He talks about other people a lot. Red flag?

I'm seeing this guy who have some things about him that are off to me but I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into it, so some thoughts from you guys would be appreciated.

From the dates we've been on, I noticed he complains about his friends a lot and also just people in general. Like:

-he doesn't like his friend's wife because she's pushy and his friend is a pushover and how he thinks their marriage won't last long.

-he made fun of our waitress because she "looks like she has no personality" and called her a robot

-he talked **** about another friend's wife for not being sociable enough with her husband's friends at a party

-he spent almost a whole night complaining about how one of his friends flaked on him and how much he hates flakes.

There are other things but I noticed there's a pattern of him speaking badly about his friends' girlfriends and wives as if being tied down is a really bad thing. Makes me wonder if that is why he is still single at his age while most of his friends are married (he's 38, I'm 26). I also haven't dated much in my adult life because I have only been in one relationship which lasted for 6 years, so I don't know if this is normal of guys? I know most women gossip a lot, but what does it say about a man who openly speaks badly of his friends and strangers to a woman he just started seeing?

Another thing.. in the beginning he was really reluctant to tell me his exact age even though I already knew he's significantly much older than me and that he must be somewhere in his late 30's. It took awhile for me to get it out of him. Do you guys think he's embarrassed to tell me his age because he knows I'm a lot younger than he is? I also noticed that he has a history of dating mostly girls that are in their 20's. Don't know if that's another red flag..

Did you ever discussed to him openly, and see wats the expectations

From this very useful and enlightening article by Dr. Joseph Carver. Read it and see what you think.

"16. The Waitress Test It's been said that when dating, the way an individual treats a waitress or other neutral person of the opposite sex is the way they will treat you in six months. During the "honeymoon phase" of a relationship, you will be treated like a king or queen. However, during that time "The Loser" has not forgotten how he or she basically feels about the opposite sex. Waitresses, clerks, or other neutral individuals will be treated badly. If they are cheap - you'll never receive anything once the honeymoon is over. If they whine, complain, criticize, and torment - that's how they'll treat you in six months. A mentally healthy person is consistent, they treat almost all people the same way all the time. If you find yourself dating a man who treats you like a queen and other females like dirt - hit the road."

I'll be honest. I'll make fun of folks (myself included) for some kicks. I don't even really have a problem with poking fun at a humorously monotoned waitress. Wouldn't joke in her face and would otherwise treat her as politely as anyone else and give her a proper tip, but I'm not above making a funny comment about it to the person with me.

But that's not everyone's humor. And, really, in your case, it doesn't sound like the guy is dressing it up with any even if it would be your style. Just sounds like he's chronically griping about people, which is a pretty universally annoying trait. Not sure if I'd call it a red flag for anything much deeper other than maybe he's a bit unhappier or more pessimistic than the average guy. But it does seem he's presenting who he is, so just get ready for more regular whining should you continue on. I personally wouldn't do it, but who knows... maybe you like to moan about people as well and you'd be two peas in a pod. In any case, it's up to you how much that kind of thing weighs against the rest of what he's got to offer.

I'd say goodbye to the whiny little bi$@&

Sounds to me you would get a headache after awhile with all his complaining. Not to mention drained from his negativity. I think it's best to move on from him. He's a real kill Joy.

Lisa

From this very useful and enlightening article by Dr. Joseph Carver. Read it and see what you think.

 

 

 

"16. The Waitress Test It's been said that when dating, the way an individual treats a waitress or other neutral person of the opposite sex is the way they will treat you in six months. During the "honeymoon phase" of a relationship, you will be treated like a king or queen. However, during that time "The Loser" has not forgotten how he or she basically feels about the opposite sex. Waitresses, clerks, or other neutral individuals will be treated badly. If they are cheap - you'll never receive anything once the honeymoon is over. If they whine, complain, criticize, and torment - that's how they'll treat you in six months. A mentally healthy person is consistent, they treat almost all people the same way all the time. If you find yourself dating a man who treats you like a queen and other females like dirt - hit the road."

This is so very true.

You can tell a lot about a guy you are interested in, just by going out to dinner with him. If the way he treats the server, regardless of their sex.

He will NEVER change and he will REALLY get on your nerves, after a while.

Also, he is a jerk. His is not just saying 'funny' things. He is outright mean.

From this very useful and enlightening article by Dr. Joseph Carver. Read it and see what you think.

 

 

 

"16. The Waitress Test It's been said that when dating, the way an individual treats a waitress or other neutral person of the opposite sex is the way they will treat you in six months. During the "honeymoon phase" of a relationship, you will be treated like a king or queen. However, during that time "The Loser" has not forgotten how he or she basically feels about the opposite sex. Waitresses, clerks, or other neutral individuals will be treated badly. If they are cheap - you'll never receive anything once the honeymoon is over. If they whine, complain, criticize, and torment - that's how they'll treat you in six months. A mentally healthy person is consistent, they treat almost all people the same way all the time. If you find yourself dating a man who treats you like a queen and other females like dirt - hit the road."

I'm a huge believer in this. The saying goes that a person who isn't nice to the waiter isn't a nice person, and while there are outliers to this (someone having an awful day and so they take it out on the first outlet they find...but, they usually show remorse afterward)... it's pretty spot on usually.

My hubby and I LOVE to gossip and make dumb assumptions about people, and talk about our friends. Heck, once you're married you earned a partner in crime. And in the same token, hands down, we are also the couple that literally will drop everything to help you with whatever you need, even strangers. Moving to a new place, help with you paper, project, watch your kid, and we are also very nice to everyone. So, I dunno. Sure, gossip is bad, but when you have zero drama in your life (cuz you are just really happy), you tend to live vicariously through others. Probably why I visit this site most days I have lunch at work.

Was he mean to the waitress, or did he just say she had no personality (to you only)? Sometimes people try to build rapport in dumb ways. He thinks it's a way of saying how great you are, when all that comes out in how bland the other person was. I guess you haven't met his friends yet, then? If he's super polite to people, then he probably just likes to gossip.

So, Olivi, what is so great about HIM? He sounds utterly boring.

"-he doesn't like his friend's wife because she's pushy and his friend is a pushover and how he thinks their marriage won't last long.

-he made fun of our waitress because she "looks like she has no personality" and called her a robot

-he talked **** about another friend's wife for not being sociable enough with her husband's friends at a party

-he spent almost a whole night complaining about how one of his friends flaked on him and how much he hates flakes. "

and worse again:

"I noticed there's a pattern of him speaking badly about his friends' girlfriends and wives as if being tied down is a really bad thing."

You have evidently not been dating for long, so tell me, what is there in this relationship for YOU. What does he bring to the table?

As you say:

"but what does it say about a man who openly speaks badly of his friends and strangers to a woman he just started seeing? "

I wouldn't give him the time of day.

This is not a case of a little fun gossip. He sounds like a right turnip. L.

At the very least, he's a backstabber. I don't trust people that are constantly trashing other people behind their backs... you could be next.

At the very least, he's a backstabber. I don't trust people that are constantly trashing other people behind their backs... you could be next.

Yesssss. A backstabbing whiney a$$. Find yourself a real man.

So, Olivi, what is so great about HIM? He sounds utterly boring.

 

"-he doesn't like his friend's wife because she's pushy and his friend is a pushover and how he thinks their marriage won't last long.

-he made fun of our waitress because she "looks like she has no personality" and called her a robot

-he talked **** about another friend's wife for not being sociable enough with her husband's friends at a party

-he spent almost a whole night complaining about how one of his friends flaked on him and how much he hates flakes. "

 

 

and worse again:

 

"I noticed there's a pattern of him speaking badly about his friends' girlfriends and wives as if being tied down is a really bad thing."

 

You have evidently not been dating for long, so tell me, what is there in this relationship for YOU. What does he bring to the table?

 

As you say:

 

"but what does it say about a man who openly speaks badly of his friends and strangers to a woman he just started seeing? "

 

I wouldn't give him the time of day.

 

This is not a case of a little fun gossip. He sounds like a right turnip. L.

That is a really good question..

Well I initially liked him because of how easygoing/easy to talk he was. I'm told most guys are sort of hesitant to approach me because I look intimidating/stuck up because of my looks, but honestly it's really just that I'm shy so it comes off that way. He's one of the few guys that don't care and struck up a conversation with me like I'm already one of his friends, which made me feel really comfortable around him. He's also funny without seeming like he tries too hard, and it also helps that he's extremely good looking and in shape for his age.

I think the age gap also has something to do with my attraction to him.. at his age he already has most of his stuff together. He has a stable career, he travels a lot, and a whole lot more life experience than I do so I look up to him sort of. It's just this thing about him talking about his friends a lot that bothers me. It just makes it seems like he is easily irked, for lack of a better word, by them, and it's even worse that he talks about them to someone like me because we're still new and I don't consider us that close for him to talk about his friends like that. Maybe it's just me.. I get annoyed by people too but I'm not the type to talk about them to someone else unless I'm really close to this other person. I wouldn't just complain about my close friends and family to a guy I just started seeing.

I have to be honest though. I don't have the healthiest self-esteem due to a failed relationship in the past so I'm not seeing things clearly. Logically, I know this guy is not really the one for me because I keep getting a feeling in my gut that something is off about him, something not trustworthy.. but emotionally, all I know is that I like his attention and I want him to want me. The more he pulls away, which is exactly what he is doing right now, the more I want him. It has gotten to a point where I have anxiety waiting for the next time he calls me.

That's what I'm thinking too. But I wasn't sure if I was reading too much into what could be normal to other people(it's not normal to me because I don't do it).

That's what I'm thinking too. But I wasn't sure if I was reading too much into what could be normal to other people(it's not normal to me because I don't do it).

 

Another thing.. in the beginning he was really reluctant to tell me his exact age even though I already knew he's significantly much older than me and that he must be somewhere in his late 30's. It took awhile for me to get it out of him. Do you guys think he's embarrassed to tell me his age because he knows I'm a lot younger than he is? I also noticed that he has a history of dating mostly girls that are in their 20's. Don't know if that's another red flag..

I hate people who act like this man. Going negative on other people is their way of thinking that they're better then others. He is purely delusional.

This has nothing to do with how little you've been dating. The only reason for you to continue being with someone like this, is if you favor this kind of personality. And, you clearly don't care for this kind of mentality.

Also, I know men like him. They date younger women (20s) because they can more easily control them with their so-called superior experience/personality. It's harder for them to control women their own age. You'll have to determine whether he fits this profile.

So, Olivi, what is so great about HIM? He sounds utterly boring.

 

"-he doesn't like his friend's wife because she's pushy and his friend is a pushover and how he thinks their marriage won't last long.

-he made fun of our waitress because she "looks like she has no personality" and called her a robot

-he talked **** about another friend's wife for not being sociable enough with her husband's friends at a party

-he spent almost a whole night complaining about how one of his friends flaked on him and how much he hates flakes. "

 

 

and worse again:

 

"I noticed there's a pattern of him speaking badly about his friends' girlfriends and wives as if being tied down is a really bad thing."

 

You have evidently not been dating for long, so tell me, what is there in this relationship for YOU. What does he bring to the table?

 

As you say:

 

"but what does it say about a man who openly speaks badly of his friends and strangers to a woman he just started seeing? "

 

I wouldn't give him the time of day.

 

This is not a case of a little fun gossip. He sounds like a right turnip. L.

Wrote a lengthy reply to this but was told it has to be checked by the moderators. It's awhile ago though but I'll wait and see it gets posted before reposting.

I hate people who act like this man. Going negative on other people is their way of thinking that they're better then others. He is purely delusional.

 

This has nothing to do with how little you've been dating. The only reason for you to continue being with someone like this, is if you favor this kind of personality. And, you clearly don't care for this kind of mentality.

SoulTaker can you please further explain since you said you know men like this? I also thought that maybe he's like this, but he's also so easygoing and chill the other half of the time I don't know if I should put this label on him yet. So far he hasn't shown any signs of being controlling or bossy considering he's more than 10 years older than me, but I do get a sense that he doesn't take criticism very well, even if it's just something very little said by someone else. He does have a history of hitting on many women in their 20's/early 30's though, not women his age. I just find it weird that he was so hesitant to tell me how old he is. I mean, he obviously looks way older than I do, and he's always bringing up how he's in his 30's anyway, so I don't get why he kept beating around the bush wen I ask exactly how old is he.

And when he talks about other people, he says it in a way where it sounds really casual (idk if that makes sense) so it doesn't sound like moaning/complaining. It still stood out to me though.

The thing is, he has A LOT of friends. He's the type of guy that gets invited everywhere. I'm wondering if he does this often, how can he have any friends, let alone a huge social circle, unless this is considered normal behavior.

So another perspective. Perhaps increase your dating pool by looking and acting more approachable and by being in environments that encourage approachable and more open behavior? And so you're not too attractive to men who are just looking for a challenge or arm candy.

I agree he sounds whiny/negative.

Go with your gut, Olivi. You have, fortunately, seen the red flags.

"Logically, I know this guy is not really the one for me because I keep getting a feeling in my gut that something is off about him, something not trustworthy.. "

Individuals who are too glib and too quick at moving in on you. Note that word "glib".

It isn't just that he has this habit of being unpleasant about other people.

You are sensing something else. And...so am I.

This is bad news:

"The more he pulls away, which is exactly what he is doing right now, the more I want him. It has gotten to a point where I have anxiety waiting for the next time he calls me."

He is playing games, OP, and he is enjoying the games. That is how individuals like him are.

And it has nothing to do with your age, or his age. Anyone will do, provided they are fodder for his games.

Of course he gets invited to all sorts of places. People tend to see what they want to see.

"GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM — The tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example."

"SHALLOW AFFECT — Emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness."

LasHermes your last post really opened my eyes. The something "off" that I was talking about? The shallow affect that you mentioned is exactly it. I couldn't figure out how he is sooo sociable yet I had a really hard time actually connecting with him. It's like as if he doesn't really have any emotional depth to him and I was driving myself crazy to get to that "special tenderness". Or maybe, he's just not that into me. Either way, I've decided to let this one go. I'd rather be miserable now and eventually get over it and move on than to keep dragging this on, continuing to see him and trying to figure him out. Being with him brings out the worst in me, anxiety and all. Thank you everyone for your thoughts, it helped a bunch!

SoulTaker can you please further explain since you said you know men like this? I also thought that maybe he's like this, but he's also so easygoing and chill the other half of the time I don't know if I should put this label on him yet. So far he hasn't shown any signs of being controlling or bossy considering he's more than 10 years older than me, but I do get a sense that he doesn't take criticism very well, even if it's just something very little said by someone else. He does have a history of hitting on many women in their 20's/early 30's though, not women his age. I just find it weird that he was so hesitant to tell me how old he is. I mean, he obviously looks way older than I do, and he's always bringing up how he's in his 30's anyway, so I don't get why he kept beating around the bush wen I ask exactly how old is he.

 

And when he talks about other people, he says it in a way where it sounds really casual (idk if that makes sense) so it doesn't sound like moaning/complaining. It still stood out to me though.

 

The thing is, he has A LOT of friends. He's the type of guy that gets invited everywhere. I'm wondering if he does this often, how can he have any friends, let alone a huge social circle, unless this is considered normal behavior.

You're not one of his friends. You are someone he is hitting on. I'm not automatically placing this man in this category, but I know men who go after young women because they can get their way with them (e.g. get them quickly into bed).

He's probably quite a charmer (outgoing). To answer your original question, he's not a normal date (plenty of red flags). You have enough initial info on him to know whether to keeping dating him, or move on. My vote would be to move on.