Planning the Wedding Before He Proposes?????

I have come a long way with ENA, through heartbreak, single for 5 years, an ex returning ex, dating, relationship and now impending marriage and the dilemma.

My boyfriend and I met a little of 1.5 years ago and had instant chemistry. We both knew we were looking for serious relationships and wanted to be married. He told me he loved me after 6 weeks, I thought he was infatuated and moving a bit too fast, but I loved the attention and really liked him. After about 5 or 6 months he started calling me his fiance, but had not proposed yet and I really hated people looking at my bare finger when he said that so I asked him to stop. Also, hadn't fallen in or told him I love him yet, but really liked him and started spending a lot of time together to get to know each other. Now I realize it was a big mistake asking him to stop calling me his fiance because I now realize that two people are indeed engaged or betrothed once they both agree to be committed and married to each other. I wish I could take it back because I fell in love with him after 9 months and after telling him I expected the proposal to come within a few months, since I figured I was the hold up and reason he hadn't proposed yet.

One year came and we talked, I asked where did he see us in 2 months and he said engaged. He wanted us to speak with the pastor for months about the relationship since we were talking marriage and agreed it was what I wanted also. So we went to pre-engagement counseling and went through a bunch of questions that caused a stir, working out your future and life with another person is a big and emotionally draining task, but we made it through. However, two months came and went and no proposal, I got very upset and each holiday that came and I could tell he was not proposing was ruined by my disappointment and arguing over it. I was unhappy and starting to resent him for holding up starting our future together especially since I asked and he said he still love me and wants to spend the rest of our life together. In addition, he always talks about everything as ours and in a way that makes it clear we are going to be married. However, it has been 1.5 years now and no proposal yet.

The waiting is driving me nuts and at first my idea was just to back off and distance myself, I have fear from a previous relationship in which the guy strung me along knowingly. So a small part of me thinks that could be the case here so I wanted to prepare for the worse and be distanced by the time the ball dropped so to speak. However, my boyfriend besides not asking yet has not given me a reason to think he is stringing me a long. He even had me meet his child, he say because I am going to be in their life. So I realized that distancing was going in the opposite direction of what I wanted and I didn't want to ruin my relationship and future over a matter of timing for a proposal to a man that has shown his commitment and had done things to prepare for our future in the way. So I took to the internet for others that may be in my shoes. I found that it is the norm to feel like you are going crazy while waiting, but I found one women that did something that seem to be the perfect solution for me.

She'd lived with her boyfriend for 13 years and had 2 kids with him and although they talked about marriage he had not proposed. So she just started planning the wedding, bought their daughter's dresses and once she started looking for the venues included her boyfriend. She said she thought if she started planning the wedding he couldn't say no, lol. It was GENIOUS!!! She was right, they'd already agreed and the boyfriend started helping with planning the wedding and they were engaged before the wedding. It was what he needed, lol. The same with me and my boyfriend who had even called me his fiance. I don't know what his reason is for not proposing, but I know I just turned 36 and want to have kids in the next year since I am past the prime age for it, he is 46. Whatever his reason is I will let him deal with it and he will have more time for planning and preparing for the proposal, but I am planning to go ahead and start planning our wedding. I am nervous though about how to let him know. I ordered a wedding planning book for me and a Clueless Groom Guide to Engagement and Marriage since he said he was going online to find out about proposing. Which made me realize he's never done this before and is clueless, lol, it just may be that simple. How does he go about getting help when the person he would normally go to, me, is the one he can't go to? My plan is to let him know that the engagement is still all in his control and timing since he may want to surprise me in how and when, but the wedding is my timing, but I want and need his help. Is this even the right thing to do, would it ruin things or be helping since it will keep me sane and stop my ranting, which seems to put a cloud over making a good time for the proposal, this seems like a catch22, double edge sword, darn if I do darn if I don't situation...but the wedding books are on the way. How do I go about this, should I do it?

When people have kids together and together 13+ years is different than meeting 1.5 years ago.

No. Do not start planning a wedding. 1.5 is an awful short time to get engaged in, no matter the age. I take that back. Unless you are 95. Or unless you have a very long history of friendship before dating (and not "one of the gang" but being very close.) I think that you being upset about him not proposing and getting angry with him is giving him incentive NOT to do it. And you have to detach yourself from the idea of it HAVING to be a holiday to propose.

Also, consider that things that happened in pre-engagement counseling were deeper than you both imagined. He liked the idea of marriage when it was light and there were butterflies but getting into the heavy stuff - maybe you need to work through other things or he realized the honeymoon is over and now reality hits.

You can choose to get angry or you can continue to work things out in the relationship with him that you have to address in your lives and stop thinking about an engagement. It will happen when you are both ready. Right now, you are more concerned with the ring than the marriage.

If the wedding is "your timing" - you are in err. It is BOTH of your timing. YOu are not a solo bride getting married. Its about TWO people/.

I think it would be a mistake in your case to start planning a wedding. Not because I get the impression you aren't a match, or anything like that, but I think it would be a mistake to put that kind of pressure on a relationship of 1.5 years.

We went went ring shopping 1 year go this month (he asked me to go and I said yes). At this point I feel like if I don't start planning the wedding I will ruin the relationship. I was such an emotional wreck feeling like at first he didn't feel the same way, then when assured me he did feeling like starting our life together was on hold for no apparent reason that my recourse was to distance myself and I made up excuses to stay away. The reason was I didn't want to resent him and realizing I had no control over it, I felt like I had to pretend to be happy with the status of our relationship when I was not. Not to mention my girlfriend's boyfriend proposed to her after 7 months, I was there the night they met. I was extremely happy for her after all she'd been through in a previous relationship that I encouraged her to leave, she did and met her future husband. Talk about resentment, I'd been telling my boyfriend how at my age now my friends are meeting their men and are engaged and married within a year. I know at least 3 couples and the 4th happened right before my eyes. My mother actually said last year your friend was single now she's engaged and you are not. I went from people thinking he was moving to fast to having to defend him and our relationship because as much as we've done and do together people are now asking what is taking him so long (he told me a couple of friends asked him too) and he can't give any plausible reason now or for the past few months. As a matter of fact he keeps saying we are, but the time comes and passes.

Thankfully we had a big event planned together so we had to come back together. I felt if once we are married and start our life together it won't matter that I started planning before we are engaged, he will just have to propose before we are married, which he said he plans to. It still doesn't take away my nervousness and anxiety over doing it and not knowing his reaction, which is why I question doing it, but deep down inside for me it's either do it or ruin the relationship because of the many thing I don't know I know I can't wait anymore. Other things on my life are on hold, like I was planning freezing my eggs since I just turned 36 and was not married.If I do that than the money for the wedding will go towards that when instead we could be married and working on getting pregnant. I also have a business lined up and planned for our combined income to free up money, he knows and is supportive and we'v planned it but we are spending double on rent and mortgage for two home monthly expense , money going out the door that we could be saving for our plans. This is where the resentment is coming in he know all this. I don't want to discount love, I LOVE this man and is the only man in 5 years I even went here with. He is the reason I want a future and marriage because of him and how we are together and I feel when with him.

So for me it feels like if I start he can't say no and I save our relationship and future. It definitely takes some abstract thinking, which I admit if I were not in the situation I would be hard pressed to understand.

Great. Sounds like posting about your situation really helped to cement your reasoning for you. Good luck!

No. Do not start planning a wedding. 1.5 is an awful short time to get engaged in, no matter the age. I think that you being upset about him not proposing and getting angry with him is giving him incentive NOT to do it. And you have to detach yourself from the idea of it HAVING to be a holiday to propose.

 

You can choose to get angry or you can continue to work things out in the relationship with him that you have to address in your lives and stop thinking about an engagement. It will happen when you are both ready. Right now, you are more concerned with the ring than the marriage.

 

If the wedding is "your timing" - you are in err. It is BOTH of your timing. YOu are not a solo bride getting married. Its about TWO people/.

I second this post. I think if ever something can scare a guy away and make him run in the opposite direction, it would be a girl planning a wedding when he hasn't even proposed. BIG BIG mistake. Don't do it.

I was pretty decided, but if there were some strong objective reasons I welcomed them. ENA has helped me before when I was thinking one way, but got input that changed my mind. In this case during writing I realized my friends are happily married within a year. It's like after a certain age living and life lessons make people aware of what they want in another person and depending on how much time they spend together a year is like 3. My boyfriend and I have traveled together, events, went through large disagreements, discussed our future. Unlike younger people or inexperienced people that don't have those life lessons and wisdom they take longer, 3, 4, 5, 7 years to get engaged and married. So if I don't hear or think he will leave you, then I will be saving my relationship and if he does say he doesn't want to plan the wedding then he wasn't planning to get engaged anyway in the timing he said or at all, which I seriously doubt, but would save me time and allow me to move on.

@abitbroken you are right it is both of our wedding. I mean that he is still in control of the engagement and it being a surprise and if he needs to save for the ring etc because it should all be shortly based on our discussions (but we've had the discussion twice and twice the time passed), but we need to be set and ready to go when it happens and I just don't think he has thought that far, based on our relationship, I am the one that would tell him you know you have to think about the wedding timing an money you are wasting and then a light bulb would go off in his head. So I am taking over that timing for our sake whether he realized it or not, because otherwise I will drive him crazy. I rather drive him crazy over letting him know I can't wait to plan our wedding and start our future than arguing and pushing and pressuring which will further delay. I definitely plan to include in him planning the wedding that is my dilemma how do I tell present this him?

I second this post. I think if ever something can scare a guy away and make him run in the opposite direction, it would be a girl planning a wedding when he hasn't even proposed. BIG BIG mistake. Don't do it.

@ Capricorn3 Thanks. Allow me to give you some particulars on my relationship and let me know what you think. I appreciate your feedback. What if the woman, I, has a guy who said he loved the woman after 6 weeks, took her ring shopping after a few months and called the woman his fiance before he proposed ( I feel bad now that I asked him to stop because of feeling bad when people look at my bare finger) and has gone through pre-engagement counseling and assessment and still says his feeling are the same, in love?

I just showed my husband this thread to get a male point of view. His reaction was: " Wow, that's a bit rich and rather forward. She doesn't want to argue, push him or pressure him, but instead she says she wants to "drive him crazy letting him know she can't wait to start planning the wedding. I don't see what's the difference - it's still pushing and putting on the pressure, plus driving him crazy. Does she really expect him to go with it? If you did that to me I would have walked out the door and you're never see me again".

Thought I'd share a male point of view.

I don't understand what planning needs to be done -I planned my wedding in less than 6 weeks. If you want to do any planning in advance, make sure your wedding officiant is available, make sure you have a friend who can be your witness if you need one and have your dress/shoes ready (he probably owns a suit or at least a jacket and tie, right -if not you can rent something probably the day before).

I don't buy for a minute that he's not thinking about the marriage -if he is thinking about proposing then of course he's thinking about marriage and if he was just thinking about the party to celebrate the marriage that would be of great concern. If he's not thinking ahead then all he wants is to be able to parade you around as his "fiance" which has no real meaning unless you have a wedding date.

I think your approach will make him feel manipulated and resentful. It's also condescending.

I just showed my husband this thread to get a male point of view. His reaction was: " Wow, that's a bit rich and rather forward. She doesn't want to argue, push him or pressure him, but instead she says she wants to "drive him crazy letting him know she can't wait to start planning the wedding. I don't see what's the difference - it's still pushing and putting on the pressure, plus driving him crazy. Does she really expect him to go with it? If you did that to me I would have walked out the door and you're never see me again".

 

Thought I'd share a male point of view.

Wow, tell your husband I said thanks. At least I can mentally prep for the possibility. My boyfriend would also probably leave from all the times I get upset and angry that he hasn't proposed. At least this way I have a chance of saving our relationship. I don't plan an ultimatum type of confrontation, but I do plan to start planning and present it to him in hopes that he will participate. At minimum this thread will help someone else in my shoes now or in the future, when I was looking for myself I didn't see one like it. I will come back and update. Thanks again all.

How about start planning your marriage - find a good premarital counselor, find good books on how to have a successful marriage, read up on how to handle finances in a marriage and then discuss with him all the planning you've been doing because you're excited about a future together. Telling him you've been planning a party tells him nothing other than you're excited about being princess for a day at your wedding.

I clicked "no" before reading your post. If I had read it first I would have looked for a “yes and no” bullet.

- It’s not normal or healthy to hope for hope.

“I hope he proposes to me soon.” Normal and healthy.

“I hope he hopes to propose to me soon.” Not normal or healthy.

The “no” bullet:

You said, “After about 5 or 6 months he started calling me his fiance,”

- If he was younger and never married I could understand his excitement… but older, divorced with kids; it’s sort of weird to me. (Your reaction to this was normal and should not be brushed off.)

You said, “I don't know what his reason is for not proposing,…”

- Your fear may be keeping you from seeing it.

You said, “but I know I just turned 36 and want to have kids in the next year since I am past the prime age for it, he is 46.”

- Not a reason to marry.

The “yes” bullet:

You said, “Whatever his reason is I will let him deal with it and he will have more time for planning and preparing for the proposal, but I am planning to go ahead and start planning our wedding.”

- This would be a trap. (and that woman you mentioned may pay dearly for it!)

Instead, invite him in... tell him what you have told us. Ie(I would like to get married and have a family.) This is scary but it may save you years of your life.

You said, “I am nervous though about how to let him know.”

- Don't be... you have good reason.

I really don't know what to make of your post. It seems so far beyond the realms of reality/normality that I don't know where to begin.

To be perfectly honest, I think it was a mistake on is part to be calling you his fiance before you actually were his fiance. It was rather childish to say the least. People get engaged to be married and unless you had discussed getting engaged and married, you WEREN'T engaged. Also an engagement is signified by the giving of a ring or other token. Of course people can get married without being engaged if they so wish but other than him calling you his fiance, there was nothing to indicate you were engaged to be married.

Your mistake is thinking that it is enough to tell someone you love them and then expect a proposal of marriage. It seems you went from realising you loved him one day (thus telling him) to expecting a proposal the next! I think you need to relax a bit. It takes time for two people to realise that what they have is real and ever-lasting. Two people can be happy and in love, you know, yet not be ready for marriage and not being ready for marriage doesn't mean you are being strung along.

That said, I think the whole "pre-engagement counselling but we made it through" thing is rather telling. I think such a big fuss has been made over this that you have put way too much pressure on yourselves. You need to relax and just learn to enjoy what you have at this moment in time and see what comes naturally.

Being in a relationship is one thing. Being engaged or married is quite another. Marriage is also something that happens when you are both sure and ready and that can take time. This needy expectation of yours is quite frightening. If he has been married or in a LTR before and has children then it is quite understandable why he might not be in so much of a rush. However if your biological clock is ticking away then you may have to consider whether you are at different stages of your life (ie. you want kids ASAP, he isn't bothered if or when he has any more) and whether you are truly compatible.

If you start to plan a wedding I think you would be making a big mistake. Not only are you not engaged to be married yet but you would be acting kind of desperate and crazy!!

She said she thought if she started planning the wedding he couldn't say no, lol. It was GENIOUS!!!

That is just plain selfish as she is basically forcing him into something he hadn't given his consent too. It is not genious. It is plain immature and crazy and just because it worked out in the sense that he went ahead and got married it doesn't make it right .... or that it will work for you.

Here's a summary of what I think happened:

- He moved really fast. Yes, it was fast - it doesn't matter what your friends are doing. You felt that in your gut and wanted to take some time to really get to know him (good for you!), and you backed off a little bit. You weren't ready.

- Suddenly your friends are getting married and you are receiving social pressure to get married. You are also starting to think about your biological clock which is adding MORE pressure. Now you know him a little more and are ready... but in the meantime, he has also gotten to know you, has had time to realize the implications of getting married, you've been through pre-marital councilling and it's suddenly "real" to him. He's not ready any more.

I don't think pushing him is a good idea - just as his pushing you in the beginning was not a good idea.

I agree that the case of a couple living together for 13+ years with children together is a different story. That guy was already married for all intents and purposes. They were already living together and had been for over a decade. They already had a family. There were already financial and legal implications to breaking up (child support, possibly alimony depending where they live, possibly division of house & assets). They were acting like married people, they just hadn't walked down the aisle. It was a technicality.

Your situation is different. You are not acting like a married couple. You don't live together. You don't have children together. You say you have "met" his daughter (implying that you don't already have a close parental-type relationship with her yet). You don't have shared assets. Deciding to leave because you are pressuring him is not a major, life altering decision with legal implications.

If you want a marriage and not just a wedding, it has to happen when you are BOTH ready. He is not ready. When he is ready, he will propose. He knows at this point you will say "yes"...

I think you are letting all of the external pressures give you a false sense of urgency. If you need to freeze your eggs, freeze your eggs. If it's a marriage you are after, you can have that with a few hundred dollars - when you are both ready (and it's more likely to last).

I think that planning the wedding at this point, when he's clearly not ready anymore, is a bad idea.

@Batya33 We've been doing all that for a year now since we went ring shopping and the finale in the pre engagment counseling assessment with the pastor. We knew almost everthing he asked before going in. The is only itrm we have discussed over and over and havr have not officailly agreed on. But finances , living arrangements , consideration for moving to another state, church service, life insurance, how long we will keep the current cars, if we get a dog or pets they will not he allowed on the beds, how many kids, agreement to tithe, our favorites colors and food, cooking and domestic arrangements and more. We don't watch TV much at all so if we are in the house together we are talking amd that has gone on for year. We had some disagreements about some things but worked through them and afterwards he said we'd be engaged within two months. He has always been just as eager and involved as I but 2 months came and went. Its been going on months.

As for books and stuff I have been part of a singles ministry for 4 years and taken several marriage preparedness courses and seminars. My boyfriend as part of caraeer was professionally trained and counselled couples , admits it is different when it self. But his being adamant about communication for success should make him know telling your girlfriend you plan to engage in 2 months and not saying a word as it came and went by months is not good communication.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk

At this point I feel like if I don't start planning the wedding I will ruin the relationship.

I'm not sure how NOT planning a wedding will ruin the relationship. Surely if he wanted to get married he would ask? I think it is more likely to ruin your relationship if you did, as you would be arranging something BIG by yourself (and something that is life changing) that is meant to involve both of you.

he will just have to propose before we are married, which he said he plans to.

Then if that is the case he should be allowed to do it when he is ready. You would be forcing him into asking you because you've already planned it!

So for me it feels like if I start he can't say no and I save our relationship and future. It definitely takes some abstract thinking, which I admit if I were not in the situation I would be hard pressed to understand.

If he can't say no because you have planned it, then you are forcing him into something he isn't ready for. A marriage shouldn't be based on the fact that someone couldn't say "no". It should be based on the fact that someone said "yes"!!!

I don't see this as abstact thinking, I see it as crazy thinking!

What if the woman, I, has a guy who said he loved the woman after 6 weeks, took her ring shopping after a few months and called the woman his fiance before he proposed ( I feel bad now that I asked him to stop because of feeling bad when people look at my bare finger) and has gone through pre-engagement counseling and assessment and still says his feeling are the same, in love?

I wouldn't take it seriously at all. I would think he is in the honeymoon period and acting immaturely, especially when calling me his fiance before we were even engaged or I had agreed to be engaged!

As for pre-engagement counselling. I think I would find it rather odd that someone needed counselling before asking me to get engaged. It at least indicates they aren't really sure about the commitment.

You say you went ring shopping but I gather you didn't buy anything?

@ a little blue In our religion and in particular my church couples are encouraged and do get singles, pre enagagment, pre marital counseling but the pastor oficially call it assessments, now I understand why they call it assessment.

I see your points, but I am also being made to do something I don't want. If he admitted to not being sure or something I would not even consider this. But he hasn't he talks about us as if we are married our etc and said I love you, my feelings for you have not changed and we will be engaged in two months. The two months were bliss, even a month after and realized he had said zilch...except he'd been looking at proposals online and that was after I bought it up. He forced me to by giving a specific time frame and then letting it go. I figures for the sake of middle ground I'd do this.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk

"I am also being made to do something I don't want."

You are not being made to do anything. You are making a choice among many other choices and options. I think the choice you are thinking of making shows that you are not ready for marriage in general and that you don't really care about him and his needs and desires. If you think that he has not followed through on his promise have a discussion with him - in an adult, mature way - about that situation and see what he says. Then decide for yourself (internally) if you knew he was never going to marry you how long would you stay? And then stay that length of time and if there is no follow up, move on.

@batya33 Yes, that is exactly what I did and five months after the two months timeframe was given. I feel like I am being made to be in an unhappy limbo state now, I was happy and anticipating during the first two months with thinking of or future together. After two months passed I gave it til 2 weeks ago and I started distancing instead of bringing it up again. Like it was said if wanted to he would have but also why is he professing love and engagement and marriage if he doesn't want to?

My friend's fiance who proposed to her in 7 months said my boyfriend should have never gave a specific time he didn't plan to keep as a guy he should know how bad that will affect a woman. I agree and now I am left to deal with it because when I bought it up to my boyfriend a couple of months ago he said he said I don't know what he has been doing he has been looking online at proposals, yet another two months passed.

So as you said I decided he wants to get married but is taking his own time and maybe even be enjoying the control of it all, not maliciously but not taking in consideration how this is affecting me and our relationship. How does one deal with someone who professes their love and say that they are ready to propose and get married, but doesn't do it. I figured I found the perfect solution start planning the wedding and let him continue with his plans for the proposal.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk

@Reddress. It is pressure more internal now than external people went from thinking he was moving to fast to what is taking him so long. I now am protecting his character explaining to my loved ones what you all are explaining to me, but I can't explain the two months we will be engaged then nothing. When I was single for 5 years inquiries did not phase me, but being in love and wanting to move forward with someone who feels the same as ue expresses with word, by but has not done so by actions is bascially a toture technique that no one should be made to endure. To prevent resentment that I started feeling and preserve an otherwis good relationship I found what the lady with the guy for 13 years did. I know he circumstance was different but if she left him after all that time for not proposing and getting married people would support he. Yet instead of leaving she did what she wanted in her hearts of hearts and it got the man jumpstarted.

I have some thinking to do and will definitely update.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk

This post was posted in duplicate but I can't figure out how to delete using my phone so I erased the duplicate.

 

So for me it feels like if I start he can't say no and I save our relationship and future.

By this logic, you are trapping him. Do you really want to start your marriage that way? If you did this and if he were smart, he'd realize what you were forcing him into and he'd walk.

@Lester I feel that way yes and no, stuck in the middle of the twilight zone.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk

" Yes, that is exactly what I did and five months after the two months timeframe was given. I feel like I am being made to be in an unhappy limbo state now, I was happy and anticipating during the first two months with thinking of or future together. After two months passed I gave it til 2 weeks ago and I started distancing instead of bringing it up again. Like it was said if wanted to he would have but also why is he professing love and engagement and marriage if he doesn't want to?"

No one is making you do anything. You have the two choices to stay with the status quo or walk away. Distancing yourself but yet staying in the relationship is not going to do anyone any good. He is saying what he is saying because that is how he feels at the moment. Watch the feet -what he does- not the lips -what he says. You need to stop with the "I am being made to" or "I'm getting pressure from friends/family" because the first is not true and the second is irrelevant.