Looking for clarity.

Hello everyone,

I'm going through a type of breakup that I have never experienced before. Just over a year ago, I (27) began dating a man (30) going a divorce. I was extremely cautious when I first learned he was not yet legally divorced, however, he assured me they had been separated for 7 months (only married for 1.5 years) and that any contact between them was in regards to the upcoming divorce which could not be granted until 1 full year of separation had passed.

Knowing this, I attempted to proceed with the relationship slowly with caution, however, things moved quickly as I'm learning they often do with people going through a divorce. I felts extremely passionate about him, that he was so open about his feelings and mine, that we truly understood each other. Our relationship became intense, we spent much of our time together. As we began to get closer, the contact with his ex, and him leaning on me emotionally through the process, became increasingly an issue for me. We had many disagreements about this, and when May had come, when he could legally divorce his ex and he did not, I decided to end our relationship.

Having felt emotionally drained, used, and exhausted, I decided to travel internationally for a month. I did not expect to hear from my now ex after I returned, so I was surprised when he contacted me to say that he had finalized his divorce while I was away and wanted to try dating again. I agreed, hopeful things could be different. However, although the divorce was finalized and his ex wife was now living abroad, the contact continued and he said that they were now platonic friends. This, coupled with the casual flings he had had while I was away, worried me, and I believe triggered my own insecurities.

One night in September, after having far too much to drink and feeling abandoned by him (he seemed more interested in pleasing my friends than me when I requested to go home), I exploded in an angry tirade. I don't remember much of what I said, but what I do was not kind. The next day, after I profusely apologized for my behaviour, he said he was unsure if he could continue to date me and be vulnerable as I had hurt him so much that night.

I tried for months after that night to redeem myself, to show him that he could trust me again, but in November he said he felt his feelings change for me that night. We continued to date until before Christmas, after which he decided that he wanted to be single, and that he didn't think I was The One, even though he had said the opposite so many times before.

After a week or so of no contact, we began seeing each other again. However, it was not the same, and he was going on dates with other women. I followed suit and went on dates with other men, but I did not ever feel the spark I did with him. However, a couple weeks ago he began seeing a younger woman more consistently and became intimate with her. He has wanted to keep seeing me as a friend and continued to initiate contact time with me, however, I told him I could not be his platonic friend. I have reimplemented no contact since.

I am now dealing with strong negative emotions, specifically feeling used, like a bridge between his ex wife and this new relationship. Before implimenting no contact, he let me know various things about this new relationship that he was unwilling to do with me, such as set boundaries with his ex and other women, prioritizing her over his friends, etc. Deep down, I feel this new woman is reaping the rewards of all the hard work I gave to my ex. What's worse, and I do feel horrible for thinking this, is that in my opinion the new woman is far less attractive, educated, or successful as me. For some reason, I find this to be a particularly difficult pill to swallow.

Presently, I've found it incredibly difficult to let this person, who had become my best friend, go once and for all. I'm angry and hurt that he did not see value in me, someone who has been there for him through the good and the bad, and instead would rather start with someone new to replace me. He has already begun to spend most of his time with her and introduce her to his friends, just as he did with me. I feel taken advantage of, forgotten, and replaced. I truly believed we had a special bond, I'm certain he thought so too. Part of me wonders if this new relationship will even last, and part of me feels I shouldn't care.

However, the truth is, I truly miss this person and after going in several dates with others, I still have not felt a fraction of the connection I did with him. It was electric, physically and emotionally. After over a year invested in this person, it feels daunting and heartbreaking to move on. I plan though to continue to try and move on, however, part of me feels like our story isn't done.

Thank you for reading, any insight would be helpful.

Sorry to hear this. It sounds rocky and turbulent from start to finish. Maybe he's just not the right guy, even if he's legally divorced now.

May had come, when he could legally divorce his ex and he did not, I decided to end our relationship. he contacted me to say that he had finalized his divorce while I was away and wanted to try dating again.

One night, after having far too much to drink and feeling abandoned by him , I exploded in an angry tirade. I don't remember much of what I said, but what I do was not kind.

Hi. Sorry to hear about this. My thoughts are that he is absolutely not in an emotional place to give you a secure or healthy relationship. Unless he has children with his ex, I don't believe there's any real reason that they be friends. There was a reason they decided to end their marriage, although you didn't mention the reason during your post so I won't assume who was 'at fault' if any of them were.

What concerns me even more is that he had flings with other women when you were not around, then when you are back, he wants to continuse with you! He sounds like he is looking to fill a void from his divorce. Don't be the fool who fills that space for him. You will never get the respect you want from him. I don't think you should have apologised for your giving out your emotions either - you obviously needed it at the time. Don't take back your truth but do take back your personal power and get the hell out of this disaster.

I don't think what you did is unforgivable, you felt abandoned and you expressed in the wrong way. I'm always good even when people treat me badly, doesn't mean I'm a door mat though.

Hi. Sorry to hear about this. My thoughts are that he is absolutely not in an emotional place to give you a secure or healthy relationship. Unless he has children with his ex, I don't believe there's any real reason that they be friends. There was a reason they decided to end their marriage, although you didn't mention the reason during your post so I won't assume who was 'at fault' if any of them were.

What concerns me even more is that he had flings with other women when you were not around, then when you are back, he wants to continuse with you! He sounds like he is looking to fill a void from his divorce. Don't be the fool who fills that space for him. You will never get the respect you want from him. I don't think you should have apologised for your giving out your emotions either - you obviously needed it at the time. Don't take back your truth but do take back your personal power and get the hell out of this disaster.

Thank you for your reply. He does not share any children with his ex, but they did get a dog together but she is now living abroad. Do you think he'll be different for this other woman? I can't seem to get over how he stopped contact with his ex wife for her but was unwilling to do so with me. I suppose timing played a part, but it truly doesn't seem fair.

I am sorry you are going through this experience. I agree with the poster above that what you had done is forgivable. It was only once and you were angry. That said his unforgiving behaviour is a red flag. What makes you think that having invested in him some more years this would not have happened? Only then you might have had children and property to share..

I also don't think it is a good sign that he uses women as a bridge. A physically and emotionally strong guy shouldn't.

You have a lot value, and it is your responsibility to find a guy ho sees it and treasures it. This one doesn't. To stress over someone who he doesn't see your value begs the question, but do you see it yourself?

I am sorry you are going through this experience. I agree with the poster above that what you had done is forgivable. It was only once and you were angry. That said his unforgiving behaviour is a red flag. What makes you think that having invested in him some more years this would not have happened? Only then you might have had children and property to share..

 

I also don't think it is a good sign that he uses women as a bridge. A physically and emotionally strong guy shouldn't.

 

You have a lot value, and it is your responsibility to find a guy ho sees it and treasures it. This one doesn't. To stress over someone who he doesn't see your value begs the question, but do you see it yourself?

You bring up some very valid points. I suppose I mostly regret my needy and insecure behaviour, I wonder if things would have been different had I been more firm to my own boundaries, and given more space like this new woman seems to.

However, I do feel a lot of his unforgiving behaviour to me was displaced, like it should have been for his ex wife rather than me. I suppose deep down I thought he would thank/reward me for always being there for him, but instead it seems he began to respect/value me less and less.

You bring up some very valid points. I suppose I mostly regret my needy and insecure behaviour, I wonder if things would have been different had I been more firm to my own boundaries, and given more space like this new woman seems to.

 

However, I do feel a lot of his unforgiving behaviour to me was displaced, like it should have been for his ex wife rather than me. I suppose deep down I thought he would thank/reward me for always being there for him, but instead it seems he began to respect/value me less and less.

I bet things won't work out with her beyond the 1-2 years like they did neither with his wife nor with you. Again, to stress out over something you didn't have at the time - another version of you (more secure etc.) doesn't do any good, only perpetuates the cycle of "ifs" and results in low self esteem. Why don't you say, "Look, i was who I was then - needy, insecure - but now I got the lesson, and I'll work on myself so that when I meet a great guy again, this won't happen".

I think it's human nature to respect/value less people whom we use. On the other hand, healthy boundaries make people a way more attractive. Another lesson for you..

I bet things won't work out with her beyond the 1-2 years like they did neither with his wife nor with you. Again, to stress out over something you didn't have at the time - another version of you (more secure etc.) doesn't do any good, only perpetuates the cycle of "ifs" and results in low self esteem. Why don't you say, "Look, i was who I was then - needy, insecure - but now I got the lesson, and I'll work on myself so that when I meet a great guy again, this won't happen".

 

I think it's human nature to respect/value less people whom we use. On the other hand, healthy boundaries make people a way more attractive. Another lesson for you..

I'm slowly learning. Do you think there's anything to be gained by hoping for reconciliation? I am sticking with no contact and working on myself, which I think he needs too actually, but I can't help thinking that we aren't done yet.

I'm slowly learning. Do you think there's anything to be gained by hoping for reconciliation? I am sticking with no contact and working on myself, which I think he needs too actually, but I can't help thinking that we aren't done yet.

I am sorry to say something harsh but necessary. You put a low value on yourself already by hoping for reconciliation with someone who a) used you, b) doesn't value or respect you, c) exhibits unforgiving behaviour that is incompatible with a LTR. Now, if you were that guy and you knew you had used the lady for your needs at the time (emotional, physical), and she was well pleased to be used, would you want to get back with her? Why would you? There's a whole new world of exciting fresh girls.

What is worrying to me is that you cling to the idea of reconciliation. This will put you in a vicious cycle of not linking anyone and clinging to the idea of a relationship with him even more. You need to find peace inside yourself, and move on with a fully open heart. Until your heart is closed, your mind is angry, you won't meet anyone worthy. While if you did forgive him and found peace inside yourself, you will definitely meet people whom you will feel attracted to.

I am sorry to say something harsh but necessary. You put a low value on yourself already by hoping for reconciliation with someone who a) used you, b) doesn't value or respect you, c) exhibits unforgiving behaviour that is incompatible with a LTR. Now, if you were that guy and you knew you had used the lady for your needs at the time (emotional, physical), and she was well pleased to be used, would you want to get back with her? Why would you? There's a whole new world of exciting fresh girls.

 

What is worrying to me is that you cling to the idea of reconciliation. This will put you in a vicious cycle of not linking anyone and clinging to the idea of a relationship with him even more. You need to find peace inside yourself, and move on with a fully open heart. Until your heart is closed, your mind is angry, you won't meet anyone worthy. While if you did forgive him and found peace inside yourself, you will definitely meet people whom you will feel attracted to.

This is definitely what I needed to hear! To be honest, I think for whatever reason, I'm still looking for external (his) validation of my worth rather than my own. This is something I have been trying to work on for a while now, and I think unfortunately dating someone with this situation made that worse. This also seems to tie into how I've "compared" myself to the new girl. For some reason, I feel it would be easier for me to accept if she was very attractive or had a lot going for her, however, she really isn't and doesn't and I find that very strange and somehow makes me feel worse about the situation. Perhaps she is more valuable to him because she does not pressure or push him, and I feel self conscious about that. I'm not sure.

Part of it too is that I want a "second chance" at the relationship to see how it would unfold when a) his ex wife is officially out of the picture and b) I decreased my insecure/needy behaviour and continued to cultivate my own life outside of the relationship. I honestly don't think he thinks he used me, rather we weren't compatible. However, I can't seem to shake the feeling that rather than an issue of compatibility, timing was more the culprit. I suppose it's hard to say though.

We all do this to some extent because we are social animals and don't exist in a void. We perceive ourselves through the eyes of others to a large extent.

If I were you, I'd try and understand why he picked her, and what she's got that you don't have. What is it? With your physical and intellectual endowment and achievements, I understand, having those skills under your belt will make you a power house!!

Listen, the only way you'd have him see a different you, and possible change his opinion of you if you two hang out on a regular basis. You need to have access to his body and mind, so to say. That'd be only a friends route. And didn't you try that in the beginning? It is very hard when you still love someone to be friends with them. You'd have to be very strong and very capable to essentially trick him into believing you and falling for you again. I would't do that, it's too much work. Much easier to get over this dependency once and for all, learn the lessons and start dating in earnest. Remember it's all chemical, and keeping no contact will lessen the grip of the chemicals on you. You need about a year to get him out of your system.

We all do this to some extent because we are social animals and don't exist in a void. We perceive ourselves through the eyes of others to a large extent.

 

If I were you, I'd try and understand why he picked her, and what she's got that you don't have. What is it? With your physical and intellectual endowment and achievements, I understand, having those skills under your belt will make you a power house!!

 

Listen, the only way you'd have him see a different you, and possible change his opinion of you if you two hang out on a regular basis. You need to have access to his body and mind, so to say. That'd be only a friends route. And didn't you try that in the beginning? It is very hard when you still love someone to be friends with them. You'd have to be very strong and very capable to essentially trick him into believing you and falling for you again. I would't do that, it's too much work. Much easier to get over this dependency once and for all, learn the lessons and start dating in earnest. Remember it's all chemical, and keeping no contact will lessen the grip of the chemicals on you. You need about a year to get him out of your system.

I think you are absolutely right. There's a small part of me that wants to take that on as a challenge, but I feel deep down that it would be unhealthy and give him all the power in the relationship and boost his ego more than anything feeling like two women were after his attention.

He called me today, I shouldn't have answered, but he basically called to say he would like to hang out, but he didn't think it was fair to this new girl. Which is interesting since he had no issues seeing his ex when he was with me. And why share that with me at all? Anyway, that's beside the point. It seems he gets something from making me feel jealous, and I'm frustrated that I don't seem to have the courage to call him on it. At the end of the phone call he said "I'll talk to you later" to which I reminded him he would not, since he had just shared that it would upset this new girl to which he said "well just let me do the initiating for the next little bit, we're still going to talk". I left it at that but inside I was thinking "yeah right!" It really showed me how immature/irrational he is.

I know this would not help, but I feel frustrated and silenced in that I never addressed with him how unfair I believe he treated me both while we were together, and while we were not. I suppose he wouldn't care anyway, but there's a frustration in that he has not been held accountable for the destruction he's caused in my life in order to "heal" his.

I think you are absolutely right. There's a small part of me that wants to take that on as a challenge, but I feel deep down that it would be unhealthy and give him all the power in the relationship and boost his ego more than anything feeling like two women were after his attention.

 

He called me today, I shouldn't have answered, but he basically called to say he would like to hang out, but he didn't think it was fair to this new girl. Which is interesting since he had no issues seeing his ex when he was with me. And why share that with me at all? Anyway, that's beside the point. It seems he gets something from making me feel jealous, and I'm frustrated that I don't seem to have the courage to call him on it. At the end of the phone call he said "I'll talk to you later" to which I reminded him he would not, since he had just shared that it would upset this new girl to which he said "well just let me do the initiating for the next little bit, we're still going to talk". I left it at that but inside I was thinking "yeah right!" It really showed me how immature/irrational he is.

 

I know this would not help, but I feel frustrated and silenced in that I never addressed with him how unfair I believe he treated me both while we were together, and while we were not. I suppose he wouldn't care anyway, but there's a frustration in that he has not been held accountable for the destruction he's caused in my life in order to "heal" his.

I am sure it hurts too still. I think it's better not to take his calls until you're absolutely certain what you're going to do next.

But here are two lines from your message:

I'm frustrated that I don't seem to have the courage to call him on it.

there's a frustration in that he has not been held accountable for the destruction he's caused in my life in order to "heal" his.

You too see a contradiction there? To me it looks like someone doesn't have strong boundaries in the first place, and then accuses the other that they've wrecked havoc to their life. Time to pull on the big girl pants, like some people here like to say.

You know I had the craziest idea, do you want to reach out to his ex wife and chat to her? If she's over it, she'll tell you her story, which you don't know because he told you his story to which you were partial. I think lots of valuable insights maybe be gleaned from this conversation, if you make her open up and talk.

You'd have a more objective picture of the guy. Something you badly need to get yourself on the healing track, and to want the best for yourself.

I am sure it hurts too still. I think it's better not to take his calls until you're absolutely certain what you're going to do next.

 

But here are two lines from your message:

 

I'm frustrated that I don't seem to have the courage to call him on it.

there's a frustration in that he has not been held accountable for the destruction he's caused in my life in order to "heal" his.

 

You too see a contradiction there? To me it looks like someone doesn't have strong boundaries in the first place, and then accuses the other that they've wrecked havoc to their life. Time to pull on the big girl pants, like some people here like to say.

 

You are so right, Broomwood! That is definitely a specific issue of mine. I should have seen this a mile away (well, I think I did, but I chose to continue with the relationship anyway) and walked away. I wonder if he would have just replaced me with someone else at the time if I had. In fact, I'm quite sure that he would have. Even now, I don't think he's been fully single since his separation for any length of time.

 

You know I had the craziest idea, do you want to reach out to his ex wife and chat to her? If she's over it, she'll tell you her story, which you don't know because he told you his story to which you were partial. I think lots of valuable insights maybe be gleaned from this conversation, if you make her open up and talk.

You'd have a more objective picture of the guy. Something you badly need to get yourself on the healing track, and to want the best for yourself.

I totally would, except somehow they are on great terms now that she is halfway accross the world. In fact, the last time I was at his place, she FaceTimed him and they had a good long conversation where they proceeded to flirt with each other while I was in the other room. Again, I could have just left, but at that point I knew the relationship between him and I was over and I didn't want him to think that something like that still bothered me.

I'm really trying to put this all into perspective and not let the issue with the new girl bother me and objectively look at the situation and know that he will likely revert to old patters with her like he did with me, but it seems that with her he is so much more respectful of her feelings (i.e., informing me that we cannot be friends since it upsets her when it was his idea in the first place). One thing that has actually helped is that I tell myself that if he has changed and is treating her better, rather than feel sorry for myself and my experience, I can feel at peace that not all jerks stay that way and some do learn and change! I don't know if this is the case, but it helps me feel less resentful and angry about how I feel he mistreated me.

 

P.S. I contacted him yesterday after he called me to let him know that I had forgotten a pair of boots at his (I figure NC was broken anyway), and he said he would look for them, but not before informing me that the new girl was coming over soon, which I believe is unnecessary. In the span of our conversations yesterday, he informed me that he spent most of last week, the whole weekend, and yesterday with this new person. I suppose he's trying to make me feel jealous (it doesn't) and replaced (this I do feel as a couple weeks ago we spent most of OUR time together).

You need to delete and block him so you can move forward.

He called me today, I shouldn't have answered, but he basically called to say he would like to hang out, but he didn't think it was fair to this new girl.

In this short time I've decided I would never actually want to reconcile with him. I can see clearly now that the person I thought I cared for did not exist, instead it was a figment of my projections and fantasies. A man with character I thought he had simply could not so easily replace a significant other, especially so quickly.

I see now he is using this new person the same way he used me. He cannot bare to be alone, not even for a night at a time. We are walking, breathing, coping/defence mechanisms which is quite sad really. I don't think it matters what we look like, so long as we cater to his fragile ego. Which I did and then some. I think the real tragedy here is how long I betrayed myself and my boundaries to keep him on that pedestal.

Now that I have kicked him off and see his true colours, I don't care what happens to him at all. I'm focused on me, my healing, and keeping an open heart for the right person. Thank you to everyone that helped me through this process!

Hey Laelithia,

how are you getting on? I liked your last message, and am really curious to hear your news. It looks like you've been spending time well to make sense of what has happened to you.

I have to completely advise against contacting his ex. Their former relationship isn't your business and it's inappropriate, especially given the very short time you knew this guy.

In any event, it sounds like you're seeing the light, OP. He was a sketchy guy from the beginning and you are going to be far better off staying away from him for good.

Hey Laelithia,

 

how are you getting on? I liked your last message, and am really curious to hear your news. It looks like you've been spending time well to make sense of what has happened to you.

 

Hey Broomwood! I wish I could say I've been doing a lot better (actually I was!), however, I've sort of gotten myself into a similar mess with someone new, mind you, he was a lot more deceiving I feel than my last ex (I've posted about it here, if you want to take a look). It's interesting you ask, since after over a month of NC, I got a message from the ex I started this thread on today, he basically said he had added me on social media by accident, and that although he wished me well, he did not want sort of friendship after all. I'm quite over this relationship romantically, so it didn't really affect me. I simply agreed and wished him well also. I suppose that's progress!

Hey Broomwood! I wish I could say I've been doing a lot better (actually I was!), however, I've sort of gotten myself into a similar mess with someone new, mind you, he was a lot more deceiving I feel than my last ex (I've posted about it here, if you want to take a look). It's interesting you ask, since after over a month of NC, I got a message from the ex I started this thread on today, he basically said he had added me on social media by accident, and that although he wished me well, he did not want sort of friendship after all. I'm quite over this relationship romantically, so it didn't really affect me. I simply agreed and wished him well also. I suppose that's progress!

I think you should start looking at the pattern here.

I think you should start looking at the pattern here.

Hi Ms Darcy, I know you have read some of my threads before. What do you see as negative patterns I am repeating?

Hi Ms Darcy, I know you have read some of my threads before. What do you see as negative patterns I am repeating?

I haven't read your previous posts but I would say the pattern of rumination on someone who doesn't value you as much as you hoped (and is clearly moving in a different direction) is the first pattern you need to address.

You are not wrong in how you feel. You are simply doing something that we all have done when we've been wounded mentally and emotionally by someone that we gave too much space in our hearts and minds that either had no intention of returning equally or simply couldn't.

Time and distance from someone who sends us these signals (which are horrifically painful and we sometime choose to ignore or rationalize other conclusions about) is the only way we can begin to heal OURSELVES. These two factors, along with positive self-development activities (reading about relationships, working out, therapy) are really the only ways that we can reach that light at the end of the tunnel.

Many of us are looking for instant gratification to resolve these painful internal emotional conflicts. The truth is that there is no button to push, no "quick fixes" (in terms of actions) to "make this hell go away". It takes strength, work, self-reflection and evaluation over a period of time. When you can't make progress in these areas, you should ask for help from a professional therapist.

Get back into NC, as painful as it may be. Take that first step toward being someone stronger today than you were yesterday and don't let anyone take your power over your own life away, especially those who choose to abandon you for other people or things.

Hello again everyone,

I'm rather ashamed to be commenting on this thread after so much time has passed, and yet still feeling stuck in this healing process. I don't know if there is anything that could be said that hasn't already, but I suppose anything would help. I am in a new relationship now, my partner is much more attentive and understanding of my needs, however, it was a bumpy road to get there as it was his first serious relationship and there was a lot I felt I had to teach him about empathy and communication in relationships. Also, the relationship is long distance so that makes things difficult.

Anyway, I feel awful that this past relationship still plagues me while I'm with someone else. In fact, this new (almost one year now) relationship seems to have somehow reopened some of these wounds from the past that I thought had been healed. For what reason, I am not too sure. One thought that seems to plague me more than others, is regret over this one night I posted about earlier:

 

One night in September, after a lovely dinner date out where he fully committed (for the first time), I ended up having far too much to drink and feeling abandoned by him (he seemed more interested in pleasing my friends than me when I requested to go home), I exploded in an angry tirade. I don't remember much of what I said, but what I do was not kind. The next day, after I profusely apologized for my behaviour, he said he was unsure if he could continue to date me and be vulnerable as I had hurt him so much that night.

 

I tried for months after that night to redeem myself, to show him that he could trust me again, but in November he said he felt his feelings change for me that night. We continued to date until before Christmas, after which he decided that he wanted to be single and that he didn't think I was The One, even though he had said the opposite so many times before.

He is still seeing the same woman he started dating right after me, and I have found it so painful to see him impliment boundaries with me (a now ex) when he never did that for me while we were together (kept in frequent contact with his ex wife) despite knowing how badly it affected me. I honestly don't know why this is plaguing me so much now, after so much time has passed. I can't seem to get over the pain, the feeling of betrayal, and the abandonment. I have nightly dreams where he resurfaces, and it seems like my unconscious mind cannot let go of this, of the regret I feel for that night. Of wondering what could have been if I didn't act that way, where I could be now in my life if I hadn't. Is there any way I can finally put this all to rest and stop the constant what if's?