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How do I heal when we have kids?


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Ok so a month ago my husband says our marriage is over. Since then he has moved out and I am in the process of sorting out my finances. We we together for 13 years and married for nearly 10. We have 3 small children together. I feel like I am in a living nightmare. I have read on here that the fastest way to heal is to go NC but I can't do that because we have the children. So how can I heal?

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Low contact. Maintain a civil relationship with minimal contact if you can.

 

Other than that it's just about learning to be happy on your own, picking up hobbies, watching your favourite films, going out...also discovering the good things about being single as well.

 

Stay strong break ups are hard enough and even worse with kids involved. But it will get easier in time

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My ex left 2 months ago with our kids, 5 and 2. I was wondering the same thing as you are.

 

I just don't speak to her at all. When I pick up the kids, I say nothing to her. If she has something to say about the kids, I still say nothing, unless there is a reason for me to. Which hasn't happened yet.

 

I have no other way to speak to them except to call her cell phone. It has gotten to the point where she does not even answer when I call, she hands the phone to my oldest child and he answers.

 

My breakup was and still is extremely hostile. Just take it as it comes. Are you the parent who has retained or will retain custody? If so, I fathom you will have an easier time with all of this.

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Thanks guys - yes I have custody. We are quite friendly towards each other at the moment. I am trying to be as business like a possible but when I say very little he then makes conversation. Example - this morning he came over to be with the kids so I could go to work. I said good morning and then he started talking about how he was out and about when the thunder and lightning happened the other night etc. I am confused because I am very glad we can be friendly with each other for my children's sakes but at the same time I don't want it to hinder my healing process.

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Thanks guys - yes I have custody. We are quite friendly towards each other at the moment. I am trying to be as business like a possible but when I say very little he then makes conversation. Example - this morning he came over to be with the kids so I could go to work. I said good morning and then he started talking about how he was out and about when the thunder and lightning happened the other night etc. I am confused because I am very glad we can be friendly with each other for my children's sakes but at the same time I don't want it to hinder my healing process.

 

Ultimately, your goal is to be friendly and create a new relationship as co-parents. I consider my ex-H to be a very good friend now and we often text and joke back and forth as well as discuss parenting issues on an almost daily basis. We will always have each others' back. We are united in our love and commitment to our son.

 

However, it's taken many years to get to this friendly place. Give yourself time to recover from the romantic relationship -- yes, the contact makes it more difficult, but it's not impossible. Be respectful of your own boundaries and aware of how much contact works for you. Don't push yourself to have more than you're comfortable with at first. He's going to be around for the rest of your life, you have time to figure things out. There's really no hurry to jump in and be best friends right away.

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I ask myself the same question. In june she will take the daughter to move to a new state to live with the man she left me for.

 

I say youre doing great. Alot better then most do. Keep on pushing. Only talk about your kids. Everything else doesnt matter really and is prolonging the healing process.

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Supersarahp,

 

Poor you.

 

It is a living nightmare. In fact, it's hell on a stick! But it doesn't last (nor as long as you think it will) and I guarantee you it leads to, at worst, same as before but different and, at best, a major improvement (or anywhere in between). You're going to be - GOING TO BE - utterly fine. You'll amaze yourself, in fact. You just need time and repetition in which your mind will get used to it and where new, replacement routines emerge, step by step, day by day. Try not to think too far ahead, just concentrate on the present as much as is possible.

 

And apart from that one descriptive, BOY are you understating!

 

If he's trying to make careful conversation, it could be for any/many aim(s) but I'd need to know the reason he ended it to be able to identify which:

 

[a] He's feeling typical post-abandoning paternal insecurity, like he should keep on your good side in case you try to wreak revenge using withholding of or deliberate un-cooperativeness with custody or in case the kids might refuse to see him without your encouragement (plus he might need to seek your advice given that you'll have been better versed in childcaring whereas he's out of his comfort zone for now);

He's wondering if he did the right thing and is trying to stop you from detaching too much (which your seeming lack of interest in chatting could signify) in case he needs to reverse his decision and get taken back;

[c] He only bailed out because of an over-long period of conflict devoid of any proper resolution, but now that he's away from the storm and feeling calmer he's sensing he went overboard and is trying to warm you back up (for the same above reason);

[d] He's not yet used to feeling so alone and you're his only 'friend'.

[e] He cheated and went to be with the mistress but, having reality burst their rosy bubble and too prematurely, it's causing negativity between them... hence second thoughts are beginining to creep up on him.

 

Well, tough t*ttie to him, then. He made his bed so now he's got to lie on it. Don't you make it softer FOR him. I'm not saying make it harder. Just not softer.

 

It makes me laugh how some fathers (and mothers, for that fact) go on oh-so-dramatically about how they'd do ANYTHING, even DIIIIEEE for their kids, blah-blah-blah, yet prove that's utter rubbish when they can't even do the far LESSER thing - which is to endure whilst persevering in trying every single thing possible to turn a marred marriage around or simply grit their romantic teeth and make do with friendship with perks until the kids are old enough to cope, during which they might see things improve meanwhile because, "oh, look, whaddayknow?!", it was just a normal phase of long-term marriage, anyway, as in a slow-moving rollercoaster where the ups, downs and loop-the-loops can last for years. We adults can pick ourselves up and find a replacement partner. Not so the kids their one and only, irreplacable parental unit splitting forever into two. (Not that you can't show the kids how to make kiddie lemonade out of kiddie lemons - you can (e.g. they get double the b-day and Xmas presents and two sets of toys), but, you get my gist.)

 

But what's important here is how his own agenda-centred behaviour affects YOU. You're not his wife any more, thanks to him, so his problems are not your problems and he should keep them to himself. What with him ignoring your hint to contain himself to mere civility, thereby making it impossible for you to keep your emotional distance in order to keep detaching because you're (understandably) not strong enough to politely but firmly cut him off the minute he starts with the chit-chat, and whereby this leaves you feeling like you've slid back to Square One or thereabouts, you're well within your rights to find anyone appropriate who'd be willing to play go-between until such time as you feel able to cope with seeing him.

 

How this works is, you drop the kids at the go-between's house from where he collects them, and then vice versa at drop-off time. That way you don't have to have, via sight and sound of him, a bigger chunk of this nightmare reality shoved in your face than you're capable of dealing with at this juncture on top of having to limit the kids' own emotional damage and suddenly being the sole parent and 'home-owner' and runner. You can adapt to your new situation and routines whilst virtually forgetting he exists. And then once you're au fait with said new routine, dealing with getting over him will be simpler, faster, easier than you'd expect, anyway.

 

Either grandparents are usually all too willing to agree because they have their own fears - that they'll lose a lot or all of their contact with their grandkids like others sadly have. Plus, they'll probably take the kids a good hour or more earlier than pick-up time in order to gain their own benefit, and probably give the kids their lunch/tea. This then allows the kids time to adapt to you having left the scene before dad turns up whilst giving you more of that vitally precious Me Time. It also means the kids don't see it as you trying to avoid daddy rather than it just being granny and grandpa wanting to see them both before and after to make it into the 'visiting' day, all in one go (because then daddy gets to see granny and grandpa, too).

 

Another tip for you because this one's a real killer if you don't know what it means: If when on your watch your kids say, 'I want daddy/I miss daddy!' and it makes you feel they're rejecting you in favour of him, they most certainly are not. What they MEAN is, I want daddy to be here AS WELL as you and they're worried he'll be alone and sad. Kids are ego crazy where trying to flex and test its power is concerned, including being the hero/rescuer of the piece. You can't give them that power (it ruins them) and nor can you give their father inclusion, but you CAN do it by proxy by suggesting they paint daddy a lovely picture or make him some sort of present to show him they were missing and thinking about him, which he can pin to his wall so that next time he'll already know they're thinking about him which will make him feel happy again ("hooray, the power!!!"). It'll calm them down and stop that plaintive whining and sense of helplessness, as well as give them something more positive and productive to occupy their minds (kiddie powerfulness the healthier way).

 

Another: kids are egocentric...the world revolves around them. If something happens, they must have made it happen. They automatically suspect it was their fault daddy left... that they weren't good kids enough/were bad. You'd be surprised to know that if that's never addressed they take that hang-up with them into adulthood. There's a brilliant, godsend of a book for younger kids (although it works on older ones, too) called, 'It's not your fault, Koko Bear'. GET IT. If your kids feel they were to blame, they'll act up big time...and that's the last thing you need when you're already struggling to take care of yourself. You could also give them a shoebox each, made into a literally-no-holds-barred suggestion/angry and nasty thoughts/questions box which they post notes into before bed and which you read once they're asleep and post replies to for the morning. It encourages them to get their anger and fears out of their system as well as helps you reassure them without breaking down....and they're taking a lot of their negativity out on the *box* instead of you. (In time, once you're stronger, you can progress to reading and responding in front of them.)

 

Also, kids aren't stupid. They just lack experience, frames of reference, and adult thought-to-words translation and vocab/grammar. Kids, being highly flexible, optimistic and free of self-limiting beliefs, can deal with anything as long as they know what they're dealing with. (Translate into concepts they understand, by all means, absolutely. But tell it like it *is* - as much as they need to know - so as not to confuse them in case they inevitably witness evidence that might clash with what they've been told. For example: "You know how when you and a schoolfriend fight and don't want to be with each other for a few days? Well, when that happens with adults, because their friendship is bigger and deeper that few days is bigger, too, and can last for months and months. And sometimes you decide you don't want to be BEST friends who live in the same house, any more. But we can't ever stop being your mummy and daddy, even if we start living in separate houses, any more than we could hold our breath for more than a minute or two without having to breathe again (- why don't you try it now, holding your breath forever, and see how impossible that is? -), so nothing bad whatsoever is going to happen to you... you'll just end up having a second, weekend house with a second bedroom with a second set of toys, double the Christmas and birthday presents, and, for quite a while to come, dad all to yourselves and then me all to yourselves (because you won't have to share him with me or me with him)..." (etc).

 

Kids take their cue from you. In the same way that, if you scream and run when you see a spider, they'll (monkey see, monkey do) think spiders are life-threatening and learn to scream and run, too - if you're acting like this is a nightmare, they'll believe it's life-threatening, go into DefCon1, and react accordingly....which will make things more difficult and testing/wearying for you. Hard as it is, you need to, not hide but LIMIT how often they see you upset. It's actually good for them to see you upset sometimes but only where they get to see see that it's a coping aid, not a sign you're crumbling. So straight afterwards, you have to smile and tell them you feel soooo much better for that good cry (and are still in complete charge and control of everything), so they needn't worry or try to come to your rescue. If you appear overall to be coping, they will cope. That simple.

 

Don't try to be strong in front of your friends, though. Use every available resource that life puts on for you (including this one). That, in fact, is the TRUE definition of strength and intelligence.

 

Jeez, I could go on all day.... Hope that helps for now?

 

xoxo

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Wow Nattersmatter what a response. Thank you so much for taking the time - it is very helpful thank you. I will try to explain the whole situation as conscisely as possible as I would value your opinion (as I am totally confused)

 

Ok so:

 

We met in 1999 - I was 19 he was 18. To be honest it was the first really serious relationship either of us had. We dated for 4 years before marrying (in that time he lived at my parents house for 3 years as he fell out with his mum) We married in August 2003. Our daughter was born in May 2005, our first son came along in Nov 2006 and our younger son was born in Feb 2008. So yes we had 3 children under the age of 3. I think that is when life started to get really stressful. I was at home with the children while he worked and I started to feel a bit trapped in a way. In September 2009 a male friend of my sister told me he was in love with me and wanted to be with me. This confused me as I had been feeling trapped and down for a long time and felt like my husband had not really appreciated me or supported me. Nothing happened with this other guy but one day I told my husband I was feeling unsure of our relationship and we kind of said we might end it. After a day I realised it wasn't our reltaionship I was unhappy with only the stress of life with 3 tiny children etc and the fact that this guy had messed my head up. So I told my husband what the guy had said to me and I told my husband that I loved him and that I wanted to make it work and that I was feeling in a rut etc. My husband was very understanding and we agreed I would look for a job to give me an outlet and that we would move on stronger. He said he didn't care about what some other guy wanted, only what I wanted. That was towards the end of 2009. I really think that was the turning point of our relationship. Everything had been/ seemed so good up until then. Even though my husband had been so undertsanding about how I was feeling - I think it made him insecure. It definitely changed things.

 

I got a job in 2010 working overnight in a supermarket - to fit in with his job and the child care. This was great from the point of view that I felt better about myself and our lives and things but bad because I was permently exhausted, my bodyclock was all over the place and I was a grouch! I was quite snappy and horrible to my husband at times while working nights. I did that for 2 years. I realised after a time that the nights were killing me and affecting my family. I found a much better job in insurance and started in October 2012. Brilliant - only catch was that it was full time. My idea was that if we could get through a few months of me doing full time then I would try to reduce my hours. Well my husband had to step up his side of the child care to help accommodate us both working full time. It was great not to be tired all the time from nights but hard to juggle everything - I kept telling myself it was just until I could sort out the hours. Over the last couple of months he has been saying he feels under pressure from all angles. If I am honest I didn't really take in what he was saying. I had just started a new job, was looking after 3 kids etc - I kind of thought he was just having a moan.

 

Over Christmas things were a bit stressful. His sister was having loads of problems and his mum was leaning on us a lot (she always has done). He was having some issues at work too and of course our home life was still a massive juggling act. I noticed he was a bit more snappy with me than usual.

 

On boxing day we went to visit his sister and the atmosphere in her house was horrendous. She was in tears the whole day because of problems with her partner. Her partner did not say 2 words to us. The whole day was awful. My husband and I ended up having a small row but resolved it. I went to work on 27th Dec but I felt like crap - very drained and just uneasy. On my break I rang my husband just cos I thought he would cheer me up. He was very curt with me. Said he had just had his mum on the phone for a hour and he needed to clean up. I left the call feeling unsupported. When I got home I didn't know how he would be as we had left the call on a sour note. I decided to just get something to eat out of the fridge and then gauge the situation. He said he was taking a table back to his mums and would be 5 mins and we talked fine. He was gone for 3 hours. I was angry but decided not to cause an argument. When he got home I simply said "you were a long time" He said he lost track of time. I said "I am not angry or anything like that but I will say I don't believe you can lose track of time for 3 hours when you said you would be 5 minutes - it would have been nice for you to let me know what was happening - I wouldn't have had a problem with you staying out" He apologised. We were talkign and I can't remember but I said something like "what are we doing tomorrow?" and he said "dying would be good don't you think?" He decided to sleep on the sofa and I didn't know why. I convinced him not to and we had kisses and cuddles and I thought things were a bit better - he told me he loved me.

 

I went to work on 28th Dec (he had some hols over christmas). I felt very uneasy again at work. I text him saying "Hi, hope you are feeling ok today, love you". He replied with "No I am not!" I felt incredibly uneasy about that. I replied saying "why? what's the matter? should I come home?" I got no reply. I was sitting at my desk feeling terrible and I could feel tears in my eyes. I had an overwhelming sense that I needed to go home. My kids were there you know. So I made an excuse to my boss and I caught the bus home. He said "what are you doing home?" I told him I was worried. He said he had smashed up his phone and smashed his head against the wall and that his mum had been on the phone again doing his head in. He said he didn't see a way forward for us and didn't know if we could continue. Of course I said we would talk about it and work it out. He started crying and said the only person who cared about him was our friend Jonathan. I reached out to him but he wouldn't let me touch him. I told him I loved him and would do whatever it took to make it right and make him feel happier. He said he just can't cope anymore and didn't know what to do.

 

For the next week we lived like that. He slept in the spare room. I tried to get him to talk but he wouldn't. He just said he didn't know whether we could continue. I was a mess. I did keep trying to talk to him about it - I tried to give him space but it was really hard. He had such pain and hurt in his eyes. On new years day we talked a little and he said he really thought we should split but he didn't want to leave the home. I asked if he wanted me to leave (not that I would have) he said "no no I don't want you to leave" I said I was confused then. He said maybe we could just live in the house as friends and I agreed (as I didn't know what else to do). We did that for a few days and it was hard but we were actually getting on really well. My head and emotions were all over the place but all I had felt was compassion for him and a want to help him with whatever he was going through. On 4th Jan I came on my period and whether that was the cause or not I don't know but I suddenly got angry. I was so upset and emotional I couldn't stop crying and he was so emotionless and did not appear to care. He was doing some exercise and I decided to ring a friend who had recently been through a split as i wanted some practical advice. My husband overheard the call but I didn't realise. I hadn't said anything really bad on the call just that I felt like we should try to make the marriage work but he wouldn't and that maybe I need to start thinking of myself and the kids. Well he was really angry - I could almost feel it coming off him. He said he was going to bed and I asked him why he was angry and he said "well why were you crying earlier?" I said "because you said we are splitting up and you don't love me anymore" he said "I didn't say that second bit" we ended up having a row with me asking him if he still loved me and him refusing to answer me. He eventually admitted that he does still love me but he can't cope anymore. He went to his mums that night and has not slept at our house with me there since.

 

He was uncontactable for over a week (remember he smashed his phone). He didn't even ring to speak to the kids (he is usually a fantastic hands on dad). Since then he has had the children overnight at his mums house. I suggested he could stay at ours and I would stay at my mums for a night just to give him time with the kids and also as I was working and he was off and I thought it would be less unsettling for the kids to be in their home environment. We did this for two tuesdays in a row. At this point he was paying the bills and saying he may move back in as friends. Last Weds he told me he isn't coming back. He changed all the bills into my name and informed our landlord. At that time I said to him I was no longer going to stay at my mums when he was here. I said he was still welcome to stay over to look after the kids but I wasn't leaving my home. He said "It is still the family home though" I said "no it isn't because you left, it is now my home" He had trouble with that one but agreed that he would stay over with me still here. The first time that happens will be tonight.

 

Saturday was his birthday, Sunday was my birthday (I know great right) - we have always celebrated our birthdays together as they are one day apart. This weekend was very hard. He had the kids on sat night and brought them home sunday lunch time. I got him a small gift and one from each of the kids and he did the same for me.

 

That is the facts up until now really. I will write another post of some of the tings he has said to try to give greater insight but I am at work now and about to finish and have been writing this in between calls from customers so am gonna sign off now and will write the rest later. (Concise my arse!!!!)

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Am on the bus home now! Of your options nattersmatter I think he is closest to C - he only bailed because of an overlong period of conflict without a proper resolution . Not sure about him regretting it though.

 

To me it is like there has been a big build up and one day he just snapped. Obviously it is mostly about our relationship but I do think it is other pressures as well. During this past month he has said a lot of things that make me think he does still care and that maybe he is not making such decisions with a completely clear head. He is adamant we are over though and his actions are that we are over so I am trying to accept that and find a way to move forward.

 

The day he said we should live in the house a friends he said this:

 

"Please don't think you are unattractive - you are very attractive and I could so easily put my arms around you and hug you bit Sarah I can't cope with the situation any more - I just can't "

 

When we had the row and I told him I could see he still loves me he said

 

"Well you can't help your feelings can you? But I am so hurt "

 

When I said to him that if someone had told me this would be happening a week ago (at the beginning ) I wouldn't have believed them" he said "neither would I"

 

Just the other day he said he feels like he is outside his own body watching all of this happen and none of it is real.

 

 

So yes I am confused but am trying to focus on myself and the kids or now rather than obsessing over his words an actions - whatever will be will be I guess.

 

 

The irony is that because of all this my work has agreed to me working just 3 days a week which would have taken loads of pressure off us had it happened before!!!

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You don't need to thank me - I see it as my social duty as a pack animal living in a (nowadays) single, great big pack. Plus I have a huge advantage in that I type at a rate that makes people gasp (pianist since age 1).

 

Ok so:

 

We met in 1999 - I was 19 he was 18.

 

That's very young... undoubtedly too young to know what you wanted for the rest of your lives, let alone whom with (as in whether you both had the lasting requisites). So it'll have both its major disadvantages (you both still growing/developing and possibly in opposite directions in places) as well as advantages (by now a habit that'll be horrendously hard to break). Hmm... it's not hard to see why he'd have experienced a major culture shock in suddenly living elsewhere and waking up alone, is it.

 

To be honest it was the first really serious relationship either of us had. We dated for 4 years before marrying (in that time he lived at my parents house for 3 years as he fell out with his mum).

 

Falling out with his mum possibly would have given his mere half-urge to cohabit with you a 'leg-up'. That's not reason enough, is it.

 

We married in August 2003. Our daughter was born in May 2005,

 

Well, this is a good sign - the fact you both had enough time to get used to being an independent couple, getting to enjoy a 'honeymoon', (and whom, I presume, had moved into your own place by now?).

 

our first son came along in Nov 2006 and our younger son was born in Feb 2008.

 

So daughter was only 1-and-a-half when first son was born and then the two of them were only 2-and-nine-months and 1-and-3-months. Did they happen in quick succession like that by design? And did you have time and energy left over to be a romantic couple rather than just mum and dad? And was dad helpful or did he have trouble getting relegated to the back of the needs-tending queue?

 

So yes we had 3 children under the age of 3. I think that is when life started to get really stressful. I was at home with the children while he worked and I started to feel a bit trapped in a way.

 

In what way? And why? Didn't you have adequate support and back-up?

 

In September 2009

 

Which means when youngest was 1-and-seven-months.

 

a male friend of my sister told me he was in love with me and wanted to be with me. This confused me as I had been feeling trapped and down for a long time and felt like my husband had not really appreciated me or supported me.

 

Ah. So he HADN'T supported you parentally?

 

Did this man represent a step ladder out of your hole (which you obviously had to decline but then knew you wanted, escape-ladder-wise)?

 

What sort of mum had your husband's mother been?

 

Nothing happened with this other guy but one day I told my husband I was feeling unsure of our relationship and we kind of said we might end it.

 

What, together? Simultaneously? ("Jinx!, ha-ha"?) I doubt that. So what did he say in response to you saying you were unsure? And what did you say to whatever he said? I need the actual conversation if you can?

 

After a day I realised it wasn't our reltaionship I was unhappy with only the stress of life with 3 tiny children etc and the fact that this guy had messed my head up.

 

No, seeing an escape ladder in the midst of there having been a distinct lack of one had.

 

So I told my husband what the guy had said to me

 

Ffff! OOCH!! Did you have to? Wasn't he taking you seriously enough until you did?...trying to ignore it and make it all go away?

 

and I told my husband that I loved him and that I wanted to make it work and that I was feeling in a rut etc. My husband was very understanding

 

He's just been told by his wife and the mother of his kids - his entire source of security - that another man came seriously onto her as well as having the dialogue regurgitated in his face and yet he managed to come accross very understanding and nothing else? Hmmm... unless he's an android, I doubt THAT. Is he good at hiding his feelings from you/everyone normally? Is he a bottler? And had he ever come to the point where his cork bursts involuntarily from its bottleneck, contents spewing with force everywhere? Or did he have an amazingly tight cork?

 

and we agreed I would look for a job to give me an outlet and that we would move on stronger. He said he didn't care about what some other guy wanted, only what I wanted. That was towards the end of 2009. I really think that was the turning point of our relationship.

 

Ya think?!*!?

 

Everything had been/ seemed so good up until then. Even though my husband had been so undertsanding about how I was feeling - I think it made him insecure.

 

YA THINK???"*!!!?

 

Mate, if he was a feelings bottler and cacher, he was ALWAYS insecure. This would have just made him WORSE. (Watch out that cork and that floor...!)

 

It definitely changed things.

 

Gosh...I cannot understand it, what a mystery (LOL sorry but - come ooooon missus! - THINK! You're not standing in HIS shoes. You're standing only beside them. Even *now*.)

 

I got a job in 2010 working overnight in a supermarket - to fit in with his job and the child care.

 

Owhh dearrr.

 

This was great from the point of view that I felt better about myself and our lives and things but bad because I was permently exhausted, my bodyclock was all over the place and I was a grouch!

 

Yyyyyup. And you two ships never "passed" in the night, let alone honked your horns at each other, aside, I presume, from the weekends - by which time you were having to recover from the week, right?

 

Owhhhh dearrrrr.

 

I was quite snappy and horrible to my husband at times while working nights.

 

Were you? Why? I don't mean why did you feel like being snappy. I mean, why HIM? Why any person? Are you a bottler, too?... but one whose cork isn't as tight thus MIMES rather than puts into words? OR is that just with him because HE'S like that and you took his modus operandum on (like 'spongey' women tend to do)?

 

I did that for 2 years

 

Ohhhhhh. (ohhhhh)

 

I realised after a time that the nights were killing me and affecting my family.

 

Again - YA THINK?

 

Why 'after a time'? Husband saying nothing, not even lodging a calm complaint or request, again?

 

I found a much better job in insurance and started in October 2012. Brilliant - only catch was that it was full time.

 

Have you noticed there's always some catch in this picture? Is it far fetched at this point to ask you whether a part of you WANTED some catch to serve to keep you and husband from regaining togetherness and harmony?

 

Again - how mature and helpful was he having found himself relegated to the back of the queue?

 

My idea was that if we could get through a few months of me doing full time then I would try to reduce my hours.

 

Wouldn't it have just been easier to have declined that job in favour of one without any catch?

 

And, Do you think this simple enough (except in your world) remedy would have occurred to husband at any point?

 

Well my husband had to step up his side of the child care to help accommodate us both working full time.

 

Ahhhhhhh! At this point I can answer my own question: Where childcare involvement had been concerned, and to the level that you/any woman actually required of him, he had been as useless as a chocolate teapot!

 

You are passive-aggressive. BUT ONLY WITH HIM. Because you have no other avenue open to you and an avenue there must be.

 

It was great not to be tired all the time from nights but hard to juggle everything - I kept telling myself it was just until I could sort out the hours.

 

Yeah, but if you'd done that, you'd have lost out his "having to" be more involved with the kids and house maintenance, wouldn't you.

 

Over the last couple of months he has been saying he feels under pressure from all angles.

 

Well, that makes two of you, then, doesn't it. And lucky him that he's only been feeling it for a couple of months (- try years, pal). Ohhh, don't get my feminist side started, LOL.

 

If I am honest I didn't really take in what he was saying. I had just started a new job, was looking after 3 kids etc - I kind of thought he was just having a moan.

 

Yes. Because he's seriously under-assertive (under the cover of manly-Stoic). His exploding sounds like other people's mere mumbling. Tell me - did he originally move out of his mother's or flee from her (or his father or both)?

 

Over Christmas things were a bit stressful.

 

LOL. Say it with me this time, Sarah, go on - have a much-needed giggle about it: "YA THINK?" (LOL - shall we shorten it to just YT?)

 

PS: You do realise this is the same ol' ancient story but with new actors (this time round, you and hubby), don't you? If you don't - trust me, it is.

 

His sister was having loads of problems and his mum was leaning on us a lot (she always has done).

 

She always has done. Sister (now they're separate adults) isn't THAT important. So it wasn't them, was it.

 

He was having some issues at work too

 

Yes. A cork that's finally creaking and groaning with the pressure of an avalanche behind it will tend to do that.

 

and of course our home life was still a massive juggling act. I noticed he was a bit more snappy with me than usual.

 

Than usual? Pray tell (tip - *do*). I.e. how long in years was 'usual'?

 

On boxing day we went to visit his sister and the atmosphere in her house was horrendous. She was in tears the whole day because of problems with her partner.

 

Oh. Sister's having problems, too? Coincidence, do you think? Or just a manifesting a deux after a critical period of X years' gestation?

 

What about your own siblings? They having or have ever had your problem? Or are their relationships ticketyboo?

 

Her partner did not say 2 words to us. The whole day was awful. My husband and I ended up having a small row but resolved it.

 

Who started it, what was said? What are you calling 'resolved'?

 

I went to work on 27th Dec but I felt like crap - very drained and just uneasy.

 

LOL... you know what I'm trying hard not to yell in pantomime stylee right now, right? I'll give you a clue: it starts with Y and ends in INK.

 

Sorry - I'm not laughing at you and your situation, I'm laughing at the way you understate and minimise and want me to say it all FOR you. Not that I have a problem with that. It's just you remind me of some Gary Larson sketch where you've got one arm hanging off, spurting arterial blood, and are stood there with a composed expressing saying, 'Oh... what this...? It's just a little underarm shaving nick'. LOL (;-) Just trying to make you laff.)

 

On my break I rang my husband just cos I thought he would cheer me up. He was very curt with me.

 

Interesting, that, isn't it... when he doesn't have your face and body in front of him, he's suddenly Mr Assertive.

 

Who was over-dominant with him - mum or dad?

 

Said he had just had his mum on the phone for a hour and he needed to clean up. I left the call feeling unsupported.

 

Yes, because he was saying, "Not NOW, Bernard" and "My mother is more important than you and the mess is more important than you".

 

When I got home I didn't know how he would be as we had left the call on a sour note. I decided to just get something to eat out of the fridge and then gauge the situation.

 

Do you mean a snack or actual supper??

 

He said he was taking a table back to his mums and would be 5 mins and we talked fine. He was gone for 3 hours.

 

...as he sat telling mum about it all. Cos, of course, her having "a" table that evening rather than the next morning or next night was IMPERATIVE, wasn't it (not).

 

I was angry but decided not to cause an argument.

 

Does being honest about how ticked off you are have to necessarily lead to an argument?

 

When he got home I simply said "you were a long time" He said he lost track of time. I said "I am not angry or anything like that but I will say I don't believe you can lose track of time for 3 hours when you said you would be 5 minutes - it would have been nice for you to let me know what was happening - I wouldn't have had a problem with you staying out"

 

Nice one! 90% honest, very assertive. But note you had to lie and say you WEREN'T angry? What would have happened if you'd admitted you were? Does he go 'funny' if someone reveals they're angry with him?

 

He apologised. We were talkign and I can't remember but I said something like "what are we doing tomorrow?" and he said "dying would be good don't you think?"

 

EH? He goes talk to his mother and instead of coming back feeling purged and positive, he's turned into Mr Negative from MelodramaVille? What - no joy at mum's, then? Or did she encourage the idea that the situation was unsalvageable and thereby inspire total despair?

 

He decided to sleep on the sofa and I didn't know why.

 

YEP - SHE CRANKED HIM UP INSTEAD OF DOWN.... COS YOU "STOLE" HER BABY FROM HER ALL THOSE YEARS AGO, YOU FIEND! (Geddit? She's a cacher/bottler as well.)

 

I convinced him not to and we had kisses and cuddles and I thought things were a bit better - he told me he loved me.

 

Cuddles and kisses have this magical effect, if briefly??

 

I went to work on 28th Dec (he had some hols over christmas).

 

How come you didn't have hols?

 

I felt very uneasy again at work. I text him saying "Hi, hope you are feeling ok today, love you". He replied with "No I am not!" I felt incredibly uneasy about that.

 

Had you forgotten to cuddle and kiss him again that morning before you left?

 

I replied saying "why? what's the matter? should I come home?" I got no reply. I was sitting at my desk feeling terrible and I could feel tears in my eyes. I had an overwhelming sense that I needed to go home. My kids were there you know. So I made an excuse to my boss and I caught the bus home. He said "what are you doing home?" I told him I was worried. He said he had smashed up his phone and smashed his head against the wall and that his mum had been on the phone again doing his head in.

 

DOING HIS HEAD IN, LOOK! By now, we know what that specifically means, don't we.

 

He said he didn't see a way forward for us and didn't know if we could continue.

 

No, he didn't. MUM DID - and he merely parrotted it! There again... hasn't he got a mind and brain of his own by now? Or did mum do such a good number on him?

 

Of course I said we would talk about it and work it out. He started crying and said the only person who cared about him was our friend Jonathan. I reached out to him but he wouldn't let me touch him.

 

He wasn't ready yet. He hadn't finished puking.

 

I told him I loved him and would do whatever it took to make it right and make him feel happier. He said he just can't cope anymore and didn't know what to do.

 

(poor b*gger)

 

Translation: mummy-replacement is back and will make it all better / yeth, pwease (cos I can't, I'm only wickle... mum said so (and said so and said so....)).

 

(Here's what he could do: Stop listening to his vindictive mother who still has that old axe to grind, for starters.)

 

For the next week we lived like that. He slept in the spare room. I tried to get him to talk but he wouldn't. He just said he didn't know whether we could continue.

 

I think the tap had by then been turned too far and had got stuck like that AND he was enjoying the overdue return to TLC (as in your total attention) thus was milking it.

 

I was a mess.

 

Er. No, you weren't. You don't do 'mess'. You get it done whilst you snap-snap-snap (impersonally) and BECAUSE you snap-snap-snap.

 

I did keep trying to talk to him about it

 

(See what I mean?)

 

- I tried to give him space but it was really hard.

 

Course. There was something needed fixing and you couldn't get at it because he had it (in his safe). Enough to drive Superwoman crazy. ;-)

 

He had such pain and hurt in his eyes.

 

What - like you had when he'd done his chocolate teapot impressions?

 

On new years day we talked a little and he said he really thought we should split but he didn't want to leave the home.

 

ROFL! Sarah, see that sentance for the nonsense it is and laugh your face off like you should have (and would have had you not been so overwrought at the time).

 

I asked if he wanted me to leave (not that I would have) he said "no no I don't want you to leave" I said I was confused then.

 

Allow me: If YOU'RE the one to leave, you're the one who has control and might find you preferred the situation and might not come back whereas if HE leaves, he can have control over coming back again. He knew even at THIS point that he wasn't leaving-leaving. He's NOT left you - he's doing a one-man protest march, one that you'll never forget. No WONDER he's panicking that you've seen his five, taken it for being genuine money, and have raised him five (by acting like it's real, not chatting on the doorstep, even). Geddit?

 

He said maybe we could just live in the house as friends and I agreed (as I didn't know what else to do). We did that for a few days and it was hard but we were actually getting on really well. My head and emotions were all over the place but all I had felt was compassion for him and a want to help him with whatever he was going through.

 

But there was one problem: you were TOO KNACKERED to do it like you'd used to. Right? He wanted you to do it like you'd used to.

 

On 4th Jan I came on my period and whether that was the cause or not I don't know but I suddenly got angry.

 

Not the cause, no. Never the cause (you listening, fellas?). Just the key that opens the dam door which is normally kept out of the way on the shelf in times of greater strength which goes on resilience and tolerance.

 

I was so upset and emotional I couldn't stop crying and he was so emotionless and did not appear to care.

 

Oh, he cared alright. When he cares, he goes all android, remember? But you'd said 'Superwoman back to the rescuuue!' and he was going to hold you to that.

 

He was doing some exercise

 

Crying, bycycling style, LOL. (What is he LIKE?) (what is *she* like!!!)

 

and I decided to ring a friend who had recently been through a split as i wanted some practical advice.

 

Aww, gaaawd. A SEPARATED friend rather than a fixed and stayed put friend??? You two are over-risky poker players, do you know that?

 

My husband overheard the call but I didn't realise.

 

Did you think despite he was still in the house, the batteries on his ears were probably dead? *You* may not have realised, but You *did* and planned it that way.

 

I hadn't said anything really bad on the call

 

It wasn't just what was said, it was WHO YOU CALLED. Actions speak louder! (But so do ones faked out of desperation, sadly.)

 

just that I felt like we should try to make the marriage work but he wouldn't and that maybe I need to start thinking of myself and the kids.

 

And (gosh, how strange and unexpected when he was at home) he overheard.

 

Well he was really angry - I could almost feel it coming off him.

 

YT???

 

(And do you two race each other to the car every time with the loser a stinky poo-poo, 'n all???)

 

He said he was going to bed and I asked him why he was angry and he said "well why were you crying earlier?" I said "because you said we are splitting up and you don't love me anymore" he said "I didn't say that second bit"

 

He's right - he didn't. Why did you say he did?

 

we ended up having a row

 

Crikey - an actual row for once?

 

with me asking him if he still loved me and him refusing to answer me.

 

He already HAD said he loved you, hadn't he? What else does 'I didn't say that last bit' MEAN to you?

 

He eventually admitted that he does still love me but he can't cope anymore.

 

Yes. But we already knew that, didn't we. He wants YOU to cope because YOU were always mummy-replacement and coping is mum's job (never his - he's too wickle and he'll only get it wrong).

 

Has his mum got a job by any chance? If so - is it an interesting one?

 

He went to his mums that night and has not slept at our house with me there since.

 

Aw, god - not her?!

 

He was uncontactable for over a week (remember he smashed his phone). He didn't even ring to speak to the kids (he is usually a fantastic hands on dad).

 

Don't you mean in recent years, with the kids having gotten older and him having been put in a position (by you working) where he had had to, he had been a fantastic hands-on dad? Or are you just deifying him now that he's (seemingly) gone?

 

Since then he has had the children overnight at his mums house. I suggested he could stay at ours and I would stay at my mums for a night just to give him time with the kids and also as I was working and he was off and I thought it would be less unsettling for the kids to be in their home environment.

 

No, you didn't, you clever little stick, you. You had been sensing yet couldn't articulate what *I've* worked out and spelled out - that he needs any opportunity to be away from his interfering mother! Well,... yes he does. But he also needs to stand on his own two feet by now rather than let her influence him and his actions/decisions to that degree.

 

We did this for two tuesdays in a row. At this point he was paying the bills and saying he may move back in as friends
.

 

Friends schmiends. Friends is just his way of saying: you have to give me room to breathe and think because you have been temporarily denied your usual position as gives you the right to expect fuller, more proactive participation and situation-fixing.

 

Last Weds he told me he isn't coming back.

 

Yeh. Cos he told his MOTHER what had been discussed and so she got out the BIG guns!

 

Still... he didn't have to listen to her, did he.

 

He changed all the bills into my name and informed our landlord. At that time I said to him I was no longer going to stay at my mums when he was here. I said he was still welcome to stay over to look after the kids but I wasn't leaving my home.

 

Good for you!

 

He said "It is still the family home though" I said "no it isn't because you left, it is now my home"

 

GOOD FOR YOU! And quite right - he wants Too Far? He can HAVE Too Far? Let's see mummy make it better with a brilliant solution THIS time, eh?!

 

He had trouble with that one but agreed that he would stay over with me still here. The first time that happens will be tonight.

 

Noted. And I don't think he had quite as much 'trouble' as he made out and would have liked you to think, actually. (Actions!)

 

Saturday was his birthday, Sunday was my birthday (I know great right)

 

Yeah, this is definitely going like some comedy of errors, I agree!

 

- we have always celebrated our birthdays together as they are one day apart. This weekend was very hard. He had the kids on sat night and brought them home sunday lunch time. I got him a small gift and one from each of the kids and he did the same for me.

 

Ah! Did yous, indeed? GOOD SIGN! (Bet he never told his mother he was going to do that, eh.)

 

That is the facts up until now really. I will write another post of some of the tings he has said to try to give greater insight but I am at work now and about to finish and have been writing this in between calls from customers so am gonna sign off now and will write the rest later. (Concise my arse!!!!)

 

Don't do yourself down - that was PERFECT. Perfect amount of detail, perfect inclusion of only the wholly pertinent and no irritating 'fluff'. Yep - good recounting, missus, keep that up.

 

Will now look at your latest...

 

xoxo

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Am on the bus home now! Of your options nattersmatter I think he is closest to C - he only bailed because of an overlong period of conflict without a proper resolution . Not sure about him regretting it though.

 

He bailed out for many reasons - albeit they all belong to that 'C' theme:

1. He co-created that overlong period of conflict thanks to the fact he was raised by an overbearing mother who 'kicked' any assertiveness out of him and trained him to bottle things up majorly as well as stunted one side of his psyche with all her 'no, no, mummy do its'.

2. He is a child in a grown-up man's suit (again, thanks to his rearing).

3. You were gagging for kids from a very young age (because you were more mature than your years even back then) and he fit the bill as a 'practise dolly' yet wasn't quite so cute and diverting once you'd sprogged REAL kids and found yourself with a total of four instead of three.

4. His mother refused you any support, either, so you don't like her and she CERTAINLY doesn't like you (not least because SHE HERSELF is a child in a grown-up woman's suit) because it was your fault he didn't return home after that time he'd fled, doncha know (so HE'D told her in his desperate attempt to avoid her usual flack). He knows this and part-uses his mother against you whilst his mum obviously tries to put the knife in any chance she gets. ...Yep - this is in part a tug-o'-war between you and his mother. Fortunately, she can't give him lover-type affection and sex and nor is she the keeper of his kids and his potential, court-backed wealth-halver/destroyer (in fact, you'd get more like two thirds having 3 kids if it came to it).

5. Since for longer than he can remember, you're suddenly all over him like a rash again and heeee's LOVIN' IT (with fries and a milkshake)!

6. He can sense you're in two minds over staying married to him and have been for years. He's very worried about that yet still caught in this trap of playing high-stakes poker (backed by his mum). Normally, it's the man who stands stoic and civil/formal on the doorstep and the wife who's trying desperately to get him to chit-chat and "remember when...".

7. AND, of course, another part of him genuinely feels overloaded with angst and panic and confusion.

8. If you become mum again, he'll tell real (pff!) mum to butt out.

9. This is all great foreplay (much-needed, I might add).

 

Re-play the recent tape and try to spot whether whenever you relax some, i.e. your over-attentiveness wanes, that's when he cranks up the negativity and pressure again (including acting-out the hint that he's bringing the Mum card into the game yet again). Bet you you will.

 

To me it is like there has been a big build up and one day he just snapped.

 

Huuuuuge build up, yes.

 

Obviously it is mostly about our relationship but I do think it is other pressures as well.

 

Heh-heh - YT????

 

During this past month he has said a lot of things that make me think he does still care and that maybe he is not making such decisions with a completely clear head.

 

Half of him knows precisely what he's doing/manipulating; the other half doesn't. Sorry - start again: One third of him knows, one third doesn't, and another third shouldn't even exist 'inside' him (his mum!).

 

You need to think of a cunning way to get him away from her and her nasty influence. The woman is very unhappy (and has been for decades) and is making that your problem. She did NOT believe that you were instigative in her son fleeing her home. But she took his Green light for thinking so and ran with it because she's a desperately unhappy woman, not to mention so bored and empty she wants her "baby" back, STILL.

 

But that 'half' of him does *have* her number, you know. Because note - only JONATHAN cares about him! Shouldn't that have been, 'Only my mum'? (Actions!!)

 

He is adamant we are over though and his actions are that we are over so I am trying to accept that and find a way to move forward.

 

Look again... What irreversible actions has he executed?

 

The day he said we should live in the house a friends he said this:

 

"Please don't think you are unattractive - you are very attractive and I could so easily put my arms around you and hug you bit Sarah I can't cope with the situation any more - I just can't "

 

He means now as in at present. I think you need to give him time for his flooded engine to drain whilst thinking of some way to get him away from his mother.

 

Alternatively, you need to decide whether you can stomach remaining being married to a child whom himself was born and reared by a child or whether, now your kids are getting to an age where teenagedom doesn't seem quite so far away as it once did, you want a more adult man? But this is the thing: you have all the romantic time in the world. Your kids only have one fleeting childhood. So IDEALLY it would be better all-round (if you did come to the latter decision) to just hold off until they do leave home.

 

(BTW - I note you don't mention dad at all. Left the mother-in-law years ago, did he? Or is he so limp lettuce leaf as to be virtually non-descript?)

 

When we had the row and I told him I could see he still loves me he said

 

"Well you can't help your feelings can you? But I am so hurt "

 

That one is the only statement he's made that contains the truth, the whole truth and nothing BUT the truth.

 

When I said to him that if someone had told me this would be happening a week ago (at the beginning ) I wouldn't have believed them" he said "neither would I"

 

And - ditto.

 

You need to KEEP coming out with statements like this about your true feelings, so THAT you and he can start constantly agreeing with each other. This will help a lot. A LOT. It'll remind him why he fell in love with you in the first place (Tweedledee and Tweedledum, you two are, LOL).

 

Just the other day he said he feels like he is outside his own body watching all of this happen and none of it is real.

 

Correct. And it's not. It's only partly real and partly immature nonsense. He's the immature one but you're too easily sucked into the playpen. Hardly surprising when you'd grown up so super-quickly, is it - you never really got your fill. ;-)

 

So yes I am confused but am trying to focus on myself and the kids or now rather than obsessing over his words an actions - whatever will be will be I guess.

 

Feelings and true intentions are the only thing that matters. These could produce spaghetti and meatballs rather than words and surface actions but where that love and good intention exists, you'd STILL end up back to Sensible Land regardless.

 

This, moreover, is just a very overdue humdinger. It's taken this long for the pair of you (moreover him) to grow the confidence portion that comes purely with age. He's loving the drama. You're loving the drama. And Mother-in-law is REALLY loving the drama!

 

The irony is that because of all this my work has agreed to me working just 3 days a week which would have taken loads of pressure off us had it happened before!!!

 

But if it had happened before now, you and he wouldn't finally - FINALLY! - be getting to drastically alter a seriously out of date dynamic. The pair of you were always too busy to realise you had any altering to do. Now you're having to play catch-up in double-quick time (for the sake of those kids who are becoming more and more attentive to what's going on in reality rather than in their imaginations). So it's NOW that you need this 3-day week, not back then. See what I'm saying?

 

Fate is obviously on your (plural) side.

 

No worries - you're just in the midst of a process. A marital chrysalis if you like.

 

xoxo

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Lastly but not leastly nor terminally: DON'T accept it. PRETEND you accept it and go through the 'I believe you' motions like you're doing, if you want him to sort his own stuntedness-based issues in his own mind without involving you to the extent whereby he's getting to manipulate you and thinking it works beautifully. If you let him think he can manipulate you, he'll label that jar Magic Worms and use them again and again and again and AGAIN, and then you WILL have to divorce him.

 

So be honest - to force him to automatically have to be (through the fact that you is der boss, the "Simon" who "says", here). The overall message - to make him realise he has power and full responsibility here, is, 'I believe you but that makes me so very, very sad because although we 'lost' each other in the melee and nappies, not least through not updating our dynamic, I do still love you to itty bitty pieces. I am allowing you to destroy everything you've worked for but WITH HUGE REGRET'. Stop playing poker with him and raising his fives like you don't really care and Up His!. Him thinking you don't care is the whole crux of the problem here. You don't have to pretend you don't love someone just because they're acting like an idiot and hurting you in the process. You can refuse to take nonsense without having to pretend it doesn't hurt. This isn't a competition about who needs whom least, is it.

 

He's a kid (emotionally, certainly). Remember, when kids say, 'I hhhhhhhhhhhhhATE you!' you're not supposed to say 'Well, I hate you, too!' and neither are you supposed to say, 'Pff...see if *I* care'. You're supposed to say, 'Oh. That's a shame because I love you LOADS. Oh, dear... How sad...'.

 

xoxo

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Wow Thanks again - it is like having my own personal counsellor - thanks you are very insightful.

 

I pretty much agree with everything you have said. I will try to give you a bit more information and answer the questions you have raised.

 

I guess I am not quite sure exactly when I started to feel unsupported or trapped. Well if I really think about it I guess it was when I became pregnant with our 3rd child. I will tell you a bit of the history for clarity.

 

Basically we had been married a year and I wanted to try for a baby. My husband (I will call him C from now on) agreed and we thought it would take a few mths. The very next month I was pregnant! It was fine though - we had planned it. When our daughter was 8 months old I found out I was pregnant again. Wow we had not planned for this one. Hey ho though it is all good we knew we wanted 3 children - just was happening a bit quicker than we thought. So then we had 2 children - I was just starting to think I would go back to work starting to get a bit fed up of being at home ALL the time. I was actively looking for work and then bam! My daughter was barely 2 and my son 6 months and I found out I was pregnant for a third time! We were both knocked for six. Yes I know we could have been more careful etc etc but here we were. I was actually in denial about it for a while and horrendous as it feels now I really did not want the baby. I would never consider doing anything to end my pregnancy though. By my 12 week scan I had come around to the idea though. I can't remember C's feeling s on it. I know he was shocked at first too - his exact words when I told him were "that's it I am getting the snip". It seems so long ago now it is hard to remember. By the time son 2 came along we were overjoyed with him. We had both gotten into this online game and played it most nights on separate computers which in hindsight was rubbish because we were not interacting as a couple. I had been trying to learn to drive. I ended up failing 6 tests before giving up. So basically that is when I really started feeling trapped. I was at home 24/7 with 3 tiny children and no real means of transport when C was at work. I couldn't take all 3 on the bus by myself while they were that small. I used to wait for C to be home so we could go places but more often than not he wanted to stay home. It frustrated me. He got really into the computer game (so did I but not to the same extent I don't think). I used to go on there to chat to other people mainly, for an outlet to interact. He got obsessed with the levels and stuff. I suggested a few times that we make a "date night" but he always said it shouldn't be forced it should be natural. I decided to go on a diet and I lost 4 stone. He piled on weight. He used to sit at the computer eating chocolate, never socialising, never wanting to go out. I started to resent him and being with him. I started losing interest in him sexually. I tried to "spice" things up in that department but he wasn't interested. "why change things? it's fine as it is" I started fantasising about a different life with a man who was different. If C ever went out (not often) I would have thoughts in my head like "imagine if something happened to him and he never came back - then I would be free". I would immediately feel guilty about it. This continued until Sept 2009 when my sister's friend said those things to me. At around the same time I was talking to an online friend called Cherry about how I was feeling (not the stuff about C dying but just that I felt unfulfilled and stuff). One day C was really off with me and I asked why and he admitted he had seen what I was talking about to Cherry. He was really angry about it. I apologised and said I wouldn't discuss it with anyone anymore. The thing is - I couldn't discuss it with him because he was always unwilling. So I carried on feeling trapped until the one day when my sister's friend had said he wanted to be with me. I didn't even like this guy in that way but it started to look like an appealing alternative. He sent me a text referring to me as 'gorgeous' C had seen it and I brushed it off. That is when I thought enough is enough. I said to C that I wasn't sure about my feelings for him anymore. I was crying and said I didn't know what I wanted. His response was "ok well if that is how you feel then that is it I guess. You can't help how you feel. I guess we are over". I went to bed and he slept on the sofa. I was lying in bed and thinking and thinking. I just kept thinking "this is wrong this is wrong". I went downstairs and I said to C. "I am so sorry, it isn't you - it is the situation." I explained to him how trapped I felt at home. That is when I explained to him what the other guy had said. I thought it would make him understand how I was so confused. I guess I was kind of blaming the other guy for turning my head. In hindsight I should have kept my mouth shut. C seemed good about it. He just said "are you sure?". That was that. Things went back to normal. I decided to look for a job hoping that would give me the outlet I needed. I did check with C that he was feeling ok and things and he assured me he was feeling happier. Now I while I had been feeling so low I was quite harsh on C. I felt like all my friends had more money than us and their own houses and stuff and we didn't. I gave him grief about it which was unfair. I think I was just wholly frustrated at being stuck at home unable to better our situation. I did apologise for this although I admit I was out of order on that score.

 

I got a job working nights in a supermarket. It seemed like a great thing. A bit of extra money for us - an outlet for me. It fitted in nicely with our family set up. I have always been a night owl anyway and it was only 3 nights a week. For a few months it was good. I really enjoyed it made some new friends. Things were better. As time wore on though I was finding the nights harder. I felt like I was permenently exhausted. C was looking after the kids on Sundays and if he was off in the week while I was sleeping. He got used to being in charge and sometimes said he felt like he could "have his own head" with the kids when I was sleeping but that when I was there I overruled him. It made me feel like he preferred it when I was not there. He said he felt like a second class citezen. I was quite grouchy and grumpy due to the nightshifts. I worked Tues, Weds and Sat nights 11pm - 7am.

 

(will update the rest later - got a complaint to register at work!)

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We had both stopped playing the online game by this point as we recognised it was addictive and not good for us. He got into fitness instead. He had piled on lots of weight as I was losing it. The roles reversed in this regard. I found myself gaining weight while working nights. My bodyclock was all over the place and I started eating badly again. I was trying to sleep at night some nights and through the day other times as I worked on and off through the week. It started to take a toll. I seemed to be always saying I was either tired or ill. I got loads of bugs and cold. I did rely on C more. I seemed to always be catching up on rest or trying to get better. He often remarked "You are always tired, you are always ill". I remember saying "Well I am not doing it on purpose." I felt unsupported but I guess he did too. He managed to lose 6 stone but in that time I had gained pretty much all the weight I had lost. I felt unattractive and working nights meant I was not in the marital bed often. Our sex life dwindled alot. We were still quite loving towards each other though - hugging and kissing a lot. We always held hands in public - when not holding the kids hands and things like that.

By September 2012 my job was making me feel so exhausted and ill I knew I had to get out. I found another job but it was full time. It was actually working for the same company as C. C encouraged me to go for it. I said I was concerned about the childcare. We said we would try to work it out. I applied for and got the job. The childcare was a constant headache for me but C didn't seem bothered at all. I asked him if he could try to get more set hours at work (he shifts changed every week). He said he would try but didn't seem concerned at all. I felt like he wasn't bothered and I was worried. I felt like I had given up my career to care for our kids for 5 years and then nearly killed myself doing nights stacking supermarket shelves for a further 2 years so I could fit around him and yet he couldn't even adapt a little bit.

 

(will update more at home - finishing work now)

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We were working out the child are week by week and C was dropping the kids at breakfast club everyday before school as he cycled to work and I caught the bus which took longer. He kept saying he couldn't wait for Christmas cos he had some holiday from work and he had felt under so much pressure from all angles. That's the history really. I want to explain about my family and his (sorry if this is long winded it helps me to get it all out - don't feel the need to address it all)

 

Ok so his family!

 

Basically he has his mum and sister on one side. On the other side is his dad, stepmom and other sister (well his sisters are half sisters) he grew up with his mum and sister as his parents split when he was small - he lost contact with his dad at a young age but found him again when he was 21. They don't really have a father/ son relationship - they live 200 miles apart but his dad rings every couple of weeks or so and always send stuff for birthdays etc. he says he doesn't feel like his sister on that side is really a proper sister as again they never had that relationship.

 

Now onto his mum an sister! Where to start???? Ok so he was 8 when his sister K was born. His mum had split with his dad and was on her second marriage which also ended. (She has since had a 3rd marriage - also ended).

 

He remembers being forced to call K's dad "dad" and hating it. When I met him he was showing me photos of his childhood and I there were loads of him and his mum with his dad cut out. I remember at the time thinking how awful that was.

 

Lets talk about his mum - S.

 

Ok so I think she is deep down a nice person but very troubled. I actually have a reasonable relationship with her mainly because I have been incredibly patient and supportive of her over the years. Her relationship with C is complex to say the least. Growing up he had to flit between being her son and her confidant (if that is the right word). When she was in a relationship it was "you are my son respect your mother etc) when she was single it was "I need advice, support me, you are responsible for looking after K as well she is your sister ". When I met him I was struck by how much she expected of him. We were 19 and 18 but yet we had to stay in and babysit so she could go out. She guilt tripped him all the time by saying that she had spent many years at home looking after him and that she was entitled to a life too. She even went on holidays with friends and made him take time off work to care for his sister . I told him it was wrong. That K was not his daughter and not his responsibility - of course he should help when he could but he shouldn't be made to feel it was his duty. His mum was always threatening to throw him out if he didn't dance to her tune. He would spent one night a week at my house and I would spend one night a week at his. His mum moaned that he was always over at mine! One day I was there and his mum got angry with him and told him he should move out (for the umpteenth time) . I said "you heard your mum C lets go" we got together some bags I his and walked to the bus stop - called my dad an he picked us up - C moved into the spare room at my parents and stayed there for 3 years until we married.

After a week or so living at my parents house C got a call from some bloke asking him to move the rest of his stuff. It was his mum's new boyfriend and this was the first time he had ever spoken to C. Nice hey?

 

His mum is incredibly needy and 100% pessimistic. Everything is always the worst thing ever. She needs constant reassurance over and over again. She is like a leech. She never ever says sorry and expects people to jump through hoops for her. Example her friend let her down on a holiday by cancelling last minute. A second friend said she would try to get a visa and go. The visa did not come through in time so she could not go. S said that's the end of the friendship with the second friend because she feels let down. I pointed out that it isn't really her fault the visa didn't come through and S replied "it doesn't matter I feel like she has let me down - people don't get a second chance with me"

Well just recently regarding the same holiday S wanted C to help her make an insurance claim. C told her to ring up for a form and he would help her to complete it. Well the next thing he gets is a message saying "goodbye C" I asked her what was wrong and she launched into a big thing about how she feels used an we don't care about her and C wouldn't help her - this is a regular occurrence. She regularly phones both me and C with tales of woe and expects us to listen for hours on end - just recently I started being a little bit firmer with her and she did not like it. I remember years ago she said something to me that stuck with me - C and I were not long married an I was talking to S just in normal conversation. She said to me "always remember you will never know C as well as I know him . I am his mother and no one can ever be closer to a son than their mother " I told C about it at the time and he laughed and said "she doesn't know me at all. Sarah you know me better than anyone. You are the only person I can be totally myself with"

 

So that's his mum - an emotional train wreck . As I say though I do get on ok with her. We have had days out together and trips to the cinema even without C there.

 

Am on my phone so will post this and then write about his sister in another post.

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Ok so his sister K. Ok well she is now 24 - when I met C she was 10.

 

When he moved to my parents she was 12. By the time she was 14 she had had 2 abortions. 2 different men both way older than her. She basically went off the rails when she hit her teens. C feels a great deal of guilt for 'deserting ' her when he came to live with me. So she got pregnant for the 3rd time aged 16 with her boyfriend same age. She had the baby and got a flat - got into drugs and involved with dealers. Split with her boyfriend got together with a drug user. Got evicted from the flat as there were bullet holes in the wall and the word "slag" painted accross the living room wall. She moved away with the new bloke. Fast forward a year or two and she is pregnant again but the baby did not survive. A year or so later she had another child. Planning to get married trying to turn things around. Next thing her bloke is so say hitting her all the time and they are splitting . That takes us up to today. And guess who S came to with all her tales of woe regarding this ? Me and C . S and C stopped speaking to K for a year during this time but I maintained a contact to make sure K was ok and I was the one who actually got C back on good terms with K.

 

So yes that constitutes his family. That is all he has - the grand total support network.

 

It is strange actually because after he left me and he was still in out house he said to me something. At one time his mum moved them in with one of her boyfriends and C actually really liked and respected him. Then it went wrong and his mum moved them out but the guy said to C that he could stay with him if he wanted to. C was about 17 at this time. So just over a month ago when C did not know what to do about us he said he felt like he was at a cross roads in his life . He said "I wonder what would have happened if I had not moved back to mums and had stayed at Jim's instead. I wonder how my life would have been." He also said that I was the only reason he had not cut his mum from his life years ago (as I have always been peacemaker between them)

 

Am home now so will write more when kids in bed

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So my family is quite different. My parents are in their 70s - they celebrate their 51st wedding anniversary on Friday. They had 5 children then a 10 year gap then me. So yeah I am 33 and my brothers and sisters are (43, 45, 47, 49 and 50). My parents had been through a rocky few years before I was born hence the big age gap - my dad was an alcoholic for a time but managed to stop and quit drinking and then my mum got pregnant with me. My mum had lots if issues in the pregnancy and the doctors recommended a termination. They told my parents there was close to zero chance that both mother and child would survive. My parents, being devout Catholics refused to terminate me. We both survived and were completely healthy. My parents named me Sarah after my dad's mother who died when he was 12. So basically I was on a massive pedestal from the moment I was born. I was hailed as the miracle that happened to our family - the saviour of the family if you like . They all doted on me my whole life - even now they do to a certain extent. My family is amazing - I love them so much we are so close knit and support each other. I have 13 neices and nephews as well - 7 of whom are adults now - my eldest niece is 29. In my current situation they have all been on the phone offering support and help - I am very fortunate.

 

So yes our families are poles apart. My brothers and sisters relationships are as follows:

 

My eldest sister got divorced as she suffered manic depression brought about by my dad's alcoholism as she was the eldest and therefore affected the most I guess .

 

My next sister has been happily married for 31 years.

 

My elder brother has been in a relationship for 10 years and is marrying in May (he never married before of had children)

 

My other brother is single and I have never known him to have a partner although he says he would love children .

 

My other sister was happily married for 10 years but her husband sadly died of a brain tumour.

 

So a real mixture really. I don't always feel comparable to them though because I had a different upbringing as the family dynamic was so different by the time I was born.

 

I have a good relationship with all my family. We do argue but it is nothing like C's family . The most difficult is my dad as he is complex - he never got over the death of his mother when he was 12. I think of all my siblings I have the best relationship with him as I was not around when he was drinking and he feels like I was his second chance. My relationship with my mum is absolutely amazing . I can't even begin to say how much she means to me. She is my best friend. We are very similar and share a taste in books and tv and things. I just love her so much and she is 73 now and the mere thought of her dying makes me cry.

 

My family took C under their wing. Especially as he lived at my parents' house - they treated him like a son. He felt like he gained the family he never had when he met me. He always said how great my family was and how much better than his family they were. He actually got on really well with my dad and always defended him when he was being a pain. He always said "I like your dad Sarah he is alright - don't be hard on him he really loves you "

 

After Chris left me it is only the third time I have ever seen my dad cry. The first time was when he was talking about his mother and the second time was when he went to the hospital with my sister on Christmas Day just before her husband died.

 

Before he left me C had borrowed £150 from my dad. I wasn't sure what he was going to do about paying it back as he had not seen my dad since he left me. Well he and his mum went around to my parents house and have my dad the money. My dad touched C's face and said "we hope you are ok - we do love you you know" and apparently C threw his arms around my dad.

 

Well since this whole thing C's mum has told me she is fine with me an stuff. She says she is completely devastated by it and called me for an hour crying on my birthday. She did give me a birthday card saying "to a special daughter in law" so I don't know what to make of her really.

 

Last tues C stayed at our house overnight with me here too. When I got in from work he seemed very agitated and on edge. I acted friendly and normal as if all was fine but he wasn't handling it well at all. I said I was going down to the slimming club and as I left he said "this isn't really working " when I got home he was already in bed (spare room). When I got home the following day he said in future he will just have the kids at his mums - I said that was ok and I could tell he was uncomfortable the night before. I asked him again for his key back and he had this pained expression on his face. He made all these excuses why not to give it eventually saying he wants to bring he kids back to the house after school on the weds before I am home from work. I let it drop again but I really don't know what to do about the key thing.

 

I haven't heard from him since that weds - he is coming over at 7am tomorrow morn (tues) so I can go to work. I sent him a text about a bill he may have received saying not to worry and that I am taking care of it - he did not respond.

 

I saw him today at work - we work on different floors. I was leaving at 5 pm and going down the stairs and actually typing all this out on my phone and not paying attention and then I heard a voice saying "alright?" I looked up and he was coming the other way. I was a bit taken aback and just said "oh alright ?" And as we were blocking the stairs we both just went on our way.

 

So God knows what will happen next .

 

Natter you are right about his reactions though . I have noticed that when I am cool calm and collected he notches the negativity and anxiety up - he can't seem to handle it. When I am down or not too friendly he is more chatty and friendly. I just don't know which way to be around him for he best outcome?

 

I want to believe he will come back to me and in my heart I do believe that but I am also scared of feeling like that. There is part of me that does not want to allow him to walk over me. Basically my heart wants to sort things out with him and give home all the time support and love he needs to get his head together so we can begin to sort this out and rebuild. My head says don't be stupid - he has told you it is over - start calling the shots here.

 

I don't know which one to listen to.

 

If you read all of that then kudos to you!!!! There is so much more I could say but I will leave it there for now - I would appreciate your take on it all when you get time natter because you have been so helpful already - thanks. I really do appreciate your input - and anyone else's

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So I just wanted to update about our interaction this morning.

 

He came over to be with the kids while I go to work. He is having them at his mum's tonight and bringing them home tomorrow evening .

 

He came in smiling . I said good morning and so did he. I offered him a cup of tea which he accepted. I said I was tired - he said the radio played a lively song which woke him up. He told me a bit about work and that he was thinking of looking for something else . Out daughter told him I replaced the mattress on the bed. (It was beyond broken) I said it was so lumpy and you don't realise how bad it is until you get a new one. He said he is sleeping on a fold out bed and even that is better then the old mattress.

 

I told him put daughter doesn't want me to wash her pyjamas as they are so fluffy and she is worried they will get ruined. He replied "well if they somehow 'accidentally' make it into the wash" we shared a smile about that.

 

I said I had to go work and he asked me another question about my job - so I stayed an talked about it for another minute or two and then left. I said see you tomorrow and he said the same.

 

I am noticing a pattern in a way. When he is coming to be with the kids he is friendly and actually seems to want to keep me chatting. When it is time for me to be with the kids and he "has" to leave he is the opposite .

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Sarah.....

 

So sorry....

I've been thru it, 2007 my wife of 20 years packed up the kids and left.....saying she needed time and we needed to work on things, which she never did....

 

Someone from Ena back in 2007 told me "When married people with children split up, it is like the two sides of a coin....neither side sees the other, but they must remain together"......

 

When she split, I simply went LC, only communicating about the kids and financial things, nothing about us.

Thanks to finding Ena within a month of her departure, I found wisdom and folks here that already survived hell, so I didn't make the mistakes many make with calling, pleading, texting, being needy, etc.

 

I never let her see me cry, the shower was great for that!....

I never let her see me down....

I never yelled or was angry or accusatory to her, even when she was to me....

I never said anything bad about her to the kids or our old friends....

 

Its so important to let your kids have peace, and not be adversarial.

We were blessed with being able to part with dignity and grace after a 25 year relationship,

to be able to discuss things with a friendly manner, in a time when ones heart and life is being just ravaged.

 

Kids are amazingly resilient, they suffer less than you think IF you are able to be civil, anything else will damage them.

They also see and pick up on more than we realize, and often the split gives them peace that was not there when the parents were disintegrating.

 

Peace to you, focus on the kids and yourself, it is hell right now, but will get better......really...

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