Opinions: Would you kick out my housemate?

Sorry this is long, but it's been driving me nuts for months.

For the most part, my housemate pays rent and bills on time so I am having trouble deciding whether her other behaviour is grounds for asking her to leave. Before she moved in I sent her a written subtenancy agreement (I am the primary leaseholder) which included vague guidelines about tidiness, maintenance and ensuring compliance/respect with agreed house rules. I didn't go into too much detail in the agreement as I wanted to give her some degree of good faith - I naively hold a belief that if you treat people with respect and trust then they are significantly more likely to act in a way that is consistent with this.

However, since she moved in less than four months ago, the following things have happened:

- Often, people subletting rooms here in Australia don't pay bond/rent until the day they move in. Immediately after moving in, she asked to change the way that she pays bond so that she gets included on my tenancy plan with the real estate agent. I flatly refused (as it's impossible) but she insisted, so I arranged a formal, local government-managed account for her to pay her bond into individually. The whole process took about 4 weeks so she didn't pay me bond until that date.

- She paid two weeks rent up front the day she moved in, however when her next payment was due she "forgot" to clarify which day I wanted rent paid and ended up paying it 5 days late. I asked her to subsequently pay two weeks in advance but on a weekly basis. She ignored this and set her rent up to one week in advance weekly - I was annoyed when I found out but accepted this because if she's only ever one week in advance, then the minimum time frame I need in order to ask her to leave is 1 week.

- I drew up a cleaning schedule and she frequently delayed her turn cleaning the house by a few days, at times only doing certain parts she felt she needed to. Because I get groceries delivered, she also made it my job to replace cleaning/communal products - that includes going through the house and identifying what's missing, ordering it, having it delivered and replacing it, then working out the shared cost and billing her for it once in a while. She basically just uses stuff now without a thought as to where it's come from, but she does pay when I ask her to.

- She didn't take the trash/recycling out at all for the first six weeks, so when I eventually instructed her that recycling was her job, she started taking it out once a fortnight after it's been overflowing for about a week. I take the trash out every 4-5 days.

- I also suggested laundry days that worked around her work schedule, she agreed the first two times but continued to just do her laundry whenever she felt like it (often on my days). Third time I spoke to her, she reluctantly said "Okay but I don't know when I'll be able to do laundry so we'll just keep the schedule as a rough guide" - she then did her laundry on my days immediately after this conversation. She's pretty much always home to do laundry on the original days we agreed to, she just gets lazy.

- One of the clauses in the contract is "guests by negotiation" - I explained to her a couple of times that all this means is shooting each other a text when we're having guests over just so the other person isn't caught off guard (e.g.) getting out of the shower or sick and laying around in their pyjamas. She has ignored this three times, last night bringing home a guy - they woke me up twice during the night. Tried to whisper but she was stomping/banging things

- I've tried to address individual issues with her, and when she initially moved in we had a few decent 'getting to know you' conversations. However, she began talking over the top of me, interrupting me and generally having an opinion on everything. She isn't very bright/educated, whereas I have a fair amount of tertiary education behind me, and she'd often say blatantly false things to me and smirk and be like "You didn't know that? Ha". A couple times I actually bothered to show her scientific research to gently steer things back on track, but very quickly gave up on trying to be her friend. The biggest issue was when I tried to address the laundry schedules and noise she makes, she would talk over me so much about her own thoughts/issues from her day, she either didn't hear what I said or didn't acknowledge it. I tried many times. A few times I was forceful/assertive and she did make minor improvements with the cleaning schedule - left her notes/texts that she ignored about noise (banging/stomping/slamming doors early in the morning) and she's only marginally improved.

I feel like I make too many excuses for her not being bright and just being a bit too self absorbed - in reality, it's gotten to the point where I'm thinking she's just entitled and disrespectful. So long as she pays rent on time, her behaviour can be subpar and I'll just have to deal with that because she doesn't feel like obeying my "rules"? (Which are only there for mutual respect and a peaceful living arrangement). I'm actually really sick this weekend so the fact she brought home a guy without asking me has bothered me to no end. I almost don't want to tell her that my long distance boyfriend is coming to stay for a week, so she can see how it feels to be disrespected - but for the record, I'm definitely not that petty. My aunt has told me that she's not a "nightmare" housemate, but my friend said "she doesn't deserve respect when she's going to disrespect you like that all the time".

I don't know what to think. It could be way, way, way worse. But should I put up with disrespect for the sake of getting rent paid on time? I feel like life is too short to deal with that kind of behaviour, but maybe this is the worst it'll get?

Also for the record: It took me about 5-6 weeks to get her in originally, so replacing her could leave me slightly out of pocket

Opinions: Would you kick out my housemate?

In one word: YES

I wouldn't deal with a person like that. Too many issues and it would make living in your home, hell.

I don't think I could live with someone who wants to dictate a laundry schedule.

I spend maybe 2 hours a week going laundry. So what if it's the same day you want to use the laundry? It's two hours.

I don't know. You seem a bit controlling to me. I agree your roommate sounds annoying, but I couldn't live with you either.

I think you need to lighten up, and stop referring to her as being not very "bright" "not obeying your rules", etc. Rather than talk above her, why not talk to her as an equal? Keep in mind that respect goes both ways.

Of course it's your call, but using a different approach may be the way to start.

I don't think I could live with someone who wants to dictate a laundry schedule.

 

I spend maybe 2 hours a week going laundry. So what if it's the same day you want to use the laundry? It's two hours.

 

I don't know. You seem a bit controlling to me. I agree your roommate sounds annoying, but I couldn't live with you either.

She wanted to use my drying rack and didn't want to buy her own. Clothes take about two days to dry. I don't think it's controlling since we agreed on these things before she moved in - I didn't just tell her she had to follow my rules. I explained to her that we would draw up a cleaning roster including laundry days in order to avoid any disagreements, and she agreed to that multiple times. If she didn't like it, she shouldn't have moved in?

Also I've asked her multiple times whether she thinks the cleaning roster is unfair and she said no, it's completely fair. I think she likes the idea of how things are run because it means the place is clean, orderly and shared items are always in stock - she just doesn't feel responsibility for playing an equal part in that, so she says "yes, that's great" and then doesn't fulfil her side?

I think you need to lighten up, and stop referring to her as being not very "bright" "not obeying your rules", etc. Rather than talk above her, why not talk to her as an equal? Keep in mind that respect goes both ways.

 

Of course it's your call, but using a different approach may be the way to start.

I have wondered if I'm perhaps being unreasonable, but I think you've missed the part where it's she who talks above me, not the other way around thus I can't find any way to communicate with her as an equal because she ignores notes/texts and doesn't listen to me when I speak because she just talks over the top of me. I have actually tried very hard to communicate with her

The issue may be less that she's not bright, and more that she's not very self aware? The rules for behaviour were mutually agreed upon prior to her moving in and as a way to resolve any disputes before they even start - she gave every indication that she was in agreement with this, and then her actions have been the opposite. I can't decide what the reason for it is, but it's consistent

She wanted to use my drying rack and didn't want to buy her own. Clothes take about two days to dry. I don't think it's controlling since we agreed on these things before she moved in - I didn't just tell her she had to follow my rules. I explained to her that we would draw up a cleaning roster including laundry days in order to avoid any disagreements, and she agreed to that multiple times. If she didn't like it, she shouldn't have moved in?

 

Also I've asked her multiple times whether she thinks the cleaning roster is unfair and she said no, it's completely fair

Have you seen the Big Bang Theory? There's a roommate agreement with clauses and stuff.

Just because it's a contract doesn't make it reasonable.

I just think you're not built for a roommate. Roommates are about compromise. I like doing my own thing, so I don't have roommates.

Have you seen the Big Bang Theory? There's a roommate agreement with clauses and stuff.

 

Just because it's a contract doesn't make it reasonable.

 

I just think you're not built for a roommate. Roommates are about compromise. I like doing my own thing, so I don't have roommates.

Maybe. I was living alone before getting her in. The thing is, I don't understand why she would agree to things and then let the responsibility fall on me? It's not an issue of the individual problems being huge, it's the consistent lack of respect which is bothering me

How would you go about compromising with someone when you try and communicate with them, they either ignore/talk over you, or they agree and then do the opposite? I'd be open to compromise if she was

Maybe. I was living alone before getting her in. The thing is, I don't understand why she would agree to things and then let the responsibility fall on me? It's not an issue of the individual problems being huge, it's the consistent lack of respect which is bothering me

 

How would you go about compromising with someone when you try and communicate with them, they either ignore/talk over you, or they agree and then do the opposite? I'd be open to compromise if she was

You're not getting the point ... the fact you asked for it is ridiculous to me.

I don't think you're good as roommates, I'm just chiming in a side opinion.

You're not getting the point ... the fact you asked for it is ridiculous to me.

 

I don't think you're good as roommates, I'm just chiming in a side opinion.

I don't understand what is ridiculous about it. It's in place for mutual comfort. If I were living alone, I'd feel free to do my laundry whenever/wherever I please, do my dishes whenever I please, make as much noise as I please whenever I please. I wouldn't care if housework didn't get done for a few days or if I left my laundry in a pile in the hallway. But because I have a housemate, I do my best to make the place liveable and comfortable for her, and I expect the same. I also have a cat and I make sure his areas are constantly clean/litter tray scooped immediately, primarily for her comfort. She knows this.

Maybe you're right though. Maybe I should just stop caring and let the place get messy... It was all newly furnished for her comfort, but who cares right? I don't know anymore.

I must say that you seem (based on your posts) to be an extremely difficult, controlling, and condescending person to live with. I would not like to have you as my housemate at all.

Based upon what you wrote about your housemate, she seems annoying, but not as difficult to live with. Why don't you just keep your drying rack in your room, so that she has to buy her own? Or, tell her that you are getting rid of the laundry schedule, provided she buys her own rack.

All in all, I do not like having housemates. That is why I lived alone until I got married. It was very nice having my own place. I did things when and how I wanted.

You might need to get a smaller place. But, I'll bet you'll be happier in the long run.

I also agree that you just shouldn't have a roommate. Is this like an AirBnB type thing, where she's only staying short term?? If that were the case, and she's basically a temp visitor in YOUR home, then yes, she'd need to abide by your rules. If this is intended to last 6+ months, then I think you're being way too controlling.

I'm a grown woman and I would do my laundry when my job and other responsibilities leave me time for it, not when you tell me I can. And if you brought up a laundry schedule to me and wanted me to agree to it prior to moving in, I would think you were nuts.

Maybe she agreed because she's nonconfrontational and needs a place to stay. Regardless, if I had a roommate who constantly tried to "have conversations" with me about what I did or didn't do, that would just make me angry and less likely to care about that person's point of view. You're not her mother, or any type of authority figure. But maybe this is why I've never lived with a roommate...

I don't understand what is ridiculous about it. It's in place for mutual comfort. If I were living alone, I'd feel free to do my laundry whenever/wherever I please, do my dishes whenever I please, make as much noise as I please whenever I please. I wouldn't care if housework didn't get done for a few days or if I left my laundry in a pile in the hallway. But because I have a housemate, I do my best to make the place liveable and comfortable for her, and I expect the same. I also have a cat and I make sure his areas are constantly clean/litter tray scooped immediately, primarily for her comfort. She knows this.

 

Maybe you're right though. Maybe I should just stop caring and let the place get messy... It was all newly furnished for her comfort, but who cares right? I don't know anymore.

I can see why she has to talk over you. You take one point and hyperexaggerate it to try and prove it's absurd.

No. I never said let the place get messy. But relax your rules. Laundry schedule? What? And a purchasing schedule?

Do laundry when it's convenient. If you both end up trying to do laundry at the same time often, then resolve the problem. Buy things as you need them.

I agree roommates shouldn't need to be told to take the trash out. But these points stood out to me.

So you do this for comfort. Sheldon on Big Bang has a bathroom schedule. So everyone can do their business at mutually agreed upon times so there are no bathroom conflicts.

Does that sound crazy?

Laundry happens literally like 1/7 as often.

I must say that you seem (based on your posts) to be an extremely difficult, controlling, and condescending person to live with. I would not like to have you as my housemate at all.

 

Based upon what you wrote about your housemate, she seems annoying, but not as difficult to live with. Why don't you just keep your drying rack in your room, so that she has to buy her own? Or, tell her that you are getting rid of the laundry schedule, provided she buys her own rack.

 

All in all, I do not like having housemates. That is why I lived alone until I got married. It was very nice having my own place. I did things when and how I wanted.

 

You might need to get a smaller place. But, I'll bet you'll be happier in the long run.

I think what you're reading is the result of months of frustration where we will discuss and agree on one thing, and then she goes and does something completely different. I didn't enforce the laundry schedule, and I wouldn't simply remove the drying rack because that seems manipulative. I simply tried to talk to her about when it's most convenient for her to do laundry so that I can work around it. I've dropped it since, but it's an example of a consistent attitude

The only time I had a successful roommate situation was when my roomie was such a considerate person she put my comfort over her own.

We had what some might call silly rules. She took the top two shelves in the fridge and one drawer and I took the two bottom shelves and one drawer. We both took out the trash; whoever noticed it was full took it out. She was quiet. No friends over, no boyfriend over. I did the same. She was a treasure.

I ended up moving away and she had to find somewhere new to live. She was shocked that her new roommates had no set up for food storage. They just put everything wherever. They had random people over all the time. They seldom locked the front door and people were always coming in at odd times. She said she missed me and the way I had things set up!

So I'd say you and your roommate are incompatible. Maybe you need to find someone OCD like me lol.

I also agree that you just shouldn't have a roommate. Is this like an AirBnB type thing, where she's only staying short term?? If that were the case, and she's basically a temp visitor in YOUR home, then yes, she'd need to abide by your rules. If this is intended to last 6+ months, then I think you're being way too controlling.

 

I'm a grown woman and I would do my laundry when my job and other responsibilities leave me time for it, not when you tell me I can. And if you brought up a laundry schedule to me and wanted me to agree to it prior to moving in, I would think you were nuts.

 

Maybe she agreed because she's nonconfrontational and needs a place to stay. Regardless, if I had a roommate who constantly tried to "have conversations" with me about what I did or didn't do, that would just make me angry and less likely to care about that person's point of view. You're not her mother, or any type of authority figure. But maybe this is why I've never lived with a roommate...

As I've already stated, these aren't my "rules", they were a mutual agreement we came to based on what is most comfortable. The laundry schedule, which we talked about early on, was for her benefit, because she works full time and I'm a student. What I said to her was, "I recognise that you're pressed for time, so I'll make sure the laundry is clear when you need to use it - when do you think that's most likely to be?" She had me abide by this by agreeing to it multiple times, but she herself did the opposite. Thus I could go up to a week without being able to do my laundry because she asked me to leave certain days for her, she didn't use them and ended up using mine instead. This had absolutely nothing to do with me dictating her schedule - basically the opposite. After broaching the topic to work around her, it became clear she was just choosing to do things as she pleased but asking/allowing me to go out of my way to accommodate her regardless

I agree I'm not her mother - so why am I the one who's replacing all the shared household items and reminding her to take out the trash? Or worse, having to take out the trash for her because she's just decided not to ...

I can see why she has to talk over you. You take one point and hyperexaggerate it to try and prove it's absurd.

 

No. I never said let the place get messy. But relax your rules. Laundry schedule? What? And a purchasing schedule?

 

Do laundry when it's convenient. If you both end up trying to do laundry at the same time often, then resolve the problem. Buy things as you need them.

 

I agree roommates shouldn't need to be told to take the trash out. But these points stood out to me.

 

So you do this for comfort. Sheldon on Big Bang has a bathroom schedule. So everyone can do their business at mutually agreed upon times so there are no bathroom conflicts.

 

Does that sound crazy?

 

Laundry happens literally like 1/7 as often.

She talks over me because she likes the sound of her own voice lol. It's taken me four months to address most of the issues in my OP because I spaced out the conversations by several weeks and included plenty of positive/friendly interactions in between. Please don't assume you know how I am as a person, just because you think that me trying to work out an agreement with my housemate isn't something you'd be comfortable with... Doesn't make a lot of sense for you to generalise like that

As per above post, the laundry schedule was purely for her benefit and she was aware of this as I broached it as "I know you're pressed for time with work, so when should I leave the laundry free for you?". There have been many times where she's asked me to take my laundry down prematurely so she can do hers - and I usually oblige because I'm a pushover. Unfortunately, I've had to completely redo my laundry on a few occasions as a result.

The purchasing schedule? She asked me to buy and replace shared items so that she doesn't have to, and then work out the cost and she'll pay half. I don't actually like this arrangement but I do it anyway.

I can see how you might interpret my behaviour as controlling, but as far as I can tell it's simply conscientiousness

The only time I had a successful roommate situation was when my roomie was such a considerate person she put my comfort over her own.

 

We had what some might call silly rules. She took the top two shelves in the fridge and one drawer and I took the two bottom shelves and one drawer. We both took out the trash; whoever noticed it was full took it out. She was quiet. No friends over, no boyfriend over. I did the same. She was a treasure.

 

I ended up moving away and she had to find somewhere new to live. She was shocked that her new roommates had no set up for food storage. They just put everything wherever. They had random people over all the time. They seldom locked the front door and people were always coming in at odd times. She said she missed me and the way I had things set up!

 

So I'd say you and your roommate are incompatible. Maybe you need to find someone OCD like me lol.

Yeah, I think that's basically the only way that housemate situations can be successful in the long term - when both people agree to accommodate each other to the best of their abilities. You need to be matched for "living style" - if you have one person who accommodates and another who puts their own needs first, it's going to be really problematic. I've also found that when you have two people who put their own needs first, this is what leads to the most arguments and resentment because things don't get done and nobody's sure who's turn it is to clean etc.

Thanks for your post - it really helps put things in perspective

Your personalities are definitely incompatible for the level of intimacy living together entails.

Even though it's only two of you sharing what sounds like a nice and spacious place, it sounds so uncomfortable for both of you and just hell.

I can see both sides, having lived in a variety of situations when I was younger. It's good to have agreements and communication. At the same time, it's home and it really is hard feeling regimented. I once lived for a while in a big old house with three other separate renters ( each with their own lives, friends, families and dates) and we didn't even have a laundry schedule! Or someone in charge of all food and supplies, or who could come over when. And it worked out fine - probably because it was just a really good match in personalities and lifestyles .

So it's up to you, but room mates can actually be a fun experience. It doesn't have to be like this. I enjoyed it, and then I really loved living alone. So if you aren't enjoying it, maybe it's worth sucking up the extra expenses to either be alone or look for a better match.

I still talk with one of those old roommates now and then. He taught me to make risotto before everyone thought it was cool lol.

I think you sound like a lot to handle as a roommate. If you are all about controlling details on the house, it leaves the impression that you don't have enough to handle outside of the house OR you are distracting yourself from issues by controlling the house. What you will have to realize, is that even though you are the primary on the lease, if she is paying her way, she has a lot of legal protections and should have equal say on how things are run. Not when, but how. Maybe she doesn't want every detail micromanaged?

I would somewhat echo other people's sentiment that you may not be built for roommates or you should try to find somebody with a very similar disposition--but then you may find they are unsatisfied with what you do. I have had a lot of roommates and I am the type of person who doesn't have many issues with it. You generally have to be pretty live and let live or in your case maybe choosy about who you room with.

If you are dependent on her financial input for the payments, you should probably pick which things are truly priorities and then change what you can where you can. Yes, move your laundry rack into your room. If something is genuinely unsanitary it is an issue. You should probably keep more space from her for awhile and see if that alleviates the stress.

How many clothes do you two have where it's life or death if someone deviates from the "laundry schedule?"

And why does she have to pay rent weeks in advance rather than when it's actually due? You're essentially expecting her to give you a regular free loan.

Not saying she sounds like a gem. And, ultimately, if you're the actual leasing party, by all means do what you gotta for your own happiness. It's just hard to really sympathize with anyone here.

All I've ever asked from a roommate is they pay their share and not bring in cockroaches. No real sense in expecting more.

Your personalities are definitely incompatible for the level of intimacy living together entails.

Even though it's only two of you sharing what sounds like a nice and spacious place, it sounds so uncomfortable for both of you and just hell.

I can see both sides, having lived in a variety of situations when I was younger. It's good to have agreements and communication. At the same time, it's home and it really is hard feeling regimented. I once lived for a while in a big old house with three other separate renters ( each with their own lives, friends, families and dates) and we didn't even have a laundry schedule! Or someone in charge of all food and supplies, or who could come over when. And it worked out fine - probably because it was just a really good match in personalities and lifestyles .

 

So it's up to you, but room mates can actually be a fun experience. It doesn't have to be like this. I enjoyed it, and then I really loved living alone. So if you aren't enjoying it, maybe it's worth sucking up the extra expenses to either be alone or look for a better match.

 

I still talk with one of those old roommates now and then. He taught me to make risotto before everyone thought it was cool lol.

I do absolutely agree. I've tried really hard not to regiment things, and to give her plenty of space/freedom. She's commented before on how she's glad I make sure she has the bathroom to herself in the mornings to get ready for work, and kitchen to herself in the evenings because she likes to cook often. I work around her as much as possible. Just feels like a one way street a lot of the time, and I feel disrespected for her lack of reciprocity on the few small things I've asked which are for mutual benefit - cleaning schedule and making sure she gives me a heads up when she's bringing a guy home for the weekend (I have a stomach bug this weekend so it's really uncomfortable). Plus the issues with the bond/rent/talking over me - just seems like, why do I do all of this for someone who is happy to take but not give?

How many clothes do you two have where it's life or death if someone deviates from the "laundry schedule?"

 

And why does she have to pay rent weeks in advance rather than when it's actually due? You're essentially expecting her to give you a regular free loan.

 

Not saying she sounds like a gem. And, ultimately, if you're the actual leasing party, by all means do what you gotta for your own happiness. It's just hard to really sympathize with anyone here.

 

All I've ever asked from a roommate is they pay their share and not bring in cockroaches. No real sense in expecting more.

There's laundry being done pretty much every day at our house because it takes a while to dry, which is why I suggested that we work out something where I'm not interfering with her limited time. It's not life or death, it's the fact that she kept having me accommodate her but then chose to do things differently. It's just one of many issues that indicate disrespect

Rent is always in advance, usually 2 weeks. That was also in the contract we signed (which is required by law here). But due to her nonpayment on one occasion I suggested she pay weekly - basically if she's late with rent, rather than having an extra week's buffer as she was originally meant to have, her nonpayment could result in a late payment by me to the landlord (except it doesn't because I'm responsible and plan for that just incase). Just not what we agreed to basically. But no, it doesn't add up over time like continual loans

 

I agree I'm not her mother - so why am I the one who's replacing all the shared household items and reminding her to take out the trash? Or worse, having to take out the trash for her because she's just decided not to ...

Exactly! WHY are you doing these things? You need to ask yourself this question.

It seems a bit passive-aggressive to me. You say you are doing all of these things for her comfort, but there are strings attached.

If she doesn't do her laundry on one of her nights, go ahead and do yours. I can't imagine that she would be bothered.

If you want her to take turns doing inventory and ordering items, let her know. Personally, in my home, I have that role. It is so much easier for one person to be in charge of the inventory. It can get confusing if too many cooks stir that broth. I just had the supplies delivered today. My husband helped pay for them, of course. You said that she does pay for her share. So, what's the problem? I would only be aggravated if my housemate didn't pay for her share of the supplies. You say you have a more open schedule than she, so it makes sense for you to do this and simply bill her.

Regarding the garbage/recycling, do NOT remind her. That is incredibly condescending. Can't you make a laminated dry erase trash schedule and hang it up in your kitchen? You can both initial off on the days you take the trash out. Also, the list will clearly show the days of the week that the trash goes out. This way, she can see the pickup times without being reminded like a child.

The few times I did have roommates (in college) we always used dry erase checklists to keep everyone on top of the chores. It worked really well.