Her Ex comes to her for emotional support in hard times

Looking for some input.

I have been in a 2.5 yr relationship. We're mid-30's/early 40s in age. 4 kids (one for her, three for me). We moved in together about 4 months ago. My current girlfriend has a good/civil relationship with her ex, they split some 6 years ago. No problem there. I actually like him and we get along well when we're around each other for events such as kids soccer games, school pickups etc.

Recently my girlfriend went to pick up some take out for us. It took her quite awhile. When she returned, she told me (without my asking) that she had stopped at her ex's house because he "needed someone to talk to" about a recent legel issue. This issue has notihng to do with their child. It was a DWI - and while it's certainly understandable they would need to discuss rides/schedules, this was really him needing emotional support - no discussion about transportation. His live-in girlfriend had moved out just a week or two prior.

My feeling is that, despite the lack of a women in his life, he should not be coming to my girlfriend (his ex) for this support - nor should she be willing to provide it. I'm stuck on the mindset that this is a healthy boundary for all involved. He has friends and family. My girlfriend - much to my surprise - disagrees and claims that her and her ex have come to this place in their relationship as co-parents. I want ot be open minded and am trying to understand and even educate myself on her stance, but I can't seem to agree. I feel that emotion is one of the cords that has to be cut when a relationship dies - particularly in a situation where there's a new partner in the picture - and furthermore that this emotional connection causes discomfort, leading to strains in the current relationship. I'm not saying it's impossible for them to have such a relationship, but it's a slippery slope when one opens their heart and the other opens to receive.

Talk me down. Thanks.

i wouldnt like it. i would pack up and get out.

The conversation itself, fine. The time she took to go have it in person when she was out getting dinner - not fine. I would clarify that I am glad for their friendship so long as it I am primary. The choice she made was likely not intentionally against you; it is one I would have made years ago.

When you talk about this, be clear, concise, and moderate in your tone. Be firm in your words. Be narrow of topic.

Yes, be a good neighbor. A friend even. Still, boundaries must be kept for all sorts of reasons, and her attention needs always to come second to the people who are primary in her life. By going there she opened herself up to making her business your business. That means boundaries were crossed.

But the bigger picture.... don't extrapolate too much. My exH told me of his job woes before he told his wife. We have no intentions towards each other in any way. It was by phone etc. it meant nothing about us.

The conversation itself, fine. The time she took to go have it in person when she was out getting dinner - not fine. I would clarify that I am glad for their friendship so long as it I am primary. The choice she made was likely not intentionally against you; it is one I would have made years ago.

 

When you talk about this, be clear, concise, and moderate in your tone. Be firm in your words. Be narrow of topic.

 

Yes, be a good neighbor. A friend even. Still, boundaries must be kept for all sorts of reasons, and her attention needs always to come second to the people who are primary in her life. By going there she opened herself up to making her business your business. That means boundaries were crossed.

 

But the bigger picture.... don't extrapolate too much. My exH told me of his job woes before he told his wife. We have no intentions towards each other in any way. It was by phone etc. it meant nothing about us.

Rewrite for clarity.

Her concerns are first for the people who are primary in her life, and second to others including him. Having dinner arrive later than expected seems like a petty thing, but it would have been better for her to remain focused on her mission and talk to him while to and fro. Instead she reversed her priorities, thinking it not a big deal, and saw him in person.

There were ways to be kind to him without diverting her own path. And that is the phrase I like the best: she let his needs divert her from her path.

Those who choose to invest in her would prefer that she remain true to her path; that is what they choose to invest in, not the up croppings of other people's concerns.

Rewrite for clarity.

 

Her concerns are first for the people who are primary in her life, and second to others including him. Having dinner arrive later than expected seems like a petty thing, but it would have been better for her to remain focused on her mission and talk to him while to and fro. Instead she reversed her priorities, thinking it not a big deal, and saw him in person.

 

There were ways to be kind to him without diverting her own path. And that is the phrase I like the best: she let his needs divert her from her path.

 

Those who choose to invest in her would prefer that she remain true to her path; that is what they choose to invest in, not the up croppings of other people's concerns.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

So, bigger picture, I should work on being ok with this level of communication in general? Specific circumstances (dinner) aside, I'm still struggling with the lack of emotional boundary in general.

Thanks again.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

 

So, bigger picture, I should work on being ok with this level of communication in general? Specific circumstances (dinner) aside, I'm still struggling with the lack of emotional boundary in general.

 

Thanks again.

It is subtle. I suspect what is bothersome is how readily she jumps into fix-it mode for him. The boundary is not (may not be) an intimacy one, but rather a tension between when to help others and when to let them help themselves.

(1) Codependency?

Is your gf given to codependent relationships and/or self esteem challenges, or perhaps a childhood wherein her voice was drowned out by all the other goings on? She may have learned to subordinate her needs to the needs of others, and she may have a difficult time learning how to be both kind and responsible. This is a skill that she lacks, and may learn, or may not. It isn't about you, though.

If you frame her behavior as her subordinating her own needs to the needs of others, then you find your gf may have this pattern in other ways, including with you. It may be particularly useful for you to step back and appreciate her in this way. Accept that it opens you both up to the occasional interruption, and identify times when you would like her to make a special effort to keep others at a temporary distance.

(2) Childhood dynamics

If she is used to being interrupted, it feels like a bump not a mountain; she can accommodate all sorts of twists and turns in her day. This can be a skill in a different context. The downside is, she may not feel the disruption the way you feel it. It is like a non-event to someone who has tolerated disruption and indeed, been encouraged to get along in the midst of change.

For yourself, make clear that you would like her home in 30 minutes -- no stopping at the store, a friend's house, or any other errand that may pop up. Make it NOT personal.

(3) ADHD?

Finally, consider whether she has ADHD. I do -- emotional and practical interruptions as you describe were nothing to me. Blurry boundaries created chaos which was stimulating. It is fascinating (to me) how ADHD ran through all aspects of my life, not just the to-do list aspects the way people think. Others would see my behavior and interpret it as you have seen here -- and I could not understand their perspectives because my sense of normal was so different.

It sounds like your relationship is constant in other respects. Don't let this wind you into a fruitless spiral, unless you believe you are in a self-destructive dynamic.

If they were married and he is the father of her children and have been divorced for 6 years -- its natural to have somewhat of a friendship. My aunt and uncle divorced and they were ALWAYS both at their childrens' graduations, ran into eachother at the hospital when their grandchildren were born, and they did not attend all of the family gatherings -- but when it was kid-focused -- first birthday party, graduation, wedding, christmas party hosted by the kids when they were in town, etc. They did not have a romantic relationship at all. They didn't have long conversations on the phone, etc. He dated a series of women. You are going to have to get used to that and get used to also his parents being at major functions - school plays, graduations, etc.

A DWI is a major thing and will affect his coparenting of these kids which may require her to be prepared in regards to her child (if the child asks questions, they need to be a united front). I think it was wrong of her to delay your food coming home -- if she made a special trip out to get it, etc. But I don't think its wrong for her to discuss this with him if its a one off thing.

I would ask her in the future, if she is going to be late with dinner to call you -- or to put that in perspective, etc.

My short answer is: No, uh uh, not acceptable.

My longer answer: They are exes. Short of talking about arranging things for their kids, they shouldn't be engaging in much more than any sort of small talk. How's your job, it's supposed to rain today. Not emotional support, for a complicated emotional issue.

Yes, he is leaning on her because he has broken up with his girlfriend, and he needs emotional support. Your girlfriend isn't that person anymore.

That's why they're exes.

Draw a clear boundary. You stick to it with your exes, and she sticks to it with hers. Otherwise, messiness ensues, and nobody wins. And you end up on a message board trying to figure it out.

My short answer is: No, uh uh, not acceptable.

 

My longer answer: They are exes. Short of talking about arranging things for their kids, they shouldn't be engaging in much more than any sort of small talk. How's your job, it's supposed to rain today. Not emotional support, for a complicated emotional issue.

 

Yes, he is leaning on her because he has broken up with his girlfriend, and he needs emotional support. Your girlfriend isn't that person anymore.

 

That's why they're exes.

 

Draw a clear boundary. You stick to it with your exes, and she sticks to it with hers. Otherwise, messiness ensues, and nobody wins. And you end up on a message board trying to figure it out.

I disagree that we can dictate whether our SOs can be friends with their exes with whom they coparent etc. After years of distrust, my exH and I will now occasionally chat on the phone. Over the years, these conversations have slowly helped us feel more comfortable with one another, and there are many benefits to that. Neither of us has those conversations when we would otherwise be with our own SOs.

I do agree that it isn't her job, it is more an act of kindness. She likely understands him in a way nobody else does. I didn't like that she responded to his cry out for immediate attention, nor that se went to his home. But I would have approved had she said, I am out getting dinner; can we talk on the phone?

We will have to agree to disagree. I am in a relationship with someone who shares kids (grown) with an ex, and they are in touch regularly and do things together, as a family, often. It is all kept very cordial and for the good of the kids, but there is no emotional leaning by either of them. This allows me, and his ex's partner, a great level of comfort.

I encourage the interaction with my BF's ex, as I think it presents a united front for the kids. But I would draw the line at her calling him for emotional support. That's what her partner and her friends are for. FWIW, I'm actually going to my BF's ex's house this weekend for a party for their daughter. It was my idea to have it there! So I do believe ex-co-parents should get along. It's the emotional support where I draw the line.

I disagree that we can dictate whether our SOs can be friends with their exes with whom they coparent etc. After years of distrust, my exH and I will now occasionally chat on the phone. Over the years, these conversations have slowly helped us feel more comfortable with one another, and there are many benefits to that. Neither of us has those conversations when we would otherwise be with our own SOs.

 

I do agree that it isn't her job, it is more an act of kindness. She likely understands him in a way nobody else does. I didn't like that she responded to his cry out for immediate attention, nor that se went to his home. But I would have approved had she said, I am out getting dinner; can we talk on the phone?

Thanks for the reply. If I wasn't clear in my initial post, I have NO problem with them having a friendship whatsoever - and I am perfectly comfortble with the "coming together" scenarios others have mentioned. . My concern is only what I feel should be boundary in providing emotional support, and secondarily that this emotional support was provided in person while I assumed she was going from point A to B to pick up dinner for the night. Further to that, when I discussed this calmly and made it known it makes me a little uncomfortable - and that such a boundary, if not already in place, will provide a stable platform for our own relationship - I was met with resistance.

A little more background on boundaries: This all came up a few days after I saw a kiss emoji hit her phone via FB from a man I had storngly suspected was inappropriately making a play for her. She routinely discarded this concern. There have been three instances of this over two years. While I was disappointed eahc time, mostly b/c in my view she was being naive about his gestures and saw them as "innocent" - this "kiss" emoji put me over the edge as it is now undeniable. She told me she agreed with my position and that she "can" (not WILL) block him. I came to find out through this exchange that whn she was out with her girlfriends one night, he showed up and hung out with them. She did not tell me. My stance on these matters general falls in the "if you wouldn't do it if your partner was there with you, then..." column. For me, this is enabling him to continue - which is clear given his persistance.

Four days later, no action and no words that demonstrate she values our relationship more than others feelings.

So yeah, with this additional information about the kiss emoji's and the guy showing up to hang out, I'd say she has a major problem establishing and sticking to boundaries.

It's about respect. Respect for you, and respect for your relationship.

All I can say is that I agree with you 100%, and I'd say it's time for you to make a decision. Maybe that will wake her up.

So yeah, with this additional information about the kiss emoji's and the guy showing up to hang out, I'd say she has a major problem establishing and sticking to boundaries.

 

It's about respect. Respect for you, and respect for your relationship.

 

All I can say is that I agree with you 100%, and I'd say it's time for you to make a decision. Maybe that will wake her up.

Thanks LHGirl. That really is how I feel. I do tend to be black & white about certain things - but for me these are fundamental and essential boundaries for any relationship. I feel my trust has been broken by her keeping things from me (night out w/girlfriends where he showed up). She says she didn't say anything b/c she didn't want me to be upset, but - as I explained ot her - NOT telling me and finding out afterwards is far worse. She was upfront about this guy in the beginning - but with each new occurence I grew increasingly annoyed. Her being upfront was a huge win for trust, but now it's backfired. They've known each other for years, but this man's actions threaten our stability and he needs to be shut down in no uncertain terms. The fact that he popped back up two years later is incredibly annoying - and shows she did not do what she said she would by shutting him down back then.

I understand where you are coming from, however, she does have a child with her ex. Her talking to him about something that could effect their child's well being.

I think you should just talk to her about your feelings, that way she can be aware of what is bother you.

a lot of what we feel is in our heads.

Be well!

It is subtle. I suspect what is bothersome is how readily she jumps into fix-it mode for him. The boundary is not (may not be) an intimacy one, but rather a tension between when to help others and when to let them help themselves.

 

(1) Codependency?

Is your gf given to codependent relationships and/or self esteem challenges, or perhaps a childhood wherein her voice was drowned out by all the other goings on? She may have learned to subordinate her needs to the needs of others, and she may have a difficult time learning how to be both kind and responsible. This is a skill that she lacks, and may learn, or may not. It isn't about you, though.

 

If you frame her behavior as her subordinating her own needs to the needs of others, then you find your gf may have this pattern in other ways, including with you. It may be particularly useful for you to step back and appreciate her in this way. Accept that it opens you both up to the occasional interruption, and identify times when you would like her to make a special effort to keep others at a temporary distance.

 

(2) Childhood dynamics

If she is used to being interrupted, it feels like a bump not a mountain; she can accommodate all sorts of twists and turns in her day. This can be a skill in a different context. The downside is, she may not feel the disruption the way you feel it. It is like a non-event to someone who has tolerated disruption and indeed, been encouraged to get along in the midst of change.

 

For yourself, make clear that you would like her home in 30 minutes -- no stopping at the store, a friend's house, or any other errand that may pop up. Make it NOT personal.

 

(3) ADHD?

Finally, consider whether she has ADHD. I do -- emotional and practical interruptions as you describe were nothing to me. Blurry boundaries created chaos which was stimulating. It is fascinating (to me) how ADHD ran through all aspects of my life, not just the to-do list aspects the way people think. Others would see my behavior and interpret it as you have seen here -- and I could not understand their perspectives because my sense of normal was so different.

 

 

It sounds like your relationship is constant in other respects. Don't let this wind you into a fruitless spiral, unless you believe you are in a self-destructive dynamic.

Revisiting this post, OP. Indeed it turns out your gf has porous boundaries.

Also, this is not about you. It isn't. It isn't a choice between attention to others and respect for your feelings. If she were in control of her boundaries, your conclusion would be accurate. She is not in control of her boundaries. Her choices lead to unfair outcomes, outcomes that likely do not match her priorities. This happens not because she is choosing others before you, but because she is abdicating control to others.

The outcome is similar, but the reason underneath is very very different. Therefore, when you approach the conversation, you are met with resistance. Of course you are -- she isn't choosing others over you. To make choices, she would have to be in control, and she isn't. She readily cedes control to others -- likely without even seeing it as a control issue.

Imagine you are in the habit of meeting others' needs, without having a high degree of respect for your own. People pull you in different directions all the time, each person asserting their own needs over your own. That isn't a binary world. It is a world of infinite chaos. A world wherein conflict is difficult because there always is new incoming, the potential for someone else to request her attention, assistance, etc. So, just to get through the chaos, what does she do? Enjoy-slash-tolerate the attention, knowing she will never act on it nor be transgressed physically, and thinking - wrongly - that this allows her to get by without disrupting things.

Your gf is unreliable, in ways some would find superficial if also apparently disrespectful. She is reliable in her affection for you. Her affection is strong and true. Else, her lack of control would have led her into someone else's arms, and it hasn't.

You might choose to let her go, but don't do it because she doesn't love you. She does, as best as she can. She lacks the skills to draw a fence around the two of you that keeps the rest of the world at bay.

What your gf lacks is skill, not affection. This is not about you, it is about whether you can accept who she is.

Having written everything I have, I will say this:

Your relationship has been going on for a long time. Being responsible for a relationship may be beyond your gf's skill set. --- But then, you have been together a long time. So something good is happening.

Also, there is something within her that is also within you. The degree to which you see her behavior as a slight against you MAY be a reflection of your concerns about being lovable. Her porous boundaries may be a reflection of the same fear -- that she is not lovable, and so pleases others and lets other people into her environment because she is afraid to let them go.

We form relationships with people whose relationship with themselves is similar to our own. Consider how your hurt and anger clouds your ability to understand.

Having written everything I have, I will say this:

 

Your relationship has been going on for a long time. Being responsible for a relationship may be beyond your gf's skill set. --- But then, you have been together a long time. So something good is happening.

 

Also, there is something within her that is also within you. The degree to which you see her behavior as a slight against you MAY be a reflection of your concerns about being lovable. Her porous boundaries may be a reflection of the same fear -- that she is not lovable, and so pleases others and lets other people into her environment because she is afraid to let them go.

 

We form relationships with people whose relationship with themselves is similar to our own. Consider how your hurt and anger clouds your ability to understand.

Thanks yet again for your very thoughtful and insightful reply.

So, she is this way and it can't be improved through calm yet firm communication of my needs? From your post, it sounds like I accept this is how she will be and make a decision based on that.

Yes, I see things in her I recognize about myself. Always have. From day one.

I know she loves me. I do not question that. Her relationship skills, I do question. Classic example is she will always make food or go get food and not ask if I'd like some etc. So while I do see her giving attention to others before herself, I can think of few examples where I was the beneficiary of that approach. It does make me feel less important or taken for granted. I'll try hard to not make it about me - but there's a double standard at work there to be sure. I've seen this in other areas also.

Thanks again. Massive help.

Thanks yet again for your very thoughtful and insightful reply.

 

So, she is this way and it can't be improved through calm yet firm communication of my needs? From your post, it sounds like I accept this is how she will be and make a decision based on that.

 

Yes, I see things in her I recognize about myself. Always have. From day one.

 

I know she loves me. I do not question that. Her relationship skills, I do question. Classic example is she will always make food or go get food and not ask if I'd like some etc. So while I do see her giving attention to others before herself, I can think of few examples where I was the beneficiary of that approach. It does make me feel less important or taken for granted. I'll try hard to not make it about me - but there's a double standard at work there to be sure. I've seen this in other areas also.

 

Thanks again. Massive help.

absolutely she cn change. I did.

.. through your firm boundaries? doubtful. the underlying cause is what needs to change within her. a decision within her to assert herself, or even deeper, to address her insecurity, her fear of abandonment. Psychotherapy might help, if she chooses it, wants it, pursues it on her own.

you are growing attached to the fantasy idea of who she will be when she changes. That is the danger here. You've got to let that go. What you have is what you have. Accept her as is. If you don't or can't, then face that.