My aunt almost killed herself yesterday...

...and she proceeded to call me today and tell me all about it.

To get you in perspective, she's my aunt and she lives by herself since her second husband died two years ago. Her first husband died 18 years ago and her daughter was stillborn. Her mother (my grandmother) died a couple months before I was born. So, you see, all of this contributed to her depression, which she says she's had pretty much forever. She also has multiple health problems, including heart, stomach, bladder, etc.

She blames me and my mom for not offering the support she needs, even though we're pretty much emotionally drained from both her and other situations in our life. She had threatened to end her life multiple times over the years but always said she couldn't do it at the last minute for lack of courage. Yesterday, apparently, she was stopped by a friend who saw her in the car by the coast and invited her over to her house. She described this as some sort of miracle.

My actual mother is possibly bipolar (undiagnosed) and she relies on my aunt for mostly everything. In her defense, I think my aunt enjoys this as it makes her feel useful and fulfilled (her words). She's always saying how she always lived for everyone else and never for herself and how she absolutely doesn't regret it, and how ungrateful we are for not treating her better. My mom also suffers from a myriad of other psychiatric diseases and has thyroid problems that often give her brain fog, etc. She's not someone I can rely on at all and I've known this probably all my life. I usually take up on the mother role.

My mom, I believe, used to rely on my dad for everything (including her job) up until their chaotic divorce more than 10 years ago. I've a rocky relationship with my dad, especially since he was never home and could care less about us. So after he left, she went to my aunt for help. Basically, my aunt is pretty much taking care of my mom's small business, as well as her own (they share an office). If it weren't for her, my mom wouldn't be able to make a living.

My aunt's depression and whatever else she has have become so unbearable over the years. She's hypercritical, loves putting my mom down for her incompetence, is always accusing us of not appreciating her enough and never talking to her or valuing her. She also says she's very lonely in her empty house. This I completely understand. However, I've found I can't help her. When I try, it only seems to make things worst. She keeps telling me "you've changed so much. When you were little, you were supportive and you loved me unconditionally. Now you've grown and you couldn't care less about me. You hate me, despise me, and are ashamed of me. You never call me "aunt" anymore! And your mom never calls me "sis" anymore!" Yes, these are real conversations we have. I've tried my best to try and understand but these things make no sense to me.

Thing is, I'm depressive myself. I've been since my parents' divorce, at least. I've told her countless times to seek medical help and also to rely on other people, too, like her friends because I alone cannot help her as I have enough to deal with myself. She then proceeds to tell me I'd be happy to see her out of my life as long so she didn't bother me anymore, and that psychologists will not be able to help, only her family's support, and she can't burden her friends with these things as they enough on their own. That everyone is dying around her and her closest relatives (me and my mom) don't care about her at all. It's true that we aren't supportive enough but that's because we don't know how anymore!

When I tell her I'm depressive she says I cannot be depressive, because I have my whole life in front of me and projects and things I like and friends and people I love. She basically brushes my issues off and says hers are real issues (she also uses the age card a lot - she's 66) and that a woman her age has nothing to live for anymore.

Both me and my mom are incapable of dealing with this situation since we're both mentally unstable ourselves. I have pretty good days, but that's because I live in another city and have less contact with her. But I still receive almost daily calls, half of them complaining and venting, the other half pretty clipped and awkward since I never know what to say. It seems every word sets something off. I feel she treats me like a psychiatrist and when I try to tell her that's not my job, she gets mad and says she can't count on anyone besides herself.

So this weekend she wouldn't answer the phone on Saturday. She also never picked up on Sunday. By mid-afternoon I called my mom and asked if she had talked to her. She said she hadn't and then called her a couple times. Nothing. I started to get a really bad feeling, so I told my mom to get my stepdad and go over to my aunt's house to see if she was okay. A couple minutes later, finally she calls in a weird voice and says she's sorry, her phone seemed to be mute and she would call me the next day (today) since she wasn't home. I called my mom, who was on the way, to tell her about it.

Today, the call went something along these lines: "I can't tell your mom this, she'll only get nervous. But I will tell you, if you want" (To which I asked "Well, why would you tell me if you can't tell mom?" and she just ignored me and continued) "I'd been thinking about doing this all week, and yesterday I finally did. I got in the car and drove to the seaside. I had a bag of pills with me and some water. I even left a note in my bedroom, which I had locked, leaving the key outside." I can barely remember the rest because it all felt so unreal and I kept thinking "Why is she telling me this? Why is she so calm about this?" She also said one day she would get the courage and finally do it, but she had to wait a while before being able to go through it again.

I didn't know how to deal with the situation so we both ended up crying and screaming on the phone. I honestly don't know whether I helped or just made things worse. I honestly feel like she's torturing me and even though I know her head is not right at the moment, she keeps refusing professional help. She is putting so much pressure on me and when I tell her this, she just turns it around and says she has no one else and she might as well cease to exist if she's such a burden. I honestly don't know what to tell her or do anymore. I want her to get better, for both hers and our sake. But I don't know how....

I'm sorry for the long post. Basically, how do you deal with someone who has gotten to this point? Thank you.

Oh, gosh, I think I would limit my responses to her to either:

1. "Aunt __________, I love you" (keep it present tense, and use this when she's venting, complaining or accusing you, or just use it ALL the time.)

or

2. "Aunt __________, you sound suicidal, I'm calling 911 to help you". Be willing to call 911, whether she believes it will "help" her or not; you are not trained to help a person in crisis; she may or may not be successful in her attempt, but if she is threatening to do it, that's the signal to get her emergency help.

Both of theses responses keep the conversation in the present.

Thank you, journeynow

I've tried that but all she says is "You say it but you don't mean it. I can feel, I feel it in the way you act and look at me!" I guess I do feel like this person is a shadow of the aunt I used to know and love and I'm scared that might have shown in some occasions. I absolutely don't want her to feel unloved but it's very hard for me to show any feelings at all, to anyone (except maybe my boyfriend). I've tried and failed so many times...

I also feel powerless because I live a good hour and a half away from her and can't keep an eye on her or what she's doing all the time. My mom, I think is also ill-equipped to deal with this. I'm still debating if I should tell her what happened - she'll be an absolute wreck but I think she needs to know.

"Aunt __________, you sound suicidal, I'm calling 911 to help you". Be willing to call 911

I've tried that but all she says is "You say it but you don't mean it. I can feel, I feel it in the way you act and look at me!"

I'm serious, call 911.

You are both doing the same thing, if you say you'll do something but don't actually do it. You might be scared to call 911, but do it anyway. That IS in your power. Don't listen to her complain about you. End the conversation with the options I mentioned. If she's mentioning suicide, call 911.

Hello, aseeker. I have absolutely nothing to say about your situation in terms of advice and I surely wish I did. The complexity of the issues you are describing are far beyond my pay grade.

I'm just here to say I'm sincerely sorry for the turmoil you're suffering through - that I find you to be a remarkably strong, sensitive and compassionate person and that I truly wish you luck.

What a wretched state to have to face every day - courage, mate.

Thank you so much to you both. Your support means the world to me

Today she called and we talked. She kept complaining about her life and I kept offering her solutions, suggestions... She shot them down everytime. She said with her age there's nothing she can do. I told her about going to see a psychologist again. She said "what's the use, you went yourself and you're still depressed" I told her it has to be a continuous process (I've stopped going for a year now) to work. She said "well, why don't you go back" and I said "I will, soon. But we're talking about you here. Why are you diverting your attention towards me?" and she said "If you get better, I'll get better. You being like this makes me even worse."

The thing is, I always feel so much more depressed when we talk. She rarely has anything positive to say. It's always to complain about her life, about money (lack thereof), about my mom, about the world, about everything. She keeps repeating "I'm too old, I have no options left, you are young, you don't understand. I don't get what your problems are at all. You have your entire life ahead of you and you can do everything. I can't." When I try to tell her she does, she just finds more excuses not to do anything to bring herself off that path. I told her that's what a depressive mind is like, you see no solutions, but she didn't want to hear. She's refusing outright to get better and she's dragging me and everyone else down with her.

I took journeynow's advice and contacted 911. They went to her house and she basically acted like nothing was wrong, saying she had been at a very bad place at the time but that she was better now and wouldn't do it again. They couldn't do anything against her will, and because she showed to be in absolute control of her emotions, had coherent speech, etc., there was nothing they could do but leave her with a warning to contact them if it ever crossed her mind again to end her own life or harm herself in any way. They told me to do the same, even if it felt like everything was fine now, I should stay alert.

What bothers me is that I'm powerless. There's nothing more I can do. No one can help me. And sometimes I just feel like this isn't real. Before, i didn't think she'd be able to do it. She said so many times "I would want to just end it all, I thought about it so many times, but I don't have the courage to do so." Now, I think that day only draws near and I can't do anything to avoid it... I don't know what else to do...

You are not powerless. Don't engage when she complains, which includes NOT offering solutions to her Woe-Is-Me speech. You engaged, don't do that. Just say "I love you, I have to go now, Bye" and hang up. You can't fix her, that is not your job, your job is to take care of you. Taking care of you is your power. When she mentions suicide TELL HER you are calling 911 for her, AND DO IT. That is your power.

yes, she is torturing you, i also think it's highly unlikely she is actually attempting to kill herself.

apart from 911, you can alert her local mental health community and inform them that she is threatening suicide, but that you are not certain how serious she is about that. they might pay her a visit, they might not, but it's pivotal you stop taking the potential outcomes of her actions upon yourself.

other than that, you absolutely need to go back to therapy to learn how to stop the enmeshment with such family members. the fact that you answer and entertain such calls daily, while not surprising in such a family dynamics, is a definite sign you need help differentiating your role from theirs.

Mood disorders tend to run in families. Take care of yourself with doctors and therapy and distance yourself from the manipulative, guilt-tripping behaviors of others.

Some information from the NIMH

"Family History: Bipolar disorder tends to run in families. Children with a parent or sibling who has bipolar disorder are much more likely to develop the illness, compared with children who do not have a family history of the disorder. However, it is important to note that most people with a family history of bipolar disorder will not develop the illness".

While you're right and I think she might be incapable of doing it, I can't find it in myself not to care. What if she goes through with it? That would destroy me. I already feel guilty enough for not being able to be the same person I am with everyone (cheerful, upbeat, always smiling) with her because I just feel so empty, so drained, around her. It's like she sucks everything good in me. Granted, I don't think she does it on purpose but it still is an awful feeling. I can't even bring myself to smile or joke around her. I'm mostly a shell of myself when I'm with her.

I think it's because of her hypercritical personality. I just learned not to tell her about anything in case she found faults in it. Like, if she asks me about my day, I won't tell her I went shopping because then she will say "Why are you spending money? You have enough clothes! Be more conscious of your money, you need to save up." Even the most positive, harmless things like "I went with [my boyfriend] to this event" will lead her to practically interrupt me to say "[insert sigh] I used to go out all the time when I was younger. But now I'm old and alone and no one will take me anywhere. I wish I could go here and there, do this and that, but I live here and I hate it and I can't leave because gas costs money and I need that money to pay up my debts. And I can't leave your mom and her business. How would she support herself? If I could, I'd sell my house today and just disappear! And then you'd all miss me!"

See what I mean? How can I ever feel like having any type of conversation with her when she's such a downer? When everything I say is a reason for her to bring something unpleasant up? Sometimes I will just let her talk and talk. But then she complains I don't say anything and she doesn't enjoy monologues. I literally have no idea how to deal with her.

She keeps saying I don't make an effort, she's the only one who does. And if I did, we'd be so much happier. If that were true, then why do I feel so drained? Why does she feel so exhausting?

Our relationship is a rollercoaster: when she hits rock bottom, we have a big fight where we cry and scream, and I start making an effort of being nicer and caring more. Things are okay for a while but then I feel she kind of takes advantage of it. So I hit the brakes again and she complains again and threatens to leave/kill herself/etc. Like I said, part of me knows this might just be part of a show. But the other part of me recognizes the absolute despair she might be going through, and this is her way of dealing with it.

You're right, I do want to start taking care of myself. But she won't let me. If I distance myself, she only pulls harder. If I'm there, she keeps twisting. She mistakes my distance for not caring, not loving her, etc. When I'm just trying to live my life without all the drama. Also, I'm unemployed now so I can't afford therapy. However, I felt I was dealing with it really well until this happened.

RainyCoast, I will see if there's such a place in our hometown. It's a small town so there's very few options when it comes to mental health. My aunt was pretty upset about me calling 911 by the way. She didn't want anyone else to know about her issues and accused me of, once again, making her someone else's problem. This is a repeated offense on my part, it seems. When I tell her to talk to her friends about her issues instead of just me, she goes ballistic and says I don't care about her or her problems, and why would she bother "outside people" when they have enough on their plates. Apparently, because I'm family, that doesn't apply to me.

What bothers me the most is that sometimes she's so caring and understanding and genuinely concerned for my well-being. Then other times she's just like "ME, ME, ME and everything about ME". Things that have nothing to do with her are suddenly personal attacks that she can't stand.

She says she loves listening to me and to what I have to say, but then can barely wait for her moment to talk and rant on things for hours (if allowed).

I honestly wonder if she doesn't have a serious mental illness like bipolar disorder, as that is what it feels like I'm dealing with sometimes. One moment she's so down it feels like she's dying, then on the next minute she's stronger than ever and bulldozing everything ahead of her. There's no in-between...

oh, if it's a small town maybe look up a regional community. depending on where you live, they may be under the auspices of social services so might want to check the affiliations on SS webpage. they make home visits to pts in remote areas sometimes. worth looking into.

also, perhaps ask the nearest healthcare provider if it's okay to ring up the psychiatrist-on-duty in such cases (if the town healthcare provider doesn't have one, it's usually the nearest hospital). we've had to do it with a schizophrenic neighbor in my building, when she was having problems in the lobby in the middle of the night. if she has an official diagnosis, tell them that too. it may help justify a home visit.

i would check if social services have a clause where you can't use clinical social services (like family crisis management or free family or individual counseling for family problems) if you're not using direct social services (such as benefits or housing. if unemployed, you can file for benefits to then also qualify for counseling if direct services are a requirement for that). maybe you can get free counseling to learn how to not let this ruin you so much. they have volunteer groups as well for laypeople to offer sort of peer support, like a support group but without the membership fee.

oh, if it's a small town maybe look up a regional community. depending on where you live, they may be under the auspices of social services so might want to check the affiliations on SS webpage. they make home visits to pts in remote areas sometimes. worth looking into.

 

also, perhaps ask the nearest healthcare provider if it's okay to ring up the psychiatrist-on-duty in such cases (if the town healthcare provider doesn't have one, it's usually the nearest hospital). we've had to do it with a schizophrenic neighbor in my building, when she was having problems in the lobby in the middle of the night. if she has an official diagnosis, tell them that too. it may help justify a home visit.

 

i would check if social services have a clause where you can't use clinical social services (like family crisis management or free family or individual counseling for family problems) if you're not using direct social services (such as benefits or housing. if unemployed, you can file for benefits to then also qualify for counseling if direct services are a requirement for that). maybe you can get free counseling to learn how to not let this ruin you so much. they have volunteer groups as well for laypeople to offer sort of peer support, like a support group but without the membership fee.

Thank you, RainyCoast, that is actually tremendously helpful! Sometimes we're just not aware of the options and our brain just makes it even harder to see they exist. I will definitely try what you suggested and see if it helps. At this point, any improvement is welcome, even if I have to fight my aunt to get it...

To be honest, I'm so scared and anxious right now I feel paralyzed. But you guys are being so incredibly supportive and it makes things seem a little less bleak. Because I can't afford therapy, I was starting to think I wouldn't be able to get through this. I have a bit of social anxiety so I don't know if volunteer groups would be an option, but I will see about the benefits situation.

My aunt has insurance and she's tried two psychologists so far, which she "didn't like". Went to one session with them. Still, I was so relieved she had heeded my advice (this was last month). However, she seems to have completely given up now, and I don't know how I can force her to go or accept one if indeed one is appointed to her/comes to her house. We'll see.

i know this type of family from personal and vicarious experience, it's so damaging.

i actually was able to work as a volunteer when my social anxiety was at it's worst. something about people in need made me feel equity, we were in the same boat almost, so they weren't frightening if that makes sense. and there being no judgement helped. peer support can be similar. you can ask the program coordinator to introduce you, and see how you feel and if you want to come back. it's so informal and friendly, and i like it that unlike in some support groups, the focus isn't on moping about problems, it's on support. ironically, i have been to one support group and didn't like it much because it was so problem focused. i'm inclined to solution focused, or support focused. i hope the support group i've been to isn't how they all are, some folks here say they love theirs.

yes!! i live in europe and thought it was just here, but it seems to be a problem everywhere that there are so many options people don't know about, and don't even know where to look. people on here have told me they had no clue there are clinical social workers who can handle mental health problems?? those hotlines, i don't know how helpful they are but you see them advertised everywhere- so how come we can't let people know hey, no sweat if you can't afford therapy and family counseling, we're here to help with your distress regardless. lol, sorry, i get a little passionate about it almost seeming like mental health and stability in the home is a privilege of the well-off, while it isn't and shouldn't be as austerity, low social standing and psychological distress go hand in hand so often.

hang around, it's tough living like this having only yourself to rely on.

i know this type of family from personal and vicarious experience, it's so damaging.

 

i actually was able to work as a volunteer when my social anxiety was at it's worst. something about people in need made me feel equity, we were in the same boat almost, so they weren't frightening if that makes sense. and there being no judgement helped. peer support can be similar. you can ask the program coordinator to introduce you, and see how you feel and if you want to come back. it's so informal and friendly, and i like it that unlike in some support groups, the focus isn't on moping about problems, it's on support. ironically, i have been to one support group and didn't like it much because it was so problem focused. i'm inclined to solution focused, or support focused. i hope the support group i've been to isn't how they all are, some folks here say they love theirs.

 

yes!! i live in europe and thought it was just here, but it seems to be a problem everywhere that there are so many options people don't know about, and don't even know where to look. people on here have told me they had no clue there are clinical social workers who can handle mental health problems?? those hotlines, i don't know how helpful they are but you see them advertised everywhere- so how come we can't let people know hey, no sweat if you can't afford therapy and family counseling, we're here to help with your distress regardless. lol, sorry, i get a little passionate about it almost seeming like mental health and stability in the home is a privilege of the well-off, while it isn't and shouldn't be as austerity, low social standing and psychological distress go hand in hand so often.

 

hang around, it's tough living like this having only yourself to rely on.

Thank you so much! I'm sorry you had to go through something like this... I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy How did you manage to pull through?

You're right, we do see a lot of those advertised but I guess because we weren't previously in that situation, we just ignored them like most things in the background. I fail to remember so many things (I've been told this a side effect of depression) even though I've probably been through them already, so thank you for reminding me. After a quick internet search I found several hotlines that might be useful. I don't know if my aunt will use them but I will present them to her, either way. You're right, I don't know if they'll be helpful or not but it's already a great relief to have that hope, at least.

I'm the same way. I can't stand talking about the issues, I want to discuss solutions, plans, etc.! I've never volunteered with people, only with animals. It was something I forced myself to do for the first time four years ago, when I fell apart over a failed relationship. It was very therapeutic. But I've never tried actual group counseling. I will look into it, although I'm pretty terrified of getting into one. I just feel very uncomfortable sharing my issues with others, even close friends. Probably no one but my boyfriend knows I have depression. I feel like everyone I know will judge me for it. I know it's a stupid thought but I always give the impression of being very strong and unemotional, and I rarely show my fragility. I'm also scared of finding people I know there, if that makes sense. Like I said, it's a small town...

if you try a peer group or volunteer activity of some kind, the good thing is you're not under pressure to reveal much. i've heard people just start off by saying "i'm working through some personal stuff right now and this environment seems like it could lift my spirits". then, some continue to share more, or everything, or as little as they want, some make friends there and then they also turn mutual confidants.

a program coordinator at a mental health community or social services can tell you what kinds of groups they have, i would ask. you can also email them if it's easier than talking about it all face to face. off location programs and communities have such a casual air about them, it's not like you're at a doctors office or talking to clerks. it's easier that way for most people.

i moved away as soon as was possible and that helped some. i learned when not to take a call. in my case, the person was drinking so heavily, sometimes passing out for two days, so i feared for their safety. it wasn't easy in the least, and it's not like i'm not showing signs of damage. it's horrible because either you sink, or they sink. where there's fusion in the family, we believe that one person would not be able to survive without the support of the other and here we take support to mean complete self-sacrifice, and of course it isn't. realistically, if the other wouldn't survive, it would be because of their choices- and those we have neither the responsibility nor the right to meddle with if they are clearly declining help.

in my case, they all died. prematurely usually, due to their choice of lifestyle. i still feel low-key guilt about it, but it doesn't rule me, i know it's not justified, and that i had no way to save them from the results of their choices, even if it were my job to do so.

yeah, doubt she'll look into it, but you can give her the numbers. then next time she whines on the phone you can say sorry but i'm at work, i don't want you living like this, i think you should call the numbers i gave you as they are qualified to help. if she keeps rejecting (and she will) these offers, then it's clearly her choice whatever happens as a result.

if you won't be able to find groups to your liking, check clinical social workers anyway. that would basically be free therapy, so i hope they don't require anything but "family/personal distress" for clients to qualify. you can also outright tell them you're sick of whining, especially as you have negative people in your family who don't do anything other than that, and that you prefer an active solution-focused approach and are open to suggestions if they have any. methinks they'd love to set up an appointment as often they practice choice theory/reality therapy, which is extremely solution-oriented and doesn't require you to talk about your troubling childhood and such, just your present situation and the choices available to improve it. so it's also less emotionally draining for people that they don't have to go all deep into their old trauma, childhood stuff and similar. not everyone finds it a relief to talk about those things.

Mood disorders tend to run in families. Take care of yourself with doctors and therapy and distance yourself from the manipulative, guilt-tripping behaviors of others.

 

Some information from the NIMH

 

"Family History: Bipolar disorder tends to run in families. Children with a parent or sibling who has bipolar disorder are much more likely to develop the illness, compared with children who do not have a family history of the disorder. However, it is important to note that most people with a family history of bipolar disorder will not develop the illness".

Everyone in my close family seems to have some sort of mental instability. Both my mom and my dad are incredibly neurotic/nervous people. My dad also drank heavily while we were still living together. My aunt is probably bipolar or something similar. Maybe it's her chronic depression speaking, but maybe it's more serious than that.

My mom might be somewhere in the autism spectrum. I don't know how severely or even if at all since she was never properly diagnosed. Of course we never told her she might have autism but we've tried to get her some professional help and she has always refused, saying she's fine. The reason I say this is because, for an adult, she's extremely codependent and seems unable to do much by herself. If it weren't for my stepdad, I don't know how she'd handle life. She can't take care of her own business (relies on my aunt for that), can't do simple math, a lot of things confuse her, she can't even work most appliances or technology like her TV. She can't even place the batteries on the remote correctly. She's also extremely anti-social and has zero confrontational skills, which I guess I have learned that from her.

A lot of what she's going through right now I think might have been a result of my dad's ongoing verbal and emotional abuse. I don't remember a single time when they were happy and they were constantly yelling at each other. My father also had many other women while still married to my mom and spent most of his time away. I usually saw him in the morning and sometimes at night. She also has thyroid problems, which I know causes brain fog and other terrible symptoms.

I do realize I've inherited all these traits from them and it makes me incredibly bitter. While I know it's not their fault, I wish they could have made things easier for me, at least in the first few years of my life. Starting to have panic attacks at age 12 is not at all normal. I also had a hard time socializing with kids when I was younger, hated school and was happiest when I was left alone drawing and/or reading.