Press to find out about past cheating if things are on the upswing?

Okay so many of you know my story. To recap: About 2 years ago I was being an ass and my wife checked out and had an emotional affair. Details of the affair have "leaked" over time.

 

Things are on the upswing right now I believe. However, I can't shake this feeling like I don't know everything. My gut says it went physical, possibly a one-off occurrence, and that she learned better from her experience (we were both virgins prior to marriage and I could tell as she was approaching middle age the fact that she had never been with anyone else was bothering her). I have NO proof of this and she has denied ever having met up with him privately. I suppose if I scoured her phone reading everything she ever wrote to any of her friends I might be able to find out, but that's about it.

 

The things contributing to my gut is that she felt you couldn't know that you couldn't get any better if you never were with anyone else (she could be talking about the emotional affair, who knows). Then suddenly, after, being quite non-committal about the marriage, it changed to a more "I'll be with you, as long as you'll have me" attitude (which she kind of holds to this day). Kind of passive, non-championing attitude which kind of indicates I have good reason not to have her. I knew she had taken nude photos of herself and upon reassuring her that I was prepared to forgive her (which I have), I was able to get her to admit that she sent them to this guy. Also, we recently planned a trip in August, and she said something to effect that we had to go on this trip together even if we got a divorce. That took me aback, and when I asked her about it, she said it was a bad example and don't worry about it (I later discovered that she was sneaking smokes which I am highly opposed to - maybe that was it, but I was pretty nice about it I think and helped her quit). Also, one of her friends gets an awkward look on her face whenever she sees me, which could be because she knows a secret?

 

I feel like the only way I get her to admit it is if I prefaced that I needed to know for my own peace of mind but wanted to forgive her, just a ton of sweet reassurances. She'd be too scared I'd divorce her to tell the truth any other way. And she might lie to me no matter how I frame it, and I still wouldn't know for sure. I can't really do that genuinely though, because honestly I don't know how I'd react. I dont' even know if I want to know. Maybe I'd forgive her, maybe I'd get paranoid and never trust her again. I just don't know. If it was indeed a one-off and she learned her lesson I think I might be able to forgive that. Since things seem to be getting better, should I let it go? If you're not positive you'd get a divorce even if you did know, is ignorance bliss?

I think in your case you might as well just accept and start to learn how to trust her. You're not going to leave her no matter what the truth is so what is your obsession with this? Either you accept what she's telling you and you go forth without this fear or you don't accept and you go forth living in this fear you have jailed yourself in. Is the "fear" a fear of looking like a fool or is the "fear" a fear of having actually been betrayed and that goes against your romantic boundaries as a deal breaker?

Is the "fear" a fear of looking like a fool or is the "fear" a fear of having actually been betrayed and that goes against your romantic boundaries as a deal breaker?

Both, I think. I don't want to be played the fool, and I don't want her thinking she got away with it. While it may not end in divorce, I think if I found out it could kill our intimacy as I don't think I could look at her the same way. Anyway, thanks. My gut is also saying don't press it, that nothing good will come out of it. She could legitimately tell the truth that it didn't happen and I'd still doubt it, she could lie that it didn't happen when it did and I'd still doubt it, or she could confess and could be a growing experience or a total sh_tstorm.

Both, I think. I don't want to be played the fool, and I don't want her thinking she got away with it. While it may not end in divorce, I think if I found out it could kill our intimacy as I don't think I could look at her the same way.

 

You don't look at her the same way as it is. You don't respect her, you don't trust her either. She's your drug of choice and she's convenient for the time being... that's why you're still with her and.... She did get away with it. You'd be gone if she didn't. At the very least you would insist on marital counseling and her getting her own private therapy to figure out why she needs the attention of this man that she NEEEEEEDS.

The reason I don't trust her is she's never sponaneously come out and said she's done something that could considered a dealbreaker without prompting. I always have to confront her. Example, I spent a month saying "Why do I smell smoke?" Nothing, totally gaslighting me. Then one day she comes in the room, goes into the bathroom, runs the sink as quietly as she could, then comes to bed. I get up, go to the bathroom and smell her toothbrush. Undeniable.

 

So I go back to bed and say, "I don't wanna be judgy and all, but what's up with the smoking?" She then told me she was smoking, and that she "planned on telling me", which means jack all to me after the fact. She also asked me how I knew, and I said "I didn't, but thanks for confirming it." (I wasn't about to give up my toothbrush trick)

 

She just doesn't have a strong enough guilt mechanism to come out and say when she's done something that would upset me without prompting. I would just like her to do that. Just once. I do realize that's kind of human nature, but I'd like to see her take the high road.

The reason I don't trust her is she's never sponaneously come out and said she's done something that could considered a dealbreaker without prompting. Example, I spent a month saying "Why do I smell smoke?" Nothing, totally gaslighting me. Then one day she comes in the room, goes into the bathroom, runs the sink as quietly as she could, then comes to bed. I get up, go to the bathroom and smell her toothbrush. Undeniable.

 

So I go back to bed and say, "I don't wanna be judgy and all, but what's up with the smoking?" She then told me she was smoking, and that she "planned on telling me", which means jack squat after the fact. She also asked me how I knew, and I said "I didn't, but thanks for confirming it." (I wasn't about to give up my toothbrush trick)

 

She just doesn't have a strong enough guilt mechanism to come out and say when she's done something that would upset me without prompting. I would just like her to do that. Just once. I do realize that's kind of human nature, but I'd like to see her take the high road.

When you are addicted to something like cigarettes and you know your partner is going to try and be controlling about you quitting then any addict will try to hide what they are doing In order to continue their drug of choice. You are comparing apples (addiction to cigarettes) to oranges (betrayal of your marriage vows).

 

Compare apples to apples and how does she fair?

Your obsession and paranoia are going to be your downfall at some point. You dont trust her, you dont believe anything she says, you waste a lot of precious time you cant get back trying to get her to confess when there may be nothing to confess to! How long do you plan to act like this?

I don't consider them apples and oranges. They are both things she knew were dealbreakers before we got married. I would absolutely consider it at least a metaphorical breaking of our vows. You could as easily say the rationale behind not telling your partner about cheating is so they don't get all "controlling" and expect you not to see the person anymore. I've heard that many times on this forum, someone gets caught cheating, usually gets pissed at how the got the information (e.g. snooping), and then gets offended they want them to cut off all contact and that they can't be "just friends."

 

But that's neither here nor there. The fact of the matter is, she has never admitted to marital impropiety without prompting. Early in our marriage, when we were both young and immature (we got married young), she sexted and when I found out about it, bald faced lied about even when I had proof. Now at least she'll at least answer truthfully, most of the time, if I frame it in a kindly way that implies I will forgive her, but that's it.

Your obsession and paranoia are going to be your downfall at some point. You dont trust her, you dont believe anything she says, you waste a lot of precious time you cant get back trying to get her to confess when there may be nothing to confess to! How long do you plan to act like this?

At this point, I don't consider it straight up paranoia. I have good reason to not trust her. As far as how long? I don't know, probably until she stops screwing around and having emotional affairs for good. Which may be never. I have totally forgiven her before, but I think the reason I'm having a harder time this time is because I don't actually believe it won't happen again this time. Before I could lull myself into believing it. See:

 

 

What stops you from ending the marriage? It seems silly to stay with somebody who you cannot trust.

I don't consider them apples and oranges. They are both things she knew were dealbreakers before we got married. I would absolutely consider it at least a metaphorical breaking of our vows. You could as easily say the rationale behind not telling your partner about cheating is so they don't get all "controlling" and expect you not to see the person anymore. I've heard that many times on this forum, someone gets caught cheating, usually gets pissed at how the got the information (e.g. snooping), and then gets offended they want them to cut off all contact and that they can't be "just friends."

 

But that's neither here nor there. The fact of the matter is, she has never admitted to marital impropiety without prompting. Early in our marriage, when we were both young and immature (we got married young), she sexted and when I found out about it, bald faced lied about even when I had proof. Now at least she'll at least answer truthfully, most of the time, if I frame it in a kindly way that implies I will forgive her, but that's it.

She tells you the truth when you ask because she knows you're not going to leave her. She's betrayed your trust more then once and you're still together. Why would she volunteer bad behaviour when it's easier for her to just keep it on the down low and avoid your "speech" and your disapproval?

 

If you "frame" your enquiry in a "kindly way" she'll answer truthfully? Man you are P-whipped. Sorry for being blunt but its the truth. You are an enabler and you enable her to be the untrustworthy partner that she is. She never has to sit at the banquet of the consequences of her actions with you... that's an enabler.

It's normal to want to know every possible detail but trust me you really don't want to know. If this relationship is going to last you have to both move on from it. You have to start trying to trust her again. I hope it works out I have been there and it didn't work out for us

If you "frame" your enquiry in a "kindly way" she'll answer truthfully? Man you are P-whipped. Sorry for being blunt but its the truth. You are an enabler and you enable her to be the untrustworthy partner that she is.

I can see how it would appear that way. What I am is a guy that has been married 23 years, loves my wife in spite of her imperfections, and is looking to trust again. That, and the fact that I don't really care to get screwed in a divorce, which, in my state, I surely will be. I'm also far from perfect myself, (I have been a TOTAL d__k and inattentive in the past, one that few would likely stick with, but have worked hard to change, and believe she is capable of change too and deserves a chance) and while I don't approve of the things that she's done, I can see why she did it. So, I view myself as "practical whipped," vs p___y whipped. Anyway, I had a talk with my wife this weekend, on our anniversary, which went quite well. She has assured me I have nothing to worry about, and it has, for now, helped me to feel better. My main issue now, is trying to get her to transition from a passive "I'll be with you as long as you'll have me" mode, to a champion of our marriage. She says that is very difficult, as she spent years in that role to little effect on my part, but she would work on it. She doesn't know how to do it without appearing controlling, so I am going to see if I can find some resources for that.

I'm much in the same situation. Perhaps it would give you perspective to read the threads I've started, all about my wife's emotional affair.

 

From what I see, she has betrayed your trust, completely, regardless of how physical the relationship became. Unless she has come out to you, stated plainly that her betrayal was every bit as bad as if she had actually slept with the guy, then it would be foolish to "trust" her. Unless you mean you can find a sort of trust where you trust her to treat you this way again, and cheat on you, and you can accept being treated that way.

 

She lies to you, hides things from you, and you say her guilt mechanism isn't strong enough to even feel bad about it. You should NOT by trying to "trust" that your wife will act according to your behavior expectations, since she has communicated to you quite clearly that she does not share them. It's literally asking her to violate your trust again.

Okay so many of you know my story. To recap: About 2 years ago I was being an ass and my wife checked out and had an emotional affair. Details of the affair have "leaked" over time.

 

Things are on the upswing right now I believe.

 

She stayed with you even though you were an ass and you decided to take her back/continue being married her despite there having been an affair. Once you make that decision and accept that although she had an affair you want to stay with her, you should not ask for those details. Either you accept her as your wife and you put both in the past -your assery and her affair - or you divorce. But you can't have it both ways where you decide to stay with her and recommit to the marriage *and* rake her across the coals /need to know every detail.

 

So make a decision. go to marriage counseling if you feel that will help - but what will it be - you both move forward, forgive eachother for each of your wrongdoings and move forward with the marriage or divorce.

 

So make a decision. go to marriage counseling if you feel that will help - but what will it be - you both move forward, forgive eachother for each of your wrongdoings and move forward with the marriage or divorce.

Sounds sensible. Thanks.

Neither of you comes out of this scenario terribly well, yet after 23 years you're still together and I can totally understand why you want to make the most of the situation. Assuming that's the way it's going to stay, you need to let her past drop or it'll drive you nuts. Sure, she cheated on you in the sense of having an emotional affair, but this one of her friends gets an awkward look on her face whenever she sees me, which could be because she knows a secret?

 

Don't you think it's more likely that she's feeling awkward having to interact with someone who has been a right d**khead and an ass, for her friend's sake?

 

Problem is, once you have this mindset even completely irrelevant things will feed into it! You have no way of knowing what her friend's thinking, yet you look at this as some kind of indication there's something shady going on.

 

All you can do is start from here. You are not the same person who behaved like an ass, and hopefully she isn't the same person who had an emotional affair. You've both learned through your experiences and grown. I'm guessing she doesn't berate you for things you did in the past, and can do nothing to change - so it would be good if you could do likewise.

 

If you're really convinced it's going to happen again, though, then end the marriage. If not, then react if something does go wrong, but don't create unhappy scenarios which don't exist in reality.

Thanks nutbrownhare. I'm going to let this go (frankly I was having a bad day when I wrote the OP). I am on the way to trusting, but it's not just not as easy to get there anymore. She understands this was her last strike. If it happens again, so be it and that's out of my control, but hopefully it doesn't come to that.

 

I also may stay off these forums for a while. I think when you read depressing stories of people cheating every day, it can give you a rather pessimistic outlook on humanity in general.

I also may stay off these forums for a while. I think when you read depressing stories of people cheating every day, it can give you a rather pessimistic outlook on humanity in general.

 

Good luck with all this; the depressing stories CAN get a bit like reading all about surgical blunders when you're about to go in for a minor op!

OP: I haven't read the whole story here but have you attempted professional couples counseling?

OP: I haven't read the whole story here but have you attempted professional couples counseling?

Yes, we went for some sessions and at some point it seemed like it was getting to the point of diminishing returns and we stopped going after I lost my job for a short period of time. The first few got to the root of the problem though, I don't want to say it was THE cause, but things have improved since then.