Girlfriend can't seem to hold down a job

I really am not sure what to do if this were to continue for the next year or two. She and I met as coworkers (she was a seasonal employee), but in the last year and a half she has had three jobs with none lasting more than a few months. She is a couple grand in debt, which I have been helping her get out of under the condition that she looks for a job and (when she finds one) keep looking for a better one. She and I both know I don't have to and I have refused to help her a couple times when she decided to start just blowing her money on stupid things (anyone familiar with microtransactions on MMO's?). She and I have a lot in common and we both treat each other very well. We have once talked about marriage, which I did tell her I won't get married until her debt is gone but now I'm thinking that another stipulation is that she HAS to hold down a job before I even consider proposing. She currently lives with me because I wanted her away from her abusive father (the rest of her family refuses to take her in), along with my mother (who lives with me because she can't make it on her own financially). She is, once again unemployed and does have a job interview soon but this is a concern I have now and she seems just as concerned as I am. She is responsible but, in this economy, it is important to me that we are able to take care of each other financially rather than it being on me 1/3rd of the year.

She is 26, I am 25. She is self-aware of her problems and is trying to fix them, but I'm self-aware enough to know that I will eventually become conflicted as to whether or not to dump her if her being unable to hold down a job is a constant issue. I know the main things that will keep me from doing it, aside from how we are together, is that the only people who will take her in is an overbearing and abusive father. The rest of her family refuses to take her in because, after meeting them all, they're extremely self-centered and think how she says he treats her is overblown despite them saying to me that he treated them precisely the same way. How he treated them is wrong, how he treats her is fine is their mentality. She is very much prone to anxiety attacks and constantly fears being deserted, which makes thinking about this even harder. I'm certainly not the type of person to stay in a relationship if I am unhappy or if I have to be the sole caretaker when it will require living paycheck to paycheck, but I also worry about losing a great woman.

Any thoughts or advice for when I come down that road?

What does she have to say about why she can't hold a job?

From a practical standpoint, do you want to be financially responsible for both your mom and your girlfriend long term? That's where you're headed if you don't take a closer look. What it might be or could be or would be under other circumstances isn't relevant.... you have to deal with the reality, and this is the reality.

Make sure your need to help others doesn't cost you your sanity, financial well-being or emotional health!

She says she doesn't know why she can't and that she tries everything she can. I know her last job praised her for being one of their best workers, but then they turned around claiming her work was consistently unsatisfactory and fired her after one mistake. The job before that fired her because she didn't want to walk to work or walk back home (she couldn't afford a cab, lived a couple miles from work, and doesn't have a driver's license or car) during a major cold-snap that kicked our temperature to the single-digits for a week. Because nobody could give her a ride, she called off the entire week and got fired for it. The time before that was the job we both worked at, which I can't blame her for since it was seasonal and they severely over-hired by three times what they needed for the season (seasonal workers were lucky if they got more than 10 hours per week).

I don't mind being financially responsible for my mother because I have the same stipulation for her: hold down a job, pay her bills, excess money towards debt, and look for a better job and I will help with her debt. While I say "to hell" with any girl that doesn't like me helping my mother (I refuse to move out of her house as it better enables me to give her more money towards her debt and don't plan on moving out until she can survive on her own), I do not want to be financially responsible for the woman I'm dating or married to.

I agree there is a distinct difference between your mother and your girlfriend. What I'm observing is that your mother, as an adult, is living like a child in terms of having a budget, stipulations, can't support herself) and you've almost created (or have created) the same dynamic with your girlfriend. I would suspect you'd like to be with an equal partner and not one you have to treat with kid gloves or make rules/stipulations for.

Getting laid off is one thing....getting fired is another. Looking at it from the employer's point of view, they hired her to do a job which includes getting there and home. Whether that's take the bus or whatever, she shouldn't have accepted a job that she would have to rely on other people to get to and home from. In general, it seems she makes her well-being other people's responsibility and writes off her own responsibility ("nobody would drive me" puts the onus on other people when its her job). Being a grown adult without a driver's license or car is putting yourself in a position of having to rely on others. And here she is with a roof over her head and someone taking care of bills, food, etc. while she meanders from one job to another. Its not typical to be fired for "just one mistake" nor is typical to be fired from job after job.

I know its hard to see things as an 'outsider' when you're an 'insider' because you clearly care for her and feel on some level like its your job to take care of her (otherwise you wouldn't have her live with you and take her on as a financial burden).

Based on the facts-- that she can't hold a job, doesn't take responsibility for her actions "I just made one mistake", "No one would drive me", "I have no driver's license", and that she's not an equal on a financial plain or an emotional plain, I would imagine your long-term attraction will wane when you realize its more of a parent-child dynamic than a healthy relationship dynamic. Once that bridge is crossed, I'd imagine you'll lose your sexual pull to her and the rest will fade as well.

Naturally you know your own relationship better than anyone else...I would imagine at some point your back will break with her, so to speak.

she tries everything she can. .

She can get a driver's license and a car and go to work when she has a job.

She doesn't do everything she can.

What is her plan? To be a grown adult who needs people to drive her to work? She is creating an awfully poor resume by getting fired from one job and another. Do you plan to have a family one day? How would she be able to take care of children with no ability to get anywhere without relying on other people? Does she have any plans and ambitions for herself career wise/family wise or otherwise? How does she plan to reach those goals? I would say at 26 she has found that whatever she is doing is working for her (relying on others and not taking responsibility for the quality of her lifestyle). Most women who would round up to 30 on the age chart have some idea of what they want and how to get there. She seems more like a wanderer who has met enough people along the way to help keep her afloat and therefore won't do it herself (really, she doesn't have to so why would she unless that's her personal ambition to be self-sufficient which it clearly isn't).

That doesn't make her a bad person. My sister is 150% dependent on her husband and they're happy as clams. You would have decide if that's a good fit for you.

She doesn't know how to drive, she comes to me on my days off asking me to teach her how to drive. She keeps failing her license test but the testers refuse to actually test your ability; if you do one thing that is an automatic fail, they will stop the test rather than allow you to do the full test. Then, when you ask what needs to be improved then they refuse to tell you so you're left guessing. So you never know what you need to improve with these people; they're lazy. She literally did just make one mistake; she was just a little late on one assignment and they claimed unsatisfactory performance. I've seen their emails towards her and she showed me her submission times, it literally was just one mistake. She has acknowledged on her own that "no one would drive me" isn't a valid excuse. I will say, I definitely understand the temperature being at 5 degrees as the high with wind chills below -10 is more than a valid excuse to not want to walk. There are no buses in the town she lived in at the time; she would have to travel ten miles to get to the nearest bus. Cab was the only way and she couldn't afford it because it was paycheck to paycheck with her debt.

I recognize invalid excuses, but these are more explanations than excuses. If it were in the summer, I would have told her that she should have sucked it up and walked. She does have a job interview and is saying she will be walking there and won't call off; I know I can trust her since she always backs her words with her actions. My worry is what if she loses this job, too since the job economy here is horrible (even if you look in a 30-mile radius).

It sounds like you think all of the reasons for license/job are valid and on the up and up and also that you trust her....so maybe you found your answer!

I find her story hard to believe, that they would tell her she is great and then gets fired after one mistake? I feel like there is WAY more to the story.

Ok, if work is close enough to walk she can put on some extra layers and suck it up. Missing work for a week baring something extreme is unacceptable. At my last job I had to walk 15 minuets to the train and the once at my stop walk another 15 minuets to my job. The weather here has been horrible this year, negative temps more often then not.

Yes, while I do trust her I also do know that I will eventually want to end it if her unemployment or her tendency to lose jobs tends to be a chronic thing. I self-aware to the point that I know long before things get to a certain point what my reaction would be. Even though I'm totally fine supporting her right now, I will have a problem if it is a constant thing and she was worrying about the possibility of me dumping her after she lost her second job almost a year ago. She stopped after I assured her I wouldn't but then she lost this previous job and started worrying again and I assured her again that I wouldn't. It's just I know myself well enough to know it will eventually be a problem. I'm just not sure how to handle it when that time comes because I don't want to send her back to her father and I know how her mind works and her overall psyche to say she will be prone to depression after the break up and that will be augmented by her anxiety disorder and her father's abusive behavior. All her friends tell me I'm the first and only guy who has actually treated her right.

I know I would be able to afford supporting her, but I want an equal (like you said earlier). I will want to break up but I love her enough that I will be too worried about her mentally, emotionally, and financially because the environment she would wind up being placed back in will do nothing but ensure things get worse. As you can probably tell, I like having answers to problems long before I encounter them; this actually helps me more than people realize.

I find her story hard to believe, that they would tell her she is great and then gets fired after one mistake? I feel like there is WAY more to the story.

 

Ok, if work is close enough to walk she can put on some extra layers and suck it up. Missing work for a week baring something extreme is unacceptable. At my last job I had to walk 15 minuets to the train and the once at my stop walk another 15 minuets to my job. The weather here has been horrible this year, negative temps more often then not.

Like I said, I saw the correspondence e-mails; they praised her and then dropped her after one instance of tardiness. Also, two miles in near-zero temperature is hardly a 15-mile walk (especially when you can't afford to buy those warm clothes to bundle up in); it is close to an hour due to the amount of snow, how close the roads cut to the mountain on the way to that job, and the fact it has enough steep hills to make it hell for anyone out of shape. Also, I stated the only mode of transport in her town was a cab and she could not afford it. I was teaching her to manage her finances, which is how I knew she could not afford it, and I personally looked for alternative modes of transport for when I couldn't take her and found none that she could afford.

It sounds like she's had some bad luck and is not totally in the wrong for losing those jobs. However, I don't think taking jobs far away from the house are an option for her unless they are seasonal, like summer-only. I think she needs to keep looking for a job CLOSE to the house, or if she can't find one, look into starting some sort of home-based business, doing telephone sales from home, or something like that so she is at least making some money even if you bring in more.

Being a grown adult without a driver's license or car is putting yourself in a position of having to rely on others.

For Christ's sake, some people can't afford it.

However, it has been mentioned she's blown her money on stupid things so there's definitely irresponsible behavior on her part. Also, yes, when you agree to do the job you agree to get there on your own, you set the alarm 2 hours early when the weather forecast is bad and use public transport. Most of us have had to do that at some point and when I was broke I walked 45 minutes to work and then back again every flipping day, wouldn't get a day off for 3 months in a row and nobody asked whether i liked the weather. You do what it takes to hold a job.

But there's more to her issue I think. Obviously the abusive father has left her with issues and i would suspect her work situation reflects them. Perhaps she's looking to finally be safe and taken care of to the point that she subconsciously sabotages every chance she gets to stand on her own two? Therapy? I wouldn't try to make her feel guilty, just emphasize that she will have to heal if she's to live like a normal person. As for the marriage thing, if you're going to be talking to her about that perhaps don't say " i won't until you can hold a job" but more like something we're going to have to be financially stable if we want to live together so let's both work on that, I'll make sure to keep the job (even if it's obvious you will), you work on clearing your debt and once we're financially stable we're on the safe side and can start investing in our life together". I'm sure she knows it makes no sense getting married if you have to save up to be poor so if she complicates just state : i want us to be able to live together like a couple and this means we need financial security.

I wouldn't bring this up before the interview though, don't wanna stress her into messing it up.

It really does sound like it has to do with her family though....

I agree if the problem persists you'll probably break it off with her at some point so do work on that. I really think she should get help for the emotional baggage from her family, even if she keeps a job. It obviously affects her so if it isn't going to reflect on her work it probably will elsewhere at some point. Perhaps go together?

the testers refuse to actually test your ability; if you do one thing that is an automatic fail, they will stop the test rather than allow you to do the full test. Then, when you ask what needs to be improved then they refuse to tell you so you're left guessing. So you never know what you need to improve with these people; they're lazy. She literally did just make one mistake. There are no buses in the town she lived in at the time; she would have to travel ten miles to get to the nearest bus. Cab was the only way and she couldn't afford it because it was paycheck to paycheck with her debt.

 

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okay, testers, yes...it is like that often- they do want to flunk you because they want you to keep paying for the test, duh. goes for everyone, not just her. She'll have to make no mistakes then, won't she? Life is hard.

as for no public transport, she'll have to remember that next time she's applying for a job.

I agree she's not to blame for every circumstance and situation mentioned here. So both of you will have to keep your hopes up and not let the initial setbacks drive you into a defeatist mentality. That is hard but so is the situation so you'll have to. You actually sound both understanding/fair and practical so you've got that working for you. I do think she'll still have to grow out of her hurt self if this is to work though...

Hey, you're already supporting her so here's an idea...maybe redirect your support to her jobhunt? Next time you pay, pay for the cab to get her to work and if you're actually giving her money suggest paying part of the drivers test fee? You still come of as supportive and encouraging but you're also making it clear her keeping a job is a prerogative. Just hope she doesn't start relying on that too much.

For Christ's sake, some people can't afford it.

Can't afford a driver's license? Its like $60, a cheap, not great car is as low as $1000 and she's 26 years old. My point isn't about her not having a car...its about not doing anything to make herself self-sufficient (like being able to borrow a car or buy a cheap car or be in any way non-reliant of others for transportation living in a location where there is no public transportation at 26 years old).

OP I think you're missing some red flags....she has put herself in a position where either someone else needs to take care of her or she goes back to an abusive father (as per what you say). At 26, she should be doing things in her life (like learning to drive) so that when she does have a job, she can assure she can get there on her own...whether that's b/c she has a cheap loan, she has a beater car, she can borrow one.... If you take on that its "you or an abusive dad" you're going to take on way more than any fair share because you're guilting yourself into being responsible for her well-being when she hasn't done anything to become more responsible for herself.

Since we learn to drive at 16 in the US, she has passed up 10 years of getting that skill under her belt ...particularly necessary if living in a place where there is no reliable public transportation. If she were that worried about not going back to her dad, she'd be doing anything and everything to make sure she would never be in that position. Instead she's making sure you're not going to dump her because you are the one taking care of her. What if you dumped her tomorrow? (This is how she should be thinking)....what would she do? Where would she live? Presumably she's been working since she was around 20 or 22 so how did she get to work for the last 4-6 years? Rides from other people?

Ask yourself this....if you knew that losing your job or losing your boyfriend meant you'd be back in an abusive situation, what would YOU do? Personally I would have some nasty $1000 car or be walking in sub zero temps with several scarfs and a big hat. Meaning, its a personality trait that you are comfortable relying on other people for your own well-being and basic survival. I'm not comfortable with that and couldn't operate like that. I'm not saying that makes me a better person in any way, shape or form....what I'm saying is she either has that "independence" thing or she doesn't and I it seems that she doesn't.

It seems like you really want to kind of 'save' her and since you're doing the same for your mom, that might be something you want to take a look at in terms of your own personality. As I said before, your mom is a different story b/c she's your mom. But the same in terms of what you're willing to do at your own emotional/physical space/financial 'cost'.

Everyone has a spot of bad luck here and there. I think one job after another firing her is a red flag since, as I said, its much more common to lay someone off or cut the position or something that saves the person face on their resume. Also the amount of excuses seems excessive....it appears to be someone else's fault at every turn from the employer to the drivers ed instructor to people not giving her a ride, etc. If she went back to her dad, I'm sure she'd say it was "because my boyfriend dumped me" (your fault) instead of "I can't afford to live on my own". Again, more of a personality trait.

Finally, I think that it will be very confusing when you do break up with her after you've promised not to at various points. I would be careful not to give her too much of a security blanket in that so that she's not shocked if/when it does happen. A lot of us (including me) are with someone and we think "this'll be great when...." or "we'll be so happy when...." or "once....happens, we'll be all set". That's living in a hypothetical. I would say she's proven to be 'employment unstable' and only you can determine how important that is.

Can't afford a driver's license? Its like $60

oh, sorry. it's a LOT more expensive where i live, i had to save up for about 8 months..

Rainy Coast, I like what you said to the effect of "nobody asked me how I was going to get there or how the weather was...you do what you need to do to keep a job" (exactly my point!!!). Its not about the simple fact that she doesn't have a license...here in the US if you live in the suburbs public transportation is rare and I would call irresponsible to at least not have the knowledge of how to drive. Also, here in the US, you're eligible to drive at 16 and to work at 18...so this woman has had almost 10 years to save up for what it took you 8 months to save for. I see lots of excuses here.

A perhaps irrelevant story....last winter we had sooooo much snow one storm and I live in a condominium where they plow the snow and shovel around our walkways, etc. Well there was no way for them to keep up with the snow during this particular storm...there was too much coming down too fast. So I was out there shoveling and making sure that my car could get out in the case of an emergency. I had lots of neighbors stay home for 2 days and say "that's their job" kind of thing and they just stayed stuck. With a young child at home there was no way I was leaving it up to someone else to take care of. If my daughter suddenly needed to go to the hospital (God forbid), there's no way you'd hear me saying "well the plow guys never came so....". Now this girl doesn't have a small child but the comparison I'm making is in attitude....who is responsible for you? She probably believes her boyfriend is and that if he doesn't do x, y or z, then she's being sent to the wolves. There is little personal responsibility I see.

Also, I have not ever heard of someone failing their driver's license test let alone multiple times. I also don't know anyone who was fired from a job more than once. That's just my personal experience as a 38 year old in the Northeast US. I know lots and lots and lots of people and can say those 2 things (failing the drivers Ed test 'because of the instructor' and getting fired) are actually pretty rare. Combine that with the other excuses and her need for the validation that he's not going to leave her, I think she's getting comfortable relying on someone else. I have nothing against her....as I said before, my sister is 150% reliant on her husband and he adores her, does everything for her, takes her where she needs to go, believes all of her excuses and supports her times a million. It totally works for them and I'm happy she's so well taken care of. The OP has to decide if that would work for him and if that fits into his life plan.

And also, questions I've asked myself.....if I know the relationship isn't what I ultimately want....how long do I stay? Afterall the time you spend with the non-contender (so to speak) is taking away from time you could be finding what you really want. I had that dilemma about a year ago. I knew it wasn't really what I wanted ultimately, but couldn't seem to leave either. Ugh.

I'm in your corner, OP!!! Just trying to give you some food for thought!

Like I said, I saw the correspondence e-mails; they praised her and then dropped her after one instance of tardiness. Also, two miles in near-zero temperature is hardly a 15-mile walk (especially when you can't afford to buy those warm clothes to bundle up in); it is close to an hour due to the amount of snow, how close the roads cut to the mountain on the way to that job, and the fact it has enough steep hills to make it hell for anyone out of shape. Also, I stated the only mode of transport in her town was a cab and she could not afford it. I was teaching her to manage her finances, which is how I knew she could not afford it, and I personally looked for alternative modes of transport for when I couldn't take her and found none that she could afford.

Does she have only one set of clothes? She can layer up, suck it up, and go to work like everyone else. My BFF doesn't drive and used to walk to school all the time. She lives in a very snowy, cold area. It was probably a mile, mile and a half each way. She needs to stop making excuses. Being an adult is hard and most of the time you have to do things you don't want to do.

if he doesn't do x, y or z, then she's being sent to the wolves.

that's what bothers me about this story. She does seem to think herself a victim. People can mess you up and land you in a difficult situation before you're old enough to stop them. So abusers mess you up. But are they going to clean up the mess? Hell no! I totally don't want to sound mean as i greatly sympathize with anyone who had ever been at the mercy of an abuser. "been". she isn't any more, time to stop acting helpless and ensure she's not going back there. The victim isn't guilty- but they are RESPONSIBLE. OP if it weren't for you or anyone else whom she could count on, do you really think she would just lie down and die rather than do whatever it takes?

I beg pardon for another personal anecdote but i left my mother (alcohol abuse, narcissist, did everything under the sun to keep me depending on her), moved to the other side of the country, was still in college, couldn't afford a place so i lived in a garage (!!) that had the bicycle storage turned into the tiniest bathroom you've ever seen. My "kitchen" was in the same room as my bed and desk. You should've seen some of the neighbors outwardly smirking at me. I was ashamed to have people over. But i kept it clean, tidy, kept myself together, continued studying, ironed my clothes every evening and remember it made me feel like a fraud in the sense that i was trying to look like a functional person. then it dawned on me- i wasn't trying to look like one, i WAS functional, the circumstances sucked but my will and effort was there.(not saying this to brag. Perhaps if there was someone or something i could rely on i would've been less hands on, i don't know. Nowdays i'm glad i had no one, it was my ticket to freedom and self-sufficiency.) My point being, it gets nasty, sure. Abuse is a seriously big deal and everyone who had escaped it will tell you that precisely due to the gruesomeness of it they didn't hesitate to make what feels like an impossibly inhumane effort to get out and provide for themselves. I wish this girl healing and safety of course but a reality check won't hurt her. I understand OP, she's had a hard time so striking a balance between compassion and sober boundaries is kinda tricky. You're also only human and not her parent, not her therapist...If you do send her off, don't feel guilty. Sometimes mercy comes in the form of a hard wake-up call...

Also, the one employer that didn't have a problem with her- ask for a recommendation. I worked through college and when i got the diploma i asked the employer whether they knew a similar company that was hiring (this one wasn't hiring full time employees at the time) and they recommended a few people as well as provided me a wonderful recommendation for future employers. It did help. Come on, perk up a bit, the both of you, there's still stuff you can do...

"I was teaching her to manage her finances, which is how I knew she could not afford it, and I personally looked for alternative modes of transport for when I couldn't take her and (I) found none that she could afford."

What part did SHE take, at 26 years old, in trying to figure out her finances herself and find transportation herself?

You're enabling her. Something you need to examine if you want an equal partner. Perhaps you'd in fact prefer someone you can take care of and who relies on you/needs you. Nothing wrong with that, but they're opposite things and that's for you to figure out about yourself. Someone who truly wanted an equal partner would be awfully turned off by having to manage a grown adult's finances, tell them how to spend/not spend their money, figure out their transport, etc. It would exhaust, tire and sexually/mentally/emotionally turn them off (if they're attracted to people who have their sh** together and desire those qualities in a partner).

I suspect that you enjoy the arrangement on many levels ...you are her protector from her father, you're teaching her, you're helping her, you're 'saving' her from what could/would be if it weren't for you. Those are some feel-good feelings! You're a hero! That's probably more habitual than you realize as you've been doing that for your mom for some time. Its comfortable. Its very hard to change what works for us and what is comfortable for us which is why you might examine the possibility that you'd in fact prefer someone you can take care of, versus someone that has their whole act together and is a fully and equal participating partner.

"I was teaching her to manage her finances, which is how I knew she could not afford it, and I personally looked for alternative modes of transport for when I couldn't take her and (I) found none that she could afford."

 

Its very hard to change what works for us and what is comfortable for us which is why you might examine the possibility that you'd in fact prefer someone you can take care of, versus someone that has their whole act together and is a fully and equal participating partner.

I agree. The more investigation Savignon does (well done Sav), the more it seems to me that both you and your gf make a lot of excuses for not being a responsible adult and you enable her perpetual screw ups.

I am also wondering if her father is really abusive or if that is yet another exaggeration (such as the "she was fired for one mistake" or "she failed her driving exam for one mistake").

I'd also like to point out (but may be a little late) that your relationship has taken a father/daughter dynamic and that isn't good.

You've got a punishment and reward system going on where you decide whether her achievements are good enough to be rewarded. If she is already lacking motivation to be an adult then this surely seals the deal. She needs to hold down a job for herself, for her - not so she can be rewarded with marriage.

If you're going to lend/give someone money - then do it. But changing her behaviour with a reward system is so parental you are at risk of stopping her from actually standing on her own two feet.

In the meantime you need to decide why you are giving her these rewards. Do you love this girl enough to marry her as she is now? If she never changes does that mean no marriage for her?

I know it is in your best interest but this is not a teenager who refuses to tidy her room. This is a grown woman who - as you claim - has had it a bit rough in the last few jobs she's had. You say she needs to hold down a job but if you honestly back up these "explanations" then why is she being offered a reward for holding the job down if the previous jobs she had were simply unlucky?

The bottom line is, whatever she is or isn't doing for herself is on her. You have to decide if you want to marry a financially unstable woman, who spends money she doesn't have on silly things. You either agree to pay her debts or you don't, if she doesn't hold down a job (and it's on her if she doesn't) then you have every right to take away the money you are giving her, just stop giving her these rewards and punishments - she's not your daughter she is your partner

I'd also like to point out (but may be a little late) that your relationship has taken a father/daughter dynamic and that isn't good.

You've got a punishment and reward system going on where you decide whether her achievements are good enough to be rewarded. If she is already lacking motivation to be an adult then this surely seals the deal. She needs to hold down a job for herself, for her - not so she can be rewarded with marriage.

 

You either agree to pay her debts or you don't, if she doesn't hold down a job (and it's on her if she doesn't) then you have every right to take away the money you are giving her, just stop giving her these rewards and punishments - she's not your daughter she is your partner

I agree. And if at some point you get fed up please don't come back here and blame her for being irresponsible. Both of you contributed to this situation.

Also, I have not ever heard of someone failing their driver's license test let alone multiple times. I also don't know anyone who was fired from a job more than once. That's just my personal experience as a 38 year old in the Northeast US.

I find it hard to believe that you don't know someone who has failed. Myself, my sister, and most of my friends have had to take the test two or three times. My father also took it three times and had to repeat one portion of it a fourth time. We've all had jobs, and some of us have degrees, so it's not like we're less skilled than the rest of the population or something. I live in Canada, but it can't be that different.

I find it hard to believe that you don't know someone who has failed. Myself, my sister, and most of my friends have had to take the test two or three times. My father also took it three times and had to repeat one portion of it a fourth time. We've all had jobs, and some of us have degrees, so it's not like we're less skilled than the rest of the population or something. I live in Canada, but it can't be that different.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I just don't know anyone who has failed. If you ever drive in the US, you'll see plain as day that any fool is issued a license ;-)

But again...that's not even remotely my main point....its just a small part of a number of excuses that I see throughout the thread.