The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

Hi. For the past almost two years, my on/off involvement with a commitment-phobic guy has caused me great turmoil. We both have issues that cause us to push each other away and come back together repeatedly, hence the on/off nature of the whole thing. I have allowed our relationship to become practically the sole source of my happiness or misery on any given day. So I thought I would start a journal to work through the emotional ups and downs. I would really welcome any advice or feedback along the way.

 

Brief History of Relationship:

We're both in our late 30's, no kids. We met mid-summer 2014 and clicked right away. During the first nine months, he would only call us "friends" despite telling me on several occasions that he loved me. In March 2015 I found out he was seeing others, and I dropped him and immediately went NC. He came back three weeks later and said that he was in love with me, he didn't care about anyone else and he only wanted me. We became exclusive and progressed into calling it a relationship and bf/gf. Over the next six months we spent a ton of time together and got sooo close. It just about killed me when in Oct 2015, he moved four hours away for a job. We went NC shortly after he left, and he started his brand new life. Six weeks later he called saying he loved and missed me and wanted me to move there.

 

Current Situation:

We've now been "together" long-distance for almost 5 months. We talk just about every other night, and our conversations last for hours and are full of I-love-you's and I-miss-you's and talks of me moving there. But the moving hasn't happened yet. I know he's scared to take the plunge, and I'm scared too; there are practical issues to consider, as well as intimacy-related fears, on both our parts. Additionally, we keep going through a cycle where we'll talk for a couple of weeks and everything will feel great and wonderful; then just as I start to relax and trust him a bit, he'll suddenly quit calling for a few days; I get mad and upset and convince myself that things are over; he'll then call, but I'll ignore his calls for a while; finally I'll answer, he'll apologize over and over and say how much he loves me, I'll eventually soften, and we'll go back to good until the cycle repeats itself. To him, the talking schedule is all fine and dandy. He says it doesn't mean anything when he doesn't call, that he still loves me just the same. But it bothers me tremendously, and I can't just go with the flow about it. I refuse to initiate calls for the most part (because in the past he's not answered when I've called), so I just wait on him to call.

 

Despite everything, we really do love each other. I want nothing more than for this to work out and for us to be consistently happy together. We both tell each other that we've never loved anyone this much, that we believe we're soulmates, that we're messing up if we don't make this work. But I can't handle the ups and downs. It either needs to become more secure and consistent and we need to progress into me living there, or it needs to end, for my own health and sanity. I unfortunately have a lot of resentment and distrust towards him, and also a lot of guilt for acting so defensively in response.

 

So that's the story. I don't even know if we're currently on or off, so this could go either way!

For the past two days I've been feeling really guilty. Last week he had improved things by calling 5 out of 7 nights instead of his usual every-other-day. That's what I wanted, for him to call more. It's always been an issue, because I start feeling anxious and worried in between calls. The anxiety would greatly diminish if we talked every day. I've talked to him about this dozens of times, he says he understands, but then he doesn't call more. Last week he did, though. He's asked me why I never call him, and I've told him that it's because he never answers when I do, so I'm almost afraid to call (because I worry when he doesn't answer). We last talked Thursday night, skipped Friday, and I took a chance and called him Saturday evening. He didn't answer. He very well could have been sleeping, because he had to work overnight shift. But it bugs me that he can't be courteous enough to at least text later and just let me know he couldn't talk. So Sunday night when he called, I didn't answer. I was mad and hurt, and trying to teach him a lesson - if he wasn't going to answer when I call, then I won't either, to show him how it feels in hopes of him becoming more considerate. So Sunday night he called over 10x and texted a few times, and I ignored it all. The next day I felt really bad, because he had tried so hard. I sent a text saying sorry, that I had gone to bed early and that I had tried to call Saturday. This was last night (Monday). No reply of course, and he didn't call last night.

 

I know it was passive aggressive and mean of me not to answer his calls. I don't know if or when he'll call again. I don't know if he thinks I'm done, or if he's done because I've done this so many times, or if he'll call tonight and things will be just fine. I've had one foot out the door for a while now, and like I said in the first post, it needs to end if it's not going to progress. But I'm not ready for it to end over this, and for it to be my fault. He had been making more effort last week, and I appreciated that. But when he didn't answer on Saturday, I was super-sensitive to it because of the way things have gone previously.

 

I know this sounds stupid and perhaps trivial, but it's not an isolated incident. It's indicative of the larger problem.

Have you looked into getting that therapy everyone is recommending you get to help you to decide what it is you're going to do?

 

I will say that for someone who thinks not calling someone back is such a big deal, it's absolutely insane that you would do to him, what you yourself can't tolerate. Game playing isn't going to help either of you get your dysfunctional relationship on the right track.

Stop the games right now. Both of you. An honest discussion is called for. Maybe neither of you is ready for an adult relationship.

Have you looked into getting that therapy everyone is recommending you get to help you to decide what it is you're going to do?

 

I'm thinking about everything that was said in the first thread. I learned a lot. No, I haven't looked into therapy yet, but it's only been what, a few days since we talked about it? I'll get there.

 

I will say that for someone who thinks not calling someone back is such a big deal, it's absolutely insane that you would do to him, what you yourself can't tolerate.

 

I never did this, not even once, until a couple of months ago. I always answered his every single call. But after over a year of frustration and hurt over this calling issue, and after he's done it to me more times than I can count, I finally felt it was my last resort to try. I had tried everything else. I tried not making a big deal about it and just continuing on happily when he did call. I tried discussing it calmly and rationally. I tried explaining how it makes me feel. I tried venting my anger and fussing at him. I tried asking for what I need. I literally tried it all. So yes, I finally resorted to this passive-aggressive move in the hopes that he would see how it felt and would quit doing it.

 

Game playing isn't going to help either of you get your dysfunctional relationship on the right track.

I agree. I really don't know what to do in its place, but I do need to stop with the games and just answer the phone. I'm open to suggestions on how to communicate with him about this particular issue.

 

Thanks for reading, and for the comment.

. I'm open to suggestions on how to communicate with him about this particular issue.

You've tried everything. As mentioned in the other thread, you have to accept that he is who he's showing you he is and he will not change. You either can accept who he is, or you can't. If you can't accept (which you clearly cannot) then the therapy will help you with moving forward in acceptance or leaving in resolve.

 

We can only have control over ourselves. No one else.

 

Read the Serenity Prayer. Print it out and pin it to your bathroom mirror so that you read it every morning, first thing. Google it if you don't know what it is.

Stop the games right now. Both of you. An honest discussion is called for. Maybe neither of you is ready for an adult relationship.

 

Unfortunately, this is an issue. He's an alcoholic, and I have a lot of anxiety issues that hold me back in life in certain ways. So we're both emotionally immature, I will admit that. I want to do better, and that's why I'm here. He loves me and doesn't want to lose me. He says he's ready. But despite what he says, I don't think he wants to completely give up his free independent lifestyle and be accountable to anyone in any way.

 

I just hate to give up on us, give up the love and connection, just because we aren't completely ready. Couldn't we grow into it, together? I'm looking for a way to improve things. I do have to stop causing so much additional damage with things like not answering the phone.

 

Given that I've already had 50 honest discussions with him about the calling issue, I really don't know what else I can say. He agrees with it, he apologizes, he says he's been an idiot, he says he needs to talk to me every day, he says he understands. But nothing changes.

I don't see this journal lasting long.

 

There's a lot of stuff missing here. Particularly self-reflection and insight on how neither of you are really ready for a relationship.

Repeating because I think you missed it:

 

Google the "Serenity Prayer" print it out a pin it to your bathroom mirror so you read it first thing every morning until you truly understand it's meaning.

You've tried everything. As mentioned in the other thread, you have to accept that he is who he's showing you he is and he will not change. You either can accept who he is, or you can't. If you can't accept (which you clearly cannot) then the therapy will help you with moving forward in acceptance or leaving in resolve.

 

We can only have control over ourselves. No one else.

 

Read the Serenity Prayer. Print it out and pin it to your bathroom mirror so that you read it every morning, first thing. Google it if you don't know what it is.

 

I do know the Serenity Prayer. Good idea, thank you. I guess that's one of my problems - trying to control something that I can't control.

 

This journal may quickly turn into a healing-and-moving-forward journal rather than a trying-to-fix-the-relationship journal. I'm waiting to see when he next calls. If he calls soon, I'll give it one more try. If not, I'll start trying to move on and attempt to be at peace with it.

I don't see this journal lasting long.

 

There's a lot of stuff missing here. Particularly self-reflection and insight on how neither of you are really ready for a relationship.

 

I'll get to that, I promise. I just started the journal, and mainly just wanted to get the basics down to start off with, as well as the situation that I'm currently worried about. I have a hard time keeping things short, so it took me a long time of writing and editing to even get that first post up.

 

Even though I've been very resistant to ending the relationship, and wanting to try everything I can, I really do have insight. I journal constantly on my own, and spend a lot of time reading and thinking things through. I'll get to that here, gradually.

 

Repeating because I think you missed it:

 

Google the "Serenity Prayer" print it out a pin it to your bathroom mirror so you read it first thing every morning until you truly understand it's meaning.

 

I didn't miss it. I was still typing, see above post.

LOL...this is HER journal. She can keep it as short or as long as she wants. LostLove...I know I told you about my ex. WAAAAY more hot/cold than your. After 2 years, and while he was in a 'cold' spell...he met another woman.

 

I'm sure he's in a very "hot" spell at this moment.

 

It drove me crazy. Warm and fuzzy one moment...cold as ice the next. At least your bf keeps saying he loves you.

 

After mine came running back (he knew I was pulling away) and said he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, and he had said such a$$hold things to me...AND he hadn't realized they were a$$hole things...he thought they were justified...lol....he was SOOOO wonderful.

 

For one month.

 

yep...you have to realize, how long do I want to put up with this. Give him a time frame for you to move there. If it doesn't happen...move on.

 

He told me he didn't see the relationship progressing. He was looking for the future.

 

Ummmm...but last summer when the month he was with me, he said, "I guess I just like to do, what I want to do...when I want to do it. If I want to go sleep alone in a tent, I can't if you're with me".

 

The last 2 weekends he went camping overnight with her. I guess it's just fine with him now!!!

 

But yeah...make a dead line. Or he will make it some day for you.

LOL...this is HER journal. She can keep it as short or as long as she wants.

 

Lol, thanks

 

After 2 years, and while he was in a 'cold' spell...he met another woman.

What a nightmare, ugh. Sooooo sorry that you had to go through that. This is my worst fear, and would just devastate me, as I'm sure it did you.

 

At least your bf keeps saying he loves you.

Yes, at least this. He's never wavered on this. I'm lucky that he's very verbal about his feelings, and he says it often. He says it's a hard thing for him to say, and that if he says it, he means it.

 

he said, "I guess I just like to do, what I want to do...when I want to do it. If I want to go sleep alone in a tent, I can't if you're with me".

I feel like this is a major part of the problem with mine. He's extremely independent, and moves through life on his own terms. Just seems to me that you can have some degree of that AND be in a loving supportive relationship. I'm not out to smother him or tell him what to do. I think it could be worked out, if we could communicate better about it.

 

yep...you have to realize, how long do I want to put up with this. Give him a time frame for you to move there. If it doesn't happen...move on.

Hmmm, this is an idea. I don't know how to pull it off without it sounding like an ultimatum. Or without him taking advantage of it by using that time to detach from the relationship with the idea that it has an end date (did I mention I'm a bit suspicious and always expect the worst?). Or how to get him to take it seriously. This is worth some thought, though. I have to figure out when I would be ready to go there, as well. He keeps saying he'll come tomorrow, or next week, or his next day off, but it never happens. He does things impulsively when he gets ready, but I need some time to prepare.

It's interesting that you named this journal similar to your original thread, using the word commitment phobe.

We gave you feedback regarding your bfs commitment issues and you defend him to the point the thread shuts down

Just using the word (again) should answer your own question.

Not sure what the mystery is any longer.

I'll get to that, I promise. I just started the journal, and mainly just wanted to get the basics down to start off with, as well as the situation that I'm currently worried about. I have a hard time keeping things short, so it took me a long time of writing and editing to even get that first post up.

 

Even though I've been very resistant to ending the relationship, and wanting to try everything I can, I really do have insight. I journal constantly on my own, and spend a lot of time reading and thinking things through. I'll get to that here, gradually.

 

That's good that you journal on your own.

 

The point of my comment is that you focus so much on him and this relationship. If I were your mother, I would be far more concerned about how you have such debilitating anxiety (correct me if I'm wrong) that you don't work. You thus can't have an independent life. That's what you can control ... not some other person.

 

I wouldn't want to reduce the issue to deep breathing but I would also suggest you spend a lot of time practicing meditation and deep breathing for stress relief. There are many wonderful free videos on this.

It's interesting that you named this journal similar to your original thread, using the word commitment phobe.

We gave you feedback regarding your bfs commitment issues and you defend him to the point the thread shuts down

Just using the word (again) should answer your own question.

Not sure what the mystery is any longer.

 

I'm not at all sure what your point is??

This is a journal to work through my thoughts.

 

I could comment further, but will keep it to myself as I don't wish to get in an argument.

That's good that you journal on your own.

 

The point of my comment is that you focus so much on him and this relationship. If I were your mother, I would be far more concerned about how you have such debilitating anxiety (correct me if I'm wrong) that you don't work. You thus can't have an independent life. That's what you can control ... not some other person.

 

I wouldn't want to reduce the issue to deep breathing but I would also suggest you spend a lot of time practicing meditation and deep breathing for stress relief. There are many wonderful free videos on this.

 

Thanks Darcy. Point taken, and makes good sense. I guess I'm somewhat aware that I focus all my energy on him and the relationship in order to avoid facing my own problems. I didn't consciously set out to do so, but this is what it's become. My problems are scary. Anxiety is a scary thing. The future is scary to me. So I bury my head in the sand and focus on this one thing that I know could make me feel happy if the good times were more consistent. If I felt more safe and secure and consistently happy in the relationship, I could more easily focus on other things without the fear of him slipping away. To me, the day-to-day things such as working and shopping and such are necessary evils in life. Relationships are where I place my value. And because I'm an introvert and don't let too many people close, those closest to me take on significant importance. I'm not saying that this is the "correct" way to live - just being honest and trying to explain why I'm currently in this position. It does need to change, out of necessity.

Feel free to PM me.

 

I just want to give you a big hug. Sometimes people find it easier to be straightforward and not coddle. It comes off... Well you know.

 

I think exploring your thoughts is the first step. You're obviously seeking some help, insight, and guidance.

 

You can clearly see how dysfunctional this is and you've got anxiety. You love him and so your judgement isn't exactly great because your heart is the decision maker. You already understand you need to be more logical. But the heart wants what it wants.

 

I think you're on the fence and you're wanting to convince yourself to move on and be happier but then you realize you love him and all this other stuff.

When people comment asking you to leave, move on, quit it, stop that, blah blah blah.

It makes you immediately defensive because clearly you love him very much.

That's fine because that's your initial reaction.

 

It's hard to imagine a life without the person we been so use to and accustom to being around. You been living like this awhile now and it's become routine. A part of your life.

 

You're afraid of change. You're afraid of what happens in a new life without him being there in the way that he is (whatever that might be, no judgement here).

 

I want you to know that whatever you decide, make sure to list out pros and cons. I'm sure the answer is evident! But it'll be a step for you to start convincing your mind this is for the best.

Raindrop,

Thank you SO much for your comment. It really means a lot to me. The way you described what I'm feeling is exactly on target, and I couldn't have explained it better myself. It's late and I can't quote easily on my phone, so I will wait to respond to specific points tomorrow. But I wanted you to know how much I appreciate your kind understanding. Big hug back to you

 

p.s. I'm equally appreciative of the comments from the rest of you, even if I do get defensive at times. I know that some people have more of a "tough love" approach, and that's okay too. I will gratefully accept and carefully consider any input anyone is willing to give.

I haven't read your other thread(s) but based on this alone, he sounds simply uninterested in a serious relationship with you, like you're his back up plan. He's keeping you at just the right emotionally distance. When something better comes along, he'll be gone so fast you wouldn't even know what happened.

 

All it takes is some sweet nothings for you to go running back to him despite him having gone cold on you countless times (calling you "friend", started seeing someone else, moving away while in a relationship you, not talking to you for days). Do you think a guy who's into you behaves this way? Do you value reliability, emotional stability and respect? Because he's not offering any.

 

I don't know how many relationships you've been in before but this is not how healthy relationships work. There's no way this will work out, I will bet on it if I could.

I haven't read your other thread(s) but based on this alone, he sounds simply uninterested in a serious relationship with you, like you're his back up plan. He's keeping you at just the right emotionally distance. When something better comes along, he'll be gone so fast you wouldn't even know what happened.

 

Hi. Thanks for reading and commenting. It's not like this at all, though I can see why someone may think so from the limited information provided. I want to explain, but feel I'll get accused of defending him again I know without a doubt that he loves me, and is *in* love with me (as he tells me constantly, all the time, and has been saying for the past year).

 

After reading your comment, I asked my mom what she thought. (She's not reading here, she wouldn't have a clue how to find this.) She knows him. She's met him a few times, and she knows him inside-out because she's been my support system the entire time. She knows everything about him, every interaction we've ever had, every word we've exchanged. We're very close and she knows about all of it. She said she can understand why people may think as you do, because it does sound bad. But she believes he truly loves me and is just emotionally messed up. She doesn't think he always treats me right, but the love is not what is at issue. She's not sugar-coating it; we have very frank discussions about it, and she tells me exactly what she thinks. Same thing with my best friend - she also believes he does love me, but is messed up. So, there's a bit of outside perspective, but from people who fully know the situation.

 

If he were to come here and describe how I treat him at times, and the things I've done, and the way I behave, I can guarantee people would be telling him the same thing. I ended things after our first month and a half together, I've cut things off with him more times than I can count (sometimes with good reason, and sometimes not), he has to initiate 95% of all interactions, he is always the pursuer when we're on the outs and has to apologize and convince me to give it another try, I've said some horrible things to him when I'm mad, I ignored his call when he visited for Christmas and chose not to see him while he was here. It all sounds just awful when I lay it out like that. But I love him with all my heart. All of the above are defense mechanisms because of my own emotional issues. I've done wrong, he's done wrong. But we really do love each other.

 

Do you value reliability, emotional stability and respect? Because he's not offering any.

 

I don't know how many relationships you've been in before but this is not how healthy relationships work.

 

Yeah, see, I've never really had a traditional type relationship. Anything that's come close was yearssss ago. I've had to ask people, "is this 'normal'?" I would like to work towards a healthier relationship, with him if possible. Maybe everyone is right and he's not capable. Or maybe it's something we can grow into together. If I finish with him, I'm not looking to jump into anything else anytime soon. I predict that it will be at least a year if not more. I need to work on myself before I'll be any good to anyone else. But having a future healthy relationship will be a goal. I will never get into this kind of relationship again, because now I know the signs and the heartache it brings.

Mini-Update:

 

Probably not a big enough deal to make a post about, but just wanted to say in regards to my second post that he did call last night.

 

I'm not going to ignore his calls anymore. If I'm mad about something, I'll just answer and discuss it maturely, even if it gets frustrating at times. No more game-playing. He deserves the same respect that I expect out of him.

 

Tons of thoughts floating around in my head about everything, but will wait to post anything else.

It's easy for someone, ANYONE, to SAY they love you, but what has he done to show it with action?

 

Also, love is not enough to sustain a healthy relationship. "He's just messed up" is the excuse you tell yourself and others to keep holding on to something that's not working. So what if he's messed up? If he has issues he needs to work on that himself, not to be a relationship and put someone else through pain. He's not a project that just a bit more work on your side would fix up. The crucial elements of a healthy relationship is missing here, you are meant to be able to go to sleep every day knowing that you are in a relationship with someone that loves you and they will still be there when you wake up, every single day, there's no on or off days. You don't even know if you're on or off right now! The moment you relaxes and gets comfortable, he goes cold (or off) again! That is not normal at all.

 

I don't know why your close ones aren't telling you to leave him. If it was my dad (whom I'm close to), he would've advised me to leave long ago. You're wasting your time with this guy.

It's easy for someone, ANYONE, to SAY they love you, but what has he done to show it with action?

 

Also, love is not enough to sustain a healthy relationship. "He's just messed up" is the excuse you tell yourself and others to keep holding on to something that's not working. So what if he's messed up? If he has issues he needs to work on that himself, not to be a relationship and put someone else through pain. He's not a project that just a bit more work on your side would fix up. The crucial elements of a healthy relationship is missing here, you are meant to be able to go to sleep every day knowing that you are in a relationship with someone that loves you and they will still be there when you wake up, every single day, there's no on or off days. You don't even know if you're on or off right now! The moment you relaxes and gets comfortable, he goes cold (or off) again! That is not normal at all.

 

I don't know why your close ones aren't telling you to leave him. If it was my dad (whom I'm close to), he would've advised me to leave long ago. You're wasting your time with this guy.

 

Hi again. Thanks for your thoughts. It would be nice if it were a healthy, consistent, reliable relationship. But I love him. I would rather have him than a healthy relationship with someone I wasn't as into. I'm sure that maybe some day I could find both in the same person. Well.... actually on second thought, I can say that, but it's really not so easy to find someone you really like and click with and can fall in love with.

 

You don't even know if you're on or off right now!

We're on. When I said that, it was because I thought maybe he would have finally gotten fed up with me not answering the phone. And honestly, all these times I feel we're off, he apparently doesn't think so (until I get mad and refuse to talk to him). He never gets mad at me or says it's over. It's just the not calling which makes me go through a breakup in my own mind, totally unbeknownst to him until he tries to call. A guy on my second thread said that he used to be really bad at communicating because he really didn't feel it was important. His girlfriend told him things had to change or she had to leave - that's what it took for him to change.

 

He called again last night and we talked for four hours. We were talking about me going there. I said maybe we could just try it for a little while to take the pressure off, and he said it's not the pressure, it's just the doing it (driving up here to get me - he works 6 days a week, so it would be an 8 hour round trip in one day). He asked me why I don't just drive down to be with him. Unfortunately, I don't have my own car (I drive my dad's) and I have driving anxiety. He doesn't really understand the driving anxiety because he's never felt it.

 

I really need to explore my own contribution to my own misery at some point soon here. As soon as he doesn't call as expected, I get angry and depressed and convince myself it's over and spend a lot of time thinking negatively. By the time he calls, I either won't answer the phone or I fuss at him for two hours. His feelings don't change - he's always just as loving every time we talk. I'm lucky that he's forgiving and understanding and let's things roll off his shoulders, given the way I act sometimes. I'm not meaning to put all the blame on myself, just looking at my own side of things since that's apparently the only thing I can change.

 

I don't know why your close ones aren't telling you to leave him. If it was my dad (whom I'm close to), he would've advised me to leave long ago.

They know we love each other. They don't like a lot of it, but they don't have anything against him personally, and they support me whichever direction I go. My dad will even call me out on some of my own destructive behaviors, which I appreciate because I do it out of habit and defense and don't always realize the destructiveness of what I'm doing.

 

I've been busy the past couple days and will be for the next few, but I'll make another entry pretty soon and try to focus on some of the things I need to work on within myself. He and I are really good right now. He's been calling more the past couple of weeks, so that is nice. He's trying.

What are you doing about your debilitating anxiety? I can't recall - are you seeing a therapist?