Question about dating, sex, and relationships.

*Might be long. Included details and explanations.

 

New guy here with a question regarding an area I’m struggling with. Let me preface by saying I have no issues attracting women: getting them super interested , sweeping them off their feet, crazy excited around me, etc. The problem is keeping them interested over the long term (relationship), and escalating into sex. I have this sort of imbedded belief going on, where you have to develop a super strong connection and pretty much act like you’re together before you have sex and enter into a relationship. Something tells me this is backwards, and not the way things actually work. In the real world, you date and have sex THEN proceed into a relationship. It’s almost like I want assurance that this is the real deal, and not just sexual. But when we don’t have sex, as a result of my stupid beliefs, no relationship ever happens. We just remain stuck in a limbo until we get so attached and break things off and become heart-broken. Lol.

 

Part of the problem is the fact that women seem to only show interest in sex- even after we develop a strong connection, everything seems to be heading towards a relationship, etc. I get bugged out and become uncertain and anxious and drop the ball, because I’m already so invested. They are attached, as well. But it doesn’t seem like it goes beyond the more than friends, dating without the physical, in way too deep and so screwed phase. Like, I worry that all they want after all this time is sex. While at the same time, I don’t want to have sex without all the relationship stuff too. So, something is not right, here. The two are conflicting big time.

 

By the way I am and act, and how I attract women, leads them to just want sex (or so I presume; I might not be knowledgeable enough about how the process works, and how they expect things to go). There’s a lot of sparks, infatuation, seduction, flirting, touching, compliments, smiling, laughing, eye-locking, etc. Plus twirling of hair, being fidgety, soft and nervous, acting girly and vulnerable, getting real close, on cloud 9, anticipation, wanting to be around me, trying to get my attention, light slapping, etc. So, high attraction. The signs are all there. Definite sexual attraction and interest, by how we interact with each other and the things I say and do with them. Mostly focusing on them, and asking a lot of personal questions, and flirting, and showing interest, etc. They want to be around me; feel safe and excited, turned on and comfortable.

 

Being that I’m focused more on a relationship, I kind of steer things in that path before having sex, and that seems to screw things up over time (since I never have sex, or escalate, or reciprocate, and bail out of fear). They never lose interest until way later; like after we’re already in a relationship (of pretend). But I never escalate out of some kind of fear, which actually produces the same results I’m trying to avoid (no relationship).

 

At the same time, they never seem to push for any kind of relationship, and I seem to be waiting for that to happen. But they might be, too- then going ahead with it when I steer things that way. I don't know. I'm confused.

Even if we develop a strong emotional connection, hang around each other, flirt and seduce and touch, etc; the route always seems to be sexual in nature, on top of all those things: being close and friends to an extent. But there's a lot of scarcity, I guess game, and knowledge that we aren't just friends. The underlying tone is always sexual with high attraction after a little while. You can feel it.

 

When I show interest and steer things in a relationship path, they are definitely up for sex. So knowing what I want, how things have been, and where they seem to be heading, is that just part of the relationship piece for them? ‘Cause they never say anything. They just get horny and seductive and super interested, come around and give me every sign possible; waiting for me to escalate physically. But I never do, ‘cause of the same fear. I’m almost too comfortable and not risky in my head and beliefs. But not boring and unable to attract them. I just can’t seem to make the jump, even when they push for it.

 

Are things just supposed to be evolve naturally – including sex – without saying anything about it, or trying to define things? Is this how the process works? Or do they just want sex. Or am I way over-analyzing and over-thinking, and screwing my chances up every single time as a result?

 

As good as things are, it seems like there’s not a lot of connection building unless I initiate. They come to me to get me to initiate- then respond, reciprocate, etc. They’re definitely excited, open, etc, but I seem to have to make it that way- by how our interaction goes. Almost like I have to work for it, and chase them- while they decide.

So, that’s another way I never know what they want, or what’s going on. Which causes anxiety and uncertainty, and nothing fully develops as a result. I can’t read minds, or the situation, and end up staying stuck in the same situation until one of us gets tired of the confusion and leaves for good. Lol. With a nice, strong attachment and recovery process afterwards. All while they keep pushing for sex and trying to turn things physical- while I remain emotionally connected forever.

 

I think sex is a big part of connecting for women, and I’m messing things up with an unfounded fear by not escalating. Besides, you can’t have a relationship without the physical. And women like the uncertainty and crap like that, or not knowing or having everything defined and laid out; to have things happen and be spontaneous and unpredictable.

 

Appreciate any insights you guys have on this issue.

Once you unbrainwash yourself from all the pickup artist rubbish, you'll get what you want. Dating, sex and a relationship.

how I attract women, leads them to just want sex (or so I presume; I might not be knowledgeable enough about how the process works, and how they expect things to go). There’s a lot of sparks, infatuation, seduction, flirting, touching, compliments, smiling, laughing, eye-locking, etc. Plus twirling of hair, being fidgety, soft and nervous, acting girly and vulnerable, getting real close, on cloud 9, anticipation, wanting to be around me, trying to get my attention, light slapping, etc. So, high attraction. The signs are all there.

Once you unbrainwash yourself from all the pickup artist rubbish, you'll get what you want. Dating, sex and a relationship.

 

Hey, that's not helping. I was being dead serious, and looking for the right things. Did you even read what I wrote? That's how things are, as far as attracting people and progressing from there. I'm saying there are no issues, but I can't evolve that into a relationship- even with all the emotionally connecting and attachment.

It sounds like you are doing everything right but missing that window of opportunity to turn it into something meaningful. I put myself in the woman's place with you based on what you've shared and though I prefer to wait before I have sex with someone, if the guy stalls too long, it loses the momentum.

 

You use the word fear more than once and I suspect they sense it. Women like to sense the man is confidant in what he wants and is willing to do something about it. Not just go after sex, but pursue a woman that he has a genuine interest in.

 

You sound like you are getting in your own way here

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The way I wrote that might make it seem like I do this with everyone, and dating is a big game, or I'm desperate for a relationship. I'm just speaking in general terms, of how things go WHEN I find someone that I genuinely like, connect with, and try to progress into a relationship. There is a lot of fear. I don't know where it's coming from. Like, I need assurance even after they know what I want. Which turns them off, too, I think: to have everything defined and not being unpredictable and things like that.

You keep saying "every time". How often has this happened?

 

Fear and insecurity are a pretty normal part of starting a sexual/romantic connection with other people. And unfortunately our society conditions us to expect the man to make the first move. When you are getting physically connected do you kiss? Or is it all light touches and flirting? Do you get to making out?

You keep saying "every time". How often has this happened?

 

Fear and insecurity are a pretty normal part of starting a sexual/romantic connection with other people. And unfortunately our society conditions us to expect the man to make the first move. When you are getting physically connected do you kiss? Or is it all light touches and flirting? Do you get to making out?

Only if they push for it, or try to lead things that way. I probably need to be more assertive and lead the way, instead of relying on them to. It only ever goes as far as they take it.... with everything. If we make out, then they cuddle and get close and want sex, I just lay there. Lol. They do a lot of the touching. I just say things and act fun, or whatever. I always initiate conversations, and meeting up, and all those things. But nothing physical. Or even really setting up dates to go places. I always fear that they won't like me enough, or will reject my advances, and not want to go that way, or whatever. I friend-zone myself, while they think I'm friend-zoning them. Then we get all confused and heart-broken and never see each other again. Lol. Obviously needs to change. I only reassure them through behaviors and words that I do like them, I guess. Without getting physical. I end up talking a lot.

 

But, even if I seduce and talk sexual and things, and they are all ready to go back to whoever's place, all horny, I will sort of derail the conversation in a way and end it before they can actually come in. Like in my head, I think that's what they want: to not progress all the way. Like it's not how things are supposed to be. We're supposed to be together forever and wait for the right moment. They get annoyed and devastated by all this; thinking I don't like them. But I never come out and say that I do, either. There's a lot of stalling and fear involved.

You seem to be looking for some sort of structured, play by play scenario that's predictable, which will bring you enough comfort to initiate sex with a woman.

 

Relationships should be organic, unless you want the mail-order bride experience. There's really no rules, just preferences.

 

I'm sure the women your attracting dont "just want sex". But realistically it may be that your pursuing women who are more liberal with the timing of sex. Maybe you need to find more conservative women that are on your page with sexual progression. Or maybe you need to find a more aggressive type that will pro actively move things forward physically.

 

I guarantee you, you'll never know all the answers. Go have some sex, take some risks, be blind and stumble aimlessly through the vast cosmos of love, like everyone else. Its exhilarating. do those things that people do when they want to do things, and it will be easy.

Funny.. I've so often got the other end of the stick So many out there just aiming for sex and not showing much more interest in ME.. wanting to get to know me properly.. actual dates, etc.

 

it seems like there’s not a lot of connection building unless I initiate

- Then maybe learn when to back off. Stop being the one to initiate.

 

A relationship needs to build.. and continue on a good path. Then foundation needs to be built, in order to succeed in all forms.

 

Just to flirt with you... lay sexual hints etc... is flirty really.. and that's all.

 

Yes, sex is something.. but never everything. Beauty is only skin deep- and maybe you're attracting the wrong types of women.

Just because you're attractive, etc... don't take advantage of that. ( because you KNOW that will get you women.. doesn't mean you have to fall into something with every woman you meet)... That, can be mentally exhausting.

So, stop 'searching'.. and give it all time.

 

One day, a woman of whom is truly into you of all levels will be of success and you'll feel right with this one.

Give it time....

Yes, flirting and seducing is all it is... because I never escalate and back off when they do. It's almost like I feel safe in this zone. And I try to keep it that way forever. But there's a lot of uncertainty, anxiety, pulling on heart strings, walking on eggshells, fear of loss that comes with that. Like, you're invested and attached, but not together. It can mess you up pretty bad. Especially when you don't see each other.

 

Yes, I seem to be more forward and interested and pursuant than they are... which is kind of what I don't understand. It's pretty mutual for the first good while (even 6 months), then I end up doing most of the pursuing and contacting, etc, which they're always up for and full-on with. But I don't understand how the very thing that causes a person to fall for another results in the other person having lowered interest. Like when you come on too strong, show too much interest, are attentive and caring and focused on them in so many ways. If you don't do anything, you don't feel anything. But if you do too much, they lose interest. So, what in the world...

 

And yes, this situation can last a long time. The last one I had lasted for a full year. But both of us end up so drained and confused. I don't think this is how it's supposed to work. Lol. Like, you're supposed to be physical and together. Not all this delayed communication and uncertainty; guessing games and confusion. It's push-pull to the extreme, and messes with your emotions. Like, you can't wait to see them; feel at ease when around them; but you're not together, so it's unhealthy and nothing happens. Those feelings are still there and pulling on your heart strings like crazy. I HAVE to get this release and talk to this person, and get my emotional fulfillment. Otherwise I feel empty and drained, and can't wait to see them again. They become a serious addiction. I think this is how affairs work, too. Same idea, I think.

 

Funny.. I've so often got the other end of the stick So many out there just aiming for sex and not showing much more interest in ME.. wanting to get to know me properly.. actual dates, etc.

 

it seems like there’s not a lot of connection building unless I initiate

- Then maybe learn when to back off. Stop being the one to initiate.

 

A relationship needs to build.. and continue on a good path. Then foundation needs to be built, in order to succeed in all forms.

 

Just to flirt with you... lay sexual hints etc... is flirty really.. and that's all.

 

Yes, sex is something.. but never everything. Beauty is only skin deep- and maybe you're attracting the wrong types of women.

Just because you're attractive, etc... don't take advantage of that. ( because you KNOW that will get you women.. doesn't mean you have to fall into something with every woman you meet)... That, can be mentally exhausting.

So, stop 'searching'.. and give it all time.

 

One day, a woman of whom is truly into you of all levels will be of success and you'll feel right with this one.

Give it time....

You seem to be looking for some sort of structured, play by play scenario that's predictable, which will bring you enough comfort to initiate sex with a woman.

 

Relationships should be organic, unless you want the mail-order bride experience. There's really no rules, just preferences.

 

I'm sure the women your attracting dont "just want sex". But realistically it may be that your pursuing women who are more liberal with the timing of sex. Maybe you need to find more conservative women that are on your page with sexual progression. Or maybe you need to find a more aggressive type that will pro actively move things forward physically.

 

I guarantee you, you'll never know all the answers. Go have some sex, take some risks, be blind and stumble aimlessly through the vast cosmos of love, like everyone else. Its exhilarating. do those things that people do when they want to do things, and it will be easy.

Ah, you have it down. Great answer. Thanks. In ways, I do all that stuff already: we just don't have sex, or become an item. There's still all the crazy everything else. But I don't think it's the full package deal, which is what I'm looking for. But I don't allow that when we don't have sex or become physical or act more direct and communicative. There's a lot of almost game-playing, passive-aggressiveness, beating around the bush, just having fun while developing serious feelings in the background (and not telling each other) going on. I should probably be more assertive and direct with my intentions, and not back down from sex. Become more initative physically. But I still worry that that's not what THEY want. That women don't like sex, and want to wait forever until everything's perfect, etc. Probably need to kill those unfounded beliefs. Because they're not matching reality. But in a way, I'd like if they were more direct and things, too... instead of trying to figure out what each other wants and not doing anything about it. I think my fears and insecurities are making them afraid and insecure. I fear rejection, so they do. Bounce off each other in that way. There's a lot of mutual stuff like that... only as far as the other goes, or what the other does, or whatever. If I don't do anything; they won't do anything... and we just remain stuck in this limbo.

Having sex is literally the only thing that makes someone not just a friend. And your thoughts that women don't like sex are completely unfounded.

 

I'm not surprised women are confused by you. I'm honestly very confused by your posts. It makes no sense. Why wouldn't you make it obvious you like someone you want to be in a relationship with? Why play games for an entire year?? It's pointless. To say that someone only wants sex after sticking around for six months to a year without sex isn't logical.

 

I get the feeling you have some deep seeded fear about sex or some backwards views on it, probably due to your upbringing. Sex brings closeness and intimacy for most people. It's an instinct that drives the very existence of our species.

 

Maybe you're asexual? Something to think about.

It's pretty mutual for the first good while (even 6 months), then I end up doing most of the pursuing and contacting, etc, which they're always up for and full-on with. But I don't understand how the very thing that causes a person to fall for another results in the other person having lowered interest.

- You are aware of the Honeymoon phase.. right? In general this last the first few months.. where everything is great!

And it's within this time.. do you come to see IF you're a good fit.. or not. ( could be what's going on in this part).

 

 

you're supposed to be physical and together. Not all this delayed communication and uncertainty; guessing games and confusion. It's push-pull to the extreme, and messes with your emotions. Like, you can't wait to see them; feel at ease when around them; but you're not together, so it's unhealthy and nothing happens. Those feelings are still there and pulling on your heart strings like crazy. I HAVE to get this release and talk to this person, and get my emotional fulfillment. Otherwise I feel empty and drained, and can't wait to see them again. They become a serious addiction.

- this part may be laying heavily on YOUR end. This could be a problem of YOURS- and you have to deal with that.

 

So- you saying these 'relationships' are leaving you worse than before.. and it keeps adding up on you?

Then you have to stop.

 

When one agree's on entering a relationship, it should be good. You should be feeling content. Happy.

if things aren't feeling right- then don't let it all linger on.

 

One should not be continously feeling drained... or insecure etc. ( I've been thru a few in my days and now I KNOW withing weeks or a month, whether we're compatible- or if they are 'unstable', which is affecting me, etc.

No matter my feelings for them.. I know that I have to remove myself from it all. ( Inner strength for my own well being).

 

And with YOU feeling empty & drained... I'm concerned you're going to end up a simple mess at this rate

 

Have you taken a good amount of time away from getting involved??

 

I had a short term one abt 9 mos ago- and it affected me deeply for some reason. I've been on my own since. Working on ME since then. Because I KNOW I am not of sound mind & heart.. and know I've got nothing to 'give'.

we just don't have sex, or become an item. There's still all the crazy everything else. But I don't think it's the full package deal, which is what I'm looking for

- what you are looking for?

 

You've even mentioned you've been involved b4 for times of at least 6 months... has sex been part of it by then? It should be.

Sex is intimate times- sharing ones self- fully. and normal part of being 'involved'.

 

Unless.. you're withholding.. ( form of control- and denying them full aspect of being involved with you).

That.. can cause your 'loss'.

 

- or am I seeing this wrong?

I think my fears and insecurities are making them afraid and insecure. I fear rejection, so they do. Bounce off each other in that way. There's a lot of mutual stuff like that..

- Okay.. if this is a problem.. YOUR fears... etc.. Yes, this can surely be problems- and it;s showing thru your 'attempts' at getting a decent relationship going.

 

Might want to consider some prof help- if this is going to continously intervene w/ your 'relationships'.

 

Im just concerned, that with these problems you're having- that you're going thru a number of women too quickly? ( Multi short term relationships?) if so.. that WILL wear you thin ( More damages towards you)-- another negative

Having sex is literally the only thing that makes someone not just a friend. And your thoughts that women don't like sex are completely unfounded.

 

I'm not surprised women are confused by you. I'm honestly very confused by your posts. It makes no sense. Why wouldn't you make it obvious you like someone you want to be in a relationship with? Why play games for an entire year?? It's pointless. To say that someone only wants sex after sticking around for six months to a year without sex isn't logical.

 

I get the feeling you have some deep seeded fear about sex or some backwards views on it, probably due to your upbringing. Sex brings closeness and intimacy for most people. It's an instinct that drives the very existence of our species.

 

Maybe you're asexual? Something to think about.

 

I agree. Usually a couple might get intimate- if both are showing those 'signs' by the 2nd or 3rd date.. because even that needs to be explored for both to see if they're a good match in that as well.

 

I don't agree on something just being all about sex ( fwb situations). Only if it's full interest from both sides and they do plan to see each other and consider working on something together ( building a relationship).

Are you ever up front with women you date and inform them you don't want to rush into sex? I cant have sex with a girl until I am very comfortable with her. If that is your preference too just tell them on the first date you would like to wait a bit. That should get rid of any girls just wanting sex. You sound like a huge tease though and I understand their confusion. But your entitled to your preferences. Just let them know.

It sounds like you're a virgin or afraid of sex or have performance issues or your sexuality is not heterosexual. Have you considered getting therapy for this odd behavior? we make out, then they cuddle and get close and want sex, I just lay there.

Thanks everyone for the replies. It has helped, and made me look at things I never even thought of. It makes a lot of sense. I just kind of threw this out there, not expecting much. I will try to respond as soon as I can.

 

One thing I would like to point out, and maybe why I play games like this, is being direct and nice and open, etc, wasn't effective in the past. Girls would get bored quickly; too predictable, unexciting, etc. That has changed with a lot of stuff I do now. They're all excited, anticipating, can't wait to see what happens next, etc. So, the game definitely works to build attraction and anticipation, and getting someone interested, and looking forward to more; not knowing where things are headed, but over-joyed that they're going well, and trying to keep it that way. And they jump in, as well. And it works both ways. But I drag it on for so long, both due to my fears and the fact that I have no idea what the other person wants.

 

So again, it's a catch 22. Playing these games builds their attraction and interest, but neither party knows what the other person really wants. That's why I asked if things are just supposed to happen naturally, and progress from stage to stage without saying anything. And then eventually give it a title, or talk about exclusivity, or whatever. But I think the physical intimacy is lacking to make that happen.

 

When all this happens, and they try to make the physical jump- escalating things further- I ended up backing down, and staying in the same zone we were in forever. Which I'm certain is irritating them to no end. Because they act pretty devastated afterwards; as if I don't like them. Because, just when everything is super perfect and about to build further, I act like a coward. That's where I fear that all they want is sex- when it's probably just part of the whole build up we've been having. On one hand, I would like to know for certain, but on the other, that would kill the whole vibe. So we don't say or define anything when all this happens. Everything just develops naturally. They just kind of push for sex after a while, and I back down from it- thinking that's all they want, when that time comes. 'Cause nothing is really ever defined. I guess that's part of the whole dating process?

 

Honestly, looking back, it's almost like I'm doing everything except having sex or the physical aspect. Like that part just gets omitted. It's like we're dating, all these sparks and anticipation and getting to know each other on deep and person levels, and having fun and being flirty... then we act like we're in a relationship... caring and attentive, etc... all while never having sex, or being in a relationship. Like it's pretend. But the feelings, emotions, behaviors are definitely real. Most of the time, I act like we're in a relationship more than they do. Obviously because we're not in one, and haven't had sex, or said anything, or progressed things. Like I'm living in some kind of fantasy world. A lot of times, girls get sick of this back and forth crap; never having sex, or escalating and making things happen (either with sex, or making plans, or progressing things period); and find someone else who will fulfill all those needs. Or they'll try to keep me as a side piece of sorts, 'cause I can fulfill the non-sexual part and make them super happy. But that leads to a huge disaster, with emotional cheating and devastation all around.

 

I guess I'm scared about the idea of relationships in general. Like how to keep someone interested, and balance all these things, and keep them interested. As I said, being unpredictable and exciting, and having them not know and be anticipated with all these sparks, while at the same time letting my intentions be known and making plans and trying to progress things. Can you do both of those things? If I'm direct and open from the get-go, and don't let things build up, they get bored and lose interest. But if I never progress things or make plans, the same thing happens. It's like what you would think would turn someone off (not knowing where you stand) actually makes them thrilled and crazy. Then you have all the flirting and tension and getting to know each other, and things are just crazy good for both parties. So I have the datingish aspect down pretty good, in the sense of getting someone super interested. But not knowing where either of us stands, or where things are going, causes me to panic and bail out of confusion (only to come back and make sure they're still interested). And the cycle repeats itself until we finally get tired of the back and forth with no progress. But I don't really know how to progress, either. I always wait for them to do it, and they just drop hints and set up situations to get me to do it. Lol.

 

I worry that if we do all these things, and have sex, and I become direct about things, they'll get bored and lose interest. Because in the early stages, when nothing is defined and you're just bouncing off each other's behaviors, everything is crazy good and they're super happy. But when I become comfortable and open and attentive, etc, basically enter into relationship mode, they start to lose interest. That's why I said it makes no sense: the same thing that causes a person to fall in love (attentive, care, open, affection, etc) seems to repel the other person. Like, they're no longer a challenge or exciting, and I'm getting bored and losing interest. But would this be different if there was physical activity, as well? Because that is missing, and I don't know if that makes such a big difference that they wouldn't lose interest and would progress into the relationship stage... or if they just want unpredictability and excitement. But like someone said earlier, it seems like I want a structured path with all this- instead of just doing things and learning along the way.

 

I hope this all makes sense.