Should I go to HR or the next manager in line?

I'll try to be brief, but it's not my strong suit, lol.

I transferred to another location about 8 months ago. There have been some trying times, but overall I really like my job and my manager. But. I've been called into my manager's manager's office 3 times now due to complaints from a coworker.

The coworker started about 2 months after I did. I'm often asked to train her on things, which is fine. We are the same level, pay range, and considered to have the same experience. We are also both considered to be the "rock stars".

Every time I am asked to train her, or answer her questions (even about things that don't relate to my work), she goes to my manager's manager and complains about me. This manager ends up calling me into his office and chewing me out.

The first time I trained her was my first time completing the task, and I was given 15 minutes notice. My training wasn't good enough, she said. (Although she was able to complete that task independently the next day.)

The second time she complained because there was an emergency after I'd left the office that she had to handle. She called me at home, and I talked her through the task. It took 10 minutes. I offered to go back to the office, but she said she was fine. I was chewed out for that.

The third time was this week. She said that I refused to meet with her to answer questions on a project of hers.

The manager told me that she and I have a problem. He kept saying that we have to coexist. He said this every time I said anything, or asked a question.

I told him that I don't have a problem with her, and so I've never complained. (Coexist.)

I explained that we do have a meeting on the calendar to discuss her task. (Coexist.)

I asked what I could've done differently in any of these situations. (Coexist.)

You get the drift.

I also told him

*that no one has asked me if I feel I've mastered things well enough to train someone else.

*that she doesn't explain how she would prefer to be trained.

*that when I ask her how I can do things differently for her, she has no response.

*that a meeting was set up for Feb when both she and I have finished our monthly deadlines

He wasn't concerned about the meeting thing, even though she blatantly lied about me. He knew I would never deny something like that. - He was my customer for a year, he's the one who pushed hard to get me to relocate to work for him.

He kept on with the coexist thing, which I finally said was meaningless for me.

I asked if I'd behaved unprofessionally? No.

Had I been mean or inappropriate in some way? No.

Had I addressed her questions every time she asked? Yes.

Had I trained her to the best of my ability? Yes.

I said that I fail to see how I am the problem, or how I could modify my behavior in any way to satisfy her. I went on to say that I've asked both of them for ways I could resolve it, and neither of them has an answer for me. And so my problem is not with this woman, but with being "talked to" repeatedly when I've done nothing wrong. I explained I had no take-away from these meetings except to avoid this woman whenever possible.

He said that wouldn't work because he wants his rock stars to work together and coexist. I said that was up to him. He gets to decide if a complaint is valid or not, and if so, what is the remedy? And then talk with me. But if the complaint is not valid, and there's nothing wrong on my part, don't pass it down.

I also said that the idea that we never do anything new is not appropriate to our level - we have the "senior" on our titles because we're experienced. The expectation is that we can learn things ourselves, and can handle emergencies when they arise. Since she and I are exactly the same in title, pay, etc, there is no expectation that I learn everything and then train her. She has to do her part as well.

As for meeting with her, she wanted to meet that day. I had deadlines that week, and I'd just returned from a week-long business trip which puts me behind. Her deadline is 3 months from now. Meeting her that day was not a reasonable request. (He went with me on this but only because I had 2 hot deadlines come in that directly affected him.)

He said that all of my points were valid, and then went to speak with her. I don't know or care what happened there, but since then she scrunches up her face glaring at me constantly. I'm trying really hard not to laugh - it looks like it's actually hurting her face, and what, are we 5 years old? But I don't laugh because I'm certainly not 5. lol

I am transitioning work over to her this month. This manager spoke to both of us together about it to make sure we're on the same page. He asked if I was going to pass off intercompany to her. I said yes, as it's part of those duties. He then asked her, "Do you have time to do that?" I was stunned!! I've been doing her job and mine since I started, and he's never asked me once if I had time. My analysts have been asking him to please take things off my desk so I can focus on my job. I've had to implement a new system by myself that no one knows. I've been overloaded, and although I've discussed this with him, he's never once asked if I have time. In fact, he tells me that unless I work from 7am to 7pm with no lunch, I'm not busy.

Thankfully I didn't explode and punch him in the face. I just stood there. But he's just set me up to keep doing her work.

I know she will complain again. This is personal for her. He caters to her every whim, so he will be giving me the coexist lecture again.

My question is this - do I go to his boss next, or to HR? His boss is new - she started about 9 months ago. I know he's trying to impress her, because that's normal. I don't want to ruin anything for him, but these double standards and crazy lectures have got to stop. He also needs to fill other people's requests...like mine. I have bed bugs in my cubicle. He's seen them. He refuses to call maintenance. And we work in a hospital. (Sigh)

You go to HR with everything you have put here with your questions and his responses.

Get it on record. Do not go over his head.

Unless something illegal is going on, I don't think it's ever a good idea to leapfrog the chain.

You may not believe it, but your boss is addressing you because he very obviously feels like you're much more competent than she is and have a much better professional and social tool set to alleviate the situation. Him asking her whether she has the time and not you isn't about him thinking she's got a larger work load, but him not questioning your ability to handle yours, regardless of the disproportionate amount of work he throws at you.

I'm by no means saying it's fair, but it's certainly not personal.

We are also both considered to be the "rock stars".

Why 2 rock stars? How does that work? If you are part of the same team, don't you want to be a "rock group"? Different than co-existing, that would be about working together to make good music despite any differences or power struggles.

Good luck! If she feels her training isn't good enough, why she doesn't come to you?

Hell_on_Heels,

I have been reading your other thread as well. I am not sure whether this is a place you would like to stay. I have a couple of questions:

Does your co-worker complain to you about the training or only to your manager?

Is training a part of your job description?

Why do you have to train her in the first place when you are supposed to be on the same level and you only started 2 months before her?

Who trained you when you started?

As for the bed bugs in your cubicle, this is just disgusting. Call maintenance yourself, sometimes you simply have to find solutions yourself.

I once had a co-worker who needed a lot of assistance with accounting matters. She was not an accountant by training, but she was hired for the job anyway. I helped her out whenever I could. We were working for clients and we had to write our time. For training of staff, we had a special code, so I would register my time on this special code when I helped her. My manager was aware of the fact that I helped her a lot. At her annual review, my co-worker was told that she needed to step up and work more independent. It was mentioned that I helped her out a lot. When she got out of that annual review meeting, she was upset with me, because I used the training code on my time sheet. I asked her where I should put my time if I was helping her. She said to book it on the client I was just working on. WHAT? My client has to pay for time I spent for training a co-worker? That was the last time I helped her. I continued to be friendly, but the next time she asked me for help, I said I was working on a deadline and I had to finish my job. She got the message and never asked again, she left her job a few months later.

Blur Skirt, wow, the balls on your former coworker. "I'm angry at you because you didn't commit time card fraud to make ME look better". The entitlement of some people is just sickening.

Blur Skirt, wow, the balls on your former coworker. "I'm angry at you because you didn't commit time card fraud to make ME look better". The entitlement of some people is just sickening.

The company should have never hired her in the first place, she did not have the skills and qualifications for that job. She also had no sense for money. She came from a wealthy family and she was used to always having money as if it was growing on trees.

I once stayed late with her on a Friday night. She had messed up everything in the investment module of the accounting system and she did not know how to get it right. The more corrections she tried to book, the messier it got. I was looking at it and I could not figure out what she had done, in fact it would have taken up too much time. So I deleted everything she did and entered everything again and all was right. It took me a few hours. And then later you get a comment like that, no thanks.

I've had it up to here *gestures with hand* with young, entitled people. I was ecstatic when we had two people quit last year that were like this. Both were young and out of college which isn't bad within itself but they were just so entitled, no common sense, etc.

You were fair nicer than I would have been. I'm definitely not a rule stickler at all but things like fraud bother the crap put of me. I wouldn't have been able to help myself and would have said "That's fraud. How would YOU feel if you were a client and were charged extra just to cover the company's cost of training an unrelated employee?"

Absolute bullocks.

He kept on with the coexist thing, which I finally said was meaningless for me.

I asked if I'd behaved unprofessionally? No.

Had I been mean or inappropriate in some way? No.

Had I addressed her questions every time she asked? Yes.

Had I trained her to the best of my ability? Yes.

 

I said that I fail to see how I am the problem, or how I could modify my behavior in any way to satisfy her. I went on to say that I've asked both of them for ways I could resolve it, and neither of them has an answer for me. And so my problem is not with this woman, but with being "talked to" repeatedly when I've done nothing wrong. I explained I had no take-away from these meetings except to avoid this woman whenever possible.

I'm sorry this is so stupid of them. So you're doing something wrong but they don't suggest any way for you to fix it? Honestly, I really think that type-A women just don't get along together, and especially if you are both 'rock-stars.' Unfortunately, strong women can sometimes intimidate other women and then it just gets catty.

I don't know what to tell you except to go to HR and tell them that you've had some complaints but it's not clear what the problem is or how to fix it and see what they have. "Co-exist" is not really a solution because it seems like that's what you're doing?

The solution is not go to HR. That is not getting you anywhere fast, other than the bad list. The solution is within. How do you work together? How do you wash your hands of it?

I will think more and give you more detailed suggestions.

After thinking about this for a bit and rereading what you wrote, I think your tilting at windmills here. As in, you have to think about the game you have to play and what he means by "coexist".

Here's what I would do if I were you: don't play this game.

Are you required to train her? Is that your responsibility? Sounds like his. I would wash my hands of that. If not, get rid of her, as soon as she can be on her own.

You are not responsible for her after that. That's your bosses responsibility.

Put everything back on her. You don't have to help her do.her work. She misses a meeting, don't worry about it. Just note you had it scheduled. It's you putting in a boundary. That's it. She is the type who will mess herself up. Give her the rope to hang herself. Let her do that. You come across as the professional one. Make sure your work is solid. Complaints to HR make you look like a troubled employee and not a team player. It is not the Avenue to fix this. Working on your boss in a way to show how she isn't all that is the key. It's not about winning this battle, it's about winning the war. What is your strategy on how to neutralize her? She is playing checkers. You must play chess. Think out your moves. Sometimes when you work, you have to ready to "bloody" someone else. She sounds like a passive agressive bully. You must be bold!

Within the working world it is a game of gotcha these days. The first person to complain is the winner and it places you on the defensive. You want to be on the offensive and hit her back hard. When the time is right.

In my world, I destroy someone who acts like this. It may take me time, but there is always a way to trip up someone who acts like this.

This is why your boy j.man doesn't work without a contract and doesn't do a single thing not specified within it.

I like movingforward advice. Wash your hands of her. Don't train her, don't get involved, don't talk to her outside of what is absolutely necessary.

I got 2 (two!!) stupid, entitled people at my job to quit within months of starting because I decided to mind my own business and kept to myself. After I was done training them, I backed off. I did not help them with their work when they slacked off, I did not cut corners, I did not switch shifts with them when they asked me, and I offered to work a terrible work schedule knowing full well that they also would be forced to work a terrible work schedule as well. Because I refused to work all nights, so they would have to work some too. Fair's fair, you know?

End result: I looked awesome and helpful to my boss. They both flamed out in 2 months and were terminated. My shifts are back to what I wanted and we hired better people in their place who I trained and respect.

I got what I wanted, no HR needed. Trust me, idiots hang themselves, they don't need your help! Just give them enough space and rope and they will do it themselves.

Why 2 rock stars? How does that work? If you are part of the same team, don't you want to be a "rock group"? Different than co-existing, that would be about working together to make good music despite any differences or power struggles.

 

Good luck! If she feels her training isn't good enough, why she doesn't come to you?

This woman is a complainer. Period. She complains about everyone, but I am her main target. Although I was friendly and supportive when she first started, I've since switched to professionally friendly. I've point blank asked her to direct me on her training because not everyone learns the same way. She says nothing to me, but criticizes me to management instead.

I'm positive she will hang herself eventually - she wrote a blistering email complaint about the IT guy who gave her a laptop the other day. She's looney.

What I don't appreciate is being the whipping boy. It seems to happen to me a lot, and I'm not sure how I get myself into these situations.

Hell_on_Heels,

 

I have been reading your other thread as well. I am not sure whether this is a place you would like to stay. I have a couple of questions:

Does your co-worker complain to you about the training or only to your manager?

Is training a part of your job description?

Why do you have to train her in the first place when you are supposed to be on the same level and you only started 2 months before her?

Who trained you when you started?

 

As for the bed bugs in your cubicle, this is just disgusting. Call maintenance yourself, sometimes you simply have to find solutions yourself.

The coworker complains only to the manager, never to me, even when I ask for feedback.

Training is not part of my job description.

I train when my manager's ask me to. And they ask a lot. I was voted best trainer in the company at my last location. I usually enjoy it.

No one trained me - I had to email, call, read, and research to learn these tasks. Since I've already gone through those steps, I don't believe she needs to repeat them. That's a major waste of time, duplication. However, I keep getting pulled off my own job in order to do all these other tasks that are assigned to her. I learn it first, teach it to her, she complains, and so on. And my own job goes on the back burner, because I can't handle more than 12 hours a day.

On the bed bug thing. Normally I would call maintenance myself. Since we work in a hospital, I figured management would want to handle it, discreetly. The point here is that he's neglecting things that he should be doing in order to have these fruitless talks with me.

And I agree with you about your coworker - WHAT??!! I wouldn't have billed the client either.

The next time your manager asks you to train your co-worker you tell him that apparently you “suck at training people” because your co-worker is complaining all the time. You tell him it is not part of your job description and that you have to manage your own deadlines. Tell him how you started your work and what you did to get into your job, that you found your way yourself.

The next time your manager asks you to train your co-worker you tell him that apparently you “suck at training people” because your co-worker is complaining all the time. You tell him it is not part of your job description and that you have to manage your own deadlines. Tell him how you started your work and what you did to get into your job, that you found your way yourself.

Would that be insubordination? I don't know, I don't work in this kind of setting so the whole dynamic in this situation, and some of the approaches suggested (esp. " destroy someone who acts like this"), are foreign to me. I'm curious about it, and what ultimately works best for the OP.

I don’t see this as insubordination. First of all training is not part of her job description. But whenever she was asked in the past she has done it. So far so good. Now all the time when she trains this new person, this new person complains to the manager and then the manager calls the OP in his office.

I am a very patient person, but at some point of time, you have to think about yourself as well. So telling her manager that she can’t do training anymore because apparently as per her co-worker, she is not the right person to give training. I think it is the responsibility of the manager in the first place to do the training. Also the OP did not receive any training herself and still gets her job done, by finding out things herself.

Training is not part of my job description.

 

I train when my manager's ask me to. And they ask a lot. I was voted best trainer in the company at my last location. I usually enjoy it.

 

No one trained me - I had to email, call, read, and research to learn these tasks. Since I've already gone through those steps, I don't believe she needs to repeat them. That's a major waste of time, duplication. However, I keep getting pulled off my own job in order to do all these other tasks that are assigned to her. I learn it first, teach it to her, she complains, and so on. And my own job goes on the back burner, because I can't handle more than 12 hours a day.

Maybe the next step, should her training come up again, suggest to the boss that you'd be happy to outline to her how you've trained yourself to find the answers, as you were not trained and have been able to learn without interrupting anyone else's workflow. Get his approval on this, and then be explicit with the co-worker that this is how to do it and it is the best way for her to find the solutions that will make the most sense to her.

Or if she feels she needs training, have her send you a list outlining her needs, and schedule her in at your convenience. Stick to your priorities for your job responsibilities, when your boss requests you to train her more, you can review your priorities with him and where you can put her needs in the line. Train her according to her list, reviewing and checking them off with her, and have her initial the list that she has no more questions. I think she needs to know how to find her own answers, though. It's great sharing what you know, but it ultimately isn't working well for either of you.

I think you can portray to your boss that you are coexisting AND keeping the best interests of the clients and company.

Just suggestions. Not sure if they'll fit with your situation. Good luck!

I'm sorry this is so stupid of them. So you're doing something wrong but they don't suggest any way for you to fix it? Honestly, I really think that type-A women just don't get along together, and especially if you are both 'rock-stars.' Unfortunately, strong women can sometimes intimidate other women and then it just gets catty.

 

I don't know what to tell you except to go to HR and tell them that you've had some complaints but it's not clear what the problem is or how to fix it and see what they have. "Co-exist" is not really a solution because it seems like that's what you're doing?

I have to laugh a bit at myself. I do realize that I can be highly annoying to those who take work personally. I view people at work through 2 scopes - I may think someone is a terrific worker, but not like them enough to hang out on weekends. I may hang out on weekends, but not have a high regard for their work. Sometimes it's both, and sometimes it's none of the above, lol.

I do make sure that I am friendly and approachable to everyone. I work at that.

I am very confident on the job, and I don't apologize for it. I have no interest in being a rock star. I want to go in each day, do a great job, and go home to enjoy the other part of my life.

And that whole combination can be very annoying for some people, like this coworker. To her, everything is a fight. Who does the manager like best? Who gets praised the most? I don't care about those things, and she's in the process of figuring that out. Her mind keeps rejecting it - you can see it on her face. She's not capable of judging me. She assumes I will do what she would do. The few moments that fact does occur to her seems to evoke horror and more hatred for me. Because, really, what is worse than being ignored by the person you hate? Or love? (Just a general life question there.)

So I realize that being who I am is causing a problem for her, but it's nothing I can change or would want to change about myself. At some point she must learn that other employees are not there for her exclusive benefit, and that we are not subject to her criticisms, but only those of our managers. My immediate manager is happy with me, and thinks her behavior needs to be shut down. But he is not her manager, and her own manager is ignoring the situation.

It's the controller who is allowing all of this, and I can't get a finger on his motives.

First of all training is not part of her job description.

True, but does any job strictly follow the original job description over time? Business fluctuates and changes. She can ask for a new job description and compensation for the added responsibilities (rather than outright refusing or stooping to the co-worker's level).

Unless something illegal is going on, I don't think it's ever a good idea to leapfrog the chain.

 

You may not believe it, but your boss is addressing you because he very obviously feels like you're much more competent than she is and have a much better professional and social tool set to alleviate the situation. Him asking her whether she has the time and not you isn't about him thinking she's got a larger work load, but him not questioning your ability to handle yours, regardless of the disproportionate amount of work he throws at you.

 

I'm by no means saying it's fair, but it's certainly not personal.

Thank you for this. I think what you've said is spot on. I am definitely dependable, and will do what it takes to make our deadlines and produce great work.

I'm beginning to think that makes me stupid.

I'm most concerned about my record, my review, and my workload. The controller has a history of "not remembering" anything that he doesn't want to remember, such as we've already agreed I'm doing everything I've been asked and in a professional manner. So that could easily bite me in reviews. And of course, once you start working 60 hour weeks, it's extremely difficult to reduce your hours back down to a reasonable 48. I see no reason for me to be killing myself when I'm the only non-management person expected to work those hours.

There is a point where more hours is unproductive, more harmful than good. If my desk was in good shape, I'd probably be able to work more, although I don't want to. But as it stands, the desk I inherited was a mess going back 5 years, plus we've implemented a new software system that no one knows. I don't complain about that - I love this kind of stuff! I'm pleased to say that I've made a major breakthrough, and - if allowed to focus on it - my desk will be balanced and smooth within 6 months.

At that point, I can certainly pick up more tasks for other people. I've been trying to sell this point to the controller. He thinks I can do both at the same time.

...my job is very loud. The CFO, the hospital presidents, and the executives at our home office all see my results on a regular basis. You'd think this would be an easy sell - let me focus on my work, so I can make you shine. He wants the shine part, but wont give anything in exchange.

Thoughts on how I can resolve that would be awesome.

Journeynow, I agree with you and I think wherever you work, you always need to be flexible. But OP has only started her job not too long ago herself. OP has shown her flexibility, but it is working against her. Her co-worker is complaining about the training all the time. I think OP should make things clear and put the training responsibility back on the desk where it belongs, that is at the desk of her manager. I would not even want to be paid more to do a job, where people would be complaining all the time.

I have been working office jobs all my life and I have had some nasty experiences with training people myself, even though it was not part of my responsibility either. I also used to do things which were not part of my responsibilities, but yes, you want to move forward in your job, you want to step up, so you just do what has to be done. And as long as everything goes well, your manager won’t say anything, they are secretly happy that you do it. But once something goes wrong or is not done the correct way, or you have troubles with it and need some help, then you hear the words: “Well, I never asked you to do it in the first place”.

True, but does any job strictly follow the original job description over time? Business fluctuates and changes. She can ask for a new job description and compensation for the added responsibilities (rather than outright refusing or stooping to the co-worker's level).

I've been following this conversation I ask the same questions.

Every job description has that caveat "other duties as assigned". Nice and vague. They can basically throw anything at you, and say it's covered with that phrase.

I love training people. And generally, I'm very good at it. The only people who don't like my training are the people who refuse to own their work. With advance warning of needing to train someone, I provide screen shots to walk you through every single step. A monkey could do it. But I also tell you what it does, why you're doing it, and who is affected by it. When I'm through with you, lol, you will know it well and hopefully enjoy it. I will also find the leanest, most efficient way to get there.

With this coworker, I get 15 minutes notice, and I'm frequently still training myself on it. I'm ok with that, as we both have enough experience to handle it. But it's not wrapped up the way she likes it, although she refuses to state how she likes it.

I'm flexible - you tell me how you learn best, and what time of day you learn best. My view of training is to empower you to master the task. She's refusing. And the controller is backing her. That's what's killing me. It's not logical or reasonable, and I have no respect for that.

I believe it would be very bad for my reputation and future if I asked to quit training her. I don't see how I could defend that stance to the CFO or the executives. Maybe I need to ask questions about her accountability? Agree to train her, and put my responses to those attack meetings in writing for my record?

In order to help me, my direct manager has asked me for a list of accomplishments and efficiencies by month. Many of those accomplishments don't relate to my job. So it would demonstrate that I'm helpful and a team player. It would also show that I need time to focus on my work in order to finish the goals set for my desk.

Kinda thinking out loud here.

Document EVERYTHING:

Your conversations with him.

Your time/hours spent training Ber.

Your accomplished tasks and goals.

His response to hour concerns a d problems.

I had to do this once, and when I walked I to an HR meeting g because I was going g to be "reprimanded", I took out my legal pad of notes. The person asked "what is that?"

On, its a log of every conversation and response I have gotten from A since this issue started. In addition, it logs my accomplishments and production OUTSIDE of my JOB rescription.

HR sent me home for the rest of the day, told me they would benspeaking with my boss and that should any further.problems arise...come.directly to them.