The Great Pretenders (In Our Relationships) -- LONG

I watched a great movie last night "Gone Girl" (came out a few years ago but watched it on Netflix last night for the first time).

Awesome movie, a psych thriller about a dysfunctional marriage (sociopathic husband/psychopathic wife). One of the best (right up there with Match Point).

Anyway, one of the themes of the movie was about how they both did a lot of pretending throughout their RL and then subsequently their marriage.

Got me thinking, how much pretending do I do in my relationships? How much pretending do any of us do?

How often do we cover up our true feelings out of fear of being deemed by our SO as too needy, too clingy, too demanding, too insecure, too interested/invested, etc etc.... all in an effort to be that "cool" person we believe our partner wants and will fall for. As well as keep them challenged, attracted, etc.

Now that I am thinking about this.... I did a lot of pretending in my last LTR, and still do even! When dating!

I always prided myself on being genuine and REAL, always portraying my true authentic self to my boyfriends and/or guys I date.

But now that I think about, I don't!!

I am that "cool" chick that allows them their "space," (insisting that I need mine too!)... that I am okay if he takes a weekend with his friends and doesn't contact me... I am okay if he doesn't return a text message or email for 3-4 days (or longer), etc. I am okay if he takes a week (or longer) to ask me out again.

I am always that light, breezy, happy, sexy and FUN chick that every man wants!

When the truth is... if he doesn't do these things, the REAL me is actually hurt, disappointed, angry, insecure, SCARED.

The "scared" part is what I think is at the root of it really.... too scared to be REAL, again out of fear that I won't be that "cool" chick, and thus come off too needy, insecure, demanding! Turning him off!

Oh the horror! LOL

This may be why I seem to attract a lot of "commitment phobes" (for lack of a better word) into my life. Ugh!

Anyway, I wonder.... how many of us are the same really? Women AND men. The great pretenders all in an effort to attract others and maintain their attraction.

The many articles published today (both on line and off) seem to adhere to this attitude.

The push/pull for example - tons of articles about this. Indicate interest/then disinterest/then interest again/then disinterest... rinse, repeat, all in an effort to ramp up her (or his) attraction and see you as someone of value.

I have done this myself (not consciously I don't think) but it just goes along with pretending. Covering up who I truly am in order to attract men.

I have become quite a pro at it too! I had one guy recently tell me I "really knew how to play the game." With a smiley. So yeah, I guess according to him, I was doing something right!

But it isn't making me happy, it's phony. The very thing I accuse the MEN of -- being phony and playing games!

What do you guys think? Do you do any pretending in your RLs? Consciously? Subconsciously?

Do you think it's necessary to pretend to a certain degree, you know in order to attract people?

Lest we all appear too needy, clingy, demanding, insecure?

Thoughts?

Not every man wants this. You will attract the wrong people by being the wrong person.

I am always that light, breezy, happy, sexy and FUN chick that every man wants!

Katrina, the happy medium is the place to be. Well adjusted.

Needy, clingy, demanding and insecure are traits that need to be addressed, not covered up cosmetically by some kind of breezy exterior. That is a most unhealthy thing to do, and anyone half-way intelligent will notice the "fake" cosmetic cover at once. believe me.

Pretending in any shape or form to "attract" others is a recipe for disaster.

Not every man wants this. You will attract the wrong people by being the wrong person.

Can you expound on this?

What do some men want and what's the alternative? Me to show display my insecurities, and needs?

That I actually want him to contact me every day, don't wait a week to ask me out again, and other such demands?.

Just in reading these forums (not just this one) any of that in the early stages is gonna result in most (if not all) guys to become turned off and take off.

Even right now there is a thread created by a woman who believes she scared her guy off because she was too clingy.

Most if not everyone on THIS forum told her YES you came off too clingy!

When the reality is, the way SHE felt is probably how most women (and some men) feel in these precarious early stages.

But god forbid we act on that like this poster did!

The guy takes off and then she receives advice to do the exact thing I am discussing in this thread - PRETENDING she is cool with everything.

When she's not -- that is NOT how she really feels.

Exactly Wiseman:

"You will attract the wrong people by being the wrong person." You will attract the wrong person by not being yourself.

Katrina. No one can mind read, as in "what do some men want". But I'd hazard a good guess that men with a healthy take on life will be on the look out for healthy relationships.

K. If you have insecurities and needs, a man (any man or men) is not the person to be approaching to help out with those insecurities.

Straight talking is always best, in all situations.

Remember you will also encounter a lot of flakes in the dating world (from what I see on here!!), and they are not going to be right for you anyhow.

Why would you ask a man you have just met that you want him to contact you every day! People work, so maybe a man may need to wait a week (among other reasons) before asking you out again. Maybe - nothing to do with you - he may not wish to ask you out again.

And no, most women (or men) from my experience are not needy and insecure in any stage of dating or relationship. some are, some aren't.

Katrina, the happy medium is the place to be. Well adjusted.

 

Needy, clingy, demanding and insecure are traits that need to be addressed, not covered up cosmetically by some kind of breezy exterior. That is a most unhealthy thing to do, and anyone half-way intelligent will notice the "fake" cosmetic cover at once. believe me.

 

Pretending in any shape or form to "attract" others is a recipe for disaster.

Yeah I have actually had a few guys distance themselves from me because of my "coolness".... all in an effort to gauge my reaction, to see if I would step up! So yes they are definitely noticing.

So they're pretending just like me.

Instead of being their true selves and ASKING me what I want, how I feel.

I did have one guy do that recently (ASK ME.... he said "I know we are breaking all the rules, but I want to know what is going on inside your brain."

That was like such a major TURN ON for me, that honesty, that realness.

And I responded positively too telling him. Being REAL. Not too much, just telling him I thought we had "an energy." He agreed! Something was there.

Then HE pulled back, except for a quick response to an email I sent the next day, I didn't hear from him for almost a week after that.

So a lot of good my "being real" with him was.

Anyway, that is just one example, a pretty good one which is why I used it.

OK. Let's see. A date, first or thereafter, is not an exercise in analysis, interrogation, or a brain scan. L.

Forget cool and fake and cosmetic. Just be natural. That does not mean spilling out TMI about your insecurities or whatever.

On the other hand if you feel your "needs" or insecurities are really shackling you, K, maybe it would be best to address those with help, and THEN see how the dating goes.

Exactly Wiseman:

 

"You will attract the wrong people by being the wrong person." You will attract the wrong person by not being yourself.

 

Katrina. No one can mind read, as in "what do some men want". But I'd hazard a good guess that men with a healthy take on life will be on the look out for healthy relationships.

 

K. If you have insecurities and needs, a man (any man or men) is not the person to be approaching to help out with those insecurities.

 

Straight talking is always best, in all situations.

 

Remember you will also encounter a lot of flakes in the dating world (from what I see on here!!), and they are not going to be right for you anyhow.

 

Why would you ask a man you have just met that you want him to contact you every day! People work, so maybe a man may need to wait a week (among other reasons) before asking you out again. Maybe - nothing to do with you - he may not wish to ask you out again.

 

And no, most women (or men) from my experience are not needy and insecure in any stage of dating or relationship. some are, some aren't.

So you are saying most people don't feel even pang on insecurity while navigating the early stages of dating and relationships?

I dunno, my experience is that there is always at least some level of uncertainty at least sometimes, that will cause someone (assuming he/she has attraction/feelings for the other) to become insecure.

To me this is normal and healthy.

For example say a guy enjoys a lot of together time or texting or whatever, that guy will walk away and the guys you don't want who rarely communicate or want to be together will stay.

Just be yourself, whoever that is rather than modify your heart and soul just to get dates or get someone unsuitable to stick around.

What do some men want and what's the alternative? Me to show display my insecurities, and needs?

Uncertainty is not the same as insecurity K.

You know that. Let's not mix up the terms.

No one can tell the future, which is uncertain.

Look, self-confidence is a great turn-on. I don't mean "cool" or "fake" self-confidence, but the real thing.

You remarked in OP.

"thus come off too needy, insecure, demanding!"

NOT the same thing as uncertainty.

Advice: K. never cover up anything in order to attract men. That is like trying to build a house on a foundation of sand. It won't work.

OK. Let's see. A date, first or thereafter, is not an exercise in analysis, interrogation, or a brain scan. L.

 

Forget cool and fake and cosmetic. Just be natural. That does not mean spilling out TMI about your insecurities or whatever.

 

On the other hand if you feel your "needs" or insecurities are really shackling you, K, maybe it would be best to address those with help, and THEN see how the dating goes.

Of course I would never do that. It's not how I feel anyway. But I do have some insecurities and I am NOT always cool with 100% of what goes down.

But I pretend that I am.... which has served me pretty darn well in all my RLs to be honest.

I sort of adjust and adapt. But it doesn't really make me happy in the long term because again, I am pretending.

I think maybe I am just attracting the wrong men as wiseman said.

Even in retrospect, my ex whom I was with for six years was the wrong man.

My picker needs a major adjustment.

I just don't know what to do to fix it.

Well, I used to do that whole "Yeah, I don't care, I'm that cool chick who will make no demands on you, but give it my 200 percent no matter what red flag you raise." And I did this on and off through pretty much most of my relationship history and it was a failure. I also did do the needy insecure jealous partner routine and that was and is equally unhealthy.

Finally, I got fed up with all of it and just decided, "These are my boundaries, this is what I find acceptable and this is what I don't. Now, either you match all of those things and have no major red flags OR you don't and there's the door. I will not care how much I like you, how much my feelings matter, if we do not match on these things important to ME we do not match and I'm done tangling with yet another wrong relationship."

No big surprise I finally found the healthiest sanest relationship I've ever had following that decision. And yes, I did send a few guys away before I met him.

Being that fun girl who makes zero demands and accepts being on call whenever a guy feels like contacting you and simply gone when he doesn't will definitely get you the commitentphobes and the guy who wants fun with no strings, and that's great if that's what you want too. But if it isn't and you want someone to commit to you and be committed to there has to be mutual boundaries and mutual give and take. And yeah, you're probably going to have to tell of few fellas (or gals if guys are reading this) goodbye if and when you see these things don't match.

And sooner rather than later with no compromise is probably smarter. Sure some can call that being picky. I just call it having standards and not settling for any warm body that walks through the door.

So maybe it's time to stop and take a long hard look at what YOU want, what is okay with YOU, what YOUR boundaries are and aren't. Then focus on finding people who are a good match for that and letting everyone else out back into the pond so to speak if they can't step up. There is such a thing as being too accommodating and selfish people, the narcissistic, the commitmentphobic, the just plain into using others love that type of person, because of how much they can get away with and don't have to give anything in return.

And yes, I am now truly myself and anyone who doesn't like it can leave. I am getting old enough, mortality has shown me that it breathes down everyone's neck, I don't want to spend the rest of my life with people who are not on the same page as me. And that more than worrying about being yourself or not yourself or having to hide your feelings or put on an act is what you should be focusing on.

"I think maybe I am just attracting the wrong men as wiseman said.

Even in retrospect, my ex whom I was with for six years was the wrong man."

"I just don't know what to do to fix it."

Well, I am afraid I don't know either. L.

However, harking back to something you said, we are not talking about a making oneself a "challenge" I don't think.

You did say:

" the REAL me is actually hurt, disappointed, angry, insecure, SCARED."

Some insecurities....only?

My therapist asked me my dating style years ago. I thought I was pretty coy, playing hard to get, acting disinterested and feeling pretty full of myself that some men loved the chase.

My therapist says to me: `I hope you realize by what you are doing, you are attracting unavailable men'

Available people are attracted to otherwise available people. Unavailable ones will chase you because you suggest the desired outcome they are after- Unavailable or non committal"

Hermes is correct. There is a difference from being uncertain and insecure. There is no certainty in dating but you can be secure in yourself and learning how to navigate it in an authentic and transparent way.

I learned long ago that too much effort was wasted on being on the look out for someone you trust. That energy was better spent on learning to trust yourself.

Precisely, Paulette.

"So maybe it's time to stop and take a long hard look at what YOU want, what is okay with YOU, what YOUR boundaries are and aren't. Then focus on finding people who are a good match for that and letting everyone else out back into the pond so to speak if they can't step up. There is such a thing as being too accommodating and selfish people, the narcissistic, the commitmentphobic, the just plain into using others love that type of person, because of how much they can get away with and don't have to give anything in return."

Aaahh Reinvent:

That is one powerful post:

""My therapist asked my dating style years ago. I thought I was pretty coy, playing hard to get, acting disinterested and feeling pretty full of myself that some men loved the chase.

My therapist says to me: `I hope you realize by what you are doing, you are attracting unavailable men'

Available people are attracted to otherwise available people. Unavailable ones will chase you because you suggest the desired outcome they are after- Unavailable or non committal"

Hermes is correct. There is a difference from being uncertain and insecure. There is no certainty in dating but you can be secure in yourself and learning how to navigate it in an authentic and transparent way.

I learned long ago that too much effort was wasted on being on the look out for someone you trust. That energy was better spent on learning to trust yourself."

Well, I used to do that whole "Yeah, I don't care, I'm that cool chick who will make no demands on you, but give it my 200 percent no matter what red flag you raise." And I did this on and off through pretty much most of my relationship history and it was a failure. I also did do the needy insecure jealous partner routine and that was and is equally unhealthy.

 

Finally, I got fed up with all of it and just decided, "These are my boundaries, this is what I find acceptable and this is what I don't. Now, either you match all of those things and have no major red flags OR you don't and there's the door. I will not care how much I like you, how much my feelings matter, if we do not match on these things important to ME we do not match and I'm done tangling with yet another wrong relationship."

 

No big surprise I finally found the healthiest sanest relationship I've ever had following that decision. And yes, I did send a few guys away before I met him.

 

Being that fun girl who makes zero demands and accepts being on call whenever a guy feels like contacting you and simply gone when he doesn't will definitely get you the commitentphobes and the guy who wants fun with no strings, and that's great if that's what you want too. But if it isn't and you want someone to commit to you and be committed to there has to be mutual boundaries and mutual give and take. And yeah, you're probably going to have to tell of few fellas (or gals if guys are reading this) goodbye if and when you see these things don't match.

 

And sooner rather than later with no compromise is probably smarter. Sure some can call that being picky. I just call it having standards and not settling for any warm body that walks through the door.

 

So maybe it's time to stop and take a long hard look at what YOU want, what is okay with YOU, what YOUR boundaries are and aren't. Then focus on finding people who are a good match for that and letting everyone else out back into the pond so to speak if they can't step up. There is such a thing as being too accommodating and selfish people, the narcissistic, the commitmentphobic, the just plain into using others love that type of person, because of how much they can get away with and don't have to give anything in return.

 

And yes, I am now truly myself and anyone who doesn't like it can leave. I am getting old enough, mortality has shown me that it breathes down everyone's neck, I don't want to spend the rest of my life with people who are not on the same page as me. And that more than worrying about being yourself or not yourself or having to hide your feelings or put on an act is what you should be focusing on.

Thank you! I am glad to hear I am not alone in this.

Yes I need to adopt this attitude.... but then again, there is that fear that he will walk away when I do. Think I am too needy/demanding or whatevs.

When what I really want is to develop something substantial with him cause I REALLY like him!

So I continue to cover up, adjust, adapt. Be "cool."

I need to make a change though.

PP, how did you overcome your "cool chick" mentality? You just one day got fed up and decided the hell with it?

I need to do this too I guess.... but it's so hard!

I have been this way for a very long time and as I said, it serves me well with men.... I just end up unhappy for the most part.

I mean happy they like me and want to be with me, have a RL with me.

But unhappy that I had to pretend to be someone I am not in order for them to do so.

When and where did this cool girl mentality come from?

I do think it's a problem more so with women because they're by and large raised to depend on affirmation, which I'd imagine being a big driver for the conflation of uncertainty and insecurity. But as we grow more and more equal as a society, more and more men are expecting women to be more emotionally independent. I obviously can't speak for the older generations, but I think to the point of "pretending," the script probably used to be flipped. I picture men kinda putting up with being emotionally depended on and being the ones to do the pretending. Then again, in a time when women were notoriously seen as much less of equals, perhaps being depended on has historically been a way for men to bolster their own egos.

I don't know. It's all stabs in the dark. Personally, I've always preferred women I'm dating to be emotionally independent, particularly so when starting out as I'm not much for pretending, myself. While maybe most women do err toward the side of insecurity in the face of uncertainty, I haven't had difficulty finding women who don't. And I'm sure there are plenty of men who, themselves, would line up with in the more insecure crowd. So I'm not trying to say there's a black and white divide.

Yes, Paulette:

"Finally, I got fed up with all of it and just decided, "These are my boundaries, this is what I find acceptable and this is what I don't. Now, either you match all of those things and have no major red flags OR you don't and there's the door. I will not care how much I like you, how much my feelings matter, if we do not match on these things important to ME we do not match and I'm done tangling with yet another wrong relationship."

No big surprise I finally found the healthiest sanest relationship I've ever had following that decision. "

Of course it has to be said that the exciting "jerks" (the legends in their own mind) will not be attracted to healthy.......

Lol. doc Blaze:

"When and where did this cool girl mentality come from?"

Where do you think! Off the silver screen, the soaps, the appalling advice given in certain glossy and less than glossy mags......

Cool is touted as being a clone of some minor celeb, and most definitely, never be yourself.

You get there by practice. It's liberating to state your standards. Scary as hell when you haven't done it before. But the reactions are reinforcing.

If you do so and do so from a place of respect and self respect. Men/people respect you that much more . . and so on.

One foot in front of the other and your confidence rises as you act in your own self care and you become less insecure because you learn that if others are not in alignment with your values then it's best they just move along anyway.

It clears the way for more like minded people. Not just in dating but in life generally.

My therapist asked me my dating style years ago. I thought I was pretty coy, playing hard to get, acting disinterested and feeling pretty full of myself that some men loved the chase.

 

My therapist says to me: `I hope you realize by what you are doing, you are attracting unavailable men'

Available people are attracted to otherwise available people. Unavailable ones will chase you because you suggest the desired outcome they are after- Unavailable or non committal"

Hermes is correct. There is a difference from being uncertain and insecure. There is no certainty in dating but you can be secure in yourself and learning how to navigate it in an authentic and transparent way.

 

I learned long ago that too much effort was wasted on being on the look out for someone you trust. That energy was better spent on learning to trust yourself.

Bolded (all of it really but especially the bolded). Thank you!

That is one good therapist for telling you this. Very insightful.

I see a therapist too, after my parents died two years ago. Only occasionally now though.

I have been pretending with her though too! Telling her how positive my dating experiences are and have been...how great my previous LTR was!

When in retrospect it wasn't. I was just pretending it was..... in denial really.

I think this is what I am realizing about myself now. That I have been in total denial about who I really truly am.

Man, that movie woke something up in me for sure!

Movies can be very powerful sometimes and this one obviously was! At least for me, because other than the fact the female character (Amy) was a psychopath (lol) I identified a lot with her -- at least about the pretending and feeling I need to be that cool chick to attract a man.

But look at what happened? She was that cool chick and attracted a sociopath! Who lied and cheated on her!

Gotta love those `Ah hah' moments!

Best investment - get down and dirty and really real with your therapist. Anything else is a waste of time and money.

Consider it the first step in being authentic. . and then at later date, you take your show on the road.

I do think it's a problem more so with women because they're by and large raised to depend on affirmation, which I'd imagine being a big driver for the conflation of uncertainty and insecurity. But as we grow more and more equal as a society, more and more men are expecting women to be more emotionally independent. I obviously can't speak for the older generations, but I think to the point of "pretending," the script probably used to be flipped. I picture men kinda putting up with being emotionally depended on and being the ones to do the pretending. Then again, in a time when women were notoriously seen as much less of equals, perhaps being depended on has historically been a way for men to bolster their own egos.

 

I don't know. It's all stabs in the dark. Personally, I've always preferred women I'm dating to be emotionally independent, particularly so when starting out as I'm not much for pretending, myself. While maybe most women do err toward the side of insecurity in the face of uncertainty, I haven't had difficulty finding women who don't. And I'm sure there are plenty of men who, themselves, would line up with in the more insecure crowd. So I'm not trying to say there's a black and white divide.

Bolded - yes and you are the type of man I would become 100% attracted to, precisely because YOU are emotionally independent (and probably independent in other ways too), and as such seek emotionally independent women as well.

I recall a post you wrote wherein you said you sometimes will need as long as ONE MONTH away from your partner. Or you just need to go off sometimes and "do your thing" whatever that may be, for as long as one month.

See me pretending would be 100% cool with that! Go do your thing and I will do mine! No problem!

When the REAL me would be wondering, why does he need to be away from me for one month? He must not be all that into me or whatever.

That's the insecurity, that's the fear. But as I said, I pretend I am cool with it, lest you become turned off, deem me not emotionally independent (which is what you like).

When deep down I am really not all that cool with it. So I continue to pretend.

Does this make sense?

I recall a post you wrote wherein you said you sometimes will need as long as ONE MONTH away from your partner.

 

See me pretending would be 100% cool with that! Go do your thing and I will do mine! No problem!

 

When the REAL me would be wondering, why does he need to be away from me for one month? He must not be all that into me or whatever.

 

That's the insecurity, that's the fear. But as I said, I pretend I am cool with it, lest you become turned off, deem me not emotionally independent (which is what you like).

 

When deep down I am really not all that cool with it. So I continue to pretend?

 

Does this make sense?

What he describes is not for you. Not wrong, not right, just not the fit for you.

Get clear with yourself what exactly you want and if you stop twisting yourself into relationships that aren't a good fit,

then the insecurity lessons. . or better yet, doesn't exist.

Makes sense, right?

What he describes is not for you. Not wrong, not right, just not the fit for you.

 

Get clear with yourself what exactly you want and if you stop twisting yourself into relationships that aren't a good fit,

then the insecurity lessons. . or better yet, doesn't exist.

Makes sense, right?

I realize this now. Problem is, these are exactly the types of guys I become attracted to!

This is what I need to change.

Yes I will need to start being more honest and real with my therapist, that is a good start.

Again thank you!

To everyone who responded actually. You guys are awesome.