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Do women hold all the cards?


givinggirl

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This has been bugging me, so I thought I'd get some opinions. This weekend, a shy guy, whom I previously pursued, but it didn't go anywhere, told me that I'm the girl, so I hold all the cards and am the one in control. He was referring to pursuing and dating in the beginning (at least that's how I took it). Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

 

I don't feel like I am ever the one holding all the cards. Am I wrong?

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I don't know that you could objectively answer this, it's all in perspective. See if you can find the video where Ray Romano says, "For once I was the one wearing the panties."

 

I've had that perspective in life before, thought that I was just subject to the woman's whims. As I got older, I realized the error. No one holds ALL the cards. However, for negotiating purposes, the one who wants it more is in a weaker position.

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As much as people like to dress it up, it's an exchange of power. Men buy dinners and movies for the women in order to get access to your ladyparts.

 

Men don't buy me anything and they still expect access to my ladyparts, lol.

 

OP, I disagree wholeheartedly. This a huge misconception men have. If women truly had all the cards, there wouldn't be so many lonely and single women out there.

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No I don't agree. I think in a healthy relationship both people have to put in effort. In my experience dating the men preferred to be the ones to do the asking out in the beginning even though I wouldn't have minded and I put in effort in other ways. The person you referred to is I think the person you posted about previously so I can understand why you're so focused on whatever he says that has to do with dating and focused on analyzing why. I would react differently - I would ignore his comments about dating and relationships unless he had asked me out on a date and we were going on dates - and then I would ask him follow up questions to learn more about why he feels that way about male-female dynamics. But if he wasn't asking me out or showing interest when I suggested a plan I wouldn't waste my time trying to figure out what he means or what he's referring to because that focus would distract me from my goal of meeting someone who was interested enough in me to want to plan and go on a date with me.

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I think your shy guy was feeling sorry for himself. It probably feels to him, since he finds the approach and pursuit so difficult, that all a woman has to do is stand back and say yes or no to any advances. Being a woman in that position would obviously give you the power. But, that assumes every guy you want to pursue you walks up and talks to you and asks you out. The truth is, it's not particularly easy for either gender.

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Just to clarify...this wasn't in reference to a relationship, but to the beginning stages of dating. I told him I didn't agree with him at all. If I held all the cards and had all the control, things would be sooo different.

 

Yes, you would get bored really fast. ;-)

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It's not a gender thing -- the person least invested in a particular outcome holds all the cards (in relation to "power"). Now, if this guy was being less subtle and was simply saying it's on the woman to determine where every relationship goes in its initial stages, that's simply a shy guy's lame way of passing the buck.

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Don't agree with that statement, but I do believe that the power rests in both set of hands. Meaning that it's up to BOTH the woman and the man to make the effort. It's a bit of a double standard when it comes to that, but I feel that in order to keep things on an even plain, that's the only way...

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As much as people like to dress it up, it's an exchange of power. Men buy dinners and movies for the women in order to get access to your ladyparts.

 

Why you old romantic, you. Is this your opening line?

 

 

 

Just to clarify...this wasn't in reference to a relationship, but to the beginning stages of dating

 

Agreed-ish.

 

Yes, I guess men generally do the running in the first stages, some-times with tepid encouragement.

 

But whilst Men can pursue Women with ardent passion - and it's called romance. Women chasing Men down with roses, booking dinner dates and promising to bear their first child - well that's called a court order waiting to happen.

Traditional dating gives Men and women equal power - just in different areas.

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It's not a gender thing -- the person least invested in a particular outcome holds all the cards (in relation to "power"). Now, if this guy was being less subtle and was simply saying it's on the woman to determine where every relationship goes in its initial stages, that's simply a shy guy's lame way of passing the buck.

 

I agree with you about the person least invested holds all the cards. As for this guy, he was being pretty bold last weekend with his conversation topics (actually the past couple of times I've seen him) and not getting all bashful & nervous like he usually does. I got the feeling he was saying it to make a point to me, but I completely missed his point. After he said this, he started asking me something about the last guy I pursued, but our conversation was interrupted and wasn't continued.

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I would start with the simplest explanation -he was simply chatting and referenced a time-worn cliche/stereotype in commenting about dating. That's nice that he's not as bashful and nervous as usual but I think you're reading into what he says far too much. Why not simply decide that if he wants you to know that he's interested in dating you, he will ask you out on a date or respond with enthusiasm to your either asking him out or suggesting activities you like to do that he might like to do as well?

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I agree with the parties which say it's the least interested party which holds the cards - not necessarily the woman. The advantage which most women hold is that they may not be so anxious to jump in bed, and therefore become less vulnerable at the beginning. I notice that my friends which jump into bed very fast and become emotionally needy, usually end up as the weaker person in the relationship. It's really how you play the dance which will determine where you stand.

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I would start with the simplest explanation -he was simply chatting and referenced a time-worn cliche/stereotype in commenting about dating. That's nice that he's not as bashful and nervous as usual but I think you're reading into what he says far too much. Why not simply decide that if he wants you to know that he's interested in dating you, he will ask you out on a date or respond with enthusiasm to your either asking him out or suggesting activities you like to do that he might like to do as well?

 

I think you are reading far too much into my post by making comments pertaining to things I posted over 1 year ago. This has nothing to do with his interest or lack thereof in dating me. This has to do with a comment he made that has been on my mind. Have I asked if you think he's interested? Have I asked for advice on dating him? No, I have not.

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Yes actually you have since you've asked what he could have meant by that with respect to you, and his comment was about dating. That is how I interpreted what you wrote. If you're honest with yourself you'll admit to yourself that his comment is on your mind because you are interested in dating him and want to know how or whether his comment is relevant to interest in dating you. Otherwise you wouldn't have posted about a time-worn cliche that people say from time to time -it was the timing and context that triggered your interest in his use of the cliche. IMHO. And I do think past posts about the same person - in the recent past -add context and relevance to what you are posting now. If you're not interested in dating him or not interested in knowing whether he wants to date you I apologize for misinterpreting this and other posts but I honestly do not think I did.

 

For example, you wrote "As for this guy, he was being pretty bold last weekend with his conversation topics (actually the past couple of times I've seen him) and not getting all bashful & nervous like he usually does." - so that tells me you're not just referring to some isolated comment but to what it means in the context of this man you previously pursued and it seems you are now wondering if he might be interested in dating you if you pursue him again.

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Yes, I guess men generally do the running in the first stages, some-times with tepid encouragement.

 

But whilst Men can pursue Women with ardent passion - and it's called romance. Women chasing Men down with roses, booking dinner dates and promising to bear their first child - well that's called a court order waiting to happen.

Traditional dating gives Men and women equal power - just in different areas.

 

It's romance when the woman is getting pursued by a guy that she is attracted to. When a woman gets pursued by an unattractive guy, he gets slapped with a restraining order. On the other hand, I don't know of any non-celebrity guys who get pursued by women. I think one of the guys who posted here is correct. Women hold most of the cards. An average-looking woman I know got asked out by a dozen different guys after her boyfriend broke up with her. I also remember this cute Asian woman talk about how so many guys ask her out that she has to cancel dates with them. If you go to any bar or nightclub, you will see women shutting down guys on a regularl basis. In my entire life, I have only seen two women get rejected by some guy that they didn't know. Women are concerned about finding the right guy. Men are just looking for any woman who has any interest in him.

 

Ask yourself the question. Who has a easier time in dating? A shy man or a shy woman.

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There are a lot of valid points, but like NAZ said, it's all perspective. It's human nature to take pride in our hardships and we always want to tell everyone we have it harder. I get that. And that is my disclaimer before everyone jumps on me.

 

I don't know that there is a clear answer.

 

Having said that, galaxy also makes a good point.

 

Women decide who they want to go out with. They do the accepting and rejecting most of the time. Men are the pursuers. If a woman is of "average" looks to a knockout she is being approached a LOT by men, and she decides which ones she thinks she would like to date. Now certainly it can be argued that the man has to deem her attractive enough to pursue in the first place, but I get where he's coming from.

 

I've seen some women on the forums saying, "If a man is interested enough, then he will approach." Now if a man were to say that about women, I'd go ahead and wish him well in his decision to be alone for the rest of his life. The attractive ones especially don't approach men because they get approached multiple times a day and have the ability to choose from the stream of men that try to chat them up. They know why men are talking to them.

 

That's just the way it is. For men, you just have to accept your role as a man. There's no getting around it, though when I was younger I tried.

 

If you try to be a "game changer," women will just shrug and go out with someone who pursued them.

 

Again, all I've ever known is being a man, and I know my perspective is skewed, so please nobody be angry with me,

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It all depends on attractiveness in my opinion. A shy girl will generally have an easier time getting a date because if shes decent looking and puts herself out there then there will likely be guys asking her out, and she can get dates without changing her shyness or taking that initial emotional risk. The shy guy's options are to either get over his shyness and take some risks or he can stay single and lonely until he changes. Now if the girl or guy makes no attempt at all to be social then there is little hope for either.

 

 

Below average looking girls will have a tougher time due to not being approached or pursued as much if at all, while the below average guy will have trouble getting a date even if he is confident in himself, unless he specifically targets below average looking girls. Below average looking guys will also have more trouble gathering the needed level of confidence in themselves because there is realistically less to be confident about.

 

I know everyone is different, and there are exceptions to everything I said above, but from my experience that is a quick overview of how I see the situation. Almost anyone, no matter their looks, can get dates but its a much tougher road for some people than others, but that's kind of how most things in life works.

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From my experience, it isn't like I could really choose which girl to go out with.... while I have my core set of standards and have to be somewhat attracted to her, I can only take whatever comes my way.

 

For example, I went out on a few dates with the only girl that ever showed interest/attraction to me. She wasn't exactly the type that I was into (average-looking but too much like a little girl, had nothing in common and zero motivation/direction in life), but I gave her a chance. Who knows if another girl will agree to go out past the first date with me again? I've pursued and asked out some girls over the years but they weren't interested.

 

I've always had a tough time when it comes to even getting one date. I am an average-looking guy, but found that most decent single women (which I am attracted to) don't want to get to know me better or are already in relationships.

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Women don't hold all the cards, but they hold the most important one--relative scarcity.

 

Find a reasonably-attractive woman, and you'll find a ton of guys competing to be with her. She has to pick and choose. Find a reasonably-attractive man, and you won't find a ton of girls competing to be with him. Potential boyfriend candidates are a dime a dozen; hot women are pursued by men up and down the socioeconomic strata. If a woman wants the average guy, she's competing with...no one in particular. If a guy wants an attractive woman, he's competing with married doctors, college sweethearts, high-ranking co-workers, elite players and PUAs, etc. Finding a hot woman that isn't locked down or bombarded by superior options is virtually impossible.

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Just to clarify...this wasn't in reference to a relationship, but to the beginning stages of dating. I told him I didn't agree with him at all. If I held all the cards and had all the control, things would be sooo different.

 

in the beginning stages of dating yes women have the most 'power' as men are still expected to approach most (90 % or maybe more) of the time or nothing happens

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