How can I discover if my roommate is sexually attracted w/out ruining friendship

Hi all, I'm new here but have lurked for a while and am pleased to be among such great company and wise people.

I'll just come out with it. I'm looking for the "perfect way to find out" if my friend and roommate wants to have sex with me, without asking outright and ruining everything.

Some sort of tip or trick that will give me the answer without jeopardizing one iota of the friendship. Mind-reading would come in very handy here. Or a great technique you may know.

Backstory:

I'm married. Read on! I'm a guy aged 39 and my best friend of the past year - and roommate of the past 2 months – is a female aged 24. It may sound like a strange fit but we met at work and we just get on great. I'm usually the only one she wants to hang out with after work. We go out to dinner and just "shoot the s***" together, and often have hysterics. Then we go home and watch movies. She rarely dates. Maybe once a month. She "hasn't got time for that" and just "can't be bothered".

Then we go to bed. In separate rooms. Because I'm married. And my wife often is away. Yes, she lives with me and my wife. As an aside, my wife and I are open to these things, however our best friend does not know that and my wife does not want her to know, so I cannot mention it. I know that sounds weird but this message would be twice as long if I explained. Rest assured, there are good reasons that will make sense. But long story short, nobody would be hurt. I just have to find out without disrespecting my wife's wishes, and without hurting the friendship.

My big conundrum is this:

- Is the friend sexually interested but holding back out of respect to my wife (not knowing it'd be OK)?

- Or is the friend not sexually interested and I should just move on from that train of thought?

Why it matters is because I know myself, my wiring, and I have always had the battle between being the 21st century man with wisdom and intellect, and that molecular remnant in the lizard part of our brains that comes from the stone age caveman who just wanted to reproduce to maximize his DNA out there in the world but doesn't realize why. Long story short, I am highly highly sexed, high testosterone, and so finding myself living with two women is something that is great on so many levels, but also on one level, absolutely torture. I've tried self-counselling over the past 6 weeks and occasionally manage to let it go, then the friend does something and I find I cannot sleep through thinking about this.

So there we have 2 attractive people both wanting/needing sex, living together but not having sex. Then craving sex.

I consider myself a very good reader of people, and have a keen interest in psychology, but I just can't figure my friend out. We have had 1 or 2 flirtatious moments after 4 beers, in the hot tub. She shows body language signs of interest, is tactile, we hug a lot (though that started to feel "dangerous" so we've both pulled back on that), when we've gone on day trips alone together we've even jokingly pretended to be married. But I just can't believe she'd be interested – I guess because of my wife in the equation. I'm thinking for my friend, I guess, and concluding "the best" for her thoughts.

Example: She says "I'm really horny at the moment" then texts a guy to tell him to be ready. That's fine by me, I don't feel jealous and I give her advice. We're friends! Then she follows up saying "I need a boy". I foolishly replied drunk, "Me and Floyd [the dog] are boys, just saying!" with a laugh. She laughed back, then got out and said she was going for a shower, but pronounced it, "Shower... shawer... share... share!" We were home alone together, needless to say. I realized that I wasn't sure enough of her wording, and I deduced that she couldn't possibly have meant share the shower because she knows my wife will be back in an hour. (I'm a poet...) But I did go into the house and the friend was already showered and dressed and just walking around doing her regular chores and ritual without one iota of flirtation. I was convinced I was imagining it all. I'm still sure I was.

There have been other moments like that.

My greatest fear:

If I ask her in any clear way, she will laugh and say "GOD NO" and things would never be the same.

So there it is. Can anyone think of a perfect way to find out what is in her head, without asking her? Some loophole or magical phrase or board game (!) or stealthy scheme or covert mind trick or... see I'm stretching because I just don't know. And that's where I need you guys. But I do know that if I ask her, it would forever taint the friendship if she answered negatively.

The best I have come up with is say:

"Would you feel okay talking about having sex with me?"

Then if she said, "God no", I'd reply:

"WAIT! Let me rephrase that! Would you feel okay talking about "having sex", with me. Talking, with me, about having sex. I need some sex advice about my wife! God sorry. That came out backwards!"

But that's not good enough.

Thank you so much in advance.

Did you invite her to live with you and your wife for the purpose of threesomes/polyamory? If so and she's not aware it sounds like a trick.

I'm a guy aged 39 and my best friend of the past year - and roommate of the past 2 months .she lives with me and my wife. As an aside, my wife and I are open to these things, however our best friend does not know that and my wife does not want her to know

I knew before we asked her that wasn't an option as my wife does not want threesomes, only the sharing me part is OK. In other words she's not into women, but understands our modern and free wishes. So, no. (Though in my mind, the option would be nice, so if I'm honest the thought was there.) But that wasn't the intention. I genuinely love having the friend around and just hanging out. Truly great friend.

I am trying to understand this, so maybe you can explain it some more?

"As an aside, my wife and I are open to these things, however our best friend does not know that and my wife does not want her to know, so I cannot mention it"

So, if your wife doesn't want this "friend" to know that you two are in an open marriage, what difference would you knowing that your "friend" is interested in having sex with you make? Your wife clearly has a reason for not wanting this woman to know about you two being open, which means only one thing: that she doesn't want you screwing this woman, nor is she open to a threesome with you and this woman. So even if you were to find out that the woman wants to have sex with you, what do you intend to do with this info? Clearly you can't tell the wife about it...so is your intention to screw this woman behind your wife's back? Meaning, to cheat?

It would be one thing if your wife was ok with involving this woman in your life sexually and would be open to a sexual triangle with her, but she's not. You have a good thing going, so why ruin it by opening Pandora's box, which would only lead to drama and a huge mess?

The best I have come up with is say:

"Would you feel okay talking about having sex with me?"

Then if she said, "God no", I'd reply:

"WAIT! Let me rephrase that! Would you feel okay talking about "having sex", with me. Talking, with me, about having sex. I need some sex advice about my wife! God sorry. That came out backwards!"

Okay, seeing as you seem to know how weird and confusing this situation is, I'm going to do my best to withhold judgment and not tell you that you're insane for this living arrangement, etc. I do, however, want to know why your wife is often away, and how you came to agree that it's okay for you to sleep with people. I also find it super weird that your 24-year-old co-worker lives in a home with you and your wife and everyone's just happy about that arrangement. But whatever floats your boat, I guess. Sounds like a mess. I'm confused on how you came to an agreement with your wife that you can have an "open" relationship but she lays down a boundary that says you can't tell that to anyone else. How is it that you expect to have an open relationship if you can't be open?

Regardless, you're right. The above method is not the right way to go about it. The easiest way would be to be able to tell your "best friend" that you do have an open relationship with your wife and you find her attractive. There's no right answer here, I don't think it's going to be a situation where no one gets hurt and nothing gets ruined if you pursue it. Good luck.

Why did this woman move in? Is she living there free? Is she foreign? Did she need a place? It sounds like you (and your wife?) tricked her into being your sex outlet when your wife is away but she thinks she's just renting a room? Otherwise you wouldn't be asking how to come on to her because she would know she's there as a sex outlet for you when your wife is away.

I knew before we asked her that wasn't an option as my wife does not want threesomes, only the sharing me part is OK.

I am trying to understand this, so maybe you can explain it some more?

"As an aside, my wife and I are open to these things, however our best friend does not know that and my wife does not want her to know, so I cannot mention it"

 

So, if your wife doesn't want this "friend" to know that you two are in an open marriage, what difference would you knowing that your "friend" is interested in having sex with you make? Your wife clearly has a reason for not wanting this woman to know about you two being open, which means only one thing: that she doesn't want you screwing this woman, nor is she open to a threesome with you and this woman. So even if you were to find out that the woman wants to have sex with you, what do you intend to do with this info? Clearly you can't tell the wife about it...so is your intention to screw this woman behind your wife's back? Meaning, to cheat?

 

It would be one thing if your wife was ok with involving this woman in your life sexually and would be open to a sexual triangle with her, but she's not. You have a good thing going, so why ruin it by opening Pandora's box, which would only lead to drama and a huge mess?

Great question. I didn't explain that bit.

My wife doesn't want anyone to know that we are open. A pride and privacy thing.

But she is OK with sharing me.

We both struggled through the decision mainly due to jealousy. What we came up with was a "don't ask don't tell" policy. She would never ask me if I had sex with someone else, and I would never tell. To all intents and purposes, the understanding of the need is there, but the knowledge never can be.

Now that all works great if I meet someone randomly.

But because I know the friend, it puts me in a difficult position.

I just don't want to disrespect the wife by volunteering that we are open to the friend, when the wife does not want anyone to know, let alone our best friend.

Maybe I will have to just do that, and be honest with the friend. Let it slip at some point.

I'd just rather go around it the other way. Find out what the friend wants FIRST, and THEN tell her my wife's OK with it. It just feels better to put my wife's wishes first. Hope that makes sense!

What Greta said.

Also, I think you've been spending way way way too much time with this girl and as a result started to bond with her and see her in a different light. The problem is that she is 24 and you are 39 and married. She sees you as a safe daddy type figure and the one time that you reminded her that you are a man, even if jokingly, she quickly walked away.

I think you've gone too far with this and you are getting so desperate in your desire for there to be something more....it's getting unhealthy on your part. You can't read her not because you can't read her but because you are not getting what you desire.

Do yourself a favor and take a long step back or better yet, ask the girl to move out. It's become unhealthy for you.

Why did this woman move in? Is she living there free? Is she foreign? Did she need a place? It sounds like you (and your wife?) tricked her into being your sex outlet when your wife is away but she thinks she's just renting a room? Otherwise you wouldn't be asking how to come on to her because she would know she's there as a sex outlet for you when your wife is away.

Lol that's absolutely not correct and I'm sorry if I haven't explained the dynamic perfectly. But no. No no no.

She's a great friend. We both love her and love having her around. She pays rent. She needed a place.

Sorry but this is not "open" it's cheating.

She would never ask me if I had sex with someone else, and I would never tell.

What Greta said.

 

Also, I think you've been spending way way way too much time with this girl and as a result started to bond with her and see her in a different light. The problem is that she is 24 and you are 39 and married. She sees you as a safe daddy type figure and the one time that you reminded her that you are a man, even if jokingly, she quickly walked away.

 

I think you've gone too far with this and you are getting so desperate in your desire for there to be something more....it's getting unhealthy on your part. You can't read her not because you can't read her but because you are not getting what you desire.

 

Do yourself a favor and take a long step back or better yet, ask the girl to move out. It's become unhealthy for you.

You might be right and I have toyed with that possibility.

Asking her to move out isn't an option. Everything is 99% great and her living here is lovely. Imagine living with your best friend and your wife. My wife also gets to live with her best female friend and her husband. In the real world, we won't be suddenly asking her to move out. But I appreciate the protective stance.

Here's the crux. I know she's into older men. I love adult women. She also told me many a time how "bad" she was in college. I am very smart, too smart, and I 70% know that she would be fine carrying on a "f*** buddy" scenario with me. It's just that 30% doubt that I'm misreading it. So really the point of this thread is to get tips on how to find out.

I do appreciate the other advice though. Truly. Maybe I do need to step back. It's possible. I'd just rather know the answer FIRST, and THEN step back. Human nature... or curiosity killing the cat. Still, I am human and the wish is real.

I knew before we asked her that wasn't an option as my wife does not want threesomes, only the sharing me part is OK. In other words she's not into women, but understands our modern and free wishes. So, no. (Though in my mind, the option would be nice, so if I'm honest the thought was there.) But that wasn't the intention. I genuinely love having the friend around and just hanging out. Truly great friend.

OK so sounds like you are polyamorous and keen to venture into a polyamorous relationship (which doesn't require your wife to be into women or threesomes) it can simply involve one or more additional partners whom you may or may not live with.

It certainly sounds like you have a relationship with the housemate and sex doesn't sound unlikely, however I think the most important thing would be to discuss with your wife the possibility of polyamory before approaching your housemate in any way shape or form. Your wife might be uncomfortable with being in such a close arrangement with one of your partners OR she might be open to having a live in gf, there are advantages to that, extra income, less chores etc.

I also imagine that either the housemate has guessed about the open status of your marriage or that she doesn't care in which case tread very carefully.

"my wife does not want her to know"

There ya go. It doesn't matter if your friend is interested in you sexually or not. Your wife doesn't want her to know, which means you can't pursue anything with your friend/roommate, regardless of your open relationship your wife comes first.

Okay, seeing as you seem to know how weird and confusing this situation is, I'm going to do my best to withhold judgment and not tell you that you're insane for this living arrangement, etc. I do, however, want to know why your wife is often away, and how you came to agree that it's okay for you to sleep with people. I also find it super weird that your 24-year-old co-worker lives in a home with you and your wife and everyone's just happy about that arrangement. But whatever floats your boat, I guess. Sounds like a mess. I'm confused on how you came to an agreement with your wife that you can have an "open" relationship but she lays down a boundary that says you can't tell that to anyone else. How is it that you expect to have an open relationship if you can't be open?

 

Regardless, you're right. The above method is not the right way to go about it. The easiest way would be to be able to tell your "best friend" that you do have an open relationship with your wife and you find her attractive. There's no right answer here, I don't think it's going to be a situation where no one gets hurt and nothing gets ruined if you pursue it. Good luck.

Thank you for your insight and kindness.

My wife travels for work.

I should expand: She doesn't want anyone THAT SHE KNOWS knowing that she's into open relationships. Obviously if I met a woman in a bar (doesn't happen) that would be fine to tell that woman either that I'm married and open, or not married.

To your advice, maybe I should just tell her that my wife is OK with sharing me. I have told my friend she is pretty, so I think she knows she is attractive. But if anyone has better ideas I'm "open".

OK so sounds like you are polyamorous and keen to venture into a polyamorous relationship (which doesn't require your wife to be into women or threesomes) it can simply involve one or more additional partners whom you may or may not live with.

 

It certainly sounds like you have a relationship with the housemate and sex doesn't sound unlikely, however I think the most important thing would be to discuss with your wife the possibility of polyamory before approaching your housemate in any way shape or form. Your wife might be uncomfortable with being in such a close arrangement with one of your partners OR she might be open to having a live in gf, there are advantages to that, extra income, less chores etc.

 

I also imagine that either the housemate has guessed about the open status of your marriage or that she doesn't care in which case tread very carefully.

I will always be honest – I think I'm avoiding discussing it with my wife because I think she would say no, given the closeness of the friend in our home. I don't think my wife would be open to having a "sister wife".

I think I am hoping that if the friend is open to it, and the wife and I have the "don't ask don't tell" in place, that I just would not tell. I know I have the capacity for that to be 100% OK from my side, and my wife would be 100% unhurt because she would not know. That is our arrangement.

Obviously as I type that out it doesn't sound right. I know I am being greedy in a sense. Always wanting more. But then again, the more is right there on a plate in front of me. I am being very open in owning that I am human and not perfect.

Well I think you're treading a thin, dangerous line here. If your wife doesn't want anyone she knows to know she's into sharing you, then your 24-year-old super attractive roommate is probably the very last person you should be telling. Maybe you ought to go to bars and pick up strangers instead, and spend less time with your roommate. I don't think anything good can come of sleeping with your roommate, without telling everyone the truth, it's going to create a very awfully awkward situation when your wife does return home.

"my wife does not want her to know"

 

There ya go. It doesn't matter if your friend is interested in you sexually or not. Your wife doesn't want her to know, which means you can't pursue anything with your friend/roommate, regardless of your open relationship your wife comes first.

Almost but not quite. If the friend thought we were having an affair, it would satisfy the wife's wishes of not telling the friend that she is open to sharing me. Very convoluted I know... but technically, OK with everyone. Maybe the friend finds the idea exciting. Win-win. But still frickin weird. I get it. But that's where I am.

It sounds like you want to have sex with the tenant while your wife is out of town and not get in trouble. All the secrecy suggests this isn't open at all "don't ask don't tell" and you don't want the tenant going back a telling your wife either.

To be honest this thread sounds like a giant fantasy about the tenant and how to connive her into sex next time your wife is out of town.

My wife travels for work.

Sorry,but I laughed hard at this. Good one mate.

Well I think you're treading a thin, dangerous line here. If your wife doesn't want anyone she knows to know she's into sharing you, then your 24-year-old super attractive roommate is probably the very last person you should be telling. Maybe you ought to go to bars and pick up strangers instead, and spend less time with your roommate. I don't think anything good can come of sleeping with your roommate, without telling everyone the truth, it's going to create a very awfully awkward situation when your wife does return home.

I know how I am in f-buddy situations and it's really just get the needs out, and they get their needs out, then you both go grab a bite to eat and it's like nothing happened. That's how I envisage it. I don't think the wife coming home would play into that later.

I do see the one and only danger which is the wife finding out because then I've broken the "don't tell" part of our agreement, which was to combat jealousy whilst also respecting high individual physiological sexual needs. But there isn't sneaking around that leads to "finding out" when the other woman already lives in the same house and sleeps in the room next door. At least in theory.

I'd still love a way to find the answer to the question.

You know, honest again, I secretly hope the answer IS "GOD NO". Then I could move away from the thoughts and the apparent flirtation.

It sounds like you want to have sex with the tenant while your wife is out of town and not get in trouble. All the secrecy suggests this isn't open at all "don't ask don't tell" and you don't want the tenant going back a telling your wife either.

 

To be honest this thread sounds like a giant fantasy about the tenant and how to connive her into sex next time your wife is out of town.

I can see how it looks that way but trust me, these conversations were all had with my wife years ago before we married, and recently a few months ago as a refresher.

Just because I answer that she travels for work, it doesn't mean she doesn't travel for work. I know that's cliched, I knew that typing it, but I will always be honest. She travels for work. A billion people do it, that's why it's cliched. Thanks for your concern though.

Looking for solutions to reading my best friend's mind...

If you want the answer to be GOD NO, then just do it the way you planned to initially. It's not ideal but you'll get your answer and then you can either move forward or move on from this.

"Looking for solutions to reading my best friend's mind..."

Telepathy?

ENA is a great place, but - not that I can see - there are no courses in telepathy available yet on here. L.

You wouldn't be the first to ask that question here OP.

If you want the answer to be GOD NO, then just do it the way you planned to initially. It's not ideal but you'll get your answer and then you can either move forward or move on from this.

I want the answer to be no whilst finding out without just blurting out the question and ruining a great friendship.

....you don't want to f....ck your friends. No matter how you want to spin this, you have crossed over some major lines and have developed an attachment to this girl and now you want more.

Look, you simply do not p...ss and sh....t in the water you need to drink daily. This chic lives with you, it's quite clear that your wife would have a problem if you started banging her, it's obvious that you are emotionally attached to her, so no, it's not just a sexual thing for you, on top of that you two work together. I couldn't come up with a worse, messier and more likely to blow up in your face a thousand different ways situation if you paid me to.

When things get out of hand like that, you do need to clean house instead of trying to dream up ways of acting out on your desires. Recognize this has gotten out of hand. Tell her she needs to start looking for a place. This is for your own sake and well being. Stop hanging out with her. Get out and get laid, do whatever it takes to clear your head. You are in too deep and yes, you are cheating on your wife because you have developed such a deep emotional attachment to another woman and now you are just dying to take that further. This has gone many many many miles beyond your "open" arrangement and it needs to end today.