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Dating Out of Your League?


Goodfellas

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Hello eNA,

 

I've been away for quite some time but I'm back with a 'problem' I never thought I'd post about.

 

I feel as though my girlfriend is out of my league.

 

It's been six weeks and we're so into each other, but I can't help but think the newness shine will wear off and she'll come to her senses. I'm trying to take a positive approach and tell myself she sees this, that and the other in me but a coworker set me off today. He was going on about her physique and how she's too hot for me and it's been eating at me ever since. A couple other people have made similar, but less scathing, comments too.

 

What I'm seeking is advice or success stories from guys who've "dated up" and how to cope with the comments like above or the negative self talk that may seep in. Or even from women who've been told "they can do better" but stayed with their partner despite the nay-sayers.

 

Thanking you in advance...

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It may be beneficial to think of various possible explanations or reasonings. You may have characteristics that are attractive. Are you a great listener? Do you laugh and make time so as to make her feel special? Beauty isn't everything and often its in the eye of the beholder. Also, is it quite possible that jealousy from the guys may contribute? It seems like it's only guys you've asked, how about some ladies? Ladies may think you are gorgeous but your guy buddies wouldn't. Would help if you got the whole scoop of the situation.

 

There may be assumptions and also having internalized what others have said may be a hint into possible future mishap (insecurity). Don't let it get to you. The fact is she is into you. Find what makes you attractive in her eyes. I'd probably approach it from this way instead of the fear.

 

Confidence is contagious and women can see it from afar. Maintain cool and cherish your lady. Good luck!

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Your coworker is a jerk!! Be confident in yourself. Obviously, your gf sees something in you and looks aren't everything, not by a long shot. Everyone ages and gets wrinkly over time so looks really shouldn't be the top thing. Particularly if she's dated hot guys before who were mean to her or cheated on her, she might be more interested in dating a guy who treats her decently and is faithful, even if he's not a 10. I obviously don't know what you look like, but really, be confident in yourself and that you have a good thing to offer her. If anything, I've heard a lot of women say that they want to be the "good looking one" in the relationship.

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So, my last partner was quite a bit less attractive than me by other people's standards. I've always had a bit of an odd view of attraction though, and I don't find typically 'hot' guys to be particularly attractive. If they are attention-seeking I will look, (e.g.) your typical male fitness model, but I wouldn't think to myself "oh wow, I wish I could sleep with/date a guy like that" more like, "oh there's a guy who knows he's attractive by normative standards and likes to flaunt it, good for him". If the guy I happen to fall for is very attractive (my current boyfriend) then that is just a bonus, but definitely not what I go for. In fact, I wouldn't even have considered my bf (and for a long time didn't consider him) worth dating until he showed me that he was kind, intelligent, compassionate and patient. Those are the types of traits that make you fall for someone.

 

It makes me kind of angry sometimes how people place normal individuals into categories like "5/6/7/8/9" because I honestly see very little difference in those categories. What is this person like to be around? Do they make me smile, laugh, think? Do they have depth and substance?

 

The only thing I can really say is that you have to trust the connection you have with her. Once someone falls in love and has known you for a while, all that other stuff melts away - well, so long as you keep in good health and hygiene. And are emotionally attractive and treat her with love and respect.

 

One of my favourite philosophers, Slavoj Zizek, makes some really poignant comments on this topic. He says, we don't fall in love with perfect people. We fall in love with imperfect people who are perfect for us. If she does change her mind, it won't be because of how you look.

 

Also - different people find different features more or less attractive. Maybe you have certain things about you that remind her of things she finds beautiful, where other people would normally think those traits are average. That is often how I saw my former partner: others saw a balding guy with completely asymmetrical features. I saw deep brown eyes and perfect teeth. That's how love works

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It sounds like your coworker is jealous of you. The fact is that your girlfriend wouldn't be with you if she didn't see something she likes. The absolute worst thing you can do at this point is to start questioning things, because that will begin to negatively impact your relationship. Self-fulfilling prophecy, etc. etc.

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Your co worker is jealous and a jerk.

I don't believe in "dating up" it's a bunch of nonsense. Human beings are human beings. And to place such importance on the outside, is incredibly superficial. Everyone is going to get old and looks do not last.

What matters is if they are a good person, with good morals and intelligence and so on. I have met so many "good looking people' with the ugliest hearts and were not worth knowing.

Why concentrate on that? Just be good to each other, that's all you need to focus on.

 

As for what other people think or say...they can shove it. People are always going to gossip and have something to say about someone, ignore it. It's useless and doesn't mean anything.

What should mean something is if you think you're a good guy and you two are getting all well, that's all that matters.

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Agreed your co-worker is a jerk and possibly jealous. I am a woman and never felt worthy of any guy liking me, or pretty much anyone liking me, it stemmed from a massive inferiority complex I had when younger. I could never figure out why my husband was interested in me; how could anyone want to date me never mind marry me? But I got over that as I grew up and matured. I learned to value myself and realize I'm just as good as the next person. I evolved into a self confident woman and you need to learn to believe in yourself just like I needed to believe in myself.

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Well she's not out of your league, so get over it and tell your co-worker and any other guy who makes comments to eat their hearts out.

 

Your co-worker was being an ass but sometimes guys just like to give each other a hard time that way.

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Hello eNA,

What I'm seeking is advice or success stories from guys who've "dated up" and how to cope with the comments like above or the negative self talk that may seep in. Or even from women who've been told "they can do better" but stayed with their partner despite the nay-sayers.

 

Thanking you in advance...

 

When I was young, I'd frequently be told I was beautiful by total strangers, there was a bunch of guys at university who used to refer to me as 'Lady Fantasy' (I found out later!)... all that.

 

Strangely, I was an entire human being with thoughts and feelings, and not just a collection of physical features which earned points on an imaginary scale. You know what? I bet your girlfriend is, too!

 

I think you and your friends have a lot of growing-up to do. The whole notion of 'staying with a partner despite the nay-sayers' My ****!!! As if anyone with a vestige of a personality would care what other people thought of the one they love!

 

I did have problems with guys who were looking for arm candy - but they were easily dealt with. Greater problems, though, were caused in relationships with guys who considered themselves not attractive enough and would bring their insecurity into it all. Just think about it. You have a relationship with someone who's really into you. Why are you insulting her by assuming she's too stupid and superficial to see you as a person? Or that she's so vain and narcissistic that she'll look in the mirror, give herself points out of ten (on someone else's scale of attraction), look at you and mark you down?

 

If some crass, silly little boy of whatever age tells you that she's too hot for you... look at them, raise one eyebow or wink and say: "There's a lot you don't know about me, isn't there?"

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i have been given "what are you doing with him" line in the past, usually by either a. males who had asked me out on dates and got turned down and more commonly b. women. it usually referred to their age (too old for me), career (not impressive enough), and sometimes looks. sometimes i was rude and told them what i was doing with them (insert made up kinky stuff here) and they'd go "oooooooh, i see, wink wink".

 

not everyone reacted that way though. one of my exs got a bunch of "you go, dawg!" and pats on the back at a highschool reunion, from males and females alike. and some people were just normal and treated us like a normal couple that we were.

 

i liked the men i picked. of course i did. that's why i effing picked them. i didn't think doing hard manual work in agriculture made anyone a loser. i saw incredible resilience, work ethics, diligence and astoundingly, the guy never once complained, and he genuinely loved his work and cared for the environment which he tended to.

 

i liked them because i think "dad bods" are infinitely hotter than gym bods. because i'd take a normal face over a chiseled son of Mount Rushmore looking face with veneers that could damage one's eyesight any day.

 

i liked them for them for their voice, their hands, their morals, their beliefs, their curiosity, their benevolence, their jokes, their outlook of life, their endurance in hard times, and the flexibility with which they learned from others and from life itself, and i could go on for long enough to start missing my exs but we don't want that right lol.

 

one of them internalized the same kind of comments which he received about not deserving me, and it was difficult to deal with that insecurity (and eventually became impossible) as some posters have warned you. to me, it was infuriating and sad that a guy who was all that refused to believe i liked him, and that he was enough.

 

i also backed away from two guys i really really liked, and who really liked me as well -because i was convinced i was out of their league, that they would eventually realize that and would be disappointed in me, and i, in turn would feel shame and worthlessness that i couldn't "upgrade myself". i wish i hadn't been so insecure.

 

just, don't. don't spend another minute on this nonsense. if she likes you, and you guys are happy, trust me, she thinks you're the bees knees.

 

next time a guy gets snarky tell him "i take it that means you only date prostitutes on heroin yourself, so here, have a rubber, buddy".

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She is going to to leave you if continue to think this way. I know it's hard, but stop rejecting yourself. Women have finely tuned antenna when it comes to confidence. When she senses you think she's out of your league, she will agree with you. If she senses you're a man and a good match, that's what she'll believe, and you won't be able to get rid of her, even if you wanted to.

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Strangely, I was an entire human being with thoughts and feelings, and not just a collection of physical features which earned points on an imaginary scale. You know what? I bet your girlfriend is, too!

 

 

Brilliant perspective and insecurity check.

 

I agree with the others, OP, particularly with Sportster's caution. Don't let anyone steal your pleasure in this new relationship, especially, accidentally, yourself. Good luck.

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I agree with Ms. Darcy - and nutbrownhare too. I was involved with a man for 7 years on and off who was certainly not conventionally good looking and he was short as well (which is thought of as a negative, but not to me) but to me, he sparkled and was cute (and he had great dimples too). I will never forget going to a holiday party at my office with him as my date. One of my colleagues who was very pretty and happened to be incredibly self-absorbed was dating a very handsome guy in the office (and we happen to still be friends -the guy) - when she met my boyfriend she stared at me with a look that said "what are you DOING with him" and the way she looked at him told me it was all about his looks. I hope it's ok that I wasn't sorry when her handsome fiancee - my friend- broke off the engagement the next year because she was too high maintenance and he met someone else, his future wife. We were in our 30s at the time. She was the only one who ever reacted that way. Everyone else who I called my friend thought that we were a good match and never commented on his looks or height in a negative way because of course his looks and height were irrelevant to whether he was a good person and treated me well. Please please ignore those rude and ridiculous comments.

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Here's my two cents from the other side of the trenches. I had a bf for whom I was out of his league. Yes, we know that, and cringe (yes) when we see how less attractive he is. Yes, we are aware of how we nonetheless are attracted to him, and how much we love him. If there are other qualities going for you, great, this thing may well last. In my case, as soon as the love was over, I could not see many positive traits of his to stay.

My second bf had a paranoia that I was so much hotter than him. It was true. We are well aware of this unequal power. Your insecurity about this, especially if you bing it up a few times, is a turn off.. So try not to show it to her.

My friend's bf is so much less attractive and successful than she is. Well, she knows it, and treats him accordingly. Sadly. He's a great guy, but truth be told she makes remarks about his subpar physic all the time, and looks on the side a lot. I don't think their unequal relationship will last very long.

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Yes, we know that, and cringe (yes) when we see how less attractive he is.

 

Oh dear... really? Within my experience, if you have strong feelings for people, they become beautiful no matter what they look like. Cringing when you look at your partner is a very strong sign that something's wrong.

 

Probably this:

 

In my case, as soon as the love was over, I could not see many positive traits of his to stay.
Having few positive traits isn't related to looks...
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Wow, I'm overwhelmed with the response to this post. Thank you all—literally, I've thanked all your replies even Bromwood's!

 

I've victimized myself in times like these before but I'm proud of myself for sticking through. I'm reminding myself that I am a catch and she likes my humour, Italian heritage (we both come from traditional Italian backgrounds), style, sociability, eyes, thoughtfulness... I just need to keep choosing positive over negative, which is a refreshing change for me.

 

I have yet to show a hint of jealousy or insecurity to her as these thoughts have been kept to myself. I don't even want to plant the seed of "why are you with me?!" or "you could have any guy..." so I'll avoid that talk like the plague.

 

Thanks all! More input welcome...

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I'm always amused at these threads that deteriorate into implications that people who are good looking and look after themselves are shallow. Prejudice and stereotyping will always be well and alive on ENA. Now excuse while I do some weightlifting at the gym, so I can fall asleep in my own arms tonight admiring myself in the full length mirror beside my bed.

 

There is a league system. Most people are attracted to nice looking people. Not all good looking people are shallow d ickheads, not even most in my experience. I know a lot of fit/beautifu people. Most are just like everyone else. Check your resentment.

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OP, if you ask 10 different people to rate a person on looks on a scale from 0-10, you'll get 10 different ratings that will actually range from 0-10. My point is that "league" or rather what attracts us to a person is completely individual and totally in the individual eye of the beholder. There is no one size fits all "league" and thinking in leagues is insecurity defined.

 

If someone is with you, it's because they like you. It's that simple. If they didn't like you, they wouldn't be with you. You don't control attraction and attraction isn't rational, quantifiable, or something you can place in neat little ranking boxes. However, if you are insecure and you try, you will lose that person every single time. Not because they think you are below their "league" but because your insecurity wears people down and destroys relationships.

 

Btw, you may think that you don't show your insecurities, but you do. If you were self assured, the jerks at work wouldn't try to pick on your insecurities like that. However, they zeroed right in on them and hit you hard right where they know you are soft. It actually worked too as here you are, totally rattled by them. Work harder on yourself and your self assurance. If you were self assured and confident, you'd laugh in their face at their suggestion, but more importantly they wouldn't dare make it as they would know it's not going to work. They got under your skin because they know they can.

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For a good laugh, watch Hot Crazy Matrix - A Man's Guide to Women:

 

And relevant to the question:

 

A good, smart, employed with real job, and semi-attractive guy is hard to find.

 

I remember when my hubby was telling and old friend of ours that we were getting married. Our friend thought he was lying, and literally said, "she's out of your league." We had to send him an invite to prove it. Haha. Don't ever let anyone convince you that you aren't good enough for anyone. Your actions will tell this person if you are. Confidence and accountability are HOT HOT HOT!

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Btw, you may think that you don't show your insecurities, but you do. If you were self assured, the jerks at work wouldn't try to pick on your insecurities like that.

 

Oh, I know I'm showing signs of it...just not to her. This is why I'm resorting to coworker convos and this forum. I've struggled with self-esteem for too long but I'm righting to the ship and some of my reactions (and non-reactions) to things she's said are proof positive of this. Old habits die hard, I guess, so this is why I'm venting here rather than to her which may lead to a loss of interest.

 

I really need to focus on the "she's with me!" rather than the "shes with me?", y'know?

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Oh, I know I'm showing signs of it...just not to her. This is why I'm resorting to coworker convos and this forum. I've struggled with self-esteem for too long but I'm righting to the ship and some of my reactions (and non-reactions) to things she's said are proof positive of this. Old habits die hard, I guess, so this is why I'm venting here rather than to her which may lead to a loss of interest.

 

I really need to focus on the "she's with me!" rather than the "shes with me?", y'know?

 

Honestly, I find a lot of the time, at least in my social circles, the people who make these comments (normally guys) are basing it off their own internal aesthetic rating system. If you step back and try to be objective about the situation with regards to everyday people, you two are probably actually a lot more matched than you claim. If that is the case, it might be time to review your own judgements about other people and their worthiness of their partners based on aesthetics. Perhaps this is an exercise in humility?

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