(Bratty) Children in libraries, a vent.

Right now I'm at the library reading a Non-profit marking guide because the museum I volunteer at has put me in charge of their social networking (facebook, twitter etc). I have to do a lot of reading on this because aside from my own facebook page, I have never done this before. I also have to get work done for a class that is starting next week.

Let me also say that I nanny three days a week. My niece is 16 months old and is already testing her boundaries.

If your children are being loud in the library and you tell them to lower their voice more then three times, please remove your children from the library. It is disruptive to other people who are trying to get work done. Children cannot always be reasoned with or controlled. I get that, it does not give your family the right to effect me as I am trying to do work.

When I was a kid my mother would remove me and all my siblings from a place, no questioned asked, if we were being to loud. We were then banned from going with her for the next several trips out. Now, this would not work for ever family, but my point is she always took the position that her children did not have the right to negatively effect other people in public places.

Being a parent is difficult I see my sister and her partner go through it everyday. But once you CHOOSE to have child you always take on ALL of the responsibility that comes with that. This includes controlling them in public place and removing them when needed. I should not have to deal with hearing "MommyMommyMommy Pleeeeeeeaaaaassssse!!!!!!" Sixty times before I can get back to work.

I like kids, don't get my wrong but I have a strong loathing for parents who seem to think their children have some sort of free pass to be obnoxious in public places. I recently read about a guy who banned children under 6 from his restaurant, I don't agree with that but he said something that I did agree with, this is not verbatim but it was something like, "Your child is the center of YOUR universe but they are not the center of THE universe."

Thank you for letting me vent.

It annoys me too, but then again I'm also thankful that these parents actually bother bringing their children to a library to begn with. They could do what so many other parents do and just stick them in front of a television set.

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This woman is facing jail time for having a disruptive kid in the library - way to go America!!

Shuttlefish, I agree that the library staff probably over-reacted but once she was asked to leave and refused they had every right to call the police to escort her out. What else could they do? I'm pretty sure the library staff doesn't have the right to physically grab her and remove her. I would buy her story a lot more if she had just left, or at least cooperated with the police when they arrived instead of yelling and swearing at them.

I suspect she is not telling the full story. Many parents (from what I have seen) don't always see/hear their children in the same way an objective observer does.

I just started taking my 2 year old to the library for story time which is held in a separate, large room. I asked the other parents there who had been there before if we should leave if my child wouldn't sit the whole time for story time. They said no -it was totally fine for him to walk around,etc (which is what he does but not in a disruptive way- he rarely makes sounds as he explores and if he does they're not loud. That is how much I care about his behavior in a public place. I was wary about letting him play with puzzles/read in the main library before story time started (we get there 5-10 minutes early) but my rule is that as long as he is no louder than the other children there then he is behaving appropriately (and the last three times the children were not loud). If I saw a non-library employee trying to get work done nearby I would be even more vigilant about his behavior. One thing I wanted to add- are you there during a time when there are children's activities going on at the library? Perhaps the standard changes during that time of day. Honestly I was a little surprised that the children were allowed to talk at all in the main library above a whisper that is.

The library I go to has an area for children. I often take my niece here so she can play in that area and meet other children. I am on a different level of the build in a corner with two study stables. I'm not sure what this mother was doing but she certainly was not think about her her children where effecting others.

Batya, you describe exactly how I personally feel parents should handle their children in public.

The library I go to has an area for children. I often take my niece here so she can play in that area and meet other children. I am on a different level of the build in a corner with two study stables. I'm not sure what this mother was doing but she certainly was not think about her her children where effecting others.

 

Batya, you describe exactly how I personally feel parents should handle their children in public.

Thanks for letting me know - perhaps that's why I haven't seen any adults w/o kids around that area. Now I feel more comfortable about him not whispering. I think it's rude to let children be loud in an area that's supposed to be quiet.

Maybe she was looking for books for herself?

Maybe she was looking for books for herself?

Its possible, very likely, it still doesn't give her family the right to disrupt me with their noise level.

Its possible, very likely, it still doesn't give her family the right to disrupt me with their noise level.

Did I say it did?

I love children to death, but I agree.

Ugh, I HATE it when kids are loud in the library. A library is a place for work and study, not children screaming.

The kids' section needs to come with a fence/play pen door in front of it so people can deposit their children there and the kids can't run away from the section and ruin everyone else's time with their screaming.

I'm with you MoonTiger. I'm in freaking college and we still get kids in our library, being loud and dumb. I'm like "This isn't even a public library! People are here doing work! Don't bring them here." It's not like we have children's books/section anyway, because it's COLLEGE. Ugh.

Our library is very child friendly, no need to whisper at all. The staff actively encourage children to feel a part of the learning experience.

Fudgie, I can't imagine children being in the library that was on my campus when I was still in school. That has got to be frustrating. What really makes me mad isn't even the kids, they are just doing what they do being kids. Its the parents who fail to manage them that drive me up a wall.

Anya, it nice that there is a library out there that caters to children in that way. If that is how your library brands itself more power to it. The majority of libraries (and the expectation of most of the public) are place a work and study where noise is to be kept at a very low level. I don't know one person who doesn't know libraries are intended to be quiet place, but I have seem any parents who think the rules don't apply to their child. That's what makes me angry.

Moontiger,

My college is in a poor, low-class town that is virtually overrun by children who come from parents who start having them (on purpose) in high school. So by the time they are my age, they have like 3-4. I'm not kidding. The parents and kids get bored (or whatever) and just come up to our library, despite having their own public library that students don't go to, and just "hang out" in there. You're right, it's the parents that irk me the most. I'd rather they didn't bring them at all but if you are going to, the kids need to be as silent as possible, just like everyone else.

A lot of these parents need to learn how to be responsible and if their kid is poorly behaved, DON'T bring them to certain places where people need quiet to work.

Here the thing, as a parent you should probably know your child pretty well. If you know they are capable of behaving then bring them along and browse through the books all you want. If you know your child has a difficult time behaving in public plan ahead, call to put the book you are looking for on hold, ask someone who works there to take you to the right section you need so you can be in and out as fast as possible.

Kids are of course unpredictable to a certain extent, as a parent you need to plan ahead bring things to distract them (that don't make noise). If you kids miss behaving give them a warning, if they continue then you need to remove them.

I often here parents complain that they should have to be banished from place just because they have kids. Here the thing, no one made you have kids and once you did you took on all responsibility for that little human being. That includes not letting running around wild or acting like a brat. If more parents would effectively manage their children none of this would be an issues. Yet so many parents today want to be their kids friend or (my personal favorite) when parents say they are to tired to deal with their child behavior. Should have thought about that before you got pregnant.

I know I am coming down hard on parents but I am just fed up with this. Nice restaurants, libraries, movies, even stage theater, I see people bring children that are to young and to ill-behaved to be in those kinds of places. And I have seen some great kids who can be quiet and behave themselves, but the number if ill-behaved is starting to rise. It makes me half agree with banning kids from certain places.

Well, it has a private study floor/areas and I agree respect should be shown to those studying.

But the main area is family friendly, with all generations welcome and to state that libraries as a whole are places where no-one talks is outdated, in my personal experience.

I completely agree with you. If parents had well-behaved kids, I wouldn't complain but some people these days don't parent their kids and then EVERYONE suffers and it stinks.

I think places should ban "LOUD" kids. That means, have rules that if your kid is starting to act out and you can't control them, then you leave. That's just one of the responsibilities of being a parent. If you are a good parent and can manage your child, then you can go pretty much anywhere!

I do still think we have a need for some of these quiet libraries. I don't think it's oudated. People use them to work and study in. People use libraries for research and for classes. There is a definite need to have a public, quiet place for study and research. Not all places need to be "child-friendly".

Ugh, I HATE it when kids are loud in the library. A library is a place for work and study, not children screaming.

 

The kids' section needs to come with a fence/play pen door in front of it so people can deposit their children there and the kids can't run away from the section and ruin everyone else's time with their screaming.

 

I'm with you MoonTiger. I'm in freaking college and we still get kids in our library, being loud and dumb. I'm like "This isn't even a public library! People are here doing work! Don't bring them here." It's not like we have children's books/section anyway, because it's COLLEGE. Ugh.

My college library has a childrens' section, i'm actually sitting right by it as I type this However, we get very few children, usually the parents will grab a book to take home with them, they dont actually bring the kids.

I only take my kids to the library during story time but even though, i make sure they are quiet as we go through the main part of the library. But I agree, there are MANY parents who don't raise their kids, they are just kind of there. One of the story times we went to, a mom and daughter were there. and the daughter literally ran around the room with a balloon THE ENTIRE TIME making noise, and the mom made NO ATTEMPT to stop her. Thats disruptive even to kids' story time, let alone to the rest of the library. Eventually one of the other moms asked her to either control her daughter or to leave because she was keeping EVERYONE from being able to concentrate on what they were doing. The mom got very mad and huffed our with her daughter.

our public library has a main section, a kids section, and then a reference section. The kids section is alwase a bit louder, the main section is calm, and the reference section has closed doors and is silent. All you hear is ruffling pages every so often. Thats where you're supposed to go if you want to do work and such things. The main section is for general reading and things that dont need complete silence.

Yeah I am normally in the "reference" section of my library, not general area. Sadly, we don't have doors to keep out noise and such.

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This woman is facing jail time for having a disruptive kid in the library - way to go America!!

No. This woman is facing a jury trial because she cannot manage her impulse control. The only person who overreacted was the lady. The issue with the disruptive child could have easily been resolved but instead, the woman escalated it. The police arrived, she escalated it again. She was escorted from the building...AND RETURNED only to escalate things again. Now she is "terrified of jail time", what?? Why could she not think 15 minutes into the future when all this was going down? Instead, screaming and profanity seemed to be the best option for her.

And of course, she was doing a job application at the time. Hmmmm. And her son laughed while being drilled at flash cards. Hmmm again. There is so many things that do not make sense. What it is clear is that the mother was online and not supervising her child. I am sure it was not a solitary "giggle" that drew the attention of the security guard, but rather the continued disruptions of an unattended and bored child.

As for the OP's rant about public libraries, we need to realize that pubic libraries are undergoing a huge transformation. They are no longer the quiet hallways of learning but they are turning into community centers with a variety of "non-traditional" activities. Many of the people at the library are niche users only: they come for the free internet, to pick up forms or applications, check out free entertainment like DVDs or CDs, or simply to have an open and cool area as an escape from an overcrowded and loud apartment. The hard truth is that many many library users are simply not at the library to study or learn.

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This is true.

Shame. If this trend is true, I will do my studying at home, not the library. Thank goodness I have a good desk.

I actually prefer libraries that encourage people to socialize - the "SHH! You're in a library!" thing reminds me too much of being scolded in high school. My library is very modern, people bring their children, come for classes, use the computers/DVD machines, actually talk to one another and it's lovely. So, I suppose I can't entirely sympathize as a child wouldn't bother me.

Plus, some parents have things they just need to get done. Sure, they could remove their child every time they get loud at a library, grocery store, beauty salon, etc, but noisy kids or not maybe the parent needs to run a particular errand and has nobody else to watch the child. Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it.

You could always take out a book and go find a quiet spot elsewhere if it really gets intolerable.

I actually prefer libraries that encourage people to socialize - the "SHH! You're in a library!" thing reminds me too much of being scolded in high school. My library is very modern, people bring their children, come for classes, use the computers/DVD machines, actually talk to one another and it's lovely. So, I suppose I can't entirely sympathize as a child wouldn't bother me.

 

Plus, some parents have things they just need to get done. Sure, they could remove their child every time they get loud at a library, grocery store, beauty salon, etc, but noisy kids or not maybe the parent needs to run a particular errand and has nobody else to watch the child. Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it.

 

You could always take out a book and go find a quiet spot elsewhere if it really gets intolerable.

I agree parents don't always have others to watch the kids while they run errands - my mom raised 3 of us and worked 2 jobs and ran a house - but there is a difference in that and parents just letting their kids run a muck. I was in a store not too long ago and there were 2 kids running up and down the aisle screaming at the top of their lungs. What was mom doing? Browsing the shirt aisle. That is unacceptable to me. A mom desperatly trying to shop while her kids are screaming and she's TRYING to keep them quiet, I have patience for - not a parent who is oblivious to their children causing a ruckos.