I was the dumper but I'm the dumpee. How do I NC?

Long story short:

42M

A couple of years ago, I was casually dating and I ended up with two women at once for quite a long time (10 months). Never told any of them cause it's happened to me in the past and eventually always they'd decide to leave me (I was OK with it, it's the game, I guess), so I figured that it would figure out itself. Eventually, pressed by the situation (I like to think I'm quite a decent fellow and I was feeling pretty bad about it), I told them both what was going on (mistake! never do that, always say it's "not working out" and that's it) and kept one, the one that was more "girlfriend material", the one I liked the most and the one I saw more of a future with. She's also extremely hot and attractive, a 9.5/10. She's 40 and looks 25, and besides working in the office with me part-time (pretty big office and different departments, won't see each other unless intended), she's also a model and a dancer. Not that I picked her based on looks, but it's important for my story (she is used to men pleasing/pursuing her in all kinds of ways).

After a week of turmoil, for a month or so, things got even better than before, but then she started resenting it and telling me. She also changed in the ways she expressed her affection (less), and the sex, which had been amazing, became mediocre. I told her and she told me that there were times where the thoughts of me with this other woman and how I had been lying to her (my gf) during all this time came to her head, and how she could not get over it and that every time these thoughts came to her head they sent her back to day one over and over.

Me being guilt-ridden (I had never ever cheated on anyone before, and had she done the same thing to me I would have dumped her on the spot and never looked back), I started treating her "better", pleasing her and always going the extra mile (unexpected gifts, dinners, holidays, being always there for her) to prove her that I did regret what I had done (I did), and to make things right. She made me even go to therapy, which was good for both, but the problem still remained. In the end, she decided that she needed to speak to the other woman just to know that I had been telling her the truth because otherwise she couldn't trust me, or be with me. I told her that I didn't like the idea, but if that was what she needed, I was ok with it. She spoke to her, and because I had always told her the truth, she compared versions with this other woman's (which was pretty helpful, to my surprise) truth, saw for herself that I had always told her the truth, and she finally found closure.

But her affection for me and the sex kept being as they were: Mediocre. We have amazing good times together, we laugh and play a lot, we are very much alike, and when we are happy we're very happy, but since two months after telling her about my cheating, there's always been this problem: I do not feel wanted by her and it's always driven me crazy. I put all the effort in the relationship, make her feel like a queen and I'm imaginative with dates and everything, cook extra for her to take to work (we work together), and I'm what I thought was "the perfect boyfriend". So my thinking was: if I've made up for what I've done, if she's over it, how come you still treat me like this? (I've told her). I've also told her that she doesn't love me as much as I love her, and that I feel that she's not too attracted to me. She's always denied it, and says stuff like "This is how I am" (how? I've known you quite different for the first year of the relationship), "if only you knew how much I love you", and stuff like this, but it's that I do not feel it, so at the end of the day, you not loving me or you not loving me as I want to be loved are the same thing.

So after the fifth fight like this, I just left and haven't spoken to her since. We haven't broken up "officially". I've got stuff of hers, she's got stuff of mine.

This was 11 days ago (I had to count the days now, I'm not keeping count, and I'm mostly ok with this). I found this forum and about the NC thingy the day after I last spoke to her, and went in a chat with of some people on r/ExNoContact that told me that even though I was the one thinking about breaking up with her, which would make me the dumper, she's the one that's rejected me, so I'm the dumpee. They also told me that me being always the pleaser made her lose interest in me (yes, I accept that I've been pushing her a lot, and even though I've realised it myself for quite a while, I couldn't help it), that she had never had to work for the relationship and she had "checked out", but her biological clock and societal pressure made her stick with me. Makes a lot of sense, especially after everything I've read here this last week, and I'm shocked I didn't see this earlier. It goes to show how invested I was on winning her love back.

So now, here I am.

She texted me last Sunday to check up on how I was, didn't check the message (whatsapp double blue tick) til yesterday (Tuesday), I didn't reply to it.

I've gone all NC with her and intend to keep it that way to the end, but given the special circumstances I would love some advice/different views.

Also, my parents are visiting me in 12 days and so they didn't have to pay a hotel they are going to stay at my flat while I stay at my gf's. She's got a spare room in which I could sleep instead of sharing her amazing king bed as I'd normally do.

Since I understand that she does love me but she needs to miss me to see that I'm serious about breaking up (I am) if she doesn't shape up, what should I do next?

I did have a very serious conversation about this about a month ago and told her that I couldn't take it anymore and that if she didn't change and made an effort, I was out. She probably didn't take it seriously, because I had been warning her about it for a while, but last week I had it.

So how do I go about tailoring the NC specifically to my situation?

Thanks a lot, people.

It sounds like you want to use NC as a tool to make her 'shape up'? Eventually you will have to get your stuff from her house so if you wanted to contact her regarding that it would make sense. Has she contacted you?

NC doesn't change people or fix things, unfortunately it sounds like she still resents the cheating and her interest is fading since then.

my parents are visiting me in 12 days and so they didn't have to pay a hotel they are going to stay at my flat while I stay at my gf's. She's got a spare room in which I could sleep instead of sharing her amazing king bed as I'd normally do. if she doesn't shape up, what should I do next? how do I go about tailoring the NC specifically to my situation?

Shape up or move on. I would prefer the former, but I'm aware of reality, so I'm ready to move on if things dont go my way.

The fact that she hasn't made any comments about our stuff makes me think she doesn't want it to be over. I'm thinking that when I stay at her place for a week in two weeks is when I have to make my 'moves'. If I don't see any progress on her behaviour by then, I'm out for good.

Like Wiseman said, NC isn't a tool to change people or make them miss you...it's a tool that's used to get over someone so that you can both move on.

Listen, you screwed up. Of course the sex has changed, and of course she's different...that was a major breach in trust. How can you say, if the situation had been reversed you would have ended it...while only giving her a month to get over it?

If you want to be with her, you're going to need to back off and stop trying to prove your love to her. You'll need to be consistent, you'll need to be an open book with her...and no more cheating. It's going to take time. If someone breached my trust like that, it would take me months or years to fully trust them again...but since you've only been dating a year, this relationship is probably not worth saving.

If she was on here asking for advice, people would tell her to move on. It's a harsh reality.

If you do plan on ending things with her, don't stay at her place when your parents are in town...and exchange your belongings ASAP. Block her in text/what's app/fb and any hung else you have her on.

If you plan on staying with her, NC is only going to p her off further.

I'm ready to move on if things dont go my way.

I don't see how she could ever trust you again after you played her for so long. I'm sure she was keeping a part of herself closed off to you as a matter of self-protection, and also from resentment, and that's why she acted as she did. To now ignore her is not going to do anything to build trust! Quite the opposite, I would think. You two-timed her for 10 months, so you really don't have much leverage in getting, or expecting, her to treat you perfectly. Disappearing on her isn't going to get her to shape up.

I'm not sure there's much you can do here. She doesn't trust you, and rightfully so.

Peeps, either you have not read my post or I might not have explained myself well. I worked with her for 10 months so she could get over what I'd done. She says she did. I trust her.

It's been 3 months and nothing has changed re affection.

I think her affection is somewhat gone cause I've been pushing her to 'love' me and she's taken me for granted. That's what I want to change. If it doesn't, I'm out. But I'd rather stay with her. Otherwise, we're perfect.

Peeps, either you have not read my post or I might not have explained myself well. I worked with her for 10 months so she could get over what I'd done. She says she did. I trust her.

 

It's been 3 months and nothing has changed re affection.

 

I think her affection is somewhat gone cause I've been pushing her to 'love' me and she's taken me for granted. That's what I want to change. If it doesn't, I'm out. But I'd rather stay with her. Otherwise, we're perfect.

Sorry, I thought you had been together for 10 months while cheating, and it was found out when you had been dating a year.

So for about half of your relationship you've been trying to fix things with her? I think her finding out you were cheating ended the honeymoon phase, and this might just be the way she is when she's not in a new relationship. I would move on.

Yes, my bad Don't know how to edit it, sorry.

Yes, I cheated on her for 10 months. I don't consider it cheating-cheating cause I was casually dating and honest to god, I thought that at my age and in this day and age everybody did that. That's what I saw around me, at least (friends, colleagues, etc.). Anyways.

After that I worked with her for another 10 months to help her get over it and regain her trust in me, during which her affection has gone on decline. It's not non-existent at all right now, but I want more. To give my 100% I want her 100%, not 30%. She says she trusts me again and that she's completely over it, and I do believe her. She's asked me to move in with her a couple of times during this second 10-month phase, but I've never been sure because of this issue. During this "second phase" I've always felt like "the woman" in the relationship. She's the one always busy (she's got two jobs, I understand), I'm the one always accommodating to her (fair enough, I have loads of spare time and these days all my friends are married with kids, so not much of a social life either). So that's why this NC makes a lot of sense: get myself back, make new friends, do some new stuff, sign up to learn something, make myself busy and happier, then if she comes back, amazing. If not, I got myself back and I'm ready to move on.

I think that me being too nice and always pleasing her as my way to make up for what I did has made her to take me for granted. And that's what I want to change. If I can. Because otherwise I cannot be with her, even though besides this we're perfect, we like the same stuff, we laugh a lot together, she's ultra-hot and everything I could ask for in a woman. But I cannot be the one to put all the effort in the relationship. And the thing is that she's the one that made the bigger effort when she didn't take me for granted. I've ed up, I know, but I think we're totally salvageable and that we've got an amazing potential for the future.

You played a game for way to long. I'm absolutely against cheating. I got out of an 8 year relationship. I jumped back into dating full force. I met 2 woman same weekend. Something I'll never do again. I became sexual with one. While still seeing the other 4 normal dates. I had to make a decision and broke it off with the sexual one only lasted maybe a month. This was bad enough and not like me at all I didn't sleep with them at the same time. But i can see this situation happening.

You were with both for 10 months and sexual with both at the same time. She will either get over it or not. Your relationship might never be the same. Might be better to start from scratch and do it the right way.

BTW I made the wrong decision and the other relationship lasted only 4 months oh well.

Does she make more than you or have a nicer place?

She's asked me to move in with her a couple of times during this second 10-month phase, but I've never been sure because of this issue. During this "second phase" I've always felt like "the woman" in the relationship.

Personally, if I found out you'd been cheating on me (YES, it was cheating) for ten months, I'd have dropped you on the spot and never looked back. I think you're extremely fortunate that she even *attempted* to give you another shot, and tried to get past it. However, it doesn't sound like she can. And that is no short-coming or failure on her part, IMO. Some people can forgive cheating, others can't.

People, read my posts, please. She says she's over it, completely. That's not the problem here anymore.

Does she make more than you or have a nicer place?

Nope, I make like double what she makes, but yes, her place is a thousand times better than mine. She used to make a fortune out of dancing. She lost one of her dancing gigs and earns 30% less now.

People, read my posts, please. She says she's over it, completely. That's not the problem here anymore.

If you believe that, then there is your real problem.

You have no remorse for your actions and sort of an aloof attitude about the entire thing. She isnt over it. SHe isnt going to 'shape up' and yes, you were cheating and you knew it. I hope you move on as I dont see the foundation for a healthy or trusting relationship.

Do you think she's out of your league and maybe you need to knock her down to size/put her in her place using NC as a tool?

Because resorting to a my way or the highway attitude isn't about love, forgiveness, etc. it's about a power struggle. place is a thousand times better than mine. She used to make a fortune out of dancing. She lost one of her dancing gigs and earns 30% less now.

Do you think she's out of your league and maybe you need to knock her down to size/put her in her place using NC as a tool?

 

Because resorting to a my way or the highway attitude isn't about love, forgiveness, etc. it's about a power struggle.

 

Nail on the freaking head Wiseman!!!

Do you think she's out of your league and maybe you need to knock her down to size/put her in her place using NC as a tool?

 

Because resorting to a my way or the highway attitude isn't about love, forgiveness, etc. it's about a power struggle.

 

 

Food for thought, thanks. That's what I came here for. I'll sleep on it.

 

Although I don't see how her place being better made you think that. Care to elaborate? And right off the bat: Yes, it's a power struggle, she's taken me for granted, and I don't want her to have that power, because it means I become unattractive to her. I don't know if it's too late, and it may very well be.

 

I honestly think that's the problem here and even I have been thinking that the problem was that she has not forgiven me fully up until 2 weeks ago, but I've asked her a thousand times and she says that that doesn't bother her at all anymore, that when she told me she'd found closure after speaking face-to-face with the other woman, she had found the closure, and she doesn't think about the cheating anymore. She acknowledged my efforts, and thanked me for them, and I've even been told by female friends, who I can trust because they tell me what I don't want to hear, that they have not ever heard of a cheating bf that had done so much to be forgiven.

 

She says she loves me, and "if only you knew how much", but I do not see it that much. I've seen her loving me and believe me, I can tell the difference. And yes, I consider it a failure of mine. If only I had not cheated... If only I had not tried so hard to please her on everything... It was a mistake, my mistake. I had never cheated on anyone before and I will never cheat again. Honest to god, I thought that everybody single my age was doing the same thing, and being absolutely inexperienced, I thought that that was what I had to do too. A few women did it to me when I began dating. It hurt a bit (someone you've seen for two dates can't hurt you much) for the first few, then I started doing it too, it's just for sanity. I thought that when The One showed up I'd knew straight away. Not so.

The most "unattractive" thing you can do is cheat on someone who loves and trusts you. The next most unattractive thing you can do is be peeved with her for not "shaping up" to the way you think she should be treating you, and for not keeping you sufficiently entertained in bed.

She may have found closure and forgiven you to the very best of her ability.

You may have done everything you can think of to fix the issue.

But in her eyes you will never again be the man she thought you were. EVER.

And to say you "honest to god thought everyone my age was doing the same thing".... is an insult to the rest of us that are single in our 40s.

Ack. This thread is hitting a nerve for me.

Have you consider some counselling? After reading your story, I sense that there are way more underlying issues than just what is happening? All I got out of your story is "game playing"!! Why I say that;

You played this game with her for 10 months (regardless if you were aware of it or not), than now you want to play another game of No Contact, to get her to shape up. hmmmm... give it some thought. It's a repeated pattern of game playing. I know it's something you subconsciously do not realize, but I'm pointing it out to you. Why always have to be a game?

Could you have some kind of commitment phobia? I think if you work with a therapist and dig deep, you might come to the root of the problem. I don't think it's just the relationship with this woman that is the problem.

Another question, why did you choose this particular woman over the other woman you were dating? Is it solely on looks? How is this one more girlfriend material? Is it because you have to work harder for her? I know these are hard questions, but it will help you dig deeper.

Food for thought, thanks. That's what I came here for. I'll sleep on it.

 

Although I don't see how her place being better made you think that. Care to elaborate? And right off the bat: Yes, it's a power struggle, she's taken me for granted, and I don't want her to have that power, because it means I become unattractive to her. I don't know if it's too late, and it may very well be.

 

I honestly think that's the problem here and even I have been thinking that the problem was that she has not forgiven me fully up until 2 weeks ago, but I've asked her a thousand times and she says that that doesn't bother her at all anymore, that when she told me she'd found closure after speaking face-to-face with the other woman, she had found the closure, and she doesn't think about the cheating anymore. She acknowledged my efforts, and thanked me for them, and I've even been told by female friends, who I can trust because they tell me what I don't want to hear, that they have not ever heard of a cheating bf that had done so much to be forgiven.

 

She says she loves me, and "if only you knew how much", but I do not see it that much. I've seen her loving me and believe me, I can tell the difference. And yes, I consider it a failure of mine. If only I had not cheated... If only I had not tried so hard to please her on everything... It was a mistake, my mistake. I had never cheated on anyone before and I will never cheat again. Honest to god, I thought that everybody single my age was doing the same thing, and being absolutely inexperienced, I thought that that was what I had to do too. A few women did it to me when I began dating. It hurt a bit (someone you've seen for two dates can't hurt you much) for the first few, then I started doing it too, it's just for sanity. I thought that when The One showed up I'd knew straight away. Not so.

People multi date in the beginning. I totally used to multi date...but when sex happens, typically that's when exclusivity should be implied. Because putting your penis in multiple women days apart is icky

So if you go out and start dating again...sex is when you stop seeing other people. If you still want to meet more women, keep it in your pants.

It just reduces risk of stis and misunderstandings.

I'm thinking maybe you're reading things into it that aren't there. She could simply be losing interest and/or the relationship has just become stale for her regardless of what did or didn't happen. She's over the cheating probably, that's true.

But this does not mean she won't or wouldn't have just lost interest in you anyways. That does happen, sometimes through no fault on the part of one or both parties.

I think you're better to break it off, to tell her it just isn't working for you, and to let her go, heal, and move on.

She may even be feeling like she should keep trying just because she is over the cheating, the whole thing of it, but doesn't feel as much for you. You also shouldn't have to be hung up on whether either of you has more power over the other. If that comes into the equation then something is wrong.

Personally, to me anyways, this just sounds like something that wasn't going to pan out regardless of what you did or didn't do. You can keep trying to revive it, but at some point talking over and over about something the other person no longer cares about is actually a giant turn off. I know, I had a friend who once wronged me. We made up and he would continually bring up what he had done, how bad he felt about it, want to talk about it.

After a time I stopped hanging out with him, not because of what he'd originally done, but because he couldn't let it go and after awhile it just got beyond boring to hear about and more than a little manipulative on his part to keep doing the whole "Wah, I wronged you, I can't forgive myself."

Just trying to give another view here.

People multi date in the beginning. I totally used to multi date...but when sex happens, typically that's when exclusivity should be implied. Because putting your penis in multiple women days apart is icky

 

So if you go out and start dating again...sex is when you stop seeing other people. If you still want to meet more women, keep it in your pants.

 

It just reduces risk of stis and misunderstandings.

I've always used protection, of course. And at least over here, sex is quite normal after a couple of dates, if not on the first. I mean, if you have sex on the first date, it's almost always guaranteed you won't get a second one. It's something like "at least I had sex". And women say that too. And loads of women are happy to just be having sex with you for a while. I know it sounds like "male paradise", but even though I think it's a good thing, it takes a toll on you on the long run.

I'm thinking maybe you're reading things into it that aren't there. She could simply be losing interest and/or the relationship has just become stale for her regardless of what did or didn't happen. She's over the cheating probably, that's true.

 

But this does not mean she won't or wouldn't have just lost interest in you anyways. That does happen, sometimes through no fault on the part of one or both parties.

 

I think you're better to break it off, to tell her it just isn't working for you, and to let her go, heal, and move on.

 

She may even be feeling like she should keep trying just because she is over the cheating, the whole thing of it, but doesn't feel as much for you. You also shouldn't have to be hung up on whether either of you has more power over the other. If that comes into the equation then something is wrong.

 

Personally, to me anyways, this just sounds like something that wasn't going to pan out regardless of what you did or didn't do. You can keep trying to revive it, but at some point talking over and over about something the other person no longer cares about is actually a giant turn off. I know, I had a friend who once wronged me. We made up and he would continually bring up what he had done, how bad he felt about it, want to talk about it.

 

After a time I stopped hanging out with him, not because of what he'd originally done, but because he couldn't let it go and after awhile it just got beyond boring to hear about and more than a little manipulative on his part to keep doing the whole "Wah, I wronged you, I can't forgive myself."

 

Just trying to give another view here.

I'm not like that, if someone tells me they're over something, I move on immediately. Specially here. She says she's over it completely, and she also says she loves me like she's loved nobody before, that she cannot even begin to imagine her life without me. But, for instance, back in the day, I could see her looking at me in ways that sent shivers down my spine. I haven't seen that look for months. It's all in the details. Maybe I'm a perfectionist and I'm hung up on those day and I should just move on and everybody will be happier. I don't know, that's why I'm debating my private life with stranger on an internet forum

What made me jolt out of my vicious circle of thinking and see the situation on a whole different light was this post. I think the Female attraction and Push/Pull Theory apply nearly 100% to my case:

Being over something is something we do for ourselves, so we don't carry around unproductive experiences. Those experiences tell us something about the people who did them. She has a knowledge of you that she wishes weren't true.

Power struggle always starts from within oneself. It indicates a vulnerability within. You mention the level of power she has, like this:

Yes, it's a power struggle, she's taken me for granted, and I don't want her to have that power, because it means I become unattractive to her.

Whatever power she has is power you've given to her, because you want to remain attractive to her. You have made it your goal that she will find you attractive. All she has to do is hint that her opinion is shifting, and you are at risk of failure.

Change your goal to something that is within your control. That you express yourself clearly, that you let her see the real you. What she thinks is up to her, based on her own reasons, and really none of your business. Only, whether in her assessment, you are who she chooses.

This need to be chosen by her makes you vulnerable to her, someone beyond your control. The power struggle reflects your desire to have control. You may win little battles, but you never will win the war because you can not control how she thinks or feels.

The need to be seen as attractive to her is quite likely related to the ease with which you cheated and also perhaps the ease with which you have sex. I have done both those things and judge neither. If you do them again, make sure it is a choice you make from a position of self respect, and not from a need to be validated by/chosen by/valued by someone else.