Wife if Running Up Debts

I need some advise please. First a bit of back story: early this year my wife of 5 years (female 29) racked up a load of debt on a credit card and in the end got a large loan to pay for it. I (male 30) found out when I went through out bank statements and found the money going in then straight out

She told me that she had gotten rid of the credit car, however after not trusting something she said about a transaction I went through her phone and her banking app and found that she was using her credit card. At the time I didn't say anything because I went through her banking app and found it, just thought she would stop and clear it.

Now today she tells me that she is changing banks because of a better deal etc etc. something didn't sit right with me so again I went through her phone and found that she has paid off her credit card with another loan amount!! I don't know what to do?! How do I start a conversation about it when I'm going to have to tell her that I found it by going through her phone? i feel like I can't trust her, like she has betrayed out marriage by getting us into more debt that we originally had.

You can't trust her. And I assure you she wont learn any lesson until it crashes down on her.

You're in a pickle due to the way you found out, and when you do confront her, it will become a battle over what you did going through her things. Good luck steering clear of that one. Me, I'd be concerned about the willing deceitfulness and how to move past that.

I don't really have any advice other than you are going to need to own up to going through her phone and confront her. I wouldn't expect her to care about your stance on the debt. She's already has shown your feelings on the subject don't matter to her.

I just want to say that I know a man who divorced his wife for the very same reason. In order for this to work your wife is going to need to be totally transparent in her financial dealings. That is the agreement that she needs to make with you. You can try to work with her....but personally, I would not even try. What she does affects you dramatically, and I would bail..... chi

Yikes. Sorry to hear this. Being married means both of you are responsible for each other's financial activity and both debt and assets are shared.

What are these expenditures? Mindless shopping addiction? Gambling problem? Cash for drugs? When money goes missing, you need to know why.

Hopefully you both sit down with your accountant and get a financial planner as well as sit down with the bankers about your finances. Check your credit score and what's on there.

Ask her what these expenditures and loans are all about. You needn't go through her phone. You are married so check your credit and banking statements.

my wife of 5 years racked up a load of debt on a credit card and in the end got a large loan to pay for it. I went through her phone and her banking app and found that she was using her credit card. she has paid off her credit card with another loan amount! i feel like I can't trust her, like she has betrayed out marriage by getting us into more debt that we originally had.

You are married, so why are you sneaking around when you should be looking at what's going on with your mutual finances openly.

If she tells you she wants to move accounts, get a loan, etc - you need to sit down and openly discuss what it's about, what it's for, what's going on. This applies even she is proposing to do it in her name only simply because it will still affect you as a spouse regardless.

Honestly, this isn't about trust or betrayal, this is marriage. Sh$t happens and you are supposed to be a team and work it out. If she has problems, you need to know about it and be there to help her climb out of it and vice versus. This also means that she has to be able to come to you and talk about it and you need to be capable of listening and taking in bad news without going down an accusatory emotional path of "you've betrayed me". If you do react like that, your marriage and every relationship will end up circling the drain after awhile because a person who will never ever eff up or make a mistake about something doesn't exist.

So you handle this by sitting down with her and going over all the details of your mutual finances in a straightforward manner. Why do you carry debt? How much? What is it for? What's your monthly combined income and expenses. Make a budget - necessities, fun money, money set aside to pay off debts, money set aside for savings. If you are going to end up arguing, get a professional involved instead. Go to a good accountant and let them work out a budget and advise you both on how to manage things. Finances is one thing in marriage where you both have to be open and actively involved. Even if one person is doing the bill paying, because they are good like that, you both need to sit down on a regular basis and go over your finances, accounts, where you are at with what. You both need to know and more importantly develop a plan for your future - savings, major purchases, retirement, etc. You are in it for the long run, so you need to work together and plan and discuss and pay attention accordingly.

Also, if she is spending money compulsively, you need to know and she needs help. As in therapy. While she is getting help, you will need to take over financial management. Again, that's what being a team is about. When one is down, the other steps up.

You are married, so why are you sneaking around when you should be looking at what's going on with your mutual finances openly.

 

If she tells you she wants to move accounts, get a loan, etc - you need to sit down and openly discuss what it's about, what it's for, what's going on. This applies even she is proposing to do it in her name only simply because it will still affect you as a spouse regardless.

 

Honestly, this isn't about trust or betrayal, this is marriage. Sh$t happens and you are supposed to be a team and work it out. If she has problems, you need to know about it and be there to help her climb out of it and vice versus. This also means that she has to be able to come to you and talk about it and you need to be capable of listening and taking in bad news without going down an accusatory emotional path of "you've betrayed me". If you do react like that, your marriage and every relationship will end up circling the drain after awhile because a person who will never ever eff up or make a mistake about something doesn't exist.

 

So you handle this by sitting down with her and going over all the details of your mutual finances in a straightforward manner. Why do you carry debt? How much? What is it for? What's your monthly combined income and expenses. Make a budget - necessities, fun money, money set aside to pay off debts, money set aside for savings. If you are going to end up arguing, get a professional involved instead. Go to a good accountant and let them work out a budget and advise you both on how to manage things. Finances is one thing in marriage where you both have to be open and actively involved. Even if one person is doing the bill paying, because they are good like that, you both need to sit down on a regular basis and go over your finances, accounts, where you are at with what. You both need to know and more importantly develop a plan for your future - savings, major purchases, retirement, etc. You are in it for the long run, so you need to work together and plan and discuss and pay attention accordingly.

 

Also, if she is spending money compulsively, you need to know and she needs help. As in therapy. While she is getting help, you will need to take over financial management. Again, that's what being a team is about. When one is down, the other steps up.

She's not giving him the chance to be mutual. She is lying and hiding.

It's really difficult because the reason she got a load of debt in the first place on the credit card was because she planned a surprise trip for my birthday to Las Vegas, so when I found out about the loan i was angry but couldn't really go to town because of what she had planned. I was more angry that she had been saving for months towards it and obviously wasn't.

But as I said when I went through her phone and found that she was using her credit card I dropped enough hints and questions about her spending to give her a chance to own up but never did. It isn't gambling or drugs, it's just unnecessary spending the sort of stuff if you don't have the money for you don't buy! And I know the first argument will be over me going through her phone, even through the whole thing is wrong.

We have a joint account together, that's for food, fuel and anything generally. We also have a bills account that both our wages are paying into and pay the bills. But I get £300 out of my wages that go into savings, £150 that's for my personal spend. She has exactly that same but the credit card was in her name only so it doesn't show on my account. And like I said out the blue she is just telling that she's changing bank incase I find the card or some correspondence and start asking. However I now know that she has taken a loan with this other bank to pay the credit card off

Wow. Yes you two need to sit down with an accountant and financial planner to work out something better than needing loans to pay off credit cards. You're married, all assets and debts are mutual and your credit score will be in the toilet if she keeps this up to hide her spending..

Talk to her straight up about saving, spending, budgeting, credit scores and shopping addictions/nonsense spending.

She has exactly that same but the credit card was in her name only so it doesn't show on my account. And like I said out the blue she is just telling that she's changing bank incase I find the card or some correspondence and start asking. However I now know that she has taken a loan with this other bank to pay the credit card off

Well taking out a loan at the bank is much often better than the 24%+ APR on most credit cards. The issue is she's gone off before and only done it simply to clear up her available balance on the credit card.

I don't agree with snooping, but what I don't understand is why you'd do it if you're not willing to follow through with findings. Bottom line is you found out. There's deceit on both ends between you invading her privacy and her lying to you. Really, if I had to weigh the two evils, the fact she could financially sink you puts her miles ahead in my book. So just confront her. Suggest flat out that you both receive financial counseling. Don't join yourself to any of her cards, loans, or other debts.

In addition to suggesting the financial counseling, I'd recommend consulting with a divorce / family attorney. No idea what UK law dictates with regard to shared debts, prenups, and community property law, but you need to figure out how best to protect your future. Not saying you need to divorce her, but you should seek out some real legal advice as to how best to protect yourself.

It's really difficult because the reason she got a load of debt in the first place on the credit card was because she planned a surprise trip for my birthday to Las Vegas, so when I found out about the loan i was angry but couldn't really go to town because of what she had planned. I was more angry that she had been saving for months towards it and obviously wasn't.

 

But as I said when I went through her phone and found that she was using her credit card I dropped enough hints and questions about her spending to give her a chance to own up but never did. It isn't gambling or drugs, it's just unnecessary spending the sort of stuff if you don't have the money for you don't buy! And I know the first argument will be over me going through her phone, even through the whole thing is wrong.

Like I said, no need to get into that. You know she is taking out a loan, you know she wants to move accounts. That is your launching pad for asking questions and starting a serious conversation about your mutual spending.

If she didn't save up for the Las Vegas trip and instead took out a loan, again this is not about getting angry, this is your chance to discuss how you two are living, including being HONEST with each other. Right now, you are both being dishonest equally.

She didn't save, but then took a loan out rather than let you down or tell you the trip won't be happening. You didn't appreciate it, but went along with it instead of putting a stop to it in a NICE constructive manner. You BOTH have to figure out how to communicate. You keep writing about getting angry, didn't want to pick a fight, etc. You are right that you shouldn't do that, BUT you SHOULD be communicating. You are posting here because you don't know how to sit down and start talking about money.

So, if you are uncomfortable and do not feel comfortable addressing this, then you need to tell her very simply that you are concerned with your finances and would like to do some budgeting and future planning and so have scheduled an appointment for the two of you with an accountant for x date and time and you need her to be there. Let him be the bad guy for you and tell him ahead of time that your wife has a spending problem. Let him flush it out for you.

As a side note, if my SO took out a loan for a trip, I'd lose my mind and cancel everything and get as much money back as I could. Then we would have a very long and serious conversation about money, savings, expenditures and how that will work going forward, as well as repaying the loan from the refunds and whatever left asap. In your case, you weren't happy, but you chose to go along with it and now you are resenting it. That's not healthy and not a good way to manage finances. She messed up, but you are not taking any responsibility either. By staying quiet and going along with things, you are condoning her behavior and you shouldn't be.

Why is she hiding her spending? Is there a huge income disparity? Does she spend "her money" or joint money?

Like I said, no need to get into that. You know she is taking out a loan, you know she wants to move accounts. That is your launching pad for asking questions and starting a serious conversation about your mutual spending.

 

If she didn't save up for the Las Vegas trip and instead took out a loan, again this is not about getting angry, this is your chance to discuss how you two are living, including being HONEST with each other. Right now, you are both being dishonest equally.

 

She didn't save, but then took a loan out rather than let you down or tell you the trip won't be happening. You didn't appreciate it, but went along with it instead of putting a stop to it in a NICE constructive manner. You BOTH have to figure out how to communicate. You keep writing about getting angry, didn't want to pick a fight, etc. You are right that you shouldn't do that, BUT you SHOULD be communicating. You are posting here because you don't know how to sit down and start talking about money.

 

So, if you are uncomfortable and do not feel comfortable addressing this, then you need to tell her very simply that you are concerned with your finances and would like to do some budgeting and future planning and so have scheduled an appointment for the two of you with an accountant for x date and time and you need her to be there. Let him be the bad guy for you and tell him ahead of time that your wife has a spending problem. Let him flush it out for you.

 

As a side note, if my SO took out a loan for a trip, I'd lose my mind and cancel everything and get as much money back as I could. Then we would have a very long and serious conversation about money, savings, expenditures and how that will work going forward, as well as repaying the loan from the refunds and whatever left asap. In your case, you weren't happy, but you chose to go along with it and now you are resenting it. That's not healthy and not a good way to manage finances. She messed up, but you are not taking any responsibility either. By staying quiet and going along with things, you are condoning her behavior and you shouldn't be.

No I didn't know about the trip it was a surprise. I found out a few months after that she couldn't afford it and had gotten the loan. And yes you are right, I dont know how to start the conversation. Other than to say it straight out that i knew she was spending on the card and didn't trust her and went through her phone. I guess that's just the way this will go "I went through your phone and found your new loan, let's talk about it!"

No I didn't know about the trip it was a surprise. I found out a few months after that she couldn't afford it and had gotten the loan. And yes you are right, I dont know how to start the conversation. Other than to say it straight out that i knew she was spending on the card and didn't trust her and went through her phone. I guess that's just the way this will go "I went through your phone and found your new loan, let's talk about it!"

Ummm......how about "Babe, about that new bank you want to go to. I'd like to talk about that along with the loan you had taken out for that trip. I think we need to agree to start managing our finances in a different manner. So, how much is that loan? Is there anything else you have outstanding? Understand this is affecting us both. Going forward, please let's not run up debt on trips. If we can't pay for it in cash, we aren't going. So let's make a budget to save towards that kind of stuff together."

"Also, honey, mind meeting with me and an accountant to get some financial guidance and advice so we can work out better what we can and cannot afford, what we can save and how, etc. Thanks."

If you start a conversation with an accusatory tone of "I went through your phone, found sh$t and now I don't trust you" - you aren't having a constructive conversation, you are starting a fight right off the bat and you are right that this kind of a fight will get you nowhere positive. Keep emotions out of your finances.

If she's a compulsive shopper, that's as much a problem as if what she was spending the money on was drugs or gambling.

Honestly, you need to sit her down and tell her you know everything. She needs councelling. She needs to let you be in charge of the house finances. And she needs to be working towards paying this debt off.

The problem is, that people who spend like this will be full of good intentions, but often won't engage seriously with it until they hit rock bottom - threat of, or actually losing a home, bankruptcy, ect...

I'd also speak to a lawyer. Money is one of the top reasons for divorce. You need to know what your options are and how her spending could affect you.

I would like to thank you all for your advise. It's done, her new 'debit card' came through today. She instantly torn up the paperwork and put in the bin, she popped upstairs and I had a look and it was infact a new credit card. So that as it, after reading all your generous advise I knew that was the last straw and I had to do something. Turns out the £2'500 that went on the old card to clear it was a balance transfer from the new card, but she was going to max it out to pay off her shopping credit accounts. Told her I knew everything, that I had found all the evidence about her debts and said that she will financially ruin us at this rate. Told her that she clearly has a problem with spending and it needs to stop. I told her that she will not ruin mine and my daughters future with her uncontrollably spending. I followed all your advise of keeping calm and not angry even though inside I was burning, she gave me all her cards and full access to everything. So know we can sit down and work it out. I feel so much better now it is out and secretly I think she is too. I have told her she needs to talk to someone about her problem.

Thank you all again.

I don't have anything to add except to say I am SHOCKED that any bank would give her a loan to pay off the high debt she has wracked up (and apparently has not been able to pay off).

Her credit score must be down the toilet, so again shocked that any bank would take such a huge risk.

Don't know about the UK, but I would think banks would be even more strict than in the U.S. especially with the UK economy being in such a precarious state now.

And NO bank in the U.S. would EVER take such a huge risk.

So jmo but my spiney senses says something isn't jiving here.

But wish you the best, you're in for a tough road for awhile I'm afraid.

Wow all the deception. Yes she's got a shopping addiction and putting you and your daughter's future at risk. Definitely check your credit rating and bank accounts. Make sure she's not taking loans against your house etc.

her new 'debit card' came through today. I had a look and it was infact a new credit card. Turns out the £2'500 that went on the old card to clear it was a balance transfer from the new card, but she was going to max it out to pay off her shopping credit accounts. I told her that she will not ruin mine and my daughters future with her uncontrollably spending. I have told her she needs to talk to someone about her problem.

Good for you Harby! As stop gap measure, I would get an immediate appointment with a financial planner.

Do you know that what your wife is doing with the hidden credit cards and charges is another form of cheating, known as financial infidelity. If you search on the term, you'll quickly realize it's even more serious than sexual infidelity, and situations where one partner is a secret or overt spender lead to divorce more often than the old fashioned types of cheating.

My marriage failed for this very reason.

Either she reigns it in, or the two of you might be headed for divorce, and if you're considering it as an option you might want to do it sooner rather than later because debt doesn't usually get better in situations such as this one.

Edited to add. I saw your last post and it appears you are addressing the issue and your wife is responsive. Good, but you must remain vigilant. My exwife used to blow smoke up my a$$ and tell me that she too, was controlling her spending and I believe she really tried but the cycles of spending continued until we finally split for good.

I have told her she needs to talk to someone about her problem.

I was happy to hear the outcome with the exception of this statement.

I think that you both need to consult with a financial planner and she independently needs to consult with a addiction specialist of some kind. She needs to be totally transparent about her financial dealings going forward, and I think that your signature should be required on and contracts.

How you go about remedying this matter is critical to your marriage and family. chi