Am I doomed to be a maid for life?

Okay, so my husband is awesome in so many ways... but taking care of a living space is not one of them.

When we got married, he was going to school full-time and working two jobs. I was working only 30 hours a week (not by choice... I had a tough time finding my two part time jobs after graduating). He was great to be willing to work so much when I was struggling to find jobs, and I still really appreciate that he did that. So, during that time, the apartment was understandably 100% my responsibility. I cleaned it almost every day, kept up on the laundry, and made dinner most days. My husband went on a special, strict diet and I cooked all of his food for him. And I was honestly really happy to do it. A little part of me was worried that because our married life started with me manning the house that it would continue regardless of the workload...

So that was tested when I got into a masters' program. Now I'm going to school full time and working two part time jobs (one of which is stressful and time consuming). He's currently just going to school. The workload hasn't changed at all. I mean, I clean less often, and I don't cook anymore... but whatever happens around the house happens because of me. It's starting to get incredibly frustrating. When I talk to him about it, he either says he helps more than I think he does (I guess sometimes bringing your dishes from the living room into the kitchen and putting them on the counter counts as cleaning?) or that all I need to do is ask him. So when I have asked him to do something specific, he sometimes does it or sometimes waits so long that I just go ahead and do it.

It seems like I hear a lot of horror stories (I probably notice them because they resonate with me) about couples where they both work full time, but the woman still does all the housework and all the cooking. I know that's how it is with my in-laws. So I'm really worried that this will be me forever... I don't particularly like cooking and cleaning, and it really builds resentment in my life when I feel like I don't get any help with it.

I can relate to your situation. I was working a full time job and was a full time student, my ex had a part time job, and still refused to lift a finger.

A couple questions before I can give you advice, though ...

Did you discuss these issues before you were married? Did you reach an agreement? And also, is there anything else in your relationship that has changed?

The first thing you have to do is tell him you are unhappy. It's not a marriage if you can't be honest.

The next thing you need to do is get a big poster board and write out all the things that have to be done, and their frequency - and I mean ALL things, all the way down to replacing the empty toilet paper or taking out the empty water jug in the fridge.

List them all out, and draw a table next to it. Show the frequency (every day, every week, every 2 weeks, etc.), and leave blanks for him and you to put your initials on what you are willing to take on. Tell him you love him, but this is the 2010s, and you will NOT be his maid and mother for the rest of his life - then show him the chart and say "this is everything that goes on in this house; I need you to step up and show me what you will become responsible for; once you take them on, I will no longer make sure they're taken care of, so choose carefully."

Don't let him get away with saying he can't. State what you are willing to do, if he does this, and what you are not willing to do. In other words, talk and negotiate.

Are there certain chores he hates that you would be willing to do and vice versa? Like I loath dishes so it's L job to do them - even just loading them in the dishwasher. I can't iron so L will have to iron (haha).

fyi, about 20 years into my marriage, a stress therapist I was sent to, told me to ask my DH to pick just ONE item that he would be responsible for, because I felt it was all on my shoulders. I asked, he refused. Said he couldn't ever know when he'd be available. So I sat on it and fumed a few days. And then I decided that the ONE thing I could let go of that would affect me the least was his clothes. I stopped doing his clothes (AFTER he refused to help me). When he eventually ran out of clothes, he came after me, yelling, 'WTH is the matter with you? why aren't you doing the laundry?"

I just looked at him calmly and said 'Remember when you said you couldn't help me with any chores? Since you were unavailable, I had to pick something to take off of my list of things to do, since I'm doing everything, and I realized that it didn't matter to me if your clothes were clean. So I gave up that, to take something off my plate.'

The next day, he started fixing things around the house that he'd been avoiding. And then I started washing his clothes again.

You TEACH people how to treat you.

TEACH them to respect you by commanding respect.

We discussed it in general before we got married... but we said it would be based on current work-load, basically-- always subject to change. Whenever I bring it up, he gets hurt and says he's super busy. And he IS super busy, but so am I and I still find time for it. Currently (for the past month and a half) we have an unemployed roommate who is supposed to be cleaning because we are giving her super cheap rent, but all she does is do the dishes 1-2 times a week. As of right now, I have given up doing chores except cleaning my room, doing our laundry, and generally keeping my stuff somewhat ordered. I just don't want it to be like this forever. Nagging women are considered to be so awful, but I'm starting to understand why some women nag...

OG, taking our house before he got married into account, I'm pretty sure he hates all chores. It's a good idea in theory, but he acts like the problem is all in my head... sometimes I start to wonder if it is.

When you ask him to do something and he takes ages doing it - stay patient and wait for him to do it. If you keep on doing it for him then he won't do his bit cos he will become lazy.

It's def hard if he doesn't like any chores. My ex was like that - I practically had to man handle him to the dish washer myself (and all he had to do was put htem IN it) and most of the time I did it myself because I had asked 5 different times for him to do it. Honestly it drove me nuts and I truly resented my ex. He has to be willing to change or step up before any change will occur unfortunately.

btw, the point of the chart is that both of you can choose those things you 'don't mind' the most, so you aren't stuck doing something you hate. Stuff is more likely to be taken care of that way.

Does some of it stem from him being happy with a lower threshold of "clean" than you? I.e. he's just happy with more mess?

Bringing up relevant feelings and relationship issues is never nagging.

Is this a deal breaker for you? If not, you're just going to have to deal with it. If so, you've got a lot of soul searching to do.

^^ Because I think that makes things more complicated. People should do their fair share.

But how much work needs to be done is an issue that people differ on depending on how they feel about what's "clean" and what's not clean and how often things need to be cleaned and how they need to be cleaned etc. This latter thing - I feel it's not fair for one person to impose their standards on another. So if standards differ there needs to be a middle ground.

Not that this is the solution for you since you say he doesn't do any chores at all ever - but could it be part of the problem?

Do you two go out to eat, or have a budget for entertaining? What if, instead of a dinner out, you hire someone to clean for a few hours and the two of you take a hike or have a picnic? You might be able to let things go, knowing a pro will come make it shine, give the roommate the job of doing the dishes and picking up clutter beforehand.

When you ask him to do something and he takes ages doing it - stay patient and wait for him to do it. If you keep on doing it for him then he won't do his bit cos he will become lazy.

My husband and I got snappy with each other about housework tonight and he said basically this same thing to me bc I felt like it was falling on me.

I mean, this man seriously thought our house didn't produce dust bc he never sees any. He thought we struck it rich to have a house that is incapable of producing dust. Really, it's that his wife cleans far more often than he does.

I hate to nag but feel like if I don't nag or do it myself, it'll never get done. And I've tested this theory. We both work full time and that's it and we agreed before that to split and take turns and generally just clean up after ourselves. Mostly it works but we find snags when I know he just cleaned the kitchen but instead of taking the food and storing it in the fridge, he just puts the whole pot in there. So he doesn't know it's "wrong" by my standards unless I tell him I prefer he put the food in containers. To me it's a common sense thing but whatever.

So just point out that you prefer he puts his dishes in the dishwasher or sink instead of the counter. Or put his shoes in the closet instead of on the floor. Things like that. Baby steps.

Does some of it stem from him being happy with a lower threshold of "clean" than you? I.e. he's just happy with more mess?

I think that's some of it. But... I also don't have a super high "clean" threshold. I am very particular about a lot of things (exercise, my work, school, etc.), but cleaning has never been one of them. I typically do dishes several times a week and clean the house (pick up, sweep, vacuum, clean the bathroom, etc.) twice a week. When he was living on his own, there'd be multiple paper plates with dried up ketchup all over them in his living room.

It just feels like whenever I bring it up, he brushes it off. And now we hardly ever see each other, so it's so hard to argue when it's the only hour in the week we get to hang out. I thought this issue would be solved for a little bit when the supposedly-cleaning roommate moved in, but she doesn't actually clean so that was a no-go. I'm just getting more and more frustrated by this stupid situation, and I don't know how to get him to take me seriously. We've talked about it before.

When he was living on his own, there'd be multiple paper plates with dried up ketchup all over them in his living room.

 

There you go, see.. it seems like it's not so much that he's "using" you .. it's just that he lives different (i.e. in filth So for him.. cleaning probably doesn't feel like something he does for the both of you as a couple - but only because you ask.. cause.. if he lived on his own it seems he'd be content to just not do anything.

I think this makes it hard because it's not really the simple issue of "he's not showing me respect".. it's that he has to change his "mode-of-living" (I don't know if there's a word for how one feels about how clean a house hould be) to suit you better and I think whenever we have to change something that's quite ingrained.. it's very difficult.

I don't mean to excuse him or anything.. I just think it's one of those things where I sympathise with both the person who wants to clean in a "normal" fashion and have their partner take on their fair share - as well as the person who just doesn't feel the need to have the place anywhere near as clean.. and so only ever does anything for the other person and not for themselves.

I think I have finally found the solution to this: I stopped equating tidiness/cleanliness with respect and decided that I would dial down my own standards for cleanliness. I also realized that it’s not a lack of cleanliness that bothers me, it’s clutter. These guys will NOT do dishes. So, I bought a dishwasher and had them haul it into the truck and into the house while I watched. It was a bit of sweet revenge for hours spent toiling over mountains of dishes. We are all happier for it because at one point, I actually said that I was going to pack up ALL of the extra dishes, and we would each be left with one set to take care of. One fork, one bowl, one glass, etc...

When it comes to Alex forgetting or simply not feeling the need to do something, I stop and think about everything else he’s done and is doing–– being the main breadwinner so I can go to school, making dinner, giving me a back-rub when he senses I need it. That said, he has gotten better with age, and I told him in no uncertain terms that I am not going to be the only one changing diapers/ cleaning a whole big family house while working full-time. I told him that if he wants a happy marriage and a happy life with me, he can’t forget about the “little things” like vacuuming and cleaning out the cat box.

Your room-mate needs to step up (as does mine!) and you and your husband need to be on the same page. I know it’s a really awkward situation to be in.

It seems like I hear a lot of horror stories (I probably notice them because they resonate with me) about couples where they both work full time, but the woman still does all the housework and all the cooking. I know that's how it is with my in-laws. So I'm really worried that this will be me forever... I don't particularly like cooking and cleaning, and it really builds resentment in my life when I feel like I don't get any help with it.

 

Unfortunately they're not horror stories, but sociological fact. It has been proven through a huge number of sociological studies that even when both members of a marriage or relationship work the SAME number of full-time hours, the woman still ends up doing more of the household chores and childrearing. It's called the second shift - google it if you want to see the actual studies.

 

Of course, this doesn't resonate with all couples. And your husband does need to know that you are unhappy. I think turnera gives good advice - what would happen if you suddenly stopped doing chores that affected him? Would he come to realise how much more you do and how unfair it is?

Husbands everywhere are going to put a hit out on me for saying this but......

Men are just as responsible for household chores and ought to man up and help out.

There. I said it.

I am around a lot of men at work. Most of my coworkers are males. I have heard them stand around and joke about how little they do around the house. About how they pretend they can't do things or intentionally blunder them so that the wife/GF never asks them to help out again.

They are absolutely astounded that I know my way around cleaning and cooking.

Most of them were raised by fathers......and mothers.....that considered housework to be women's work. Not me. My mother raised me to be self sufficient; to never depend on anyone else, as long as I was in good health, to provide me with a home.

So at an early age, I was cleaning, scrubbing toilets, cooking, laundry, sewing, etc. Yardwork? Oh yeah, got plenty of that growing up too.

So now, I am an equal partner with my wife in that respect. Like last night. She cooked dinner and I chopped veggies. She cleared the table, I scrubbed the cast iron. While she was finishing loading the dishwaser, I was folding towels.

Partners in crime. The jobs took half as long, we talked while we did them, and we took care of business. Our son had his share of chores as well.

That is one thing I will pass along to my son: He is not "above" anything. If his mother can load the dishwasher, so can he. And I have told him to learn to do things on your own......so that you can be self sufficent.

He sees me iron, he seems my wife bring clothing to me to hem or move buttons, and he sees me do these things with a willing spirit.

The payoff? And this is the part that most of you women already know so I am preaching to the choir on this.

Last night when I was feeling amorous and frisky, my wife was not too tired from doing all of the housework. There was a sweet reward for being the way I am......suculent and sultry.

So the other men have to ask themselves......who's the joke on now?

Regards.

Husbands everywhere are going to put a hit out on me for saying this but......

 

Men are just as responsible for household chores and ought to man up and help out.

 

There. I said it.

Nope. I got your back on that one.

I agree. Men need to start stepping up and accepting that the house is their responsibility as well and not just the woman's. You both work the same amount of hours and pull a fair share of the load. It's a partnership. You work together through these things. So there's no excuses. Just have to make time to do it. Too many excuses are being made and the workload gets tossed to the woman. Don't accept that.

You see a lot of this happen in relationships where the woman is pulling 80 and the guy is only pushing 20. See what I mean, pulling and pushing. So it's an 80/20 relationship and what winds up happening is the woman starts to shut down. Then you start seeing threads like, "My wife isn't intimate with me" or "Haven't had _____ in three months, help!!" And sometimes that's because the man isn't meeting her needs so why should the woman meet his?

I do need to stop equating doing housework with respecting and loving me... I know he loves me, and he shows me that in other ways. But then, a part of me thinks that if my happiness and mental health was important to him, he'd take an hour or two out of his week and seriously help out around the house. He knows how much a disgusting apartment bothers me. He knows how frustrated I've been with our roommate (and with him!) because I'm the only one that does stuff around the house. He knows I'm struggling with huge anxiety, he knows a (somewhat) clean apartment is what enables me to relax, he knows our relationship is hurting right now because of various other factors... but he still doesn't do anything. I really do not like cooking and I'd be happy to just eat Top Ramen and cheese quesidillas. But when he went on a strict diet, I was more than happy to step up and do what needed to be done to help him out. I just don't get it.

Then you start seeing threads like, "My wife isn't intimate with me" or "Haven't had _____ in three months, help!!" And sometimes that's because the man isn't meeting her needs so why should the woman meet his?

Exactly my point.

Resentment is the biggest of "bedroom" blocks. I'll refrain from using the word that rhymes.

My wife has resented me about other aspects of our relationship in the past. But never about housework. She is the first one to tell other women that I cook, clean, sew, and small child care.

But there are things that I didn't do in the past that she resented......and I saw the results of that when the bedroom door shut. It took me a while to figure that out. But I am glad I did.

I am not particualarly fond of cleaning.....but know how and work through it. Cooking? I love to cook and have become pretty good at it over the years. And my wife is a harsh food critic so I must be doing something right. lol

I do like the post about the woman who chose something to eliminate and it was her husband's laundry. That will motivate a man to get himself in check....especially when his socks and underwear run out.

It's not rocket science anyway. Put the stuff in the machine, add the correct amount of soap......separate colors......select the correct drying cycle.....iron it. Shoot, you can do all that while watching t.v.

I had to hand wash some uniforms one week when the power was out. Now THAT is work.

I've decided to make a chore chart. It seems really juvenile, and it bothers me that I have to do this considering I'm living with two adults, but if they won't pull their share, they need to have some accountability. I shouldn't have to live in a crap-hole just because they are used to having their moms pick up after them.

apartment.

Wait. Apartment?

So there is no yardwork involved? I assumed he was taking care of the grass, weeds, leaves and such.

If that is not the case, then yeah, he ought to pick up a broom and get busy.

Just so you know, I work 58 hours a week and my wife does not work at all. She is a full time student.

I still cook and clean. He can too.

Wait. Apartment?

 

So there is no yardwork involved? I assumed he was taking care of the grass, weeds, leaves and such.

 

If that is not the case, then yeah, he ought to pick up a broom and get busy.

 

Just so you know, I work 58 hours a week and my wife does not work at all. She is a full time student.

 

I still cook and clean. He can too.

Yes, if we lived in a house and he took care of the yard work, then I would be fine with taking care of the house more. That would be a splitting of domestic chores, and it'd be cool. When we do move to a house, I'm more than happy to help out with yard work-- I did plenty of it as a kid. Anyway, chore chart is up. I've given roommate the vast majority (because, as I said, we have given her a very small rent payment in exchange for housework). I have my husband doing a couple of chores a week as well... and if he can't handle making the bed once a week and organizing his stuff (papers, book, etc.) once a week, I will know that the situation needs to be dealt with immediately.