projects etc.

    I found that at least where I work, they will not just hand out training. Instead they look for people who are, keyword: "Proactive" ...So just bug them every now and then for some extra training to help with reports or whatever you do that could help the company and take some of the work-load off of them....Besides, if you are being a bit over-productive, what else are you gonna do with those extra hours?
    Last edited by willdation; 11-05-2017 at 09:48 AM.

  6. #6
    LHGirl
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    You've only been there 3 months?

    No, you don't need a review at 3 months.

    Nor do you, as a brand new employee, need to be bringing up problems, or anything negative.

    I've been in the working world for many decades, and I've had people report to me. If a 3-month employee demanded a review from me, and then told me everything negative about the company and the job, I'd show them the door.

    If you're already this unhappy, then update your resume and keep indeed.com bookmarked.

  7. #7
    thornz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batya33 [Register to see the link]
    I would not bring up anything negative about your job or company after only three months on the job unless you're leaving and already have another accepted job offer. Period. What you describe might be atypical in your field but a boss being indecisive and it resulting in weekend work - quite typical across many industries/jobs/careers/professions. If it happens every single weekend including on weekends where you have indicated in advance that you won't be available or if you're called during vacation because of your boss's indecisiveness as you put it, fine -when it is that extreme and you have proven yourself to the max and been there the better part of a year you can find a way to diplomatically address it. I am going to end up working at odd hours this week because one of my supervisors hasn't gotten back to me yet. Oh well -it's called "working" - do I love it -no. Will I complain - no way. I choose my battles and if it turns out it is so delayed I cannot possibly do it (I am part time) I will address it then in the most diplomatic and careful way I know and honestly I'd rather work late into the night than have to do that. I am very grateful to have this job and I count my blessings that I got hired in my situation. Think carefully about whether you are grateful and if not what your alternatives are for work and the possibility of burning bridges.

    Often a 90-day review isn't actually done or it's just pro forma because it's such a short amount of time. It's not for you to decide. All you have to decide is whether you want to continue working there. You don't have the leverage to suggest solutions to problems at this point IMO.
    I beg to differ, I don't know anyone who works additional hours at the weekend, and loses multiple hours every working week due their boss not being able to generate solutions or answer questions without putting it to vote between his subordinates. Anyone who does additional work at the weekend is paid for it. I actually said I was taking the work home so I don't get in the crap for being behind on this project.

    Said boss has called a colleague who was on vacation and also regularly contacts ex employees for help so yeah... not cool.

    I was asked a month ago how long I had been here because my 3 month review was due, that's why I chased it up.

    What do you recommend I do then? Leave?

  8. #8
    thornz
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    Quote Originally Posted by LHGirl [Register to see the link]
    You've only been there 3 months?

    No, you don't need a review at 3 months.

    Nor do you, as a brand new employee, need to be bringing up problems, or anything negative.

    I've been in the working world for many decades, and I've had people report to me. If a 3-month employee demanded a review from me, and then told me everything negative about the company and the job, I'd show them the door.

    If you're already this unhappy, then update your resume and keep indeed.com bookmarked.
    The 3 month review is what I was told was due for me. I asked my boss when it would be, he told me I didn't need one as I was still employed. I told him I would like one anyway because I wanted feedback on what areas I could improve on.

    Suppose I will bite my tongue and look for a new job in 9 months then. Though I actually love my job and most aspects of it, just frustrated by my boss and one other person who likes to waste people's time. Seems a shame to leave when everything else is great but I can't say I expect they will surprised given the turnover of staff in our department lol

  9. #9
    Batya33
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    Quote Originally Posted by thornz [Register to see the link]
    I beg to differ, I don't know anyone who works additional hours at the weekend, and loses multiple hours every working week due their boss not being able to generate solutions or answer questions without putting it to vote between his subordinates. Anyone who does additional work at the weekend is paid for it. I actually said I was taking the work home so I don't get in the crap for being behind on this project.

    Said boss has called a colleague who was on vacation and also regularly contacts ex employees for help so yeah... not cool.

    I was asked a month ago how long I had been here because my 3 month review was due, that's why I chased it up.

    What do you recommend I do then? Leave?
    I guess we have very different work experiences. I am talking about working in a professional environment where there's no specific set time you're supposed to work - if your hours are supposed to be, let's say, 9 to 5 and that is the description of your job duties then of course you should be paid for overtime. Bosses wasting time/being indecisive? To the extent you describe? That to you is unusual? I just cannot relate (and yes when I have supervised others I've worked extremely hard to avoid that happening of course but of course it comes with the territory of almost every professional environment I've worked in).

    I suggested what you should do - do not complain after 3 months or offer "solutions" after such a short time on the job. If you think that your boss is being incompetent or "wasting" your time or you are not getting paid for hours worked, time to find another job, I agree.

    As far as whether he's contacted other colleagues while they are on vacation that's largely irrelevant unless it happens to you. Often people don't know the whole story, what kind of vacation it was, whether work was left undone before he or she left, etc. When I was in a professional role for 15 years I was basically on call 24.7 other than on planned vacations or when I was very sick (and even then). I was paid a salary, not overtime and part of the expectation was that I'd be available. Sometimes I had to work late into the night or on weekends because of someone else's inefficiency. To me that was called "work" and that was part of the territory.

  10. 11-05-2017, 10:32 AM


  11. #10
    thornz
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    Quote Originally Posted by willdation [Register to see the link]
    LOL Yeah, I totally know what you mean. I actually "over-rided" my boss when I had the director of the company write me on chat for help in fixing something, which I did and looked great. BUT, that little bit of "over-riding the boss" and stepping above her definitely got mentioned during my performance review as needing to be improved...ehm

    So even the other week I had my bosses bosses boss from Luxemburg call me to a meeting and ask if I can try this new project (without my boss knowing yet). So I just told my current boss, "hey, so ___ would like to me work on xyz. I should put you on copy for emails etc, for "visibility," right?" My boss was just like, "yeah, sounds good!"

    I really don't care anyways cause I secretly have my own company and will be leaving and doing my own thing eventually

    Work politics can be funny. I just try and be the positive, friendly guy, that just gets work done and it all seems to work...

    With regard to a performance review. We usually have weekly 1-2-1 meetings and they are just a waste of time IMO. If you are able to track your performance, I think it is probably just better to say do like 110% and just track it. Save the numbers and you have evidence of over performing...

    Sometimes though if I had an idea, I would just ask if I could schedule a meeting, tell my boss the idea I have and if I could work on it, and that's it....

    Also, depending on what your goal is for the performance review....if it is wanting a promotion, you would always just ask your boss to schedule a meeting to talk about "Growth opportunities" within the company. Just see what the skills are needed for higher up positions and see if you could take some training/courses to help out with some side-projects etc.

    I found that at least where I work, they will not just hand out training. Instead they look for people who are, keyword: "Proactive" ...So just bug them every now and then for some extra training to help with reports or whatever you do that could help the company and take some of the work-load off of them....Besides, if you are being a bit over-productive, what else are you gonna do with those extra hours?
    I'm not interested in promotion as I don't feel I need one, deserve one or have the knowledge to achieve well in one. I am interested in a fair wage for my job which I can achieve by asking for a pay increase after a year and leaving if I don't get one.

    The purpose of requesting the review was to get feedback on my performance so I know what is expected of me and where I can improve outside of my own desires for my professional development. As I said I know what I want to achieve for myself but that doesn't mean that's what the company needs from me.

    Since we were all having a discussion (aka bich fest) about the issues we were having with our boss and the other member of our floor, the two of us who were due a review were analysing whether it was worth bringing up these issues in our review with another colleague. My colleague who already had his review brought up the pay. He was told he would be paid a lot more than was in his contract by the agent. Very naughty. I was told they were willing to pay 5k more than they offered, by the agent. Quite sneaky in my opinion.

    I'll keep my options open.

  12. 11-05-2017, 10:57 AM

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