Women: how important is income to you?

I'm a 40-year-old male. I've been on several dating apps in the past year or so.

I noticed that on one popular one in particular I was getting far less attention and responses than on the others. I couldn't figure out why. I had the same pictures up, the same basic profile, etc. And yet it was as if I was invisible on that site while I was getting pretty good attention on the others. After a while I pulled my profile and cancelled my memebership--that app was proving to be a poor investment of my time and money. But I was still puzzled as to why I had so little success there.

Then, the other day it hit me like a ton of bricks. At my job I am comfortably in the middle class. With overtime and a pickup shift here and there I gross about $65K a year. I have a job that some women find attractive and that I'll never starve doing. But it will never make me rich or even well-off.

This one particular app in question happens to allow members to filter by income. I am in the "50K to 75K" range. I realized that the problem may well have been that many women were settimg their filters for $75K and above.

So, honest question. Women, how important is income to you. I think if you combined my income with even say a $30K earner we could have a nice, comfortable life together, but I have to wonder if a lot of women have a higher standard based on my experience.

You should change your income to "no answer". It's nobody's business anyway.

But to answer your question, yes, many women filter by income. Just as there are many men who only click on very attractive girls.

The thing is, the guy who makes slightly less, or the girl who is really attractive, both have to end up being really good people to keep a relationship. Which is why I recommend ditching your income and let the ones who don't ask, into your world.

I ran into the issue of men my age (mid to late 40s) putting the age range of women they wanted to date as 22 to 35. Very little interest in women their own age.

So, I feel ya.

For me, I just want to know if you're gainfully employed at a full time job. I don't care if you're a janitor or an accountant or a mail carrier.

LHGirl, good point. Honestly, I did answer because I thought that saying "no answer" would be interpreted as me being really low income and wanting to avoid the question.

I ran into the issue of men my age (mid to late 40s) putting the age range of women they wanted to date as 22 to 35. Very little interest in women their own age.

 

So, I feel ya.

 

For me, I just want to know if you're gainfully employed at a full time job. I don't care if you're a janitor or an accountant or a mail carrier.

I've been really into evolutionary psychology lately, and dating apps seem to bear some of its claims out. Men are into gene quality and reproductive potential and women are into resources.

I've been really into evolutionary psychology lately, and dating apps seem to bear some of its claims out. Men are into gene quality and reproductive potential and women are into resources.

That's odd. The articles you read say men in middle age want to reproduce?

I would think most of them wouldn't be interested in having more children at that age.

Can you post a link to one of the articles that discuss men in middle age are looking to have more children? I'd like to read it.

That's odd. The articles you read say men in middle age want to reproduce?

 

I would think most of them wouldn't be interested in having more children at that age.

 

Can you post a link to one of the articles that discuss men in middle age are looking to have more children? I'd like to read it.

I think evolutionarily men would want to keep reintroducing until they die, which strictly physically speaking they basically can. Not necessarily if they have to be responsible for those children, but as casual mating strategy? Sure. It's not a conscious choice; it's instinct. The more little copies of your genes that are running around the better.

I would refer you to Dr. Doug Lisle who's an evolutionary psychologist with a clinical practice. His website is esteemdynamics.org and he has a podcast called "Beat Your Genes." He's brilliant. His book "The Pleasure Trap" helped me lose weight and get healthy. You can find a ton of lectures by him on YouTube but those mainly have to do with healthy eating. His podcast and website however goes far more into relationships, self-esteem, male and female motivations, etc.

I do think women, generally speaking, have a higher standard when it comes to a partner's income. That boils down more to societal norms than it does biology, though. It'll be interesting to see how that paradigm shifts with women increasingly entering high-paying fields and professions. So long as you don't expect or demand your potential partner make more than you, I think income standards are perfectly reasonable

That said, I was pretty honest with my OLD profile and my income. When I was listing $35,000 - $45,000, I was still getting messages from university professors and doctors, women easily clearing triple my income. I do think a lot of lower-income women have some sense of entitlement to a man who makes more, and I think many middle-class income women are more assertive than many men when it comes to an equitable financial contribution. But when you get into higher paying and high responsibility incomes and professions, I think women tend to make the same decisions men do in such a scenario. They're financially and professionally satisfied and tend to look for someone who brings something exceptional to the table in terms of their personal and social life, with less of a regard for their particular income or profession (though, as boltrun suggests, so long as they're gainfully employed and self-responsible).

I make more than my boyfriend, but I never really looked at income while dating. Even after becoming official, I didn't want to hear about his income as I don't believe it's my business until we think about moving in together. Moreso, I looked if they were college educated and focused more on those who were in a field similar to my background (STEM). I wanted an intellectual I could relate to and certainly did not want someone rich because I don't like to spend much personally. I at least wanted a person who can fend for themselves on their own without any help and isn't careless about their finances, hence someone I could see a future together with.

I believe your issue may be with the kind of dating site you're using. For example, if you were on seekingarrangements.com, then I could see why women would want a guy with a high income on there. Some websites are marketed for certain audiences and it is good to inform yourself.

I have no issue or interest in how much money someone has ( or hasn't ) ....as for the app asking you your income ..disgusting ..

I did the no answer option because I made a high salary and I think I may have indicated it at first and saw that that might be intimidating or just have a negative impact. Because I made a good salary and had savings I was far more focused on level of education, ambition and type of job/career/profession. When my husband and I started dating again I probably made more than he did but it was irrelevant - we both had savings, and I was so proud of him for having followed his dream career instead of settling for more money and being less happy or even miserable. We've been together now 12 years, married almost 9, and I feel exactly the same even though for much of our marriage so far-until last year -I brought in no salary (although paid for part of the household expenses out of my savings).

If someone made very little money I'd simply want to know why and if it had to do with ambition/values/work ethic, etc that would be the issue. Same if he made a high salary but at something unethical IMO. I once had a first meet with someone very involved in an MLM who was related to a celebrity/came from a wealthy family and on that basis I declined to date him - it just did not sit right with me. I remember a guy friend knew of him (because he was also into MLMs) and said I was "crazy" because of how wealthy he was. I thought I was smart about it.

There was a monetary limit because I did need someone where if I stayed home full time with a child, my contribution from my savings plus his income would allow us to live in a good neighborhood and in a decent way (nothing too fancy!!). I was at home full time for 7.5 years (would have been fine with 5 years but took me awhile to find the right job and also had to care for elderly parents/in laws) and we had no financial worries. That was important to me.

I married my husband fresh out of university. I met him when he had a part time job. Mind you when I met him I was 22 years old . So back then it was obviously of no consequence to me . Now at almost 51 who knows it may be a different set of criteria .

But we are very solidly middle class , bordering on upper middle class with combined income.

LHGirl, good point. Honestly, I did answer because I thought that saying "no answer" would be interpreted as me being really low income and wanting to avoid the question.

It will, so your options will be even worse. This whole 'man power', ' I am man hear me roar' thing doesn't work outside of this site, I'm just being honest. When a grown a** man puts on his profile 'I work' or ' Nunya business' DELETE! I take that to mean he is either insecure about his job, has no job, has a minimum wage job, or is one of those men who are overly cautious cause they think all women want is their money. All of which are going to be turn offs for me.

I don't think I've ever used the income filter but if I had, I'd probably put it in your range, for no other reason except it's in my range.

You want quality, not quantity and if a woman is not willing to date you because of your income, she's probably not going to be quality anyway.

Seriously though, I would not take the 'none of your business' route. You get more bees with honey than vinegar.

I do care about income.

It's not because I'm a spoiled gold digger - I'm looking for a guy who makes reasonably close to me. Maybe that's the wrong approach, but it is so very nice not fighting about money. My ex and I made within 5k of each other and never fought about money.

So similarity in that sense is important to me. Just like political comparability, religion, etc.

I do care about income.

 

It's not because I'm a spoiled gold digger - I'm looking for a guy who makes reasonably close to me. Maybe that's the wrong approach, but it is so very nice not fighting about money. My ex and I made within 5k of each other and never fought about money.

 

So similarity in that sense is important to me. Just like political comparability, religion, etc.

I agree with this and I knew I'd make zero salary if we were lucky enough to have a child, for at least a few years or more. But since I knew I could contribute from my savings, I was fine marrying someone who made less than me at the time. I think not putting income down is far different than leaving what you do for a living blank. I wanted to know what job/career/profession he had (or if he was a full time student, etc.). And if he didn't answer it either told me he was unemployed (temporarily was fine with me) or that he didn't value what he did for a living which wasn't ok. Well, it was ok if he also had a volunteer job or hobby that was more than just a hobby that reflected his ambition/work ethic, etc and which he had a practical attitude about (i.e. he wouldn't do it if he couldn't make ends meet in his day job).

^ I agree with this too.

Not putting what they do for a living is a no go for me. I'm gainfully employed (and even when I wasn't, I was working on personal improvement i.e. grad school) and I look for the same.

The longer answer to my prior post is that yes, many women do care about money. And they wants lots of it.

There's a google-able story of a guy who is a writer who was on Tinder. He had a profile pic of just half his face, with some funny verbiage, including how he likes to eat ice cream with a fork. Just funny stuff like that. He swiped right all day long, but got zero matches.

Until.....

He decided to do a little experiment, and he changed his profile pic to his ATM receipt, showing over $370,000. (of course, he blacked out his personal info). He got hundreds of matches within a day. He got a ton of cute little messages about eating ice cream with a fork, as if that was the funniest thing these girls ever saw.

Here's the thing: You don't want any of those girls, do you?

Interesting story about my exBF. Broke up 4 weeks ago, and he was back on all the sites within 24 hours (8 sites actually!!). Yes, I admit to a bit of NC, which I'm working on. Anyway, he listed his income at $150,000+. Which is true! Except:

-- He has no money saved and terrible spending habits, and a terrible credit rating.

--He's still paying his ex-wife support, as he borrowed against her business.

--He owns no furniture, as ex-GF's (including me, stupidly), gave him furniture.

--He lives in a really crummy, dirty, old rental.

--He totaled his car due to his neglect (he ignored the engine light until it literally died), and the only car he could afford was a $120/month rental.

--He's lost so many jobs, and so much money, and the only reason he has this job is because a family member hired him a couple of years ago, and then forced him to see a psychiatrist to get on meds (he's on 3 now!) as his erratic behavior was costing them customers and money. Major customers started complaining, and his job was changed to something a lot more private, and less in front of customers. His sister is married to the owner. Because he keeps up his psychiatrist visits, they let him keep his job.

But.....because of the $150,000+ in his profile, you guessed it.....loads of hits.

So, here's the funniest story: He's close to 60 years old, and a very attractive 45 year-old woman wrote to him. Turns out, she's divorced, her husband left her broke, and barely pays his child support, yet she's accustomed to wearing $800 shoes and $3000 bags. He's so into her, and of course she's "into" him. Wanna guess why? Wanna guess what'll happen when she sees the smoke & mirrors that is true about his finances?

i think if you choose to look at it as something either biologically or socially inherent in the way people chose mates, or a parameter influencing your options on OLD, you are overlooking the simple question of values you hold about partnership, and potentilly setting yourself up for a mismatch.

how would you feel with a partner whose cut you made because your salary happened to be high enough for them?

i understand people worried about getting involved with someone with massive debt, irresponsible spending habits, chronically unemployed etc, not even for reasons of moral judgement, but the pragmatic ones to do with the impossibility of sharing a life with inadequate means.

i am neither unemployed nor in debt, but pained by the feeling of being unreliable because it would be difficult to uphold a shared life and future on my current earnings, so i wouldn't take it personally that people want to be sure you have something you can...work with...if that makes sense.

you say you live comfortably on your income, and can continue to do so, which sounds more than allright. i would venture to guess you'd like someone who values (apart from the non-material aspects) basic material security and comfort over impressions, gain-seeking, or, well, i was hoping to avoid the phrasing but, anything too far on the superficial end of fulfillment. of course, "too far" on the superficial end of things is subjective, and perhaps you are unbothered by some level of filtering on the material aspect. I would simply think it a shame if you went about adjusting your approach or your information in hopes that how you present or don't present your financial status influences the women's readiness to consider you. There is a huge reinforcement of personal strength and confidence in standing behind your lifestyle, it's material and ethical side included, and if you remember why you are comfortable with it, the minds occupied with your bank account don't occupy yours.

i doubt it would appease you much, or in the long term, that you can "explain" what someone sees in you with their biological and social conditioning, if their measuring stick would leave you feeling heavily conditioned.

^^ I second what rainycoast said^^

For me, honestly I wouldn't care, at that moment. If, after reading his profile, and viewing pic(s), if I felt a "pull" (meaning that 'something' that stood out for me from the others), I would reply back.

Reason being, there may be specific reasons why a man is earning a lower salary at that particular point in time.

To use my ex as an example, the first few years we were together, he was earning $200K+ (not including bonus) working in corporate.

He eventually became totally burnt out and quit, his ambition was to become a general contractor.

So he took a $30K job and learned the trade. I fully supported.

After a couple of years, and learning the trade, he was earning $80K-90K at the contracting job AND he started up his own business = netting him (after getting screwed with taxes) approx $120K per year.

Knowing him had he been OLD when he earned 30K, he wouldn't have given a rats rear end what women thought.

He would have checked "under 50K" and not given a shyt.

If a woman negatively judges, without getting to know the man first, and what he's about, then again knowing him, he wouldn't have wanted her anyway.

Nor should you Krankor.

Society today is so superficial, and so quick to judge. Really irks me.

Ladies, get to know him! Discover what he's about, like my ex he could have good reason for the lower income at that particular point in time.

to add,

i mean that it is a question, imo, of how much you want your potential partner to be concerned with your finances.

personally, we were dirt poor for a huge chunk of my growing up, and i had a habit of sabotaging my financial success as a young adult to the point i sometimes had to live quite a bit more modestly than most people would consider. while that contributed to me developing an ability to "live off love and inner glee undetermined by anything external", it's not how i strive to live indefinitely and i would hardly expect a partner to accept having to live off love and beans on toast. they want to know you can create something together, now, or in a sensible time frame. at this age, people want to know if you are it, and if you are, many want to get hitched, start a family before the ship sails, and share the white picket fence dream, or whatever dream, perhaps one that demands a much fatter wallet, and that's their right. it's understandable they want to filter financially to the degree of making sure it's even a possibility. to me, and i know that is a highly personal perspective, that's the acceptable level of financial filtering, as i would consider it an unforgivable waste of their time on my part if i expected them to forget what their plans and desires require of the other financially. so it's not what i would take personally or resent, or judge a person as shallow for. people have material needs, and beyond the most basic material needs, they have benign material wants that deserve none of my scrutiny. they can however determine a match or mismatch, so i can't pretend the financial criteria is irrelevant by default.

now, my best friend, i think is an incredible person, but what i don't get her is brutal judgement of the price range of her boyfriend's bathroom tiles and the importance of his yacht. mind you, i find he has character and behavioral traits that would send many packing (insert kermit ain't none of my business meme, as it honestly is simply a private thought i hold and no more), but for her, she has decided she can live with that, as long as she gets the kind of fun with him that depends on what one is able to afford. also, she is 63 and has close to given up on a relationship entirely fulfilling on other levels, so that may account for it.

so i mean, evolution, the workings of OLD sites, social conditioning and all that aside, it really has to agree with you on a deeply personal level what the other is looking to find in you else you become resentful, disappointed or anxious over what you represent to them in time.

Krankor, wanted to add (to my previous post) that $75K is a very respectable salary.

As long as you, or any man, is doing something he enjoys, I wouldn't care what he earns.

Truth!

But that could also be because I earn a respectable salary myself, plus have my own investments, etc so not looking for a "provider" per se.

Motivation and drive *are* important to me though. As is a man being happy and content with what he does.

A man insecure or ashamed of what he does for a living and/or the salary he earns would be a turn OFF, not his actual salary or profession.

In a politically correct, ideal world, financial means should not matter, but reality can hit hard. Finances are the number 1 reason for divorce. NUMBER 1. Flowers and sunshine don't put dinner on the table, ijs...

Can the 36 year old flipping burgers at Wendy's be a great catch? Sure, but the truth is, that job isn't getting you 30 k. You're lucky if it gets you 15k and again not being politically correct the guy in question isn't some starved artist. Sometimes they are but 9 times out of 10 they're simply burn outs with no long term life goals.

People who fell on hard times and are trying to build themselves back up aren't typically wasting their rebuilding time playing around on dating websites. When I was going to school and working 2 minimum wage jobs to make ends meet, the last thing I was worried about was dating and if I was you could look at how I was living my life and see that I had goals.

Y'all wanna deal with those dudes, have at them, there's plenty of them out there, heads up they typically label their jobs as 'Maykin Dollaz' and their alma mater is 'the school of hard knocks'.

Finances do matter to me. When I was a student, I didn't feel like I could set a standard for myself because I wasn't making anything but when I got older, got out of school, and got a job, I had two standards: the guy must be at least my level of education (Bachelor's) and he must make around or more than me (I made 22k when I started, working OT)

My current boyfriend makes a lot more than I do. He works loads of over time, works off the clock as well (he's a manager at a healthcare company), etc. He plans to go back to school to get a professional degree and then he'll work even more than he does now, believe or not. He's just a total workhorse - that's who he is as a person.

Honestly, I kind of like it. I love time with my SO but we live together and I prefer time to myself so I am fine with him working 60+ hrs a week.

Also to add, I don't give a s__t if anyone thinks I'm materialistic for having the view I have. If you came to my apartment, you'd see no brand names or anything anywhere. I live frugally and I drive a cheap car and I won't date a guy who has an expensive, expensive-to-maintain car. I STILL think finances are important. I am in a good career field and I want my partner to be too. Let's face it, life is hard, and I don't want either of us to struggle. I want to come together and be able to afford a halfway decent place to live in a place that isn't a ghetto, have good health insurance, be able to get LTC health policies, invest some $$, save up for retirement, travel once a year, buy a coffee once in a while without worrying, no paycheck-to-paycheck nonsense, etc.