Crisis of confidence after job offer

Not sure how to make this a short post, but I'll try.

Okay so basically my wife and I moved country and city a year and a half ago. She got a visa to teach here and so that's how we got here so quickly. I work in I.T and was very successful for the most part as a permie and a contractor. My first job here, for the first 6 months, was brilliant - and we got to travel. Our experience overall as a married couple was galvanised - we were so happy.

So then I got handed a new project, and everything kind of spiraled out of control. Suffice to say it has been horrendous. In the past at work I have been susceptible to bullying by certain personality types, and my management style is to support people and be constructive no matter what. I found myself in the most finger-pointing environment I have been known - really off the scale. My manager used to like shouting at people during meetings and put people on the spot to explain why things were happening - in front of all their peers - resulting in people going silent as they basically started panicking. I tried to remember where I had seen this behaviour before, and the only place I remember is at school when a teacher reprimands a pupil in front of everyone.

Somehow I became a repeated target, and over a period of around 3 months, this - with the long hours - destroyed a part of me. This has all been so horrendous I feel like I have pain inside me that hasn't been dealt with.

What makes things worse, before the project started my wife and I had decided the balance of our marriage would be better if both of us were not working full time, so she quit and was going to take some part time work after a 3 month break. So what happens? She quits, I get mentally killed for 3 months, and the combined stress of all of it starts to kill our marriage. It's really fallen to pieces a bit if I'm honest. Desperately bad.

Anyway, I left my job with a pay-off (after 5 months in this horrendous project) as they felt my skills were better suited elsewhere. Sad to go, but relieved in a way. Thing is, my resume is pretty good - and ahead of schedule (literally in a week) I've interviewed for a new job working for the same type of business but bigger, in a higher position. And during these interviews they have really clicked with me, telling me I'm exactly what they need. So it's more senior, people talking to me like they really respect my knowledge, and an offer is on the table right now. I was supposed to be meeting their MD before the offer, but hes not even met me and is offering it anyway. I said it's a conditional YES of course, although want to meet just to ensure there is good chemistry - and they totally get that. This is all through an agent by the the way and so I'm on the verge of seeing the MD and signing a contract.

I'm having a confidence crisis. When I look inside I don't have the self belief that I can actually do this job. Fear is ruling over me, and I'm not into fear screwing with my life. So I'm speaking to friends and family to find some way to be confident about a job I know I can do, but I'm so scared of failing. Sounds pitiful, but it's real.

Things with my wife are not great and she's struggling herself so support is having to come from elsewhere. I feel alone, guess that's why I'm here.

Welcome to the forum, and I hope you get all the support on here you need!

My manager used to like shouting at people during meetings and put people on the spot to explain why things were happening - in front of all their peers - resulting in people going silent as they basically started panicking. I tried to remember where I had seen this behaviour before, and the only place I remember is at school when a teacher reprimands a pupil in front of everyone.

You've hit the nail on the head with this ^^^, and the problem you're facing at the moment is that in an emotional sense, you're still that frightened kid who's being pushed around by a 'teacher' acting more like a playground bully than an intelligent professional. However, you ARE an intelligent professional and, not unreasonably, expect others to behave likewise.

I've been in a couple of organisations where the management was so appalling that I walked away before completing my probationary period (these places forget that the 'one week's notice' cuts both ways!), but these were part-time positions while my 'real' profession is as a creative freelancer - and it was water off a duck's back. However, I have seen how this kind of jackbooted management can totally undermine staff morale, not just in their role in that company, but for a long time afterwards. These people cause absolute chaos.

Let yourself know that you were not the one behaving unprofessionally in your situation; it was the management. Your value system - being supportive and constructive - is a massive selling point in any setting other than a totally dysfunctional one, and the way these assclowns behaved is a reflection of who THEY are, not who you are. At the moment, your wife isn't in a place to support you emotionally, and it's great that you've reached out here.

You are clearly highly intelligent and a person of great integrity and professionalism. Let yourself know that. At the moment, it sounds as though fears and self-doubt from childhood are being triggered, but let yourself know that they belong in the past and have no bearing on the present. If necessary, see if you can get a brief spell of therapy to put all this rubbish where it belongs and help you be less vulnerable to people like this in the future.

Good luck!

Let yourself know that you were not the one behaving unprofessionally in your situation; it was the management. Your value system - being supportive and constructive - is a massive selling point in any setting other than a totally dysfunctional one, and the way these assclowns behaved is a reflection of who THEY are, not who you are. At the moment, your wife isn't in a place to support you emotionally, and it's great that you've reached out here.

 

You are clearly highly intelligent and a person of great integrity and professionalism. Let yourself know that. At the moment, it sounds as though fears and self-doubt from childhood are being triggered, but let yourself know that they belong in the past and have no bearing on the present. If necessary, see if you can get a brief spell of therapy to put all this rubbish where it belongs and help you be less vulnerable to people like this in the future.

Hey thank you so much for the kind words. I am so glad I'm out of that place, and want to put it all behind me. Assclowns - love it!!!

I will see if therapy is necessary - trying out my support network right now, but it's a bit thin.

Fair play to you - getting out when you see a storm brewing or some assclown at the wheel. In this instance I'd actually wish I'd left after 6 months, and could have done so but stuck around because I was too brave or stupid for my own good. You live and learn...

My vulnerability is an interesting thing. With my marriage hitting problems and work being utterly terrible, all emotional fortitude was worn away eventually. Nothing left. By Christmas I was a complete zombie - I'm not sure I felt anything. It's a screwed up thing - 12 hour days, getting slammed every week, made to feel like you're terrible at what you do. The only upside was that quite a few members of my team had a completely opposite view and since leaving I've had lots of lovely messages of support and offers of references.

As for the childhood stuff, well there's a lot of that flying around which most of the time doesn't cause a problem. But when de-constructed into the bare-bones, then everything shows up. I don't think I socially integrated well enough to form a human shield against the assclown. I can learn from that, but hopefully there won't be a 10/10 assclown there.

The only upside was that quite a few members of my team had a completely opposite view and since leaving I've had lots of lovely messages of support and offers of references.

This tells you everything you need to know...! These messages are from people with first-hand experience of your ability, who have no hidden agendas or axes to grind.

The other things you can take from this experience is how to spot a dud manager at an early stage, and take avoiding action if necessary. Sometimes it feels as though you're the only one in an organisation experiencing all the ****, but you can be certain that you aren't, in reality. You shouldn't need to form a human shield around anyone, at least not if they're professional.

I'm aware of how damaging this kind of thing can be, though. My partner has recently become an employee again, after being self-employed for 15 years. His last salaried employment before that was a total nightmare, and I could see elements of the trauma resurfacing in his anxieties around the new job, and his confidence in his own abilities. So let yourself know that your new company is not the old, your new line manager is not the assclown who made your life a misery at the old place, and that this is an opportunity to spread your wings and fly!

Not sure how to make this a short post, but I'll try.

 

Okay so basically my wife and I moved country and city a year and a half ago. She got a visa to teach here and so that's how we got here so quickly. I work in I.T and was very successful for the most part as a permie and a contractor. My first job here, for the first 6 months, was brilliant - and we got to travel. Our experience overall as a married couple was galvanised - we were so happy.

 

Hi! Don't mind me breaking this down. It's just easier to read and respond. That's so cool you work in IT! I'm working on switching from accounting field to IT field.

 

So then I got handed a new project, and everything kind of spiraled out of control. Suffice to say it has been horrendous. In the past at work I have been susceptible to bullying by certain personality types, and my management style is to support people and be constructive no matter what. I found myself in the most finger-pointing environment I have been known - really off the scale. My manager used to like shouting at people during meetings and put people on the spot to explain why things were happening - in front of all their peers - resulting in people going silent as they basically started panicking. I tried to remember where I had seen this behaviour before, and the only place I remember is at school when a teacher reprimands a pupil in front of everyone.

 

Somehow I became a repeated target, and over a period of around 3 months, this - with the long hours - destroyed a part of me. This has all been so horrendous I feel like I have pain inside me that hasn't been dealt with.

Dude, you need to have a major backbone.

Also, if I ever had to deal with a manager like that, I would backup everything. So if he ever questions my decision or skill or whatever, I can slam back with proof. That's what I learned from my job. Oh boy, did the managers realize that the quiet old me is not stupid after all.

 

What makes things worse, before the project started my wife and I had decided the balance of our marriage would be better if both of us were not working full time, so she quit and was going to take some part time work after a 3 month break. So what happens? She quits, I get mentally killed for 3 months, and the combined stress of all of it starts to kill our marriage. It's really fallen to pieces a bit if I'm honest. Desperately bad.

Are you doing anything with stress? Do you do anything fun?

Might need to find other ways to relax.

Did you communicate with your wife that you are stress?

 

Anyway, I left my job with a pay-off (after 5 months in this horrendous project) as they felt my skills were better suited elsewhere. Sad to go, but relieved in a way. Thing is, my resume is pretty good - and ahead of schedule (literally in a week) I've interviewed for a new job working for the same type of business but bigger, in a higher position. And during these interviews they have really clicked with me, telling me I'm exactly what they need. So it's more senior, people talking to me like they really respect my knowledge, and an offer is on the table right now. I was supposed to be meeting their MD before the offer, but hes not even met me and is offering it anyway. I said it's a conditional YES of course, although want to meet just to ensure there is good chemistry - and they totally get that. This is all through an agent by the the way and so I'm on the verge of seeing the MD and signing a contract.

 

I'm having a confidence crisis. When I look inside I don't have the self belief that I can actually do this job. Fear is ruling over me, and I'm not into fear screwing with my life. So I'm speaking to friends and family to find some way to be confident about a job I know I can do, but I'm so scared of failing. Sounds pitiful, but it's real.

 

Things with my wife are not great and she's struggling herself so support is having to come from elsewhere. I feel alone, guess that's why I'm here.

Please note this is how I gained my confidence back:

- I work out after work especially lifting weights. It's a stress reliever and gets you in shape.

- I know my worth. Write a list what you are proud of yourself. Hell yeah, just one page would do. Every time you doubt your self, open it from your wallet or phone or whatever.

- Hug your wifey. If she says what is this hug all about, just say you feel confident that way. When you have a habit that helps you feel confident, repeat it.

- RELAX. Every obstacle you face is going to make you stronger and a better person. Imagine you're going into battle against a dragon, yea sure the dragon damages your armour, but you pick up your sword and shield and fight again.

- Remember that life is like a battlefield and a playground as well. It's what you make of it.

- Forget about your past.

- Yea sure you are scared because you never been there before, but imagine what you need to do to get the outcome you want. BAM, it will make you forget your fear just for a bit.

- Tell yourself, "You got this, bro. No worries!" Then high-five yourself.

LOL Good luck.

Congrats on the new job! I'm late to your thread, so when is (or was) your start date, and how are you doing with managing your anxiety?

Self talk is crucial. The things you tell yourself with that inner voice you run in your head will drive your coping skills, so adopt simple mantras, like "I can do this."

Intellectually, you know that your last abusive environment was an exception, not the rule. Any good management team would never have allowed the kind of intimidation tactics (leftover from the 80's) that your horrible boss employed. So the likelihood of you facing that kind of firing squad again is pretty slim.

So don't allow your own mind to take up where your last boss left off by creating a pseudo judge and jury in your head. Don't pressure yourself with instant performance--allow your next team to teach you THEIR environment and ways of relating to one another on the job.

Anxiety blocks absorption. So breathe and demonstrate calm. No single project is a career-breaker, we've all had our duds. You can take the bad stuff and consider it as your "don't" model. For instance, you've learned WHY you'll never mistreat people the way your old boss did.

The failures at your last project were not yours to own alone. You had lousy management driving the thing into the ground, as evidenced by your happy and successful performance prior to that exposure. So you get to decide how deep you'll allow that damage to run: it was either a temporary fluke and a learning experience, or you can parlay it into a state that uses your own intelligence against yourself to drill a deeper hole than necessary.

I hope you'll use this thread to update your progress and journal your experiences. Maybe we can help with some valuable feedback along the way.

Head high, and focus on your past successes.

Hey everyone - and thanks for the replies. It's been a huge roller coaster since my last post.

Well, the day before I was due to meet the MD to have a chat and accept this offer - I had a final interview for what is literally my dream job. I guess the one I posted about posed it's own challenges, not least of which were for me as a person and how reflect on myself and the world.

This other job took 3 interviews, and the last one was with the MD. He gave me an absolute grilling, and asked very difficult and direct questions which were designed to make me uncomfortable. I rolled with these and to cut a long story short, left the interview thinking I'd totally blown it. I felt dejected, broken. That was the job I REALLY wanted.

After getting home and lying down for a little while I kind of fell apart a bit. I've been going to interviews after the old job (with shouting boss) for the last few weeks. All the while my wife is totally dependent on me getting a job because of visa issues. Anyway, the pressure has been unbelievable. I'm on the edge of breaking up but so far refuse. Anyway, an hour later I get a call saying I got the job! That evening was crazy. One moment feeling washed up, the next as if I am making it.

The agent calls me, tells me what their plans are for me - incredible - and the next morning I get the email offer passed on from HR. It's amazing. They ask for a few simple details around start date etc, and I'm told by the agent it will be 3 days until the contract is ready to sign.

So on Tuesday morning I reply to the email asking for the admin bits - that gets sent. The agent says "watch your inbox for the contract.".

Wednesday passes, then it's Thursday afternoon. All the while my wife is asking me where the contract is, what's happening - are things okay. In those moments I'm feeling utterly desperate. I'm doing all I can, I figure, and know everything is depending on me. So on Thursday afternoon the agent calls me and says one of the directors wants to chat with me. So in that call I find out he's an internal director with an assignment coming up and is scoping me out for early involvement. Fine, I think. And the conversation goes well. After I call the agent and tell him about it, and he says he will try to get feedback. But at this point we're both expecting the contract to have come through already.

Friday passes. It gets to 4pm, so I call the agent and leave a voicemail. No response.

It's Monday now, and I have no idea what is going on. I'm in a library trying to do some work study but get these pangs of absolute panic and anxiety.

On the basis of accepting this offer, I declined the other job I was posting about. I also declined a final stage interview which was on Thursday evening. But I've actually called them back up (as soon as I got twitchy on the dream job and surprise director interview) and am seeing them at 5pm.

This probably all sounds confusing. Basically, offer 1 came in and that's what I posted about. The evening before my final MD interview I got offered and accepted my dream job - but the contract has not materialised and the agent has gone quiet on me. I've resumed a final interview with anther job (which I really liked the sound of actually), and that's later today.

Now I am completely baffled by what's happened. Do I blame myself for accepting an offer for an amazing job which I was 100% confident in doing? I can't do that surely? But here I am thinking f**k where is the contract?! Has something gone wrong?? It's absolute hell. All the while my wife is even more desperate and wants me to sign a contract ASAP - but I'm on the verge here holding it together. At any moment now I could get a call from them saying the contract is ready, OR maybe there's an unexpected problem. I have no idea.

So at 5pm I'm going to try and nail it so I get an offer because otherwise I'll have turned down a concrete offer for nothing, and I find it hard to contemplate that situation right now. I'm doing everything I can. Feel so desperate sometimes, half talking to myself trying to gee myself up and tell myself everythings going to be okay. It's works sometimes, and this morning up until an hour ago I was on it, studying, and then lose it in a spiral for a while.

The_Seeker - thanks for your kind words, and you've got a good point when you say I need a backbone. I am reflecting on my last job and I'm seemingly just too soft for the job I was trying to do. My social network here is pretty useless, and I don't have people around me that feed into a sense of well being. And here it's far more cut-throat for those who let their guard down. I get what you're saying about showing some teeth and evidence for the boss, and I guess if I had the energy I would have done that but I was so burnt out from long hours and other factors (man that place was living hell for me in the end).

Hey I like running and had a good run yesterday which really helped my mood. I think I'm gonna hit the gym in the morning after reading your post.

Catfeeder - my self talk is REALLY unhealthy I have to admit. My marriage is in bits at the moment too which doesn't help. I'm working on this though, but have always suffered some self-esteem problems when work hits problems. For me I have much of my self-worth dependent on being successful in my career - so it's hard to cope in this situation. But yes, I've got a prime example for the DONT model. And I will be better at spotting a toxic environment.

The only good news I've got guys right now is that another of my team who I was managing at the last place wrote me an awesome reference.

I just want some good news to pass on to my wife. It's getting unbearable not being able to give her some good news.

Sorry guys this was really meandering. This is where I'm at.

This is a difficult situation, isn't it? Unfortunately it's not unusual for contracts to take a while to arrive because it's often a different department dealing with the admin, to the one which did the actual appointing. If you haven't heard by now, get back to the company and tell them that it's your ideal job, but the contract hasn't come through yet - but you have firm offers from other companies too, and this is placing you in a dilemma.

If they still don't come up with the goods, go to your interview and accept the job if offered. Of course, there's no guarantee the second company would be any quicker with delivering the paperwork either... but make it clear that you need a firm offer in writing as soon as possible.

For yourself - the first company to send you the paperwork you need gets your services, and carry on with your interviews until such time as you've signed on the dotted line for one of them. Sometimes these opportunities do fall at the last hurdle, and you need to protect yourself.

Fingers crossed for you. I'd tell wife that she needs to stop riding your ass. It's not helpful to your own head to tolerate an unnecessary pressure cooker. I'd advise her to pipe the hell down, or better yet, go get a full time job of her own.

All the best for you OP. I have been in similar situations to you with 2 consecutive jobs, and lime you, I found it crushing, not to mention the financial stresses. Finally, I was offered a job which did not have the status or perks of the previous 2 jobs, but I can honestly say, fingers crossed, that I am currently the happiest I have ever been in a job. I don't have anywhere near the same stress, I get to work with people who are so glad to see me, I don't have a narcissist watching over me, and I drive about lovely countryside. Don't know if you have moved to a place in the country or moved countries. I did a tree-change from city to country, and I can say that at least with one of those jobs which was in a much smaller regional centre than I'm used to, that there was a lot of nepotism, and I've since met others who experienced issues through being considered "an outsider". Still, I wouldn't go back to the city. It's taken a while for things to work out. Like you, Im so relieved I am no longer in those workplaces.

btw! Don't know if this will help you feel better, but with the first job, I took official actions to address serious bullying from my immediate manager. The eventual finding was that I had a legitimate cause for grievance, and my manager just managed to get off the hook by stating none of it was intentional, and that she was u der a lot of stress herself. I narively embraced the offer of mediation, and thought things were finally going to work out. Once the mediation was over, she came after me with a vengeance. What a waste of ti rand effort all that official complaint turned out to be. I would have been better off in every way to have just moved on. Still, I've learnt from it.

This is a difficult situation, isn't it? Unfortunately it's not unusual for contracts to take a while to arrive because it's often a different department dealing with the admin, to the one which did the actual appointing. If you haven't heard by now, get back to the company and tell them that it's your ideal job, but the contract hasn't come through yet - but you have firm offers from other companies too, and this is placing you in a dilemma.

 

If they still don't come up with the goods, go to your interview and accept the job if offered. Of course, there's no guarantee the second company would be any quicker with delivering the paperwork either... but make it clear that you need a firm offer in writing as soon as possible.

 

For yourself - the first company to send you the paperwork you need gets your services, and carry on with your interviews until such time as you've signed on the dotted line for one of them. Sometimes these opportunities do fall at the last hurdle, and you need to protect yourself.

Hey thanks, with the general atmosphere of panic that envelops my life it's hard to just realise that admin is admin, and it takes ages sometimes.

A friend of mine recommended the same thing as you - that you need to protect yourself in this kind of situation rather than this idea of just having one accepted offer on the go at the same time, which of course ignores the fact that you need to get an ACTUAL CONTRACT before you can really say the offer is on the table.

Fingers crossed for you. I'd tell wife that she needs to stop riding your ass. It's not helpful to your own head to tolerate an unnecessary pressure cooker. I'd advise her to pipe the hell down, or better yet, go get a full time job of her own.

I have said to her that the pressure is at such a high level its unbearable. Agreed - not helpful to my head at all. She can't get a full time job because there's not a lot about right now that would give her a visa outright, and so the alternative is other jobs via a dependent visa which depends on .... me!

I try to concentrate on leaving a memory of having handled all this in the most dignified and determined way possible. Breaking out into arguments and pressing the Marriage Implosion button is totally nuts but sometimes I feel like I'm the only one saying that button is off limits - let's just get stuff done right now.

btw! Don't know if this will help you feel better, but with the first job, I took official actions to address serious bullying from my immediate manager. The eventual finding was that I had a legitimate cause for grievance, and my manager just managed to get off the hook by stating none of it was intentional, and that she was u der a lot of stress herself. I narively embraced the offer of mediation, and thought things were finally going to work out. Once the mediation was over, she came after me with a vengeance. What a waste of ti rand effort all that official complaint turned out to be. I would have been better off in every way to have just moved on. Still, I've learnt from it.

Hey Silverbirch - sorry to hear of that crap you went through. You were so brave to fight it out through official channels. Sadly some people are vengeful characters. My boss has a reputation as someone not to be messed with, and said themselves (overheard in the office) that when she doesn't like someone, she just doesn't like them. This is the MD speaking here.

Overheard another conversation where one of her closest friends in the office was speaking to a guy who just joined. He said to him "My advice is don't f**k with her.".

I guess this all depends on how you see the role of MD. Some people like to be feared and know that compliance will always happen due to the persona they've created in the office. Some take a different approach. My personality is completely at odds with the god-fearing model. The trick is dealing with this situation.

Like you I wish I had moved on 6 months ago, and I had a really good chance to do that - but decided to stay on because I wanted to take on the new project and see if I could do it - really rise to the challenge. It's almost destroyed me and my marriage because no matter how desperately hard I tried I could not save the situation.

I intend to learn from this experience BIG TIME. This is the second bully-boss that has affected me in my career at a time when I was personally vulnerable. Can't allow it to happen a third time.

Hey so here's the latest update.

Spent all day in the library yesterday to get away from the negativity of being at home. I was so anxious I didn't get a lot of studying done, and went to my interview at the end of the day.

To cut a long story short, I totally nailed it. Spoke to a partner and the CEO and an offer is on the way! However I think it will be a few days before it comes through. So lets call this offer No. 2.

Offer number 1 - the contract I'm waiting for - I have an update. They emailed lastnight saying they needed to confirm what salary I told the agent. Before responding I checked with the agent this morning, and apparenty (sigh) the agents told the company a slightly inflated salary and say that's their fault. What that has meant is that my offer salary passes some threshold which needs extra approval, and in the worst case the offer might be reduced to be under the threshold. So I emailed back the company and told them I told the agent my correct salary, and now I'm in the waiting game again.

BUT - it's being processed, and is still ALIVE. So two offers are still alive.

I would feel some sense of satisfaction but this doesn't help my wife. She has a deadline for having visa forms submitted in a couple of days so I'm getting additional pressure. I've been asked to try and get some kind of letter as a substitute for the formal offer. Thing is, the offer isn't there yet. Asking for an extra letter sounds a bit desperate and would pollute a process which I just want to complete. I don't want to place any additional risk on it. I've given these interviews everything. Can't see it be for nothing.

If your formal offer doesn't arrive in time for the visa application deadline, is there an appeal process which can take place in view of changed circumstances, i.e. you now have a confirmed offer? Even if there isn't, what happens?

As the same department which deals with the contract would also presumably be dealing with the confirmatory letter, I wouldn't hold your breath on that one!

Not sure why I'm posting this but basically I'm still in limbo.

nutbrownhare - It's not out of the question that we might be able to somehow expedite the process if the offer comes through too late. The last day for submission is this Friday, but in an attempt to get some help my wife took the forms in today and after a confusing conversation with them (language barrier) they took the forms.

So actually no idea if them taking the forms is going to help because the key supplement is missing - my contract. Jesus I have no idea what the permutations are with that one. No idea at all. Really topped out here.

Dinner with my wife lasted 5 minutes until she blew up at me saying the contract HAS to be there tomorrow. I wondered to myself, is that a demand to me - to the agent - to the employer? How, what, why?! She is at the end of her tether. Thing is it's nobody elses fault that we're in this situation. No idea why my wife sat on the visa application for soooo long, but what good will it do for me to start loading up and firing this at her? No good whatsoever. A cornerstone of my approach this last month (of hell) has been to only do and say something that is constructive, and god damn it if you don't have anything positive or constructive to say then what's the point? And again last night I said look at a time of crisis we turn on each other, then we're truly f**ked.

So it's 2:30pm now and there's no word. It's a weird limbo to be in. Last night I dreaded going back home because I don't have the ability to give any assurance to my wife and know there are no other targets around but me. So I'm going home every day to a toxic atmosphere, and my wife needs support too. Retaining the plot any sense of self-worth and well-being has been nigh on impossible lately. Everything I've been doing for the past month has been to get interviews, pass them, get jobs. Jesus, I have amassed 3 offers now so WHAT MORE CAN I DO!?!?! I genuinely feel like screaming this right now.

Offer 1 - waiting for the contract.

Offer 2 - had the MD interview on Monday and he said HR would be in touch, great to talk to you.

Offer 3 - the first one, which I declined cos there was a better offer (Offer 1) and tbh that job was NOT something I really wanted to do or had total confidence in me doing. That triggered this post in the first place.

Every day I think "what will happen today? Is today the day?". Every time I think I know it is the day I remind myself that I know f**k all and every time someone has given me a timescale it's been inaccurate. I pass that timescale on to my wife, she blows up when it doesn't happen - I'm in the middle. I'm going out of my mind really. No amount of "if onlys" is going to do anything about this. Pointless.

I'm going to quote catfeeder here:

Fingers crossed for you. I'd tell wife that she needs to stop riding your ass. It's not helpful to your own head to tolerate an unnecessary pressure cooker. I'd advise her to pipe the hell down, or better yet, go get a full time job of her own.

Rather than wondering about her and her motivations and, basically, being over-tolerant... take a look at how she's treating you. She is behaving like a spoilt brat, and far from needing support, she needs to grow up and take responsibility for her own actions. The fact that she sat on her visa application for so long is nobody's responsibility but her own. She can scream and shout and stamp her foot all she likes, but you have no control over when the secretary in the HR department gets his/her act together and completes the paperwork. Of course, you're perfectly aware of all this. Another thing that you've also becomes painfully aware of is that when the chips are down, far from having your back, being there for you and working together to solve problems, she is an additional burden. It's easy to be a good partner when you've both got plenty of money, can travel, party and have a great time - but that's not what marriage is about. It's a commitment to be supportive no matter how bad things get.

I have to say, if you were posting on here to say that a girlfriend was behaving like this, I'd be advising that this is a MAJOR red flag and to end the relationship.

Ironically, she is subjecting you to unreasonable bullying just like your previous line manager did. And unfortunately, you are sucking it up and looking for ways to appease her. You could try keeping your cool, laying down all the facts in an, er, factual manner and tell her that you've already done everything that could be done and you're not prepared to discuss this any more with her shouting at you. Is it feasible to spend the night with a friend, or a BnB? If so, tell her that if she doesn't stop then you'll be spending the night elsewhere.

I'm looking at this:

Last night I dreaded going back home because I don't have the ability to give any assurance to my wife and know there are no other targets around but me.

You know - mature, intelligent people don't make other people suffer because they've messed up. Even if her visa situation was not at all of her own making, a mature woman would not be looking for a target. Even if your employment situation was due purely to your own wilful incompetence, a mature woman would not be using you as a target.

This is also pertinent:

No idea why my wife sat on the visa application for soooo long, but what good will it do for me to start loading up and firing this at her? No good whatsoever.

Don't load up and 'fire' at her. Just state it factually, and tell her that she needs to be aware that she has contributed to this situation and that shouting at you will not make it better. The good it WILL do is that you will be reaffirming your own boundaries, you can stop feeling like a victim and you'll be putting the responsibility right back where it belongs - with her.

You are in an invidious situation, but it's not just your employment which is the problem. There's nothing you can do about the companies for the time being, but you can change your response to your wife.

Good luck!

Another thing that you've also becomes painfully aware of is that when the chips are down, far from having your back, being there for you and working together to solve problems, she is an additional burden. It's easy to be a good partner when you've both got plenty of money, can travel, party and have a great time - but that's not what marriage is about. It's a commitment to be supportive no matter how bad things get.

I'm actually quite worried about this. When I was having problems in my job it reached a point where I fell into a depression and I'm sure this must have been difficult for my wife to deal with. She said to me that you don't understand what it's like to watch someone you love fall apart like that. However in the end she grew tired of my depression and was quite open in saying that she gave up on me. It was crushing in a way. Knowing you're in need, and your spouse basically saying you've had your 3 months of misery now that's it I'm done with you. She grew tired of listening to me talk about what was happening at work - really sick of it. I guess I needed to talk about it to work it through.

I accept that everyone has their own problems and sometimes there's nothing left for the other person, but I never expected this to be honest. Like I said before, when the problems started at work the balance of life got tipped into a near terminal velocity - but before that we were doing good and feeling good.

During the depression times I remember she said to me "what will we do when something REALLY serious happens?", referring to the fact that my problems with work were just problems that were not actually that serious. I remember saying to her that despite how bad things had been and how tough it was for me to just get through things, I was still confident that if even more serious stuff went down, I would handle it. I've always had that inner confidence because I know how to fight back from bad times and poor mental health.

Well, I don't know how serious things need to be to qualify as "serious", but being laid off after months of problems and knowing that everything hinges on you ... that was serious. I've really surprised myself in a way this last month. Having reconciled a couple of months ago that I would get no significant mental support from my wife, I reached out to others, made some new friends, and repeatedly prepped for and for the most part nailed interviews. Even though I was under tremendous pressure and the cost of failure was huge - I fail we're totally f**ked. So have I come through a serious situation and demonstrated my ability? I actually don't care what anyone else thinks about this, because I know I've coped well. There has only been one person coming out with any talk of taking the fight to this situation, staying strong, not imploding. I've helped pull us through without turning on my spouse, and over the past week have tried to comfort her when she's broken down saying she's not sure how much longer she can do this. I've tried to explain that you have to be able to cope with 6 months of crappy times and not give up, and that any plans for the future have to wait until fundamentals such as employment and the ability to pay rent have been resolved. I've tried to comfort her as much as possible, whilst trying to maintain a healthy mental state that doesn't go down blame alleys. Being able to do BOTH those things has been incredibly difficult, and I've tried to steer us away from a martial problems inquest because I'm worried that during the bad times everything is distorted. My view has been that we should not judge our marriage in the midst of the hardest of times, but instead fight through them and restore order and solid foundations - and then assess.

The past few months have changed me as a person, and I absolutely do see the link between the way I've let myself be treated at work and my own relationship at home.

But in the past my wife HAS been supportive during bad times. It's just that where we are now, after destabilising everything (the big move), we've both had problems adjusting and coping. I've maintained that we should not be surprised when we've destabilised everything like this, although she has never agreed with me and says it's not a factor in how healthy a marriage should be. But the point I'm trying to make is that it's not that she's an unsupportive person per se, but you have to consider the factors here, and things that have happened outside our control. What a test it's been.

Despite all of this, I love my wife more than anything, and if there's one thing I want more than anything it's for us to get back to when things were good. You're so right - it's easy when there's money and you can party, but when things are screwed, you need to stay supportive no matter what.

She said to me that you don't understand what it's like to watch someone you love fall apart like that.

This is so blisteringly self-centred it made my jaw drop. Reminds me of my ex-husband telling me I hadn't been supportive enough to him when MY father committed suicide...!

However, there's no point in asking something of another person if they just haven't got it to give, and it seems that both of you really need to get emotional and moral support from outside the relationship.

I'm going to stick my nose in and gently tell you, "No. No. Just no."

When you're struggling with something to the point of depression, other people don't get to tell you that your problems aren't serious enough to warrant that kind of response. That is judging, that is hurtful, that is dismissive of you and what's important to you.

I'm not saying divorce your wife, or that she doesn't deserve you. I'm not making a calll on that at all.

I'm saying please take a look at your boundaries. You seem to be a thoughtful, kind person. Keep that. And work to establish a force field between you and those would take too much from you. Not distance. Just a simple refusal to be responsible for other people's emotions.

I'm going to stick my nose in and gently tell you, "No. No. Just no."

 

When you're struggling with something to the point of depression, other people don't get to tell you that your problems aren't serious enough to warrant that kind of response. That is judging, that is hurtful, that is dismissive of you and what's important to you.

 

I'm not saying divorce your wife, or that she doesn't deserve you. I'm not making a calll on that at all.

 

I'm saying please take a look at your boundaries. You seem to be a thoughtful, kind person. Keep that. And work to establish a force field between you and those would take too much from you. Not distance. Just a simple refusal to be responsible for other people's emotions.

Hey thanks for this - it's comforting. You know even in my depression I told my wife she cannot simply change the gravity of a persons experience through her own judgement of it. It completely flies in the face of anything constructive. I found her take on this disappointing. It was utterly dismissive. And yes it's my call on how I reflect on this test of our marriage.

It's uncanny, but one of the revelations of the past few months is that I've had to sever any link between my sense of self worth and what my wife thinks of me. She has been honest and said, without elaborating, that she has been disappointed with the way she has responded to the last few months, so maybe there is hope. But as you can imagine, if you face the prospect in the future of being summarily dismissed when you're depressed due to someone elses judgement call, you're not with someone who can help you at times of strife. Invalidating someones depression is not a solution if you want to help. I guess I've learnt something about her.

So my boundaries have firmed up a lot. This is for the better, but coincidentally has been necessary to survive.

Hey thanks for this - it's comforting. You know even in my depression I told my wife she cannot simply change the gravity of a persons experience through her own judgement of it. It completely flies in the face of anything constructive. I found her take on this disappointing. It was utterly dismissive. And yes it's my call on how I reflect on this test of our marriage.

 

It's uncanny, but one of the revelations of the past few months is that I've had to sever any link between my sense of self worth and what my wife thinks of me. She has been honest and said, without elaborating, that she has been disappointed with the way she has responded to the last few months, so maybe there is hope. But as you can imagine, if you face the prospect in the future of being summarily dismissed when you're depressed due to someone elses judgement call, you're not with someone who can help you at times of strife. Invalidating someones depression is not a solution if you want to help. I guess I've learnt something about her.

 

So my boundaries have firmed up a lot. This is for the better, but coincidentally has been necessary to survive.

And not just survive, but also to thrive A sense of peace and also happiness are by-products of the boundaries, because you begin to shift focus into yourself and what you need to do at work, at play, etc. This has been my experience as I walk the same road that you're on.

It's good that your wife is looking at her behaviors and was able to confide to you that she's not proud of herself. I firmly believe our true character is both revealed and strengthened when we face obstacles. It's not the problems we face in life that defines us, because we will surely have problems. It's how we handle those problems that define us. It's grace under pressure.

You've kept at it, in spite of depression, which is pain, fear, and anger turned inwards.

In her own way, your wife has kept at it, too - and we can see that her pain, fear, and anger turned outwards.

Now you both know how each of you react to very tough times. That's huge. It sounds like you both want to make your marriage work, and to be happy together.

I say this because you mentioned there might be hope. From the outside, I see nothing but hope! You've chosen each other, and discovered that sometimes you are at opposite ends of the spectrum. You balance each other. You can learn from each other, and actively adopt some of the other person's habits to make each of you stronger. It doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't happen without working at it...and yet it does happen.

You turn inwards and are practicing forming boundaries. She turns outwards and is at least admitting that, if not actively learning to recognize other people's boundaries. If you can both let go of disappointment and the expectation that you should be like each other, then not only will you both grow, you will grow together.

Just my two cents...and I'll say it again - I see nothing but good things coming out of this very tough situation.

It's uncanny, but one of the revelations of the past few months is that I've had to sever any link between my sense of self worth and what my wife thinks of me. She has been honest and said, without elaborating, that she has been disappointed with the way she has responded to the last few months, so maybe there is hope.

It is very unhealthy to base your sense of self worth on ANYTHING outside yourself; even if you had the most adoring, supportive wife in the world, it would not change your own world view - only you can do that. Establishing a strong sense of where you finish and the other person starts is crucial to all your relationships - intimate, friendships and professional - as is the realisation that the way people behave is a reflection of who they are, not who you are.

When we stop taking responsibility for the actions of others, it leaves us free to decide whether this person is a positive or negative presence in our lives and react accordingly.

It might be useful to you to do some research on codependency, if you haven't done so already.

Hell On Heels - thank you so much for this reply. I read it yesterday and it really lifted my spirits. Knowing there's someone else out there who is going through the same thing and can see the possibility of a positive future. The last few months have been awful, and using this forum has really helped me work things out.

And not just survive, but also to thrive A sense of peace and also happiness are by-products of the boundaries, because you begin to shift focus into yourself and what you need to do at work, at play, etc. This has been my experience as I walk the same road that you're on.

Yes, I have found myself more comfortable and calm as I've firmed up on my boundaries and my behaviours have gradually changed. There's a different between knowing boundaries and selfishness, and I sort of hope this comes across in the right way to my wife. But in any case I really feel like these changes are permanent and just completely essential. In the past in our relationship (couple of years back) in an argument she used to personify me as a child, or having childish traits - and I always used to wonder why this used to really get to me. But what it did was eventually motivate me to work on myself and my boundaries. I guess in my mind if we fire comments at our bf/gf/spouse that accuse them of not being even adult about something, it's not as harmless as you might think. I've never told her she's behaving like spoilt little girl. That would be for tat - which would definitely be childish. Anyway, when she tries it now - which is rarely, I'm much calmer and simply tell her that I know what she's trying to do and that it's not having an effect.

It's good that your wife is looking at her behaviors and was able to confide to you that she's not proud of herself. I firmly believe our true character is both revealed and strengthened when we face obstacles. It's not the problems we face in life that defines us, because we will surely have problems. It's how we handle those problems that define us. It's grace under pressure.

Grace under pressure. How I love this phrase, and believe it's hugely important as we go along in life. This is why I don't believe in lashing out due to my own unhappiness, rather I turn inwards. I guess I see that as more graceful than attacking others unnecessarily. I have tried very hard to ensure that when I look back on these past 2 months, and the huge pressure that at times has left me feeling at my very limit in terms of what I can mentally handle without cracking up, I can be proud of myself. I can say, no matter how hard that was, I didn't resort to lashing out. I didn't blame my wife for everything. I recognised what needed to be done, and focused solely on that because it had to be done. It's not the first time I've had to claw my way back from a terrifying situation.

You've kept at it, in spite of depression, which is pain, fear, and anger turned inwards.

In her own way, your wife has kept at it, too - and we can see that her pain, fear, and anger turned outwards.

Yes, my wife is still here, and she's carrying on. When she has her happy moments there are moments where we look at each other and smile and it's wonderful, even if we only touch this moment for a few minutes. Her pain being turned outwards is a real problem for me, as it really is as if when she's having a mentally tough time I become a magnet and the subject of so many "Why cant you...", "I wish you would ...", almost to the point where it's unbearable, and it burns away my mental fortitude until there's almost nothing left. When she's happy, this doesn't happen. She's just happy.

Now you both know how each of you react to very tough times. That's huge. It sounds like you both want to make your marriage work, and to be happy together.

 

I say this because you mentioned there might be hope. From the outside, I see nothing but hope! You've chosen each other, and discovered that sometimes you are at opposite ends of the spectrum. You balance each other. You can learn from each other, and actively adopt some of the other person's habits to make each of you stronger. It doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't happen without working at it...and yet it does happen.

 

You turn inwards and are practicing forming boundaries. She turns outwards and is at least admitting that, if not actively learning to recognize other people's boundaries. If you can both let go of disappointment and the expectation that you should be like each other, then not only will you both grow, you will grow together.

 

Just my two cents...and I'll say it again - I see nothing but good things coming out of this very tough situation.

 

We thought we'd been through our toughest time, but the last 6 months has shown us what tough means. As to what's going to happen - how we're going to fix this marriage up - I don't know exactly how that's going to work, but we will see.