dating for a little over a decade, but no proposal in sight :(

(sorry for the long post! There's a TLDR at the bottom)

I am an almost 30 year old woman. I have been dating the same guy since I was 17. I like to think that we "grew up together", we got to go through our twenties not feeling weird about our futures because we always had each other, no matter what. We love each other a lot, and I relate to him better than any other person on this planet-- I'm hoping keep this relationship despite everything.

 

While being together for so long is the best, it's also a problem. We've been together more years than some marriages last. For the first 8 years I was never bothered by us not being married. I had other parts of my life to worry about and put effort into. Everyone else annoyingly would ask why we hadn't tied the knot yet, and I would just shrug it off with a bit of humor.

 

He said early on that he only wanted to get married, have kids, etc, after he was done with his PhD (which I felt was fair at the time, it can be a long process). He started that in 2010. After five years in the program (which was supposed to be his last, according to this stipend), every subsequent year after that he would proclaim that "this is the year I'm gonna be finished with it!". It is now 2017 and he's just starting to make some actual head-way-- so who knows how long it will really take.

 

Now, I am starting to feel like there's nothing humorous about it. I've held myself back from traveling (we have only taken one personal week vacation since 2010), I only fantasize about the jobs/opportunities I might be able to apply for in other cities/countries. I've taken very few steps in pushing my life forward in recent years. I don't want to start something good for myself only to stop to plan the wedding I've been waiting for, at the time that HE decides is okay. I feel very stale, unloved, and stupid for having agreed to wait without a proper timeline. I used to be this very independent person, and what I hate about this situation most is that it reveals to me that I wasn't. I was depending on him to enter the next stage of my life, which I was ready to start a few years ago. It's humiliating.

 

We had this long discussion about his conditions for getting married about a year ago. He said that he would take that off the table as a condition, and start to really think about our future together. But we've not talked about it since. It's been a hard year for me because every single person we know is getting married or engaged-- all those couples only having met within the last three years. I've already watched people meet each other, get close, get married, start their lives together, have kids, etc.

 

I feel terrible because I've started to really resent every other couples who are moving forward, because I know that everyone has their version of a dissertation on the sidelines of their wedding. People get married while still in school, people plan weddings through all sorts of personal stuff-- and my boyfriend believes that there wasn't room for our future while he was dragging his feet on his dissertation. I don't wanna pity myself with that fact when I hear about a new engagement or attend a wedding-- I wanna be happy for people! Furthermore, I don't want our proposal to be preceded by one heavy, sad discussion about it. I want to feel like the occasion was right and the timing was far away from an emotional break down. Everyday that goes by makes that less possible for me. If I want that moment I have to go back to the way I was, and just patiently wait without thinking about it. That sucks.

 

I know I shouldn't feel like this if I know someone really loves me, and I know he does (and he really is a great guy outside of this issue-- I promise). I was once this super carefree person who didn't put any worry into these kinds of things and now I feel like a bitter old maid. I worked on my own career (as much as I could in this city), I tried my best to make every other part of my life fulfilling, but it hurts that there's this one important part missing and maybe I'm the only one who thinks it is important. I feel like I'm wasting my life. It sometimes feels like I'm losing the desire to get married to someone who won't make time for this after all these years.

 

I am at my wits end but I don't know if I am just being childishly impatient. Maybe I should give up on being married? At this point I'm just looking for any insight at all.

 

 

TL;DR: dating my boyfriend for a little over a decade. He only wants to get married after he gets is PhD, which started in 2010. I'm getting old, wanna start the next stage of my life but I promised to wait. I feel like I'm wasting my life but I want to be with him for the rest of my life.

Allowing him to dictate the relationship is not fair for you. Relationships are about communication. You need to talk with boyfriend and be straight forward. Do you want to marry me or I'm I wasting my time?

 

Good luck.

How are you wasting your life? Is your life marriage? Is the only possible thing that can be your next step? Why are you putting your life on hold waiting for this one symbol? What is going to change when you get married that is suddenly going to move your life forward?

 

To me it sounds like you are placing way to much weight on the fantasy of what a marriage is. You are expecting it to change/start your life. Why is that? Do you NEED to be married to take the next step of your life?

 

Personally? It sounds like you are unhappy and have decided that marriage is the thing that will fix it. But that isn't how marriage works. If you are frustrated in your career work on your career. If you haven't taken vacations... take vacations! If you need to move to a different place to keep growing: DO IT. You are in charge of your own happiness and fulfillment. A big party and some paperwork isn't going to suddenly make your life have a direction. That is on you.

 

It doesn't seem like you need to give up on the idea. He gave you a time line that hasn't passed. Where is this "all or nothing" energy coming from?

I, too, am curious about how you've "wasted your life."

 

Don't get me wrong, I do think it's kinda cruddy he has dangled marriage in front of you by suggesting it'll happen after his PhD, only to take it 7+ years. But what has stopped you from advancing yourself in the meantime, whether professionally, academically, or socially?

 

Honestly, if it is the case that you really have been relatively idle these 10 years, I think you've set yourself up for failure regardless of whether he up and decides to go to the courthouse tomorrow for the certificate. Feeling like you put yourself on hold for 10 years is a lot of resentment built up for him to try and make up for. On the off-chance things do ever work out and you two are married, please do consider an extensive amount of couples counseling so that resentment doesn't chance a lasting presence.

We had this long discussion about his conditions for getting married about a year ago. He said that he would take that off the table as a condition, and start to really think about our future together. But we've not talked about it since.

Why is it you haven't talked about it since? What's stopping you from bringing it up or subtly showing him brochures on wedding venues?

 

You can't blame him for you stagnating there and doing nothing to fulfill your own education/financial/career goals... that's on you, not him although I can see that it's easy to fall into the trap of blaming someone else for our own procrastination.

 

He's focused on getting his Phd and living his life with you. How about you start being pro-active in communicating your needs and making sure he knows how important it is to you. If after communicating he still doesn't agree to a date then that is when you have to decide for yourself whether or not you're ready to leave him or to coast on like you have been.

 

FWIW: I wanted children by the time I was 30 but the hubby was unsure so I told him that he had four years to decide (we were 26 at the time) and if he still wasn't ready then he didn't have to be the father but I was going to be a mother whether it was with his child or not. We had our daughter when we were 30.

I've taken very few steps in pushing my life forward in recent years. I don't want to start something good for myself only to stop to plan the wedding I've been waiting for, at the time that HE decides is okay.

 

Seriously? If you have to stop your life to plan a wedding - a wedding is just too big or out of control. Lots of people have high level jobs and manage to get married. He told you when its okay - when he finishes his degree. So look for good jobs in your area If you find an exceptional opportunity out of your area, do not take it JUST to get him to act -- talk about where you are interviewing and figure how you are going to work out your commute.

You are absolutely correct in your assessment. You have sacrificed for him and you've gotten nothing in return. No commitment. Nothing. There are so many stories where the gf has put the guy through college, through medical school, through Ph.D programs and the guy finds someone else who's "his equal," or his "soulmate," and leaves the gf flat. You might want to look into the laws of your state concerning common law marriages in case he does that to you. But he could just walk away and you're left with nothing but a broken heart.

 

On the other hand, he's been working on his Ph.D for 7 years? Most people complete theirs in a year or two. What has he been doing all this time? He doesn't seem to be applying himself. How are you supporting yourselves since the stipend ran out? Are you the one earning all the money? Is it really going to lead to a real job, or is he just hanging around university goofing off, still being a boy and not a man. What is his degree in? Is it even marketable? There are a lot of jobless Ph.Ds floating around, too many in some fields.

 

Apparently you're not going to get anywhere having discussions with him. He will come up with endless excuses. And if you threaten to leave, he just might take you up on your offer. You're at a crossroads. You have to make the decision. He won't. You might want an exit strategy in place, like someplace to go if he kicks you out. Like I said, it's an all too common occurrence. If he won't grow up and accept his responsibility you do have to get out before you're indeed too old.

You are absolutely correct in your assessment. You have sacrificed for him and you've gotten nothing in return. No commitment. Nothing.

I so totally disagree with that statement that I'm going to counter. She has certainly gotten something out of the relationship like love, friendship, joint financial benefits, commitment to her alone for 10 years. To proclaim "she got nothing" is saying she is a victim when she has been a volunteer.

 

There are so many stories where the gf has put the guy through college, through medical school, through Ph.D programs and the guy finds someone else who's "his equal," or his "soulmate," and leaves the gf flat.

Yes, well there is no indication in the opening post that this is what this guy is going to do.

 

You might want to look into the laws of your state concerning common law marriages in case he does that to you. But he could just walk away and you're left with nothing but a broken heart.

Or... she could just bring up their conversation again that they had a year ago about him no longer going to wait until his Phd and will marry her sooner and find out when they can actually set the date without jumping to your conclusions.

 

No offense just countering.

 

On the other hand, he's been working on his Ph.D for 7 years? Most people complete theirs in a year or two.

A doctor in a year or two? Really?

Apparently you're not going to get anywhere having discussions with him. He will come up with endless excuses.

You don't know that.

And if you threaten to leave, he just might take you up on your offer.

She doesn't have to threaten to leave she just has to have some boundaries about it in place and if he's not on the same page as her then she just leaves but she shouldn't blame him for her having volunteered to agree to his terms.

 

You're at a crossroads. You have to make the decision.

This I agree with but certainly not before she brings up the discussion they had wherein he agreed with her that they shouldn't wait until he gets his degree.

(I just read over my response-- it sounds a bit combative but I do not mean it to sound that way. I'm just trying to figure stuff out with a listening ear. I'm terrible at articulating my emotions over text-- please stick with me)

 

I agree with you, marriage doesn't change or fix anything if there are other problems. And you're right, marriage isn't everything-- we live like a married couple already and I live my life the way I want it, and it's fine. And, honestly, there's nothing to fix other than "not being married" in my life. I'm almost pretty happy with my career (give or take one of those out of town opportunities I mentioned), my hobbies, my friends, family, and pretty happy with our relationship outside of this problem.

 

But, here's why I'm here: I have been with someone for a long time and I want to make that official--yes, including a silly fun party and just get it over with-- I mean why not? I'm someone who has had to work on their self esteem throughout the years-- there were times that I didn't believe I deserved anything good from anyone. I am an agreeable person, someone who is concerned with other people being comfortable over myself (most times), and not wanting to really ever make a fuss over stupid things. But, at a certain point I gotta look after what I want in life. In the last 2 years is really when it has started to become important for me. You're right there are other stages in life, some that overlap, but this is also a valid stage for someone. I believe that there is nothing wrong with defining "the next stage" of my life as marriage and children because that IS one of the bigger next stages for me-- I've done almost everything else I've wanted to within my ability (aside from some opportunities here and there). If this was back at year 7, I wouldn't be here asking for help on the whole "marriage isn't everything" because it wasn't important back then. But, if I'm feeling like the person I've chosen as my partner won't make the commitment to legally and spiritually spend our lives together, then what am I supposed to think; am I supposed to be okay? Why would it be so horrible to take just one day out of one of these years to just get married and have a day of fun celebrating our relationship? We don't do anniversaries or valentines anything like that, so marriage is exciting to me! If the PhD is taking so long then what does it matter for us? Why can't we be married while we pursue other things? Why should I have to sit and wait and wonder if our union will ever be important? Is there really anything in this world that can replace that feeling? I would argue that in this stage of our extremely long relationship: no, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

You're right, I could take vacations, I could make big life decisions, I could take those opportunities-- but the crux of making those big decisions is that I would have to decide to do all those things without him. Really? Have nice memories of vacation with other people? Take that job overseas and move alone? Have my loved one missing from all life's fun adventures while still being a couple? That seems utterly meaningless. Then he likes having a roommate, not a partner. Then I have to ask what has this love and life together all been for? That is what would feel like a waste.

Well here's the thing: I have been through school. I have a good job, I've been making my life count in other ways. Obviously, there's always other ways to get better on my own-- I agree with that. But that being said, why is it so wrong for me to want to get married? Why should I have to keep adding new projects and goals to my own list while he takes his time? What I fear that what if he decides he doesn't want to be with me when he's completed? What will my life have been all this time?

Well here's the thing: I have been through school. I have a good job, I've been making my life count in other ways. Obviously, there's always other ways to get better on my own-- I agree with that. But that being said, why is it so wrong for me to want to get married? Why should I have to keep adding new projects and goals to my own list while he takes his time? What I fear that what if he decides he doesn't want to be with me when he's completed? What will my life have been all this time?

 

Your life would have been shared with a man that I think (beginning to wonder) that you love and who loved you. You did say this:

know I shouldn't feel like this if I know someone really loves me, and I know he does (and he really is a great guy outside of this issue-- I promise).

Do you have your doubts about marrying this man now and that is why you don't just ask him when you can set the date? He's agreed that you should marry before he finishes his schooling... or to at least think on marriage sooner.

 

I don't understand why you're making an issue out of this when he's agreed. You DID say this:

We had this long discussion about his conditions for getting married about a year ago. He said that he would take that off the table as a condition, and start to really think about our future together. But we've not talked about it since.

Reinstate the discussion and then come back and tell us what he has to say.

So we earn about equal pay- there's no worries about who is supporting whom. I'm long graduated from college, I have two jobs. When he ran out of the stipend he got a job and has been struggling with the PhD because he's been getting cushy at his day job (which actually is in his field of study, so he's gotten his dream job without graduting) He waffles between dropping out of the program it and then not dropping out of it (since he has the job). He has stated it himself that he's just been dragging it on because he is insecure about the research or the writing isn't going well (whatever it is). I don't want to judge why it's taken so long-- it could go on forever if he wants. All I want is to make our personal lives a priority for a little bit-- all it is one day.

No, of course, I was exaggerating when I said I would have to stop my life. I wouldn't have to stop my life. And, your point has been that it doesn't take a lot of effort to plan a wedding-- which is why I don't understand why the decision to actually get married has taken so long. my point was that I was upset because it has been dragging forever, and let's say I decide to go back to school for another degree, because I decided to take another step in another direction. Then maybe I wouldn't be in the right stage of my life to get married?

What I fear that what if he decides he doesn't want to be with me when he's completed? What will my life have been all this time?

 

You know he can still leave you if you are married.

 

You want marriage. I get it. It's SUPER IMPORTANT to you. So much so that you are one foot out the door if it doesn't show up?

 

What I don't understand is, he's on board for getting married. Everything he has said is that you are the person he chooses to build a life with and that he wants to marry you. You wanted it to happen on a different time line and he agreed to that. Do you believe him? Do you trust him? Why are you assuming it isn't going to happen?

Your life would have been shared with a man that I think (beginning to wonder) that you love and who loved you. You did say this: Do you have your doubts about marrying this man now and that is why you don't just ask him when you can set the date? He's agreed that you should marry before he finishes his schooling... or to at least think on marriage sooner.

 

I don't understand why you're making an issue out of this when he's agreed. You DID say this:

 

Reinstate the discussion and then come back and tell us what he has to say.

 

I do love him, and he does love me. I think that his love isn't in question, it's just that if he wants to grow up and make a gesture that I think would just be nice after all this time. He's a really smart guy, and really sensitive and respectful, but he likes to things in his own time and own way. And, as for the last 2 years, that's been costing me the faith in that he actually wants to marry me.

 

Someone said to him once "your dissertation should be the worst body of work you do in your career" meaning that you should work hard on it, do your best, but don't let it take over your life because you'll do so much better work once you use it to move forward. He has never taken that to heart and has let this thing become larger than life at the expense of our freedom of movement (physically and clearly emotionally)

 

You're right he did agree on letting it slide as a condition. But, he doesn't really talk about wanting to spend our lives together he doesn't have an interest in having discussions about what he hopes our lives will be. That silence is a little scary.

You're right he did agree on letting it slide as a condition. But, he doesn't really talk about wanting to spend our lives together he doesn't have an interest in having discussions about what he hopes our lives will be. That silence is a little scary.

I think many (most?) couples who have been together for a long time and haven't yet married become complacent about that step. If all is going well with the status quo and the one who wants to get married is enabling the other not to have to, then why rock the boat is often the sate of mind.

 

Start the conversation and then start to feel scared if he's purposefully hedging/stalling/outright not wanting to. Right now, you have nothing to worry about except complacency. (on your part and his because you've certainly not discussed anything further just as he hasn't).

You know he can still leave you if you are married.

 

You want marriage. I get it. It's SUPER IMPORTANT to you. So much so that you are one foot out the door if it doesn't show up?

 

What I don't understand is, he's on board for getting married. Everything he has said is that you are the person he chooses to build a life with and that he wants to marry you. You wanted it to happen on a different time line and he agreed to that. Do you believe him? Do you trust him? Why are you assuming it isn't going to happen?

 

You're right, he could leave me at any time.

 

If it doesn't show up...ever? I'd like to be with someone who could make a big decision, even if there's a possibility that marriage itself doesn't last?

 

I guess I assume that it's not going to happen because he hesitates to talk about it any future plans at all-- and when he does it's jokingly and not at all "for real". I sometimes think (and this isn't his words or thoughts, these are my own paranoid thoughts) that perhaps he used the timeline of his dissertation on when we could get married because he views it as such a big, overwhelming commitment. That perhaps he uses the degree as an excuse not to talk about it? He's a very hesitant and cautious guy when it comes to big decisions that he doesn't have all the facts about- and sometimes has a bit of an issue making large decisions. And, it worries me that he may not "have all the facts", which is why he's hesitating. After a decade what more does one need to know? I'm sure you know someone similar like this? I guess what I deeply want is for him to show me that he loves me in the same way that I've shown him I love him by sticking by him all these years. I know it sounds stupid that I need a wedding to validate that. If you would have asked me years ago if that was right, I would have told you otherwise. I don't know what it is, in the last few years it feels like that would be like a big "thank you" gift for being his cheerleader all these years.

You're right, he could leave me at any time.

 

If it doesn't show up...ever? I'd like to be with someone who could make a big decision, even if there's a possibility that marriage itself doesn't last?

 

I guess I assume that it's not going to happen because he hesitates to talk about it any future plans at all-- and when he does it's jokingly and not at all "for real". I sometimes think (and this isn't his words or thoughts, these are my own paranoid thoughts) that perhaps he used the timeline of his dissertation on when we could get married because he views it as such a big, overwhelming commitment. That perhaps he uses the degree as an excuse not to talk about it? He's a very hesitant and cautious guy when it comes to big decisions that he doesn't have all the facts about- and sometimes has a bit of an issue making large decisions. And, it worries me that he may not "have all the facts", which is why he's hesitating. After a decade what more does one need to know? I'm sure you know someone similar like this? I guess what I deeply want is for him to show me that he loves me in the same way that I've shown him I love him by sticking by him all these years. I know it sounds stupid that I need a wedding to validate that. If you would have asked me years ago if that was right, I would have told you otherwise. I don't know what it is, in the last few years it feels like that would be like a big "thank you" gift for being his cheerleader all these years.

 

That is so well put and honest. I would tell him that.

You're right, he could leave me at any time.

 

If it doesn't show up...ever? I'd like to be with someone who could make a big decision, even if there's a possibility that marriage itself doesn't last?

 

I guess I assume that it's not going to happen because he hesitates to talk about it any future plans at all-- and when he does it's jokingly and not at all "for real". I sometimes think (and this isn't his words or thoughts, these are my own paranoid thoughts) that perhaps he used the timeline of his dissertation on when we could get married because he views it as such a big, overwhelming commitment. That perhaps he uses the degree as an excuse not to talk about it? He's a very hesitant and cautious guy when it comes to big decisions that he doesn't have all the facts about- and sometimes has a bit of an issue making large decisions. And, it worries me that he may not "have all the facts", which is why he's hesitating. After a decade what more does one need to know? I'm sure you know someone similar like this? I guess what I deeply want is for him to show me that he loves me in the same way that I've shown him I love him by sticking by him all these years. I know it sounds stupid that I need a wedding to validate that. If you would have asked me years ago if that was right, I would have told you otherwise. I don't know what it is, in the last few years it feels like that would be like a big "thank you" gift for being his cheerleader all these years.

All of that is YOU guessing at what he MIGHT be consciously or sub-consciously harboring. ONCE AGAIN: Talk to him and get what is going on with him. Hopefully he will be honest and if he's not giving you the answer(s) you want then you can relay your fears to him about what you THINK he may be experiencing.

Sue.

 

"it feels like that would be like a big "thank you" gift for being his cheerleader all these years."

 

Marriage is not a "thank you gift", it's a serious commitment, a contract and a lot of other things besides. It isn't a sort of present or bonus payment to you for being a good "employee" all these years.

 

Maybe time to call it a day, Sue?

Personally, I think you should talk to him and then follow it up with a separation from each other. Along the lines of: I love you, I would like to spend the rest of my life with you but right now I need to move forward with my life. If you decide you want to move forward with me, reach out to me.

 

Why? Because even if he does decide to get married to you, you will need to know that it was by his own free will and that he was not coerced into it. Why? Because you are slowly starting to resent the whole dating process.

 

I think sometimes you need to take a few steps backwards to move forwards. A decade IS a very long time and I feel like it might be less about the marriage and more about moving forward, starting a family, moving into a new phase. He might not be the person for you to do that with. If it means a lot to you, you might need to seek that out elsewhere. He will know where to reach you and I DO think if you leave it on a good note and make it clear why you are doing what you are doing, if he wants to spend his life with you he will fight for it when he is ready. He will let you know. If he is lukewarm and doesn't you will at least be spending your life how you want to. Consider it and keep us updated on what you decide to do.

"I agree with you, marriage doesn't change or fix anything if there are other problems. And you're right, marriage isn't everything-- we live like a married couple already and I live my life the way I want it, and it's fine. And, honestly, there's nothing to fix other than "not being married" in my life. I'm almost pretty happy with my career (give or take one of those out of town opportunities I mentioned), my hobbies, my friends, family, and pretty happy with our relationship outside of this problem. "

 

Please please do not discount marriage as a "symbol" or a "piece of paper" -unless that is all it is to you -and if it is, fine but then I doubt you'd be writing this in the first place. And it's not about the party either (I planned our wedding in less than 7 weeks and it was the most magical and natural day of my life - 10 guests at my inlaws' home and we were 42, first marriage for both).

 

Have you proposed to him ever?

 

So decide how important getting married is - and what it means to you. To us it meant so much - a deepening of our commitment, part of starting our family, part of joining each other's families, a huge milestone. And yes I have friends who are not married and they don't want to be married (well in one case he might want to but he's fine with it) - and I don't think of them as "unmarried" or "less committed" (in fact they might be more committed than we are in certain ways, who knows).

 

If it means a lot to you -never ever apologize for that. Never let anyone trivialize it's meaning and value to you. And I'm not talking about a wedding reception -the wedding, the exchanging of vows, etc.

 

If you want children you have time - but if it were me I would try to start trying before age 35. It was a miracle for me to get pregnant naturally at almost 42 but it was really stressful too because of all the risks.

 

I agree that he hasn't stopped you from traveling, taking vacations, living your life other than dating others if you two are exclusive. I have married friends who vacation separately and many coupled friends who do that too - in today's world especially if each has a career vacation time might not match up and desires of where to go might not either. I vacationed alone several times before I was married and since then -no -but that's because we have a young child. Live your life in every way other than dating others behind his back.

 

And, internally decide -if he was never going to marry you how long would you stay?