Unavailable Man - should I keep being patient?

Is unavailability ever something to be patient with? Or is it always a red flag?

How much of an obstacle is reasonable to overlook? At what point are you just stupid and not patient?

Due to my uncommon spiritual beliefs, I tried a dating site for people who share my beliefs and I met a few guys. They are all in different countries, which is what I knew it would probably result in (the whole reason we use the site is because aren't able to meet people locally).

So for the past 12 weeks, I have been talking with a man in another country that I like quite a bit. However, he has basically said that he cannot come visit me at the moment because of his ill mother. She is battling cancer and he takes care of her and cannot leave her right now. He keeps speaking of a future time when she is less dependent on him and he will be more free.... I am very sympathetic to his situation and mostly see his caring for his mom as indicators of very positive qualities.

He also works really hard at building his business and taking care of his mom, and so he has no down time (works 7 days/week and only sleeps 5 hours/night). Probably due to this, our conversations are pretty brief and via text, and we maybe have one real conversation a week with other texts being quick check-ins (ie "good morning" type of stuff).

Also, due to a language barrier, we also never speak on the phone or do video chat. It's all text. He is trying to learn my language better and says he will call once he feels he can speak more. I don't know how much effort he is making though... But basically, it seems like everything is moving at a snail's pace or is just stalled completely because of these obstacles.

I have requested nothing, and so he did mention these ideas on his own (i.e. visiting me where I live & calling me in the future). He also gets really happy when I make an attempt to use his language. Based on our shared religious beliefs, it's established we are both seeking something serious. I am wondering why he used the site if he's not really available for a relationship due to his circumstances.

I don't think this person has the intent to string me along, but I don't want to end up in that situation. At the same time, I said I am okay with taking it slow, as I figured we could just get to know each other as friends. I've built friendships on the internet over time with many people... it's not much different from this.

But I guess I am not totally okay with that, especially as it's obvious there is an attraction and we're not just interested in each other as friends. I am trying to keep the mindset of being open to other people still, and I am definitely still talking to other men. However, it's easy to get blinders on, and I don't want to become closed to other possibilities because I happen to find this person particularly attractive, yet he is not available right now and who knows when he will be.

It feels like things are just not serious enough to have a "where is this going conversation" either.

Thoughts?

Quick question - you wrote that he's currently unwilling to speak to you or do video contact because he's not proficient in your language, right? How does he communicate with you via text, then? Please clarify.

Follow up question - has there been any mention or invitation for you to go to visit him?

Are you concerned he's a catfish or setting the table for a scam?

Are you concerned he's a catfish or setting the table for a scam?

This is my concern. OP, if he's not interested in talking to you on voice and camera, I suggest that you let him go at once. To my mind, this is an insurmountable red flag.

I am wondering why he used the site if he's not really available for a relationship due to his circumstances.

I am wondering how he has time to use the site at all, when he is so pressed for time that he can only get 5 hours of sleep per night.

Positives

1) physically attractive to you

2) Same obscure or uncommon spirituality.

negatives

1) Does not speak your language

2) lives in another country

3) Won't travel.

It smells like a dead end to me. I highly suggest that you move on.

Taking it slow is going out for coffee on a first meeting, or not having sex until there is marriage or ample commitment for the both, etc. Taking it slow by choosing someone who has no intention of meeting you, but maybe he will in time, etc, is not taking it slow - it is passing the time and having interesting conversation with someone and that is all.

I'm personally not into relationships that are only online without having met in real life but whether other people find them valuable, such as yourself, that is up to them. However, I strongly urge you not to trust anyone who does not want to talk on video chat. I've had people make all sorts of excuses to me before why they can't use video chat and guess what, they were dodgy! We have all kinds if video chat available to us now and pretty much all of them are free and very effective so there is absolutely no excuse not to use video chat! I would say there is definitely something wrong here because even if he doesn't speak your language very well, he could still show his face on camera. It's actually easier to communicate even with a language barrier when you can use facial expressions and gestures. I would say that he is lying about something, most likely the fact that he's already married or in a relationship. That's why he can only text sometimes in secret but he can't talk on camera because his wife or girlfriend would see! He could have also lied about his age or appearance, but there is definitely something fishy there. Either way if you don't even know what he looks like in real life then why bother? And if he's not willing to visit you or invite you to visit him in the near future, then also why bother?

Quick question - you wrote that he's currently unwilling to speak to you or do video contact because he's not proficient in your language, right? How does he communicate with you via text, then? Please clarify.

We use google translate. Well, he mostly uses it to translate what he writes me, and some of what I write him.

The website we used was in English, so apparently he understands some English but doesn't speak it well. His mother speaks English as a native speaker, so he says he is trying to learn more by practicing with her. He says he feels stupid speaking English right now.

Follow up question - has there been any mention or invitation for you to go to visit him?

No. I have not offered. I really prefer the man to come to me.

I have not suggested video chat either. I feel self-conscious about being on video....I'm okay with how I look, I just find video awkward. I hate the phone too. But when it comes to long-distance, there's nothing else. I obviously want to see someone in movement and hear their voice....

I am also sort of, er, testing to see what initiative he takes....

He mentioned a visit and calling, but at a vague, future time.

Are you concerned he's a catfish or setting the table for a scam?

No. I'm on all his social media. He has lots of family and friends on his FB, which extends back about a decade. Everything he says so far checks out. He lives in a Western, European country, so it's not like he is some Nigerian scammer I'm not dumb enough to send someone money or travel alone, no worries about that.

I am wondering how he has time to use the site at all, when he is so pressed for time that he can only get 5 hours of sleep per night.

Well, he has time to text me for an hour or so once a week. Usually it's late at night or early morning his time, which is when he would log onto that site and other social media. I understand it's easier to multi-task when doing that stuff vs having an actual conversation.

I do think he is lonely and probably just wants someone sympathetic to talk with here and there.... I probably just shouldn't have gotten my hopes up. Like I said, I am still talking to other people, so all the eggs aren't in one basket....

No, no, always get your hopes up when you can. That's what hopes are for!

As to this bloke, in particular - well, you put my concerns to rest as much as possible with your explanations and sharing your thoughts and understanding on these points.

I don't know that this is as worrisome a prospect as I initially feared. If you are able and satisfied with taking a wait and see approach, and the time and effort you're investing now is pleasing to you and your don't think that it may impose on your ability to make other connections in the meantime, I'm actually not seeing any issues with your continuing to explore this new friendship with an eye toward it becoming more, should you decide that's what you want.

Normally, I'm skeptical enough that I would advise someone err on the side of caution but you're clearly negotiating the world with eyes wide open and brain fully engaged, so, for once, I don't feel as panicky as I usually do when video/phone chat is not employed.

As long as you aren't feeling compromised by your interest in pursuing this however much farther you may care to, I think it's worthwhile.

Good luck whatever you decide to do. Cheers, mate.

Positives

1) physically attractive to you

2) Same obscure or uncommon spirituality.

 

negatives

1) Does not speak your language

2) lives in another country

3) Won't travel.

 

It smells like a dead end to me. I highly suggest that you move on.

 

Taking it slow is going out for coffee on a first meeting, or not having sex until there is marriage or ample commitment for the both, etc. Taking it slow by choosing someone who has no intention of meeting you, but maybe he will in time, etc, is not taking it slow - it is passing the time and having interesting conversation with someone and that is all.

I'm trying to get out of the scarcity mindset, but those two positives combined are hard to find....hence, my willingness to go online and be open to something starting long-distance and developing gradually. A non-negotiable for me is my religion, which narrows my pool dramatically. Of course, language barriers have to be torn down and travel is a must.

Also there is an emotional connection with this guy. We have had a few pretty vulnerable conversations and I find him very emotionally honest. There have also been moments of synchronicity, which I do put stock into, and which I am careful to distinguish from wishful thinking.

But I want someone who is available to develop a relationship NOW and who is ethralled by me to the point of not risking losing me to someone else while he dawdles. I want to leave the door open without becoming too preoccupied by him that I close off to others...

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I can see I am not being terribly impatient or unreasonable to desire more than text at this point.

So he called me....

I think what possibly prompted it was I put my profile back up on the dating site.... he never took his down though. I didn't take mine down because of him anyway, especially given that I am still talking to someone else too. I took it down because I didn't particularly like the site over all. It was overwhelming to weed through all the duds. I felt less anxious once I took it down. But I decided this time to just not check it as much. Plus, I have two weeks of the subscription left, so I may as well see it through to the end.

Being honest with myself, I know I put it back up to send a message - the message that I am not totally sold on him and he needs to try a bit harder to keep things moving forward. I have mixed feelings about doing that, because I hate passive-aggressiveness and it feels a bit like that to me. However, keeping myself "out there" helps me not feel too attached to the idea of someone, which is important for me because I get caught up in fantasy easily. I don't like to get stuck in endless options and keeping one eye out for something better either, preferring to focus on a person or two that I feel the most potential with, BUT things are moving at such a snail's pace that I need to stay open emotionally to other possibilities that may arise.

So he happened to be online on the site around the same time as me....and the very next morning he texts me and tells me why I have not heard from him in 3 days and how crazy things are with his mom's health (all these doctor appointments, plus the physical care he gives her, etc). I didn't ask him anything.... nor was I acting upset (because I was not). But the fact that he said all this and emphasized he likes talking to me makes me think he saw my profile back up.... I mean, he just launched into an explanation as if it was a defense. After he said he likes talking to me, I said I like talking to him too, BUT that it would feel nice to hear his voice. So he gives me some spiel about how actions say more than words and that people can be deceived through mere talking - and I agreed, of course!

This morning...he unexpectedly called me! It was a very awkward 1.5 minute conversation. I was driving and it sounded like I was talking from the bottom of a well... and he couldn't manage one word in English besides hi and bye XD ... BUT, I am thrilled he made the effort. And then we had a real conversation via text afterwards (and after I stopped driving ). I also sent him a brief voice message on whatsapp so he could hear my voice NOT coming through a car stereo... Seemed fair since I heard his voice normally on my end.

The other guy contacted me yesterday too, but he is way less consistent overall, even though he is more eager to have phone conversations. I simply am not as excited about him, so I don't notice as much XD . Of course, he speaks English better and is not as far away. It makes me concerned I am drawn to people who are less available...

You've never met so "actions" is out and what makes him think texting is less "deceiving" than a phone call?

What site is this that has so many duds?

it would feel nice to hear his voice. So he gives me some spiel about how actions say more than words and that people can be deceived through mere talking

Thank you for the update! I'm always interested in knowing how things are going for members after their initial posts.

My take:

I'm also not remotely a fan of passive-aggressive behavior and I appreciate your concern. FWIW, I don't think that you did anything even close, particularly given your awareness of and determination to avoid such things.

I was impressed by his willingness to voice chat with you. I won't belabor my catfishing concerns, but I was relieved that he didn't let the matter rest on his trepidation about voice/video. I also think it is a good sign that he's not only willing to compromise, he takes the initiative to try something new / out of his comfort zone on his own.

Are you often attracted to unavailable men or might it be you're especially attracted to this unavailable man?

I wish you luck.

You've never met so "actions" is out and what makes him think texting is less "deceiving" than a phone call?

 

What site is this that has so many duds?

From what I understand, I think he feels he has learned more about me via my photos (I have an instagram account with lots of photos showing what goes on in my life) and learning about my life choices, as well as how I respond to him (ie offering comfort vs advice). Of course, that can deceive too, but if you really want to deceive someone, you can do that in person also. I guess I am not paranoid about deception as I haven't experienced it yet. I've done a lot of online dating in the past and had a few boyfriends and no one has deceived me yet.

I also don't think his hesitation to call is differentiating it from text other than his ability to speak English, which he is embarrassed about.

I think what he says about actions is good, as it kind of made my point for me; it obviously sunk in that he has not been showing enough with his actions that he is serious. The phone call is not merely about hearing his voice, but the action of making the call.

The other action that must happen is coming to visit me sooner than later, but I recognize a need for patience there, as well as not getting too attached to such an outcome in the meantime.

The site is specific to my spiritual beliefs and I'd rather not reveal it.

Thank you for the update! I'm always interested in knowing how things are going for members after their initial posts.

 

My take:

 

I'm also not remotely a fan of passive-aggressive behavior and I appreciate your concern. FWIW, I don't think that you did anything even close, particularly given your awareness of and determination to avoid such things.

 

I was impressed by his willingness to voice chat with you. I won't belabor my catfishing concerns, but I was relieved that he didn't let the matter rest on his trepidation about voice/video. I also think it is a good sign that he's not only willing to compromise, he takes the initiative to try something new / out of his comfort zone on his own.

 

Are you often attracted to unavailable men or might it be you're especially attracted to this unavailable man?

 

I wish you luck.

I am usually the rebound girl who boosts someone's self-esteem. The person seems available and very open emotionally (sometimes TOO open), but over time I realize they are not over their issues and not truly ready for a new relationship. We will have a full blown, in-person relationship, and then I realize I'm just their free therapist and arm candy.

Or I get infatuated with a friend at a distance who is not romantically interested in me.

This follows neither pattern, but I consider him unavailable to proceed in a relationship because of his circumstances. I don't think he is a catfish, but I think he likes talking to someone, and I could become "in the meantime" person who gives him attention until his situation changes and he can have a real relationship. I am cautious because of that...

I am particularly attracted to him. The other guy is probably just as unavailable and moving at a snail's pace, but I'm not as into him so I don't care.

Just to clarify:

I don't mean for this to sound at all condescending or exhaustively explained, but are you familiar with the catfish phenomenon? Obviously, you know what it means - my question is geared more to having heard/read about just how inexplicably, truly unbelievably far some catfish will go.

I'm not at all saying that I feel sure this chap's a catfish.

My inquiry is solely in general.

I have heard about catfishing...yes. I have even seen the fake documentary Catfish some years back.

I don't think his online identity is deceptive because

- his facebook goes back 10 years and it would be quite a feat to have a consistent yet fake identity going that far back

- he has almost 400 friends/family on his fb, a huge chunk who are family/friends and have tagged him in photos from their accounts & regularly comment on his stuff, another huge chunk who are friends in the same small town or nearby city, and another decent chunk who went to college with him and/or are work colleagues... IMO, there are just too many people for them all to be fake accounts made to bolster a fake identity

- he looks his stated age...his photos are realistic and they show his aging over the past 10 years. He is attractive, but not like celebrity-level hot.

- he is not flattering or coming on strongly or acting like he is in love with me already

- he is not over the top in anyway or extremely agreeable or very vague

- his accent is genuine & he clearly speaks his claimed mother tongue...after hearing his voice, I am confident he is from the European country he claims to be from

Of course anything is possible. I think it is more likely he is who he says he is but is not really ready to move forward romantically, yet he likes the attention.

Fair enough. I don't want to flog a dead horse, here and I really don't have a sense that this person is not being honest about himself. I just wanted to make sure that you knew the extremes some folk will go to for reasons beyond comprehension.

Are you unable or disinterested in meeting people locally? Again, not at all judging, just trying to brainstorm.

I am totally open to meeting people locally but have decided to not date anyone who doesn't share my religion. This significantly narrows my pool of options locally. I do volunteer work via my church and have opportunities to meet new people, but so far I have not met anyone I like who also likes me. I mostly keep meeting other single women!

Religions often have an imbalance of men and women (less men than women), and mine is no different. Religious people often marry young, and mine is no different; most attractive men my age are married. It's been over 5 years since I've had a serious relationship... I hate dated a few men locally since then (was set up by family/friends), but I just didn't find them attractive, and I DID give them some time to grow on me...

I have had a few friends of the same religion meet and get engaged to someone from another country, but usually they first met the man in-person when they travelled for vacation or volunteer work. Still, it has made me open to the option of finding someone from another country, given they are from a western country that I am willing to live in.

Couple of things (if any are applicable):

Does the church you attend have any personal/social network you could employ to further your ability to meet compatible people? Other like minded churches / organizations beyond the one you physically attend?

Are you able to / interested in traveling to places, vouched for by your mates, for instance, and vacationing / volunteering there? I realize this is not ideal for several reasons, but I can appreciate feeling like you are restricted by the prospective pool of new friends / dates that you currently have access to.

^ Yes, the religion is all over the world and I have visited many other physical locations as well as going to regional and even national events with thousands of people. I always visit the local congregations when I travel...just in the past year, I've been to locations in Europe and Asia, for example. Even though most people are married, single women or reeeeally young, I've met some single, age-appropriate men, but nothing came of it.

I am capable of traveling to this guy's country, but I honestly want the man to come to me unless I meet someone incidentally while traveling for other reasons, which I am 100% open to. The country he is in is one I'd love to visit as a tourist, but I have reservations about going there just to meet him right now...I suppose it is hypocritical of me to want that from him .

I don't know that I'd deem it hypocritical. But then I finally just got around to reading The Gift of Fear, so I'm loathe to encourage anyone to eschew their inner voice on much. I've gotten a bit beyond better safe than sorry thanks to that book, I'm afraid.

And in any event, you're not saying that you absolutely, positively will not ever consider such a thing. You just know your current preferences.

I'm also a big fan of setups via friends/family. If there are no likely avenues for an incoming recommendation from these sources, presently, would it be possible / feasible to look more actively at your church - asking acquaintances, and the like as opposed to strictly friends/family?

Please know that I am making these suggestions in addition to your interaction with this man, not in lieu of. I don't want to sound like I'm harping on him a/o you to not pursue your connection with him.

I'm trying to get out of the scarcity mindset, but those two positives combined are hard to find....hence, my willingness to go online and be open to something starting long-distance and developing gradually. A non-negotiable for me is my religion, which narrows my pool dramatically. Of course, language barriers have to be torn down and travel is a must.

 

Also there is an emotional connection with this guy. We have had a few pretty vulnerable conversations and I find him very emotionally honest. There have also been moments of synchronicity, which I do put stock into, and which I am careful to distinguish from wishful thinking.

 

But I want someone who is available to develop a relationship NOW and who is ethralled by me to the point of not risking losing me to someone else while he dawdles. I want to leave the door open without becoming too preoccupied by him that I close off to others...

 

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I can see I am not being terribly impatient or unreasonable to desire more than text at this point.

Even if he is enthralled, few people will give up their country, family, job, etc, for someone unless they were in a physical relationship with them when they lived in the same country and realize they can't live without them - and even then there is no guarantee that one can migrate to the other country.

Physical attractiveness can be found with someone else. There is a certain "type" of guy i am attracted to more than other types - i can be attracted to someone who is not my usual physical type because of the whole package, but as far as who would turn my head i have a type. Its not so rare that you have to go outside of the country. Unless you have an off the wall criteria. Also, i can't really believe that your spirituality would really be so scarce that you can't meet someone if it is a somewhat organized religion, which it seems to be if there are events and churches all over the world. remember - even if there are more women than men in a church, those women have brothers, nephews, friends, classmates and neighbors in their extended networks that they have already vetted as far as their level of dependibility, kindness, etc. I don't think traveling around the world to find men who attend your same church will be fruitful. Going in deeper and creating a strong network of female friends and support might glean more for you because you get more involved in eachother's lives and they can kind of be lookouts for eligible men, particularly if they are married, have male relatives or are not looking in the same age group as you are. These guys might be receptive to your faith and not be spiritual themselves but are okay with you practicing, or they agree with the religion and were raised that way but just aren't into formally going.

I don't know that I'd deem it hypocritical. But then I finally just got around to reading The Gift of Fear, so I'm loathe to encourage anyone to eschew their inner voice on much. I've gotten a bit beyond better safe than sorry thanks to that book, I'm afraid.

 

And in any event, you're not saying that you absolutely, positively will not ever consider such a thing. You just know your current preferences.

 

I'm also a big fan of setups via friends/family. If there are no likely avenues for an incoming recommendation from these sources, presently, would it be possible / feasible to look more actively at your church - asking acquaintances, and the like as opposed to strictly friends/family?

 

Please know that I am making these suggestions in addition to your interaction with this man, not in lieu of. I don't want to sound like I'm harping on him a/o you to not pursue your connection with him.

As noted, I have been set up by family and friends. Everyone knows I'd like to marry and am open to being introduced to people. I definitely put it out there. So yeah, just because I am doing the online thing doesn't mean I am closed to other avenues.

I also am not opposed to visiting this guy out of fear. I am not a fearful person. I do believe in intuition and regularly am guided by it, but I think fear and wishful thinking cloud it. I obviously lean more towards wishful thinking over fear, but I've worked on not getting caught up in fantasy too much. People say I take risks, but most of the time they pay off, and I more often regret not taking a risk than taking one. I'm not into playing it safe....but I'm not desperate either. I want him to come to me to show me that he values me. I like masculine men who take the lead and make stuff happen.

I should mention personality....If you're familiar with MBTI, I type as an INtP and am generally too reserved and cerebral for most men. What is rare for me is to find someone who mentally stimulates me, but who also can cause a visceral reaction in me (it's rare for someone to bring out my softer side). Plus, I am regarded as odd among people in my religion, especially since I am a woman with this personality. I am not a traditionalist, and some are put off by me, interpreting me as pushing boundaries or not conforming enough. I wholeheartedly believe I will find someone who suits me, but I also think I need to be open to it happening in less typical ways.

Even if he is enthralled, few people will give up their country, family, job, etc, for someone unless they were in a physical relationship with them when they lived in the same country and realize they can't live without them - and even then there is no guarantee that one can migrate to the other country.

I'm not asking for that. I'd like for someone to visit me first, that is all. I would be willing to relocate for the right person. My job can be done remotely. I wouldn't "give up" my family either. There is a thing such as travel... I am not attached to my country. I'm not a sentimental person nor security-seeking. I'm exhilarated by the unknown and I love learning and adapting.

I know people who met someone in another country, got to know each other at a distance, and then one relocated after marriage. It works for some people. I see no reason to limit my options there.

Physical attractiveness can be found with someone else. There is a certain "type" of guy i am attracted to more than other types - i can be attracted to someone who is not my usual physical type because of the whole package, but as far as who would turn my head i have a type. Its not so rare that you have to go outside of the country. Unless you have an off the wall criteria.

I have never dated anyone I was really attracted to physically off the bat. I've dated men shorter than me, with receding hairlines, etc, and I found them attractive.

I have also gone on dates with men I did not find attractive at all, and they never grew on me, but I gave it a shot.

I really don't need to be preached to about this....

This guy is not only physically attractive to me. I also am not sold on him yet, but I like him and am getting to know him.

Also, i can't really believe that your spirituality would really be so scarce that you can't meet someone if it is a somewhat organized religion, which it seems to be if there are events and churches all over the world. remember - even if there are more women than men in a church, those women have brothers, nephews, friends, classmates and neighbors in their extended networks that they have already vetted as far as their level of dependibility, kindness, etc. I don't think traveling around the world to find men who attend your same church will be fruitful. Going in deeper and creating a strong network of female friends and support might glean more for you because you get more involved in eachother's lives and they can kind of be lookouts for eligible men, particularly if they are married, have male relatives or are not looking in the same age group as you are. These guys might be receptive to your faith and not be spiritual themselves but are okay with you practicing, or they agree with the religion and were raised that way but just aren't into formally going.

I already have a network of awesome female friends and am extremely active in my religion. I have met ex-boyfriends that way, but obviously it didn't work out with them. In recent years, I have not met anyone through my girlfriends, but that doesn't mean I won't again.

I am not looking for someone simply receptive to my faith or someone okay with me practicing it. This is a non-negotiable dealbreaker. I've tried dating outside my faith before....it's not what I want in life. I would also rather be single than have anything less than a deep connection with someone.

I really don't appreciate this tone either... It feels condescending and unnecessary.