Can I get more love and affection from this guy?

I would really appreciate some feedback on a situation with a guy I'm dating, and how to turn it around. So, we've been dating for three months. I'm 40, he's 49. He's coming out of a long term marriage, and been separated for a year. I've been divorced for two years. His marriage was quite a miserable one where, he said, his ex felt he didn't love her enough, and she was permanently unhappy or overtly aggressive, and he said, a lot of the time he felt like walking on egg shells. The reason, he said, he had stayed for so long was for the kids.

Now what I feel is akin to what he said his ex was feeling. I don't feel loved enough, important enough or special enough, and I don't get nearly enough attention or affection from him. He's a very successful and a very busy alfa guy. Nonetheless, I talked to him more than once about needing more contact between dates and more connection and verbal affection. He said he'd try, but so far it's not happening for reasons mainly due to his work.

Generally when we are together, he's very physically affectionate. But last time when he came to help me move around some furniture in my house, it was all business like. He walked in, got busy and worked hard till he finished, no hug, no kiss, no hand holding. Only after i hugged him myself, he thawed out, and right away wanted sex. Am I supposed to wonder why he was not affectionate this time? Why he's being hot and cold?

Our status is not determined. Are we just dating? Or am I his girlfriend? I have no idea how he views it. A couple times earlier when I voiced my need for contact between dates and more verbal affection, and said that if I didn't get it, I'd call it quits. He said "please don't give up on me", "all these years in my marriage trained me to shun contact with my wife, and to be distant, what you want is the opposite, and I need time to adjust". It's the same with phone calls. He says he hated speaking on the phone to her, and has a bit of that aversion still. He also said a couple times that he is very attached to me, and that he has strong feelings for me, and that he will try his best to communicate and call. So far it's a hit and miss. When he calls we have great conversations, or sends sweet and caring texts, it fills me with warmth and tenderness. And when he doesn't or sends me one mundane text a day, i am wondering what am I doing here.

But I don't know how to do get out the right way. I thought that I'll tell him that I really like him, and enjoy spending time with him, but that I want to start seeing other people. On the other hand, when I think of the adjustment he may require, I feel that he needs a solid ground, trust and safety to open up and give freely. So when I say to him that I want to start seeing other people, it'll pull the rug from under his feet. He'll loose the sense of safety and trust in me. But I don't know any better way to do it.

So guys, what do you think? His adjustment - is it real? How can I teach him to be more loving, present and verbally affectionate, or is it unteachable, and the only solution is to call it a day?

It's been 3 mos and he's still married, so dating. Let him go or be more patient. Those are the choices here.

we've been dating for three months. He's coming out of a long term marriage. Our status is not determined. Are we just dating? Or am I his girlfriend?

Based on what you wrote here, the guy sounds pretty broken. He needs incredible patience and understanding, time to heal, and probably some serious therapy.

In the long run, you won't get love & affection by demanding it -- probably the opposite will be true. This many problems only 3 months in is a red flag to me. I don't think he's ready for dating.

Either find a way to make your peace with this situation and accept him exactly as now he is, or walk away. Don't say you want to date other people -- that's just rubbing salt in his wounds. Simply say it's not working for you and go not contact.

3 months is usually a typical gauge of a relationship. By now, you have learned a lot about the person, and intimacy has occured. However, you are both coming from long term marriages, and a year is still very recent. I think two things are happening here:

1) He isn't a super affectionate person all the time

2) He is still in pain over the marriage, since he is an Alpha, maybe is too strong/proud to admit it

You need to take that into consideration. At the 3 month mark, this could be where the relationship will remain.

Thank you guys, for your views and advice. You all seem to agree that I only have two available options here. Okay, I understand well the one that is a walk away.

Help me understand the one that involves more patience and what are the pros and cons.

Gebaird, you said that so many problems at 3 months is a red flag, and so it is to me. My gut instinct is to walk away, and I'd have already done it by now if not for my rationalisations. "Am I not over reacting? Am I being objective?" etc. Literally yesterday, I was thinking "This is it, I am done here". Yet my rationalisations have made me post a topic here today, and engage in a conscious examination. This is because I really like him. Yikes.

So if it's a red flag, and he is indeed not ready for dating - I think so too by the way - the odds of me being hurt and having wasted my time in this patient limbo are 3-4 out of 5. I may become his weeping pillow or his therapist - something I already see happening. And after he feels much better and stronger, he'll say "thank you very much, it was pleasure to meet you, now I am ready for new adventures". I don't want to become his weeping blanket or his therapist, not only this is a heavy stuff, all the details and nuances will likely turn me off.

And finally the pros, what are they, and how soon it is reasonable to expect an improvement?

At least a year after his divorce is finalized.

And finally the pros, what are they, and how soon it is reasonable to expect an improvement?

Short answer, no. You get as much love and affection from someone as they are capable or want to give. Anything else is up to them. If he's not interested or not providing what you need or want then the larger question becomes why are you trying to fit a round peg into a square hole.

Either be 1,000 percent on board with the person in front of you or not at all. But things like affection and love are not push-button reactions wherein someone puts in X number of words and deeds and will automatically get Y back. You can't do anything to change you, only him.

Self-deception is a major flaw of mankind, I'd say it probably leads us all down more wrong turns and bad paths than anything else does. So at some point you are going to have to grab yourself by the scruff of the neck and ask yourself, "Do I really want this, what's in front of me now, not what I keep pretending it will become?" And if the answer is no then you bug out of there, face the temporary pain of giving up a dream that is just that, only a dream, and move on to find better and someone more suited to you.

I agree, this is just way too much drama for such a short period of time. Three years in with three kids I'd tell you try counseling first, I would get the hesitation, but three months just means you've dated just long enough to find out what he's really like. And this is who he is, is that what you want to settle for.

And no, at this point it's infatuation, it's not love. It dies a whole lot easier if you walk away now. Truth is if you did three months from now you'll be wondering why you stayed as long as you did.

Remember, it really is true that no one ever regrets leaving a bad relationship once they've healed, they just regret they stayed as long as they did. I would walk and examine why I feel I need a relationship in my life so badly, that I'm settling for a known dead end. And yes, it's a dead end. This guy has serious issues and needs to see a therapist, a real one, not a b**ching board/I need you to make me feel better about my own screwups.

Pros - if he got into therapy, dated no one and kept both up for a year, and took full ownership for his own mistakes that might be when you'd see any improvements. That would mean a year of no contact at all, so he doesn't now expect someone else to hold his hand and pick up his own mess for him, which is what he's doing.

There are no pros to dating someone fresh out of another relationship. I never found any, don't know any of my friends who did, and eventually adopted a male friend's hard rule of "No, I will not date you if you have been less than six months to a year out of your last relationship/marriage/love affair." In his words, "I'm tired of being rebound boy." So the next woman he dated had been divorced for two years, was happy on her own, they married a year later. So yeah, being the rebound is a really bad idea ever.

At 3 months you both should be in the honeymoon phase and be very into each other. In fact right now he should be showing you more not less affection than he did when you first met.

I would say it is going to get worse not better as time goes on. His ex-wife's comments coupled with his lack of affection and emotional connection pretty much tells the whole story doesn't it?

You cannot be his therapist or teach him how to be more loving. It is time to trust your gut and end this and continue your search for the right guy for you.

Lost

It's been 3 mos and he's still married, so dating. Let him go or be more patient. Those are the choices here.

I vote for let him go. A guy still married (and he can be separated for years, who knows) is not a great candidate for meeting your emotional needs.

Based on what you wrote here, the guy sounds pretty broken. He needs incredible patience and understanding, time to heal, and probably some serious therapy.

I agree. But how can he fully heal before he's even divorced? I mean just the act of getting divorced will be another trauma for him.

And finally the pros, what are they?

The only pros I can see are associated with your own personal growth. Staying with him could give you the opportunity to learn to give yourself the love and affection you aren't getting from him. It could help you learn patience, understanding, unconditional acceptance and it could help you learn to rely on and trust yourself in new ways.

However, there are ways to learn these lessons without walking through emotional hell, and if you can already see the writing on the wall, then why suffer needlessly? Finding a guy with fewer issues can still help you grow as a person and be happier along the way. Staying with this guy could just as easily backfire -- making you insecure, needy and codependent, lowering your self-esteem and making you wish you had taken the advice you were given in this thread

I wish you the best and am sorry you are in this situation. Every challenge is an opportunity to learn. You just have to decide which lessons you most need right now.

Thank you so much guys, Paris Paulette, Lost and Ms darcy, Gebaird, Betterwithout and Wiseman. Many excellent points.

ParisPaulette - thanks so much for taking your time to write a proper reply.

Okay, going with the gut, what shall I say, "call me after you're divorced" "call me after you've seen a therapist for a year" see if I am available. I want to show him that I care about him, and that I don't shut the door completely. I want to do what I need to do, yet without hurting him more.

Also, I think I want to put it all in an email rather than talk to him face to face. The guy is travelling for work now anyways. An email would reach him fine and with no delay. I don't think I want to delay this thing any more.

You tell him, "Look, I like you, but this isn't working for me. I feel you need to be divorced and on your own for at least a year, and some therapy would do you good too. IF you have those things all in place and it's been a year out and you're interested, please call me and see if I'm available and up for coffee. But for now it's best we no longer stay in touch. Goodbye."

And then you don't respond to any pleas or I need yous or anything of that sort. If it gets to be too much, block and delete him.

Remember, you also have a right just as equally to get what you want out of a relationship and not settle for scraps or only what someone else wants to give you. You want the relationship where you're an equal, not a free therapist/bed mate and/or possibly being played by a married man who wants a side piece. Because if I had a dollar for every time I've heard a married person play the whole "We're separated/I'm getting a divorce," when they were lying about that I'd be able to buy a really nice vacation to someplace like Italy for a week. Wouldn't be rich, but I'd have a nice chunk of change.

Stand up for yourself. And yes, email is fine. You haven't been together long enough to owe him any more than that. Especially if you think he can manipulate you with tears, etc. which yeah I think he will. Also keep in mind his traveling for work means you have no way of knowing what is or isn't the truth.

Just all the way around this looks like a really bad deal for you. So why stay? He could be happily married with five kids and a wife that has no clue for all you know, or work down the street and he tells you he travels for work as an explanation for why he's often not available. Seriously, how well do you really know this guy? Have you seen his place of work, been to his house, met his friends and family, anything like that? Seen for your own two eyes the wife and he aren't together and she's posting on her Facebook, "Can't wait until those papers are signed and I'm a free woman!"

Anything like that?

Try not to string him along with this : "and that I don't shut the door completely". Break up and set him and yourself completely free.

Just end it cleanly saying you are in different places in life even though you care a lot about him, blah blah blah, email is fine.

It's only 3 mos dating, he'll survive this ending. He has other people for support, etc. His real journey is getting through the divorce, not ending a 3 mos dating thing.

I want to show him that I care about him, . I want to do what I need to do, yet without hurting him more. An email would reach him fine and with no delay. I don't think I want to delay this thing any more.

"call me after you're divorced" "call me after you've seen a therapist for a year" see if I am available.

This could take him more than one year. What about what you want to do during this year (s)? Do you really want to flip the calendar 12 times and wait for him? Surely there are other men looking for a great woman like you!

I want to show him that I care about him, and that I don't shut the door completely.

Personally, I think shutting the door completely IS the best way for you to show him that you care. You love him -- and yourself -- enough to walk away for good so he can heal.

Perhaps your role in his life was never to stay with him long-term. Perhaps you were simply a mirror to help him see his scars.

This could take him more than one year. What about what you want to do during this year (s)? Do you really want to flip the calendar 12 times and wait for him? Surely there are other men looking for a great woman like you!

This was just to sweeten the pill. Of course, I am going to continue looking for the right guy for me.

I don't think he will take it to well if you tell him to call you after he gets some therapy. What you can do is:

"I really care about you but the way things have been going it just isn't working for me" "I need ________, __________ and __________ in a relationship and you seem unable to give those things at this time in your life" "If you ever find yourself completely divorced and healed from the end of your marriage look me up and if I am single maybe we can talk"

He needs to discover his faults and fix them on his own without a lesson plan from you otherwise it will not be real. You are correct that it is better to do this now then wait any longer. I don't know about sending it to him while he is out of town though. Your call, after all you have been dating a short time.

Good luck

Lost

Thank you so much guys for your suggestions of what to say. I'll make something along those lines, and send him an email.

One thing I don't know how I'll do without is the fact that he is very good influence on me. I learn so much from him - new ideas, thoughts, books, podcasts etc. We always go somewhere interesting - concerts, museums, exhibitions, restaurants. He plays piano when he's at mine. My life will be poorer without him, that's a fact. We share so many interests, and shared so much of our lives with each other. He needs intimacy as much as I need it, and we both have been very honest with each other. I will miss this part hugely. There is no one right now in my life who I respect and admire more. Even though he comes from a very privileged family, and went to an ivy league school, he is a totally self made guy, hard working and humble. I have tears on my eyes just thinking that I won't have this any more.

He says that he's a masculine guy, and doesn't know how to be affectionate with words, but that if I need him or need his help, he will make sure to get to me as fast he can. That's his care for me, how he understands it. "Talking nice sweet girly talk is not my thing, I don't know how to do it", he says. When I told him my second builder has quit recently, he volunteered to help on Saturday. Moving furniture was only a part of the bigger job for him.

And physically he is always very affectionate except this one time last Saturday. I am not defending him, just trying to be objective.

But I do realise that we met in the wrong time.

Don't you think your being a bit needy and over-dramatic? He seems to like you, why can't you just slow down and give him a chance?

It seems like hes confuse.if your not happy you have to talk and tell him how you feel. But you have to decide wheather to stay in the relationship or not

Don't you think your being a bit needy and over-dramatic? He seems to like you, why can't you just slow down and give him a chance?

Dramatic in which sense? Needy? Hmm, I don't think I am being needy. Just been in good relationships where at 3 months mark it is a honeymoon, and I feel secure, loved, important and special. This one is not like that, it feels weird as I don't feel all of the above, and that's why I posted here. But then I have other things like I wrote above that I didn't have in other relationships.

I just think it's only been 3 months, and that you could be getting rid of a good thing. He may just be the type of guy who loves internally without overly showing it externally.

I just think it's only been 3 months, and that you could be getting rid of a good thing. He may just be the type of guy who loves internally without overly showing it externally.

It maybe, but what do I do with it? I feel like something big is missing. Like there's no romance. And I want romance. At least at the beginning..

Maybe I am rushing and dramatising it, depends on the angle. I am used to be put on pedestal right away and I stay there. This guy is himself on the pedestal, and my achievements dwarf compared to his. It is not easy to impress him. But I do get to impress him now and again.. I don't know maybe he needs someone more effervescent to want to change his ways. He used to say "you re beautiful' and often. Now he says, 'you are so cute'. Cute is the only word for me now. Why did he relegate me? It makes me doubt that I am attractive enough which is bonkers because scores of guys would line up to date me. They do line up already, as I don't want to loose my head over this one.

Maybe this guy has been put in your life to show you, it doesn't have to be all romance and flowers. That he offers a different experience. Maybe a lasting experience.

Give it a bit longer maybe? Express what your saying here to him? If your a romance person, then he obviously is not the one for you. But when you think about it, none of your other romance's worked out either.