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The Shy Story- Calling all Shy and/or "Nice" Guys!


vacation

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I've been reading the forum for a few days and I just see a reoccuring theme regarding all shy guys and guys who claim they are nice:

 

1. You are lazy and blame others when things don't go your way.

2. You do not make an effort to change and adapt.

3. You don't to put in the time and effort to improve yourself (thus being lazy).

 

It's a vicious cycle isn't it?

 

I'm pretty sure many of you have some of the same issues I dealt with many years ago when I felt the same way.

 

Some of these internal limiting beliefs I had included:

 

  • I'm unattractive
  • Too skinny/fat/ugly
  • Girl's Don't Understand me
  • Women like jerks only
  • I'm not rich/have a fancy car
  • I'm clean cut, nice, and smart but women still won't give me a chance

 

So thinking this, like many of you on this forum I would just sit at home, on my computer, and do nothing all day except for going on facebook and look at how some of the guys there were living the life I want. When I would talk to my friends about it they would only tell me: " Just be yourself!" or " The right girl will come along" Well clearly that wasn't working for me. I didn't even know what that meant. Was I just suppose to sit there with my weary attitude and wait for that girl to give me a chance so I could finally be happy again and be forever greatful to this girl and treat her like a queen for saving me from my dungeon of negativity? She would definitely be the one....

 

Well let me hit you with reality and save you a couple years of waiting like I did. That is not going to happen. NO GIRL is going come and save you from your misery. Don't even think about her asking you out. If you're lucky, she might ask you for the time hoping you could lead the conversation somewhere. But other then that you're just sh*t out of luck! Think about it from a women's perspective, they're only 5'5 about 120lbs whereas you're probably in the 5'10 to 6'3 range and anywhere from 150-250lbs and they're suppose to not be scared of you and ask you if you want to go out on a date....Let me put it in perspective. When you're at the gym would you ever go to the biggest, buffest man pumping the heavy iron and ask him for tips on working out or tell him he looks jacked?

 

Many of you who say you are shy and nice possess 1 thing in common: That you're actually scared! Shy and Nice are just the words you use to cover up those insecurities. But truth is you're scared to the bone. Scared of being rejected. Scared of the possibility of any of your limiting beliefs (like the ones I mentioned above) coming true. Scared of looking like fool. So scared that you would rather hide behind the false pretense of those limiting beliefs and live a life of regret and misery rather than face your beliefs and conquer them one by one and find the truth for yourself.

 

You want to be happy and think that the only way that can be achieved is if you have a female companion to look after your emotional needs, but, how she be happy with you if you're not happy with yourself? How can you look after her emotional needs if you can't look after your own? You want women to understand you but how can she understand you and the rationale behind your actions if you can't justify them yourself? Who is being selfish now? Who is the true jerk?

 

Take Control. Take Action

How many random women have you approached in the last day/month/year

  • telling them that you think they are pretty ?
  • you like their outfit (or anything about what they're wearing) ?
  • You enjoy their company and outlook on life?
  • For directions?!?
  • Have just started a conversation with?

 

To get results you have to fail and try new things. You have to understand that getting rejected is part of the game. You have no clue of your true potential if you don't try. Heck, look around on the forums and read all the threads from women who are complaining that they are constantly giving guy's "the eye" and yet the guy still won't approach them. Behind every player there's a long list of rejections.

 

The Journey

Start trying and start approaching women. Start by just learning to look her in the eyes and smile when you see a pretty girl walk by. 93% of communication is non-verbal which means that your body language is more important than what you're saying. You could be talking about Tim Hortons and donuts but if your body language, tonality, and pitch is correct the girl you're talking to will be soaking wet. Start to enjoy the things in life and wake up each and every day like it were on purpose. Start taking pleasures in the rejections because some of the best stories I have with friends are some embarrassing moments I've had with women. Stop taking life so seriously and learn to love to make mistakes because if it weren't for mistakes we would never learn.

 

Let the world be your playground and treat it like recess. Once you start doing that and enjoying life and the mistakes you make, with people, women, and society you will become more socially attuned and the women will come flocking. You will exude that confidence that women are attracted to.

 

It's really important that you measure your success for simply attempting rather than getting her number.

 

Just Some Motivation

 

My first couple approaches

 

I know when I started this journey and made my first cold approach I was nervous but I will never forget the adrenaline pumping through my veins, my heart beating so loudly that I swear people accross the street could hear and so nervous and sweaty I thought I was going to pass out. But I remembered the promise I made to myself to be my better self and conquer my beliefs and after that first approach I shattered the belief. Being as nervous as I was I approached an attractive blond who had the perfect fashion sense, the slight natural tan, the brightest blue eyes that complimented her beach body with all the right curves. We got on the bus and I just remember saying "Hi my name is ....." and we just went into a conversation. I thought she was way out of my league but by the end of the conversation she asked for my number! That was the very first approach I did and thinking to myself, "I didn't shower today, I look like a bum, so how the hell did I do this?" My reality just completely flipped inside out and I was addicted.

 

Another time, I approached a group of girls and singled the one I wanted and after stuttering and finding the courage to ask her for her number I finally did it. She looked me dead in the eye for a solid 3 seconds which really felt like 3 minutes and finally gave it to me. As I was leaving her friend said "aww he was soo sweet and adorable" because back then like many of you I was shy and nice. My voice and body language oozed innocence which is how I was able to talk to women without triggering their "player" shield. Because the reality is, women do want nice guys. They want nice guy's who are compassionate and able to show their emotions and express themselves.

 

I've had many rejections and some hilarious stories too that are not appropriate for this board. Each approach has taught me something new. Sometimes I only realized it weeks after but each rejection, success, and attempt has contributed to my overall character.

 

Through my journey of trying to learn about women I actually learned more about myself than anything else. This is a journey only you can take and no therapist can help you with. The self discovery path is a tough one with many ups and downs but the main thing is to persevere. Times will get emotional, difficult, and even unbearable at times. All you have to do is learn not to take things personally and move on because there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

If you don't like your situation then change it! Know that there are many others like you including myself and no matter what your situation is, I am there to help you. I and many others on this board can pass on our advice form our experiences and give you the insight to help you improve yourself.

 

If you have any questions, just ask away

 

Your friend,

 

Vacation

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I've come to the same conclusion, you have to give life a try and face rejection in order to disprove the irrational beliefs of insecurity that you have about yourself. For me, this is extremely difficult to do because my issues stem from childhood and I have to fight those thoughts every day. I'm utterly terrified of my own shadow - so to speak. The only way to overcome is to take active, thoughtful action and fight back.

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I came to this realization after the end of my LDR. I was extremely comfortable with her but I know that if we were to meet on the street it would have been completely different.

 

I've been pushing myself to bite the bullet and simply go for it. Completely agree with this post.

 

One way I trick myself into doing it is simply telling myself I'll likely never meet her again so even if I make a fool of myself... and besides, it's about what you think. Nobody else!

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so basically you say, "don't be shy", for some people i'm afraid it ain't that simple

 

You missed the point. He's saying push yourself! If you never push yourself off that first deadly stressed out mountain of a hill (to talk to a woman and possibly get rejected), you'll never learn and never evolve.

 

I came to this conclusion this summer. That I had to push myself out of this comfort zone.

 

Baby steps.

 

I now walk the streets with my head high, not always looking at my feet or a few feet ahead of me.

 

Baby steps.

 

I can now look at women in the eyes, even if we're just crossing each other on the sidewalk. I've also grown accustomed to women looking at me, and turning their gaze in the opposite way (cause I probably don't interest them, or they don't find me attractive...and truth be told, I'm not really, so it happens 80% of the time).

 

Baby steps.

 

I'm still struggling with when she notices me looking at her, and smiling. First, if she doesn't look away and keep looking at me...I'm surprised and a bit shocked. By the time I get over and my brain tells me to smile, we've crossed paths. I'm learning my timing.

 

I'm also fighting that "quick, look away, she doesn't like to be oogled" emotion...still 50/50 chance that I look away. For the record, I don't oogle, that's all in my mind.

 

Baby steps.

 

The next one that I'll try to get over is my over thinking. To get over my idea that when you flirt, it's because you want to mate for life. So. Much. Pressure. I'm actaully making progress in this. Oddly, because one day I was angry as all hell (work related). I was livid and boiling inside. On my bus (I'm blessed with many pretty women I can talk to...when I'm ready), I kept looking at the women. Then the women on the street, waiting at the bus stops. They would look at me, and I just didn't care.

 

I never felt that before.

 

No anxiety, no heavy burden, no replaying a motto in my head "don't look away, don't look away". I just didn't give a rat's ass and more often than naught, I'd stay stone faced.

 

But I felt the power of not overthinking things. And I definitely want to get to that state. Not necessarily "not caring" but rather reducing the importance that I'm putting on the moment and just go with it.

 

Baby steps.

 

It's been 4 months and more of constant pushing my boundries...and while I'm not there yet. I am getting to a frame of mind where I'm not thinking that I'll never be able to talk to women (oddly, I can talk to women...just not the ones that I fancy).

 

Good advice!!!!

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so basically you say, "don't be shy", for some people i'm afraid it ain't that simple

 

As mentioned before I'm saying take chances. Getting over the fears I mentioned above takes effort and commitment - you're right, it's not an easy path but it's a necessary one.

 

I mentioned in my original post:

 

So scared that you would rather hide behind the false pretense of those limiting beliefs and live a life of regret and misery rather than face your beliefs and conquer them one by one and find the truth for yourself.

 

It's more painful to live a life of regret then going out and taking some chances. Too many guys on this forum complaining about being shy and nice and being bitter about it but I bet not one of them has made a cold approach or taken the necessary risks to change their situation.

 

Einstein described insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results." So try something new. Change. Adapt. Be the best you.

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First I want to say, congrats on attempting to conquer your fears. I think it's great. Keep up the good work!

 

I can now look at women in the eyes, even if we're just crossing each other on the sidewalk. I've also grown accustomed to women looking at me, and turning their gaze in the opposite way (cause I probably don't interest them, or they don't find me attractive...and truth be told, I'm not really, so it happens 80% of the time).

 

Negative. They're looking at you because they see you're attractive. They turn their gaze because they don't want to come off as creepy not because you don't interest them. Remember, women are much more shy than we are. Great observation!

 

I'm still struggling with when she notices me looking at her, and smiling. First, if she doesn't look away and keep looking at me...I'm surprised and a bit shocked. By the time I get over and my brain tells me to smile, we've crossed paths. I'm learning my timing.

 

Crossing paths is part of it. I've tried many types of approaches and here's what works and doesn't.

 

Don't approach women directly head on face to face. To them it'll come off as playerish and they'll think you planned it and do it to every girl. It's also startling and will put them on edge.

 

However, Once you've smiled at her and she's somewhat smiled at you walk past her a few more steps. This puts the idea in her head that she's lost you. Then turn around and walk a bit faster and lightly put your hand on her shoulder to turn her around. Smile at her and look her in the eye and just say something like

 

"Hey, I look like a complete idiot for doing this but I just saw you from a distance and I you seem like [a caring person/ are really pretty/ have a great style/ or my personal favourite...there was just something about you] that I had to come say hi or I knew I'd be kicking myself all week. I'm [say name]" *stick hand out for handshake.

 

To women this shows vulnerability, balls, and a genuine side of men women don't see often. The hotter the female the better it works and just go out and start talking to her.

 

The response I generally get is "OMG really? you think I'm pretty?!?!" or "that's so sweet" and they are more than happy to give their facebook, number, or whatever you ask for. Women melt. Finish by asking them for coffee sometime.

 

 

I'm also fighting that "quick, look away, she doesn't like to be oogled" emotion...still 50/50 chance that I look away. For the record, I don't oogle, that's all in my mind.

 

I'm not sure what you mean but it's important to maintain your frame and keep your eye contact with her. If your eye contact breaks then she will lose her sexual tension and the state of arousal. It won't come off as genuine but rather playerish. It's all body language. Good job, keep practicing

 

 

The next one that I'll try to get over is my over thinking. To get over my idea that when you flirt, it's because you want to mate for life. So. Much. Pressure. I'm actaully making progress in this. Oddly, because one day I was angry as all hell (work related). I was livid and boiling inside. On my bus (I'm blessed with many pretty women I can talk to...when I'm ready), I kept looking at the women. Then the women on the street, waiting at the bus stops. They would look at me, and I just didn't care.

 

When you talk to her look to find something about her that makes you attractive. That has to be something she says about her personality. To get in bed with her you gotta be friends first so find that common thing you guys share. The OC Transpo has pretty girls all the time

 

It's been 4 months and more of constant pushing my boundries...and while I'm not there yet. I am getting to a frame of mind where I'm not thinking that I'll never be able to talk to women (oddly, I can talk to women...just not the ones that I fancy).

 

Good advice!!!!

 

It's really important to talk to women you fancy. Because when you see a beautiful woman that is out of your league that is when you're truly pushing your boundaries. It's like going to the gym and using 5lb dumbells to do curls or constantly pushing yourself by using 40lb dumbells. Only try to pick up girls you are attracted to but make friends with all women no matter their colour, age, fat, skinny, ugly etc...because everybody has friends and their friends could be attractive.

 

Keep pushing your boundaries my friend. Work hard and Play hard. Keep us all posted on your progress. It will be motivation for others.

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Great post, Vacation. I wish all shy guys would take this advice. (Yes, I'm the shy girl that is waiting for a nice, cute shy guy to make a move).

 

"Hey, I look like a complete idiot for doing this but I just saw you from a distance and there was just something about you that I had to come say hi or I knew I'd be kicking myself all week. I'm [say name]" *stick hand out for handshake.

 

 

I actually love that - better than most cheesy pick up lines. I'd be like 'aww' if a guy said that to me. Even if he wasn't my type I'd be really flattered and think it was really sweet. Much better than some sleazy pick up lines.

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You missed the point. He's saying push yourself! If you never push yourself off that first deadly stressed out mountain of a hill (to talk to a woman and possibly get rejected), you'll never learn and never evolve.

 

I came to this conclusion this summer. That I had to push myself out of this comfort zone.

 

 

well i agree with the fact you have to push yourself and try things, but when you're shy and you try and ask a girl out and it doesn't work it will probably make you even more shy and reluctant, besides some shy men can't even get there

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well i agree with the fact you have to push yourself and try things, but when you're shy and you try and ask a girl out and it doesn't work it will probably make you even more shy and reluctant, besides some shy men can't even get there

 

Everything is done with small steps and it depends at what point in your life you're at. Like I said, when I first started out, I had troubles even talking to other guys who I had just met so girls was just out of the question. Today it's a different story

 

If you are serious about this then first start by making a list like I did above. Write down all the limiting beliefs and blockages you have - anything YOU THINK is preventing you from being successful - everything that is holding you back. Then share it here, but if you REALLY don't feel comfortable sharing it here just pm me. Then I will try to give you some pointers, advice, and past experience to help you push yourself. Key thing is though, the work is going to be coming from you.

 

Step 1. Write down all Limiting Beliefs and Blockages

Step 2. Post it in this thread

Step 3. I will try to post some ways to get over those blockages

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well i agree with the fact you have to push yourself and try things, but when you're shy and you try and ask a girl out and it doesn't work it will probably make you even more shy and reluctant, besides some shy men can't even get there

 

Also another thing. If you cold approach women and it doesn't work it's not the end of the world. Belieeeve me. You realize that the second you get rejected. You probably think of rejection being defined as her telling you to go "F**K yourself" but it's not that. Women are nice people, rejection looks something like this "I'm sorry, I have a bf" or "I'm really busy". Also, she's not rejecting you but infact rejecting your opener. She doesn't know enough about you to reject you.

 

Women are very subtle and awesome creatures. Once you realize for yourself just how different they really are from your perception this starts to get easier.

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I guess you mean well but what you say its not for me. If i really like someone, i'm really into someone i will make a move in my own way off course if i feel like it. Luckily for me i don't fall for someone quickly. Also i reject the notion that it has to be the man who has to approach all the time, it should be a 50/50 thing!

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I guess you mean well but what you say its not for me.

Why not?

What do ya have to lose?

 

You've already gotten rejections, right?

How will some more hurt?

Wouldn't you like to think one might say yes this next time?

If i really like someone, i'm really into someone i will make a move in my own way off course if i feel like it.

Luckily for me i don't fall for someone quickly.

You don't have to "fall" for someone quickly. If she looks like a nice girl, one you could see going out with, by all means approach her. Don't let anything stop ya'.

Do so before some other guy gets the idea.

Also i reject the notion that it has to be the man who has to approach all the time, it should be a 50/50 thing!

"Should be's" don't count.

 

Like it or not, it is the man who has to do most of the approaching, though some women will do that. I just never encountered any in my life.

 

Same in many marriages. The woman often expects the man to initiate all the sex.... He's to be the aggressor.

Like men are "wired" to be visually stimulated (and women more into emotions and touch), methinks women expect the man to make all the moves, though there are some exceptions of course.

 

If you don't tell her you're interested in her (by approaching her), how will she know?

She's not a mindreader.

 

well i agree with the fact you have to push yourself and try things, but when you're shy and you try and ask a girl out and it doesn't work it will probably make you even more shy and reluctant, besides some shy men can't even get there

Yes, shy guys like you and I once was (in my 20s) have to "speak up" for ourselves and take action.

No one else will do it.

It's our lives. It's up to us.

 

Do we want to stay single or remain where we are.... alone?

 

 

Take a look at the suggestions posted in this thread. Perhaps some of them will help you find ways to approach women.

Help for those who can't get dates in their late 20s, 30s and 40s

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Cold Approaches

 

You see it in movies where the guy just looks at the girl in one scene and then the next scene they are in bed gazing at each other, wondering how they ever lived their separate lives without each other. Well, just does that happen? 2 words - Cold Approaches.

 

A "Cold Approach" is a term used to describe approaching somebody without ever meeting them before. For you salesmen it's equivalent to a cold call.

 

A lot of guys ask me where do I meet girls because I'm sick and tired of going to bars and clubs and those aren't the type of girls I'm interested in anyways?

 

Well then you have to get good at cold approaches. It may seem daunting but what if I told you picking up women during the day was a lot easier than a bar/club would you believe me?

 

Infact with Cold Approaches you can expect:

  • Meet hotter women
  • More friendlier women
  • Easy to pick up
  • Returned Calls (no more flaking or too drunk to remember you)
  • To build powerful connection with her

 

Before I delve right into it I will explain a little bit about cold approaches and why/how it works.

 

Why it Works

See in a bar environment women know they are the prize and certainly act like it. Ask any girl how many times she gets hit on when she goes to a bar and she'll tell you some high figures. Now ask her how many times she gets hit on during the day and she'll look at you surprised! Infact women get hit on so many times in a bar that they develop that b*tchy attitude (which is a defense mechanism) and just start telling guys off if they don't meet their superficial requirements. Can you really blame them though? Think about it, if you were constantly being attacked by bums asking you for money every 2 minutes for 4-5 hours constantly wouldn't you get a little peeved? Well that's just it, approaching women in bars requires a different gameplan and mindset then approaching women during the day. I will talk about approaching women during the day where you don't have to deal with a b*tch shield and she won't be so drunk that even if you get her number she won't remember you the next morning. During the day you don't have to worry about ANY of that nonsense nor do you have to compete with any of the other guys.

 

Face it, if you could, wouldn't you love to give women that movie like smooth pick up and just sweep them off their feet? Well, cold approaching is the way to go. See women sort of know just how hard it is for a man to approach them so they are understanding when one goes out and actually gives it a shot. They know all about the courage, confidence, and risk it takes to put yourself out there so they are much more appreciative and respond positively. Majority of women I know find it adorable and build an instant connection with a guy. It's so bold and for majority of pretty women it has never happened to them before so they are just impressed!

 

Types of Cold Approaches

 

DIRECT

When you approach a girl and directly outline your intentions. Eg. "I look like a complete idiot for saying this but I just saw you and there's just something about you I find really attractive and I just had to come over here and say hi otherwise I knew I'd be kicking myself all week. Hi, my name is ...." *stick hand out

 

Circumstances - Approach her from behind and lightly put your hand on her shoulder to make her turn around. When she does, say the magic words. Make sure to maintain adequate eye contact and and open body language. Looking around while talking to her is going to creep her out and she'll think you're playing a prank on her.

 

Now she knows why you're here and that you find her very attractive. This is a powerful technique and majority of women respond positively to it. Once you state your intentions it is crucial that you transition into another topic to build rapport. Eg. "You looked like you were walking with conviction, where is this important place?" and use that to probe more information about her and get to know her. Once you've built that rapport asking her for coffee (instantly now) or sometime in the future is no problem and a great way to get her number.

 

Pros

  • Appears harmless
  • Genuine
  • Builds Sexual tension
  • Absolutely 0% chance of friendzone
  • A Great Compliment

 

Cons

  • Mostly meant for mature women (23+)
  • Requires Practice (lots of adrenaline)

 

INDIRECT

When you first approach a woman without revealing your feelings for her. Eg: "Hey, I need to get your opinion on something...." get her answer and then start transitioning to different topics. Meanwhile, rewarding her for revealing more about her personality. Reward with touch and your approval. When she says something you like give her a high five and also reiterate those qualities. With Indirect openers you are setting the tone for a friendship and hover along that fine line because showing too much interest can make the whole interaction look like a front (not genuine).

 

Circumstances Its always better to keep a body language that you're sort of leaving or on your way out. Ie. Looking over your shoulder until you fully capture her attention.

 

Pros

  • You can find out about her through conversation
  • Harmless
  • Works on ALL girls, just requires more practice with some
  • Improves conversation skills through practice

 

Cons

  • Chance of Friendzone
  • Have to be able to make conversation
  • Harder to build a connection
  • She may wonder your motive
  • Requires a lot of practice

 

The whole idea behind both these openers is that they give you the opportunity to display your character. Just firing off interview style questions is not going to help you. Just be relaxed and look for certain attributes about her personality that you like and think are compatible. Talk about how you admire those qualities in her. If she says she has to go help a friend move then give her a high five for being a good, caring friend. Try to listen to some of the things she's saying and build a connection with that. If you're like me and like athletic girls, then if she mentions gym, exercise, walk, jog or any sort of physical activity then I'll use that to talk about how good it is and how it makes you feel after a good workout. Likewise, if you like reading then relate to the feeling of thrill, or adventure you get from reading a fiction novel. Men, start learning to talk about how things make you feel and likewise ask questions trying to find out how she felt in certain situations.

 

Now you don't have to go to a Bar or nightclub to meet women. You can meet them anywhere including the grocery store, mall, or even on the sidewalk! The more spontaneous the better

 

 

Questions?

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Hey... You seriously do NOT have to worry about being unattractive. You're a perfectly good looking guy. Many people have asymmetrical features (I for instance have ears that don't match). So don't worry about creating a negative physical impression! Of course not every girl is going to find you hot, but this is mostly because everyone has different tastes and you might not match.

 

And I'll clue you into something: A lot of girls out there find personality and character to be MUCH more important than physical appearance. I know that many people would probably consider me much better looking than my boyfriend, but I am delighted to be with him because of who he is inside... that's the man I fell for and love. And also, the more I love him, the better he looks in my eyes... the bit about rose coloured glasses is definitely true.

 

So, I think it is much more important to focus on building yourself up and feeling better about yourself than it is to get 'oh, you look good' feedback (though the two can go hand in hand) because your looks are only a small part of the equation. Focus on the things you DO like about yourself! One thing that works, as corny as it may sound, is standing in front of a mirror and naming 10 things you like about yourself every day... and try not to come up with the same 10 every day. And think for a moment: If anyone ELSE fed you a fraction of the negativity you feed yourself, would you really want to be friends with them? I thought not. So, stop worrying about your eyes, and focus on your heart. I'm sure you have a lot to offer.

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This is a great post. Just broke-up from a LTR, not ready to rebound into another one, but reading this original post is inspiring! In the past I've always been "shy" -- but, yes you are right, shy really does mean SCARED!!! Once I am back in the game (and I don't end up reconciling) I will heed your advice. Of course, come to think of it, I think I will just practice now, anyway, just to challenge and inspire myself.

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"Should be's" don't count.

 

Like it or not, it is the man who has to do most of the approaching, though some women will do that. I just never encountered any in my life.

 

Same in many marriages. The woman often expects the man to initiate all the sex.... He's to be the aggressor.

[/b]

 

 

well i don't want to be in a relationship like that, like i said it should be around 50/50 or i just can't be bothered anymore

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well i don't want to be in a relationship like that, like i said it should be around 50/50 or i just can't be bothered anymore

It's not a debate, NMF, or anything you can change.

 

Yes, the dynamics inside a relationship should be a partnership (one shouldn't have to do all the work), and ideally, asking women out shouldn't be all up to the man ...

 

... but most women expect men to be the "aggressors" and make all the moves, in asking them out for dates or initiating LM. Just read some of the "girls asking men out" threads...

Know this personally in marriage.

 

If you expect women to take the lead, make all the moves and you just sit back and don't start approaching them, you're gonna be single (and dateless) for a lot longer than you want...

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It's not a debate, NMF, or anything you can change.

 

Yes, the dynamics inside a relationship should be a partnership (one shouldn't have to do all the work), and ideally, asking women out shouldn't be all up to the man ...

 

... but most women expect men to be the "aggressors" and make all the moves, in asking them out for dates or initiating LM. Just read some of the "girls asking men out" threads...

Know this personally in marriage.

 

If you expect women to take the lead, make all the moves and you just sit back and don't start approaching them, you're gonna be single (and dateless) for a lot longer than you want...

 

i said it should be balanced not that i don't want to make a move, i'm more then willing to but yes i rather be single and dateless then having to do all the work each and every time and that includes inside the marriage, that things are like this is because it gives most of the power to women and its a lot more comfortable to them and men are to desperate, needy, week and/or lacking patience to change this

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i said it should be balanced not that i don't want to make a move, I'm more then willing to but yes i rather be single and dateless then having to do all the work each and every time and that includes inside the marriage, that things are like this is because it gives most of the power to women and its a lot more comfortable to them and men are to desperate, needy, week and/or lacking patience to change this

 

It's not that women's don't approach or don't initiate anything - They do. They just go about it differently than we do. When a woman looks at you it's her way of calling you over. When she brushes her hair while talking to you it's her way of showing interest in you. She gets up and puts on make up, dresses up, and tries to do all the little things to make YOU attracted to her. Her hovering beside you is her way of making herself available so you would talk to her. Even when you're in a relationship women initiate sex as well, they may mention something naughty or give "that look". As men we should learn to pick up on these signals to satisfy our partners needs.

 

Fact remains, men and women are different and you can't expect both to act in one generic way. Our genetic makeup is different and the way we process information is different. As human beings we compliment each other. There's many many other ways women "approach" men and make themselves available for them. We are just not hardwired to pick up on these queues and thus end up missing opportunities. Learning to understand women and their queues can and will help your situation.

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It's not that women's don't approach or don't initiate anything - They do. They just go about it differently than we do. When a woman looks at you it's her way of calling you over. When she brushes her hair while talking to you it's her way of showing interest in you. She gets up and puts on make up, dresses up, and tries to do all the little things to make YOU attracted to her. Her hovering beside you is her way of making herself available so you would talk to her. Even when you're in a relationship women initiate sex as well, they may mention something naughty or give "that look". As men we should learn to pick up on these signals to satisfy our partners needs.

 

 

 

well those things don't count as taking initiative or making a move

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With me I find that due to problems I have about my looks I always think that girls don't find me attractive and also think that girls aren't really interested in me, I don't know if I am just missing signals or something. It also may be worth noting that I've always been shy and also found that most of the time I have trouble looking people in the eyes due to having a fear that I'll be judged by people (maybe thats why I miss signals from other girls I don't know...).

 

Sorry if some of the above doesn't make much sense I'm writing it as it comes to my mind....

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well those things don't count as taking initiative or making a move

 

Totally agree here. All these subtle "signals" might mean nothing at all. I've known lots of women that like to brush back their hair out of habit, and several that are very touchy feely with everyone they know, it's just who they are.

 

It's rare, but once in a blue moon I meet a woman that is completely direct and tells me verbally that she is interested in me, or just asks me out on the spot. ( two of my ex's were like this )

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well those things don't count as taking initiative or making a move

Maybe in a typical guy's mind, who can't pick up on the signals, but they're signals just the same.

As Vacation said, women send out signals differently than us.

He gave a good idea of what women do. I too was oblivious to much of that...

 

NMF,

Don't wanna argue about this, but you gotta start approaching more women. Most won't approach you.

 

In my dating until I got married at 35, never encountered a woman who asked me to go out with her. Yes, I would have welcomed that as I was shy too.

 

 

Listen intently to what women say and form questions off what they tell you.

Focus your conversatoin on them.

As most people don't want to talk only about themselves, they should work in some questions about you. Plus, they'll be flattered by your genuine interest.

 

If you hear she likes a certain hobby or activity, and you can relate, say you know something about that or if you don't, tell her you've heard about rock climbing and always wanted to do that, go on a balloon ride or visit a chilli cook-off...

 

NATURALLY work into the conversation how you'd like to enjoy such activity (museum visit, crafts fair, winery visit, ballgame, play, etc.). with her.

Inviting her that way instead of asking her simply if she'd like to go out with you... ( a yes-no question), it won't be as easy for her to say no. She may want to think about it for a moment before "automatically" saying no...

 

Just a little taste of the thread I linked to. Read it as it could give you ideas on where to meet women and what to say when you try to talk with them.

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