Can a relationship last without trust?

Hi all. I feel this is going to be a very long post as I need to go right back to the beginning to explain it all so you know my posistion.

I have been with my husband for nearly 13 years. When we met I had just broken up with an absuive partner and was a single mother of one. I was in a kind of vulnerable state. I met my husband and he was wonderful. He told me everything I wanted to hear and we fell in love quickly. I knew we were a little different. He was into tattoos and bikes and piercings and I was into video games. But we got along great. We we're married and had a child within the next two years.

Over the following years he was still wonderful, always telling me what I wanted to hear. We never argued because he would simply agree with everything I said. I started to notice him lying a bit, about silly things, like spending small amounts of money or eating my chocolate etc. we went through a rough patch after the birth of our third (his second) son. I had major post natal depression and didn't want anyone to be around me, including him. He was by my side through all of it, putting up with all the horrible things I said and eventually we got through it stronger than ever.

We had a pretty happy and settled life until around 2 years ago. I had noticed him lying a lot more, about just about everything, but still they were relatively minor things. Then one day I was trying to use his iPad to access one of my books and a message popped up on his messenger. It was from a girl. I watched the message exchange for a while (he was on his phone) and he was telling her how beautiful she was and asking for more pics of her. I had never been suspicious of him before. He just didn't seem the type to cheat, and plus I don't really mind flirting. But what really got me was that this girl was nothing like me at all. She was very rough in her appearance and language. She had long blonde hair, partially shaved, heavily tattooed and pierced, with a large tattoo on her face. It kind if got me wondering about the types of girls he was attracted to, and if I was really his type. I ended up talking to him about it, he said it meant nothing and I believed him, and he assured me he was attracted to me. A few months went on and he started getting involved with a MC club. He had always wanted a Harley Davidson, but it was just something we couldn't afford. I told him that I wanted him to be happy and so as soon as we had enough money we would look at getting a bike. He lost his job around this time and was unemployed for 9 months. Luckily we had savings (which he wanted to spend on the bike previously). We ended up going through most of our savings then he got a job and a tax return that replenished the savings. 2 weeks after getting the job he went and bought a MC without even discussing it with me. I was furious because we had only just got through a long period of unemployment and he was still on probabtion. (He actually lost this job 3 months later and were still struggling for money now) He said he was sorry and he was under pressure from people to join the club. This is something he does, tries to make people happy, even if it ends up hurting me. We started going to therapy after this and talked about the issues of him making bad choices, lying, avoiding conflict and people pleasing, even if pleasing one person meant upsetting another. The therapy lasted until recently when we could no longer afford it.

he's still being wonderful and saying everything I want to hear, but I'm starting to realise it's part of his conflict avoidance. So time goes on and the club want him to join. I meet with the club, and they really aren't my kind of people. "No one can tell me what to do" sorts. The biggest problem I have is they have a confederate flag on their patch (I'm black). I tell him I can't be married to someone who rides around wearing the confederate flag. He says he would rather be with me than the club.

A few weeks later he tells me the boys have had a meeting and decided they won't have the confederate flag anymore as it's part of an old patch and it's not what they're about anymore. (I still don't know if this s true) I tell him if he really wants to join he can, but I don't want anything to do with it. I just don't believe those values are lost that easily.

So over all this time he's been continuing with the lying and conflict avoidance, but over nothing major yet. 2 nights ago I walk into the bedroom and he's on the phone. I lay down next to him and pick up a book, he acts suspicious jumping off the bed and then pacing around the room so I'm out of ear shot. I hear bits and pieces of the convo. Something about money and catching up tomorrow. He gets off the phone and I ask him who called. He tells me just some guy he worked with. I ask what he was talking about. He says just work stuff. I get in the shower and I ask about the $300. He blanches. I've caught him in a lie. He's silent for a while and then makes up a story about his brother (biological. Not in the MC) needing help to move something. I keep pressing and the story changes to his brothers friend needing someone to bash someone for money, but apparently he said no. So I ask about the supposed meeting tomorrow, which he denies even though I tell him I heard it with my own ears. He continues to deny it. I get angry and we go to bed not talking. Wake up in the morning and I tell him I'm done with his lies, we need to seperate. Now we've argued before, and I've told him to leave before. This is the first time he hasn't tried pleading with me or promising to change. He packs his bags and he goes.

I get suspicious and log on to his FB. I expect to see further discussion of this money and bashing people business. I don't. But I do see some of the secret groups he belongs to. Groups where they make fun of black people and aboriginals. Other groups were they share naked pictures of women and it appears to be without their knowledge. They rate the pics. Say disgusting things about them, and refer to all women as "2 holes". I am mortified and feel violated and betrayed. He must pick up that I'm on his FB because next thing I know I'm booted off and the password is changed.

So I'm up literally the whole night, literally sick (diarrhoea) from stress. Who the hell is this man I'm married to! Has he been this way the whole time?! Has he been just lying and telling me what I want to hear all this time and I've been too blinded by the pretty words?

So I'm thinking, we have to break up. I can't be with a man who thinks this way about women and black people, or who gets involved in criminal activity. But then I also think that I do love him (or am attached to him) because he is very kind and loving to me. I don't know what to do, part of me is saying we absolutely have to break up, but the other part is saying he still treats me good and may not actually have these views but just think it's funny or cool, or is trying to fit in. And then I worry about the kids, should they be around someone like this? And then I think even if we break up he's still gong to be around them, and maybe I should just try to respect his differences and keep the family together.

So I'm totally lost and don't know what to do. Can this relationship be saved? Is kindness enough to keep us going if there's no trust?

I read the title of this thread and already knew the answer (which is no). But I read your story as well. And it is still firmly: no. A relationship cannot last without trust.

Trust is the backbone of a relationship. You will otherwise become paranoid, on eggshells, wandering, overanalysing -- and with good reason as he probably also will not change. The red flags were there when he lied about small things in early stages - why lie at all? I'm so sorry to say this but he is not a good person if he is lying so often with no conscience. And the messages sent to that woman that you believed meant nothing? It's another indication of the deceit he is capable of. That isn't good behaviour in a relationship. It isn't loving.... and IMO you should have higher standards - i.e. don't say that you 'don't really mind flirting'. You should mind! And you are allowed to mind!

You deserve to be treated with respect always, just the fluff and nice words isn't enough. Definitely not.

My guess is, you were used to someone abusive from your former relationship, so anyone after an abusive relationship who is just a bit nicer, seems suddenly on a pedestal. And that's why you jumped into this so suddenly. And now, your perception is distorted. You need to spend some time single, focus on your children, and yourself, and when you can then also get to know people, date more, and meet other (better) guys. One's with the same value systems and morals as you.

They are out there, they exist and they are waiting for you. The longer you hang on to this bad relationship, the later you'll meet someone who is better for you.

Be strong, you can do this.

I actually don't think it's the different values and beliefs that bothers me. It's more that I don't know what his values and beliefs are because he lies. And I know if we try to sit down and talk about our beliefs so we can find common ground, we won't get anywhere because he'll just lie and tell me what I want to hear and so nothing will really be resolved. It's not fair! Why can't I just make him be honest I feel like 13 years of my life has been wasted. That my future hopes and dreams have disappeared. How am I going to raise my kids? I was raised without a father, I hated it, and I can't imagine doing that to my kids.

No.

I remember calling my mom and asking this question, same as you. I tested her answer. She was right and so am I, so is Pretzel. No.

The starting point of a relationship is respect and trust. Two people may feel companionship and attraction, and that my bind them for a time. To begin to form a unit, a couple, those two peopls needto respect and trust each other. That is where coupledom begins.

Otherwise, it is two people who have found a complementary way to serve their own interests.

The answer to your question is no.

You know, I had to answer a question very similar to this recently with my gal. I saw her buttering some tortillas. BUTTERING. I said, "You idiot, what the heck are you doing???"

She said, "I'm making quesadillas."

O-M-G

The level of anger that come over me. Quesadillas?? WITH BUTTER?? I told her flat out, "Hey, you fart face, quesadillas are made with corn oil. Without corn oil, it's just two tortillas and a bunch of stuff in the middle."

So just like you can't make a quesadillas without corn oil, you sure as hell can't have a relationship without trust.

Why would your kids have to be raised without a father if you two split up? Wouldn't you two share custody?

I wonder if these people he's corresponding with know his wife is Black. Somehow I doubt it.

"may not actually have these views but just think it's funny or cool"

Do you really want to be married to someone who thinks those views are "funny" or "cool"? Do you want your children to grow up thinking those beliefs are "funny" or "cool"? Do YOU think they are "funny" or "cool"?

You are married to someone who thinks the right thing to do is to follow the crowd. And he picks some terrible crowds to follow.

So, no, I could not stay married to someone who does and says the things your husband says and does.

And for the record, I DID divorce my husband because of his views. He kept them hidden from me until after we got married, but literally on our wedding night he announced that since we were now married I would have to defer to him at all times. He told me that since he was the husband, his word was law. Nice of him to hide that from me until we were married! And he also didn't want me working because he wanted complete and total control of me and the family, and he couldn't have it if I was around other people or if I had my own money. So, we're now divorced.

And my kids did NOT "grow up without a father". Their father has been very present in their lives. Fortunately, they do not share his views on gender roles.

Yes. I guess I meant without a father in the home. My father was totally absent. I didn't meet him until I was 30. He will still have a relationship with them if we split, which worries me . At least when we're together he'll at least pretend to have respect for women. If we split up he may no longer feel the need to pretend and god knows what he'll teach my kids.

Aren't the children half black? Do you think he'd teach them that they're less than human or something?

Because if he tries that garbage, I guarantee they will CHOOSE to stay away from him.

You should have been upset with the flirting. This is cheating. The pathological lying should have been a deal breaker! The racist comments and misogyny are disgusting!

How you consider to continue living with this pig! You also need to think about the negative impact this behavior has on your children, as they come to know his views on women and minorities. .

You need to create some boundaries in your life! Expect more for yourself!

When you leave this guy, you should not date for a long while. Get some counseling, as you are attracted to terrible partners.

Were there any signs he was a racist before you got married? When did all this change?

Aren't the children half black? Do you think he'd teach them that they're less than human or something?

Because if he tries that garbage, I guarantee they will CHOOSE to stay away from him.

Yes! That's what I mean...if he's racist why did he breed with a black woman? It just makes no sense. And technically the kids have west African blood, although the youngest two have caramel blonde hair, the eldest has darker hair and darker skin. The younger two could pass for tanned white people.

You should have been upset with the flirting. This is cheating. The pathological lying should have been a deal breaker! The racist comments and misogyny are disgusting!

 

How you consider to continue living with this pig! You also need to think about the negative impact this behavior has on your children, as they come to know his views on women and minorities. .

 

You need to create some boundaries in your life! Expect more for yourself!

 

When you leave this guy, you should not date for a long while. Get some counseling, as you are attracted to terrible partners.

You see that's the problem. He's not a pig at all. At least not on the outside. He is the sweetest kindest guy you will ever meet. In fact people have said this to me. In fact all of my friends are treating me like I'm a psycho because I'm thinking of breaking up with a perfect guy. This is all driving me crazy! He's just so dishonest I have no clue who I married.

And I'm actually not interested in dating at all. I've really had enough of relationships in general, but especially romantic ones. I don't even know what the point is anymore.

Were there any signs he was a racist before you got married? When did all this change?

In my pre judgey way I did think "oh heavily tattooed white guy, must be a racist" but when I actually got to know him and he was so sweet I thought no way. What kind of racist marries and has kids with a black woman?

You see that's the problem. He's not a pig at all. At least not on the outside. He is the sweetest kindest guy you will ever meet. In fact people have said this to me. In fact all of my friends are treating me like I'm a psycho because I'm thinking of breaking up with a perfect guy. This is all driving me crazy! He's just so dishonest I have no clue who I married.

 

And I'm actually not interested in dating at all. I've really had enough of relationships in general, but especially romantic ones. I don't even know what the point is anymore.

Who gives a sh*t what other people think. YOU know what is happening, and that should be enough!!!!!

So its taken me so long to reply to this thread. my whole world has been turned upside down, including the dogs knocking over my shelf smashing my photo frames and my wi fi modem so i had no interent to do my assignments etc.

so anyway I was stupid and gave him another chance. He lied to me pretty much instantly. Like withing an hour. and while I was at home with the kids stressing over our relationship, trying to work, study, look after dogs, deal with our finances etc. he was off smoking ice with his brother and messing around on a local hook up page!

so obviously i need to leave him. but I see now just how manipulative he is. he was even threatending suicide to make me feel guilty, not to mention going to all our family and friends trying to make himself look like the innocent party.

How am I going to do this? I can see it being messy. I just want it to be amicable but dont think it can.

Can a relationship last without trust?

Yes, but only if you're a masochist and enjoy being a doormat.

It will n be brutal leaving any abusive relationship including all gyrations they put you through. Don't negotiate, stay firm and just robot through it with zero emotion or second guessing.