The battle of the generations....

First off, I will try not to "stir the pot" too much with the points in this post. There are forums where you can do that without any consequence, but those forums aren't really "mainstream" ones that have viewers from a variety of ethnic, age, socioeconomic, religious, etc. backgrounds.

 

I am approaching 30, but have been in the post undergrad workforce for long enough to notice a few things and also formulate a few questions. My path has been a winding one with many different companies in a few states, so I have seen quite a bit.

 

Let us first start of with this premise: Higher education (i.e. greater than high school) is not solely meant to benefit the individual that received said education, but rather society as a whole.

 

Such premise would seem to make sense logically as a more educated person would likely make better choices about his own health, avoid doing things that are criminal, volunteer in his community, etc.

 

Thus, I wonder about some things I have seen....

 

1. Why is it that some older folks (40s, 50s+) seem to be 'intimidated' by younger people who have more education than them?
   
2. Should not they be glad that their son or daughter learned more about the world and a specific major than they did?
   
3. Being educated does not mean one is intelligent and it certainly does not mean one has experience specific to the workplace, but the attainment of a Bachelors degree or higher (especially in STEM fields) should mean something???
   

 

The reason I ask these questions is I have seen first hand (i.e. comments from coworkers in charge of hiring decisions) and read a lot about how sometimes young, passionate, highly educated people are not hired because they are too intimidating to the "status quo".... The status quo being people from Gen X or earlier who did not have much education, but are in higher positions at a company because they were there for 15-20+ years.... What are they so afraid of? Is it that the older generation worries about being replaced by the younger generation and thus must try to keep the younger generation down as much as possible - make them pay their dues so to speak? Such does not seem out of the realm of possibility given the poor state of the economy for much of this millennium.

 

Higher education is supposed to be a blessing in that it produces well rounded people and by doing so likely makes everyone's world better..... It shouldn't be something that people are envious and spiteful of... Who but scientists and engineers are going to design the products that you take for granted and that which make your life easier/happier/etc.?

 

 

 

If it were me, I would not be intimidated by anyone's educational credentials because I know first hand that having a degree doesn't prove intelligence.... At the technical college I went to in Massachusetts, there were some people in engineering programs that I would no trust to design a better light bulb!!! Then again, I may worked with some brilliantly minded people (including the receptionist at one company I interned at) who did not have a degree, but were self-taught or naturally gifted with high intelligence and problem solving/new idea generation skills.

 

 

Note that this does not concern me directly as I have a technical job that is low stress and which I am happy with... I just need people's opinions....

I am 49 and highly educated as is my husband (late 40s as well). We are not at all intimidated by people with even more/better education -I'm psyched about it actually. What I do notice and have noticed for many years are people in their 20s who pooh pooh education as "just a piece of paper".

I am not intimidated by younger people. I am 49 as well. I would say the majority of my generation is educated beyond Highschool .

Not sure what field you are referring to but where I work we hire the best and brightest we can. A business would be stupid not to.

 

I work in information technology and have never seen anyone not hired because the employer or hiring agent was intimidated by the prospective employees educational credentials.

[*]Why is it that some older folks (40s, 50s+) seem to be 'intimidated' by younger people who have more education than them?

 

I'm pretty sure you are confusing intimidation with lack of experience and knowledge. Education does NOT give you experience or knowledge, it simply teaches you ideas....which you won't experience or know in greater detail until later years.

 

Should not they be glad that their son or daughter learned more about the world and a specific major than they did?

 

What made you come to this conclusion? Do you really think our education system is better than it used to be? Last time I checked US education system has been going down hill for YEARS.

 

Being educated does not mean one is intelligent and it certainly does not mean one has experience specific to the workplace, but the attainment of a Bachelors degree or higher (especially in STEM fields) should mean something???

 

IT means NOTHING. Bachelors degree is equivalent of a high school diploma. They have simply convinced people like you that paying 100K for high school diploma is worth it (mind you it still is to some extent).

 

 

The reason I ask these questions is I have seen first hand (i.e. comments from coworkers in charge of hiring decisions) and read a lot about how sometimes young, passionate, highly educated people are not hired because they are too intimidating to the "status quo".... The status quo being people from Gen X or earlier who did not have much education, but are in higher positions at a company because they were there for 15-20+ years.... What are they so afraid of? Is it that the older generation worries about being replaced by the younger generation and thus must try to keep the younger generation down as much as possible - make them pay their dues so to speak? Such does not seem out of the realm of possibility given the poor state of the economy for much of this millennium.

 

Higher education is supposed to be a blessing in that it produces well rounded people and by doing so likely makes everyone's world better..... It shouldn't be something that people are envious and spiteful of... Who but scientists and engineers are going to design the products that you take for granted and that which make your life easier/happier/etc.?

 

If it were me, I would not be intimidated by anyone's educational credentials because I know first hand that having a degree doesn't prove intelligence.... At the technical college I went to in Massachusetts, there were some people in engineering programs that I would no trust to design a better light bulb!!! Then again, I may worked with some brilliantly minded people (including the receptionist at one company I interned at) who did not have a degree, but were self-taught or naturally gifted with high intelligence and problem solving/new idea generation skills.

 

Note that this does not concern me directly as I have a technical job that is low stress and which I am happy with... I just need people's opinions....

 

Well, first thing you need to accept and recognize (something you should have already learned by 30) is that "BOOK SMART" does not = "SMART". Just like success or wealth does not = smart (although I'm sure there is SOME level of intelligence there).

 

And Experience TRUMPS education/learning.

 

Let me give you an example. Let's say you are a CEO of a company and you are hiring someone. Do you take

a) someone with tons of education but no experience

or

b) someone with tons of experience but no education

 

I think what's REALLY happening with you is that.

a) YOU are intimidated by EXPERIENCE and you are simply mirroring your feelings onto others (common human trait). And you SHOULD be by default. Someone that has experience OVER you SHOULD be intimidating.

b)You assume kids today are getting better education than your generation, which is false

c) you assume that your overpriced education is worth something. Sure, plenty of companies value your effort and money you spent to get that, but let's be real. Everyone and their mother has BA these days (modern day equivalent to high school diploma). You see, back 20-30 years ago getting BA degree was HARD WORK and it was reserved for special people that had certain intellectual levels and drive. It all changed when schools figured out that they can make WAY more money by getting everyone into the school. And now, EVERYONE has it, THUS it devalues what BA stands for and IS. Also, fact that you used to have to EARN it and it was a privilege doesn't help. Today, just about ANYONE can obtain BA pretty easily. It's NO LONGER reserved for "those special people", it's common and normal for every day person to have it.

 

Employers know this (smart ones anyways). And many adjusted accordingly and now value EXPERIENCE over EDUCATION.

 

As they SHOULD.

 

I've been in 3 careers, dozen + places and have worked with fortune 100 companies for over a decade now. All of it with NO DEGREE.

 

Most people I work with and have worked with over the years that have a BA or Masters etc, do NOTHING related to what they went to school for. Not even close hehe. Think of BA as a "checkbox" that tells the employer that you had ambition and hard work to make something out of yourself (something = irrelevant).

 

Welcome to real world.

I am 49 and highly educated as is my husband (late 40s as well). We are not at all intimidated by people with even more/better education -I'm psyched about it actually. What I do notice and have noticed for many years are people in their 20s who pooh pooh education as "just a piece of paper".

 

Blame the schools! But at the same time, they ARE a business. Clearly in order to pump out MORE, something had to give >>>>>education + quality

 

 

My mom was a company CEO by 35 with nothing more than a high school education. She gave at least 5000 people the opportunity of a job. Back in the 80s she personally made that company it's first million dollars. ( of course that's nothing now but that was an outstanding achievement then)

 

She never felt threatened or intimidated by anyone and only wanted to offer people opportunity.

Ok I fit your age demographic and I'm not intimidated by younger people with degrees. Both of my kids have college degrees and I am proud of them for achieving their goals. My brother has a PhD in psychology and I'm not intimidated by that either. More power to him for getting his degree.

 

We are small business owners and have had many young people as employees, mainly in the summer. Most kids are very motivated to make something out of themselves, and they were all good employees.

 

A big education doesnt make anyone better, you gain the knowledge in school but you then have to get the experience which can be the hard part.

 

I take people as they come, there's good and bad, smart and not so smart, in all age groups.

Yes , my son is in college right now and I'm over the moon! It is such a fabulous achievement for him being that he has autism and two learning disabilities.

 

I got my honours BA about 25 years ago so did my brother. As did my husband. And one of my cousins is a professor of psychology at a major university. Shrug. Like others I just take people for who they are.

I'm 21 and I find the older (50-60) women in my company pick on my work and how I do things. I work in mental health and they say I'm too young but actually I work really hard and service users are really responsive to me, maybe more so than the older staff. I've decided to 'learn whilst on the job' so to speak so I will always have experience along with qualifications in what I do- if I went to university and straight into what I'm doing now I think I definitely would of freaked out and not wanted to do it. Paper and exams doesn't teach you the people skills to do my line of work.. But that's just for what I do.

I didn't finish my 4-year nor do I have plans to until it becomes absolutely necessary. If I'm anything like the old people I think you're describing, it isn't that we're intimidated by educated people, but rather the disproportionate weight being placed on a degree. You add to it the sense of entitlement that's coming out of a lot of college graduates these days (not that I can 100% blame them given the price tag) and, to me, it's a very concerning wave of professional candidates that's currently sweeping through.

 

A degree should only mean as much as the person who holds it can apply it. Unfortunately, this isn't the 60s, 70s, or 80s anymore and great stories such as Victoria's mother are few and far between.

 

I'd certainly never discourage someone from pursuing a higher education. I come from a place where graduating high school is considered a big accomplishment and I'd never heard of "career counseling" until I was 23. I know I'm lucky to be in the position I'm in without a higher education. I'm a contractor who competes regularly against people who have one. A practical degree certainly opens up many windows.

 

But we simply place too much intrinsic value on a piece of paper. If I'm honest, the bulk of the smartest people I know never stepped foot in a university classroom, and I work 12 hours a day on campuses all around NYC.

Should not they be glad that their son or daughter learned more about the world

 

Obvious point, but a degree does not actually teach you about the world. Living does that.

 

Such premise would seem to make sense logically as a more educated person would likely make better choices about his own health, avoid doing things that are criminal, volunteer in his community, etc.

 

You're confusing education level with class and finances. Better financial levels take you out of areas where you are more likely to be brought into contact with crime, it also takes you out of the zone where you can only afford to buy cheaper food. People with degrees who make less money will still have to make poor food choices and thus risk negative impacts on their health,. People educated to degree level aren't necessarily less criminal, but the type of crimes they commit will change - ie more likely to embezzle then commit GBH.

 

 

Once a degree was a guarantee of a well paying white collar job for life, now it's a necessity for much more basic jobs. As more people get them, the less they're worth.

A university degree is what a high school diploma was in the fifties. It gives you the ability to apply for a job. It separates your resume from going into discard pile.

 

Once your foots in the door, it's up to your skills and abilities how far you go.

 

And if you're b#tching about life being unfair, remind me again when it was fair.

OP, you are confusing schooling with education.

 

I think many people use the pursuit of PhDs to avoid reality. And they come out with theoretical, barely marketable skills. For example....what does a PhD in Engineering get you that a Masters does not? The ability to teach it at a university?

I come from a family where you work for your money and I started to work when I was still 17, almost 18. I was allowed to study as much as I wanted, in my own time during evenings and weekends and paying with my own money and if I was lucky (mostly not) my employer would contribute to my studies. I have a bachelor degree, which I just learned is worth nothing and I speak 5 languages, 1 of which is the local dialect (I moved across Europe in my 20s and learned the local dialect here). And while the latter may seem irrelevant, it helps me a lot when I deal professionally with the local banks and authorities, because I speak their language, I am one of them and get things done. Last year I had the opportunity to set up my own business and I run it since then as a 1 woman show.

 

I work in an international environment and have hired a lot of people over the last 15 years. I always try to find the BEST people and those people do not necessarily need to have the best degrees.

 

I have seen smart people with excellent degrees, who were doing excellent jobs. But also people with 2 university degrees who did not make it and who changed jobs every 1 to 2 years, because they were lazy or had no communication skills and were not team players.

 

My best recruit ever never saw a university from the inside, but she was hard working, very well organized, smart, speaking several languages and most and for all, she was a do-er, she would get things done. She made the impossible possible. She was loyal and I would trust her 200%. I was running the company at that time and when I left, she became 1 of the managers and she deserved it.

 

So when I hire people, the degrees matter to me only up to a certain extend but that does not mean that I would be intimidated by candidates with high degrees, because in the end it is just a piece of paper. It's what you do with it that makes the difference.

 

IT means NOTHING. Bachelors degree is equivalent of a high school diploma. They have simply convinced people like you that paying 100K for high school diploma is worth it (mind you it still is to some extent).

If that was the case , everyone would be a scientist . A degree in STEM is difficult . It has nothing to do with experience but let's be honest, not everyone can be a scientist. Nowadays everyone gets a degree from a fifth tier university/college in a whatever field and brags about it . These degrees don't count.

OP, you are confusing schooling with education.

 

I think many people use the pursuit of PhDs to avoid reality. And they come out with theoretical, barely marketable skills. For example....what does a PhD in Engineering get you that a Masters does not? The ability to teach it at a university?

PhD is for research . Research is way more difficult than just studying.

OK. Research....as in theoretical applications. All good...which I would guess means you get grants from industry and foundations to further advances in the field. The field of research.

 

Why would someone need a PhD to get a job that was NOT research? Because obviously, research facilities require them.

OK. Research....as in theoretical applications. All good...which I would guess means you get grants from industry and foundations to further advances in the field. The field of research.

 

Why would someone need a PhD to get a job that was NOT research? Because obviously, research facilities require them.

There is no reason to get a PhD if you are not going for research . I think what you have in mind is that many young people pursue an academic career because they are afraid of work. Let's be clear about this(because i am in this position right now) , many with STEM degrees(normal good students ,not the hardcore geniuses who will pursue a PhD anyway) pursue a PhD because they can't find a job in their field . So there are two options work as a uneducated employee in McDonald's or something like that 2) pursue an academic career. Well once you obtain your degree you don't want (obviously) to work as an uneducated employee (don't want to waste all these years of devotion although many have to do it in the end) therefore you pursue a PhD and hope to become a professor or work at the research facilities .

Got it.

 

I have a friend who has a PhD in Molecular Biology. He is a sought after speaker, guest prof at prestigious int'l university and has state of art lab that is partially funded by the cosmetic industry because his research is on forefront of anti-aging.

 

So I get the research orientation. I appreciate your explanation.

Sometimes I get the idea that some people in younger generations think we went to grade 2 and we just kind of drool into a cup and sweep floors.

I don't sweep.

If that was the case , everyone would be a scientist . A degree in STEM is difficult . It has nothing to do with experience but let's be honest, not everyone can be a scientist. Nowadays everyone gets a degree from a fifth tier university/college in a whatever field and brags about it . These degree don't count.

Let's be fair, though. Not all STEM is created equal. I'd agree that fields like higher level maths and physical sciences involve a certain level of intuition. I'd just finished breezing through my year of organic chemistry when I dropped out after receiving a great job offer. I could flip a molecule in my head without thinking about it. Others had to spend 30 minutes looking at a physical model. Needless to say, they didn't make it and there was no amount of book reading that was going to help them. I couldn't tell you how empty my calc class got once infinite series were introduced. Again, not something you can work through by simply branding your brain with info. But there are a good many STEM degrees you can get by graduating with by no other virtue than you having had enough free time memorizing ****.

 

I don't want to take anything away from a degree. I get by without a degree, but again, I'm a lucky man. Can't help it. It'd be offensively irresponsible for me to ever discourage someone from university. What I would discourage is paying money for an education you could get browsing Wikipedia, and we can all guess which degrees that might include.

 

There are very few degrees out there that I automatically assume someone is smart for having gotten.

Why is it that some older folks (40s, 50s+) seem to be 'intimidated' by younger people who have more education than them?The reason I ask these questions is I have seen first hand (i.e. comments from coworkers in charge of hiring decisions) and read a lot about how sometimes young, passionate, highly educated people are not hired because they are too intimidating to the "status quo"....

 

Are these people refusing to hire youngsters SAYING they are intimidated? Curious. Do you think the higher level of education comes with an attitude of superiority or entitlement? Again, curious.

 

Education, experience, intelligence, training... team player, problem solver, responsible, reliable, creative...there are many aspects that make a person a desirable hire.

Let's be fair, though. Not all STEM is created equal. I'd agree that fields like higher level maths and physical sciences involve a certain level of intuition. I'd just finished breezing through my year of organic chemistry when I dropped out after receiving a great job offer. I could flip a molecule in my head without thinking about it. Others had to spend 30 minutes looking at a physical model. Needless to say, they didn't make it and there was no amount of book reading that was going to help them. I couldn't tell you how empty my calc class got once infinite series were introduced. Again, not something you can work through by simply branding your brain with info. But there are a good many STEM degrees you can get by graduating with by no other virtue than you having had enough free time memorizing ****.

 

I don't want to take anything away from a degree. I get by without a degree, but again, I'm a lucky man. Can't help it. It'd be offensively irresponsible for me to ever discourage someone from university. What I would discourage is paying money for an education you could get browsing Wikipedia, and we can all guess which degrees that might include.

 

There are very few degrees out there that I automatically assume someone is smart for having gotten.

 

Sure Mathematics and Physics are more difficult than Biology ,Chemistry etc . But again don't underestimate memorizing . Medicine(dentistry , pharmacy etc) and law are all about good memory ,yet not everyone can do it. The difficult part is to sit down and study 12-13 hours a day.

 

You can't count a person's intelligence based on a degree but having a serious degree means you are able to study hard which means that you have(or cultivated through the process) other competencies like discipline etc.