wouldn't this be amoral ?

If my father gets me a job through personal relationships or people he has done some favors in the past without them actually checking my qualifications , or comparing them to other applicants for the same job position.

It may not be ethical, TCO.

So, there you are again.

You are, I take it, remaining in Egypt?

ughhh until an escape opportunity surfaces , I probably am .

Are you qualified? (regardless of whether they check the qualifications or not).

Are you taking the job?

If not taking the job because of the "amoral" aspect, what do you intend to do or work at?

It is called Nepotism.

I still don't know , I'm in my first year at college , but I don't think I'd be when I graduate , you know I've talked about this before and you probably remember that I already hate that field and the best I can do is just graduate with a mediocre GPA , I think there are lot of people out there who'd be more qualified than me and I don't think it'd be fair to take up their places.

Most jobs are acquired by a combination of connections, networking and qualifications. Do you feel you are only getting the job because of your father's pull?

If my father gets me a job through personal relationships or people he has done some favors in the past without them actually checking my qualifications , or comparing them to other applicants for the same job position.

This is a circular argument.

More concretely:

"What are you going to do?"

You don't like Egypt. You don't like the society there. So....?

What do you envisage as a

"until an escape opportunity surfaces..."

Opportunities do not appear out of nowhere. One has to work towards them.

wiseman2, about 80% yes .

Hermes , I swear you have no Idea how much I'm dying to escape this hell , but immigration form a third world country is more complicated than you think , you have this college degree not being valid in 1st world countries thing so I have to do extra studies abroad and a whole bunch of things I'm not even completely aware of yet. as of now I'll probably just stick to collecting as many info as I can about this, and then I'll try and plan my next move.

I have to do extra studies abroad and a whole bunch of things I'm not even completely aware of yet. as of now I'll probably just stick to collecting as many info as I can about this, and then I'll try and plan my next move.

Luck is what happens when opportunity meets preparation.

Oh I know all about immigration from a third world country. It's there every day on our TV screens as they cross the Mediterranean in those flimsy craft.

Get the degree, TCO, and perhaps you can find a way to continue studies at a university abroad.

Your father is trying to help I suppose. In many places nepotism is very much alive and well.

IDK Hermes , I thought I'd have a better luck if I did this in a field I actually liked and felt naturally competent at . I was thinking of transferring to business school because I can't stand engineering anymore , but IDK if that's the right move.

Just curious, TCO, ideally what kind of job would you like? Someone here said that opportunities don't just come out of thin air, that couldn't be more true. You have to create opportunities for yourself and it takes a lot of hard work and often a lot of struggle. The first step to any of it though is to identify where you'd like to be ideally and start taking steps to get there.

Right now it seems like you really have no idea what you want to be, and you're weighing out endless amounts of options. Take it from someone with experience, the more time you weigh out endless amounts of options, the more difficult it will be to decide. For lack of a better analogy, it's like buying a wedding dress or a new car but continuing to look at dresses or cars after the fact and eventually ending up with buyer's remorse. You have buyer's remorse about your degree right now. So you need to take the time to sit down and really figure out what kind of job you want to have and where you want to end up, narrow down your options significantly, and make a plan to get yourself there.

Whether it's ethical or not isn't a matter your actions would determine. For me, it boils down to how your father represented you. If he didn't let them know you were underqualified, then yes, but not because of anything you did or didn't do.

If you want the job, I'd feel free to take it.

TCO. Have you actually entered the Faculty of Engineering yet? I seem to recall you were having great diffiulty with your maths.

So until you qualify as an engineer the question of a job is neither here nor there, with or without your father's influence.

Brienoch , I like business , but I still haven't gathered info to know exactly what job position do I want in this field , I guess the first step should be getting a degree in it , but my family kept pressuring me into going to engineering school because according to their inherited beliefs it has more prestige and importance to the community (load of BS if you ask me) , but because of my father's connection thing they said it'd be also a better bet to get a job easily , but since getting a job in this field would be through an amoral method along with the fact that this already a field I hate , I'm considering transferring to business school , so I agree with you , it'll take a lot of hard work as well as , may be , some out of the box thinking or planning , but I might find a job eventually and then leave the country when I'm financially capable .

Yes Hermes I have , although it was mainly due to the grades I got in other subjects (I actually was barely able to get a C in Maths)

It's a long tough road, I know, for you TCO.

That said, whether you like it or not, an engineering degree is useful. Not just because of your family's preferences or anything else. the degree just is as there is a vast demand for engineers throughout the world. You could get abroad just on the back of an engineering degree and then pursue your business degree if that is what you want.

Brienoch , I like business , but I still haven't gathered info to know exactly what job position do I want in this field , I guess the first step should be getting a degree in it , but my family kept pressuring me into going to engineering school because according to their inherited beliefs it has more prestige and importance to the community (load of BS if you ask me) , but because of my father's connection thing they said it'd be also a better bet to get a job easily , but since getting a job in this field would be through an amoral method along with the fact that this already a field I hate , I'm considering transferring to business school , so I agree with you , it'll take a lot of hard work as well as , may be , some out of the box thinking or planning , but I might find a job eventually and then leave the country when I'm financially capable .

Yes, if you like business better, then go for business! Once you start going to school for business, you can begin to narrow down specialties until you figure out what is it you actually want to do in business. The good thing is for you that both engineering and business degrees are pretty universal degrees with good job outlooks. I know in your position it might be hard but your happiness matters more than whatever your parents want. It will take some hard work but the first step for you right now is to transfer to business school and take it from there.

i was unaware as a student of the ways a lot of people end up at their jobs. those who do their best at their job and actually work to justify their names on the payroll (even if they're not top-notch in their field) don't strike me as a problem as apparently they're quite qualified and likely would've (or should've) been hired someplace similar anyway.

i believe in equal opportunities, and i'm a moral masochist, so i would probably be feeling similar. but do you think people's resumes get rejected for moral reasons only? i once was rejected at an interview because i don't wear heavy make up or a lot of jewelry (i'm very neat and groomed. i just dislike excessively decorative stuff.)-- it was for a laboratory job! i ended up working for a high security lab where most people thought it impractical taking your tinsel on and off as you migrate from meeting to lab to meeting to lab.

anyways, jobs are great learning opportunities, it might even make you feel confident in your field. when you leave egypt, evidence of having studied and worked abroad previously will look better than evidence of drifting aimlessly with no clue how to get unstuck from a field and country you don't like. (not that i don't hear you on it being difficult, it's just not what you want to show when looking for career options).

are you also depressed? i haven't read your previous threads.

Yes Hermes I have , although it was mainly due to the grades I got in other subjects (I actually was barely able to get a C in Maths)

Sometimes with math, it's necessary to see it in its application before it becomes understandable. This is especially true with the higher maths, which are so theoretical. This job may give you the practical application that you need to make it click.

Most jobs are acquired by a combination of connections, networking and qualifications.

Also, ^this is quite true. So much of a career is politics. You can dismiss it or ignore it or call it amoral, but it's true.

"I'm in my first year at college , but I don't think I'd be when I graduate , you know I've talked about this before and you probably remember that I already hate that field and the best I can do is just graduate with a mediocre GPA , I think there are lot of people out there who'd be more qualified than me and I don't think it'd be fair to take up their places."

Obviously and I do understand you are talking about a job after you graduate, and it is at that point your father is thinking of helping you with a job.

I do recall you said there is little work available in your own country, hence your wish to emigrate (if you can) after graduation.

engineering jobs are not all like engineering school, the first two years were designed to cull people out. you selected engineering for a reason...maybe you like the sciences, maybe you just thought it was the best paying field. you can reach business aspect of the engineering company with your degree... finances, relationship building, organizational skills....all very relevant to engineering and most other fields...maybe be hard to jump to an accounting position but general business management is often complementary position my coworkers migrate to. with that, if you really dislike it all together and you can't compartmentalize it then may be worthwhile to give serious consideration to your choices...otherwise if you selected the field and its just really hard, maybe you can identify why you started and summon a focus to push through to a specialty.

outside of you actively sabotaging another job applicant I wouldnt worry about the morality of a job search, as has been said networking is just about the best way to get a job, sometimes when a job is posted online there is someone already targeted to the position..that's how employers manipulate the system for their benefit...they just have to make sure they are not obviously violating any laws by excluding someone intentionally...they just write the recipe for the person they want(and they know what that person can do beforehand).

just earn it if you take the opportunity, and maybe one day you can give an opportunity to someone who does not have such a network of people. unless your dad is very influential, if you don't pull your weight you will most likely be let go, a favor can get you in the door but you have to work to stay.

Most jobs are acquired by a combination of connections, networking and qualifications. Do you feel you are only getting the job because of your father's pull?

- This. It sounds like a great opportunity for you.