Is this child abuse?

Maybe this is obvious, but I'm confused. A guy liked to film himself having sex with women, with their consent. Many of us here have done that.

Moving on, this guy always had a buddy hold the camera for him, but his buddy couldn't have been more than 12 years old. The kid wasn't really old enough yet to like girls, so it didn't turn him on. It was just another activity, like jogging, to share with this "big brother"-type guy. As far as I could tell, the kid was completely comfortable. He'd filmed several videos of this guy, and as for the women, they acted more or less as if he wasn't there.

Anyway, the guy never touched the kid nor did he ever invite him to join in. This was a few years ago, the guy never got in trouble, and I don't know what the kid's doing now. I imagine he's too old now to have a "big brother."

Even if the kid wasn't touched, there's something wrong with this picture, right?

Yes, this is child abuse and the child should have been removed from the home. It is child abuse and sexual abuse of the 12 year old.

How old was the "big brother" and how did they know each other?

If the "big brother" was 14 and they met at Karate class or something (and were genuinely friends) - then I wouldn't call it child abuse. I'd call it two guys getting up to something...

Yes, this is child abuse. It is involving a child in adult sexuality, something which the boy is not ready for either emotionally or physically.

Just because the kid appeared to be completely comfortable doesn't stop it being abuse. Many victims of child abuse have an enormous burden of guilt on top of the emotional and mental damage, because they actually LIKED the physical sensations at the time.

If you have any doubts about whether or not this is abuse, could you imagine the 'big brother' type guy sharing details of this activity with the child's mother? Do you think he'd want it widely known amongst his social circle?

How old was the "big brother" and how did they know each other?

 

If the "big brother" was 14 and they met at Karate class or something (and were genuinely friends) - then I wouldn't call it child abuse. I'd call it two guys getting up to something...

The 'big brother' wanted himself filmed having sex - does this REALLY strike you as innocent fun? If you had a twelve year old kid, or brother, would you be cool with them participating in this?

The 'big brother' wanted himself filmed having sex - does this REALLY strike you as innocent fun? If you had a twelve year old kid, or brother, would you be cool with them participating in this?

I agree, my son is 13 and I would be going APE if someone did this to my son. Someone would be going to jail. I can guarantee it.

It is definitely child sexual abuse and also falls within the realms of grooming and disensitisation. The same applies to adults having sex in the presence of a child or showing pornographic images to a child. A child should not be made or encouraged to participate actively or even as a spectator in any aspect of sexual intercourse between adults.

The 'big brother' wanted himself filmed having sex - does this REALLY strike you as innocent fun? If you had a twelve year old kid, or brother, would you be cool with them participating in this?

Oh, I definitely think the ages of the people and their overall relationship has something to do with it.

If the "big brother" is a man (say, 18 years old) then I absolutely think it's abuse.

If the "big brother" is a year or two older than him, maybe he's a bad influence - but it's not child abuse.

If a 14 year old convinces a 12-year old to shoplift - is that child abuse? No. It's peer pressure and influence. If a parent, guardian or other person of authority convinces a child to shoplift - it's child abuse.

How old is the "big brother?" Yes, I would say it's child abuse. Or at the least it's very inappropriate and just wrong.

Other children can commit child abuse against other children. Any 14 year old or 15 year old who is taping sexual acts and having someone else tape it I can pretty much tell you that child has been abused at some point and is perpetuating it on another child as well.

Any 14 year old or 15 year old who is taping sexual acts and having someone else tape it I can pretty much tell you that child has been abused at some point and is perpetuating it on another child as well.

... or they just think it's good fun. Abuse has to have an element of coercion to it. Was he coerced?

I would never call that," good fun" I do not know too many people who would either. I am sure the police and children's services wouldn't find it good fun either. It is easy for a 15 year old to coerce a 12 year old and the 12 year old does not even realize it. Advanced knowledge and or actions of a child in a sexual direction is a BIG indicator that that child has been sexually abused. If they are then repeating that with another child, they are also abusing another child no matter the age difference.

 

If a 14 year old convinces a 12-year old to shoplift - is that child abuse? No. It's peer pressure and influence. If a parent, guardian or other person of authority convinces a child to shoplift - it's child abuse.

Are you seriously comparing shoplifting with sexual abuse?! Convincing a child to shoplift or lie or press a neighbour's doorbell and run is nowhere near child abuse which often leaves lifelong emotional effects on the abused.

Child abuse covers four areas:

1. Sexual

2. Physical

3. Emotional

4. Neglect

Yes, some children can also abuse other children when they have suffered abuse themselves. And yes, the ages of those involved matters as does their level of understanding. Just because two 14 year olds are having sex does not mean one of them has not been coerced or manipulated by virtue of their size and mental age.

Are you seriously comparing shoplifting with sexual abuse?! Convincing a child to shoplift or lie or press a neighbour's doorbell and run is nowhere near child abuse which often leaves lifelong emotional effects on the abused.

 

Child abuse covers four areas:

 

1. Sexual

2. Physical

3. Emotional

4. Neglect

 

Yes, some children can also abuse other children when they have suffered abuse themselves. And yes, the ages of those involved matters as does their level of understanding. Just because two 14 year olds are having sex does not mean one of them has not been coerced or manipulated by virtue of their size and mental age.

This is not abuse, the bold part, not recommended but not abuse. I agree, but what is suggested in the original post heck yeah, that is abuse. I agree with all you have to say.

Are you seriously comparing shoplifting with sexual abuse?! Convincing a child to shoplift or lie or press a neighbour's doorbell and run is nowhere near child abuse which often leaves lifelong emotional effects on the abused.

 

Child abuse covers four areas:

 

1. Sexual

2. Physical

3. Emotional

4. Neglect

 

Yes, some children can also abuse other children when they have suffered abuse themselves. And yes, the ages of those involved matters as does their level of understanding. Just because two 14 year olds are having sex does not mean one of them has not been coerced or manipulated by virtue of their size and mental age.

Oh, for sure. I'm not saying that it's definitely not child abuse. It could very well BE child abuse. But it could also *not* be.

Personally? I remember being 12 years old. I was most certainly curious about sex as were my friends. And you know what? Some people in our class were having sex. Sometimes they were having sex relatively publicly (at parties).

If this "brother" was saying that he wanted to tape it but couldn't figure out how and this 12-year-old volunteered to tape it... that's not child abuse. That's poor decision making. But it's not child abuse.

Some of you are also assuming that this child experienced "lifelong emotional effects". Did he? Or was he curious, experimenting and volunteering?

I agree that children can abuse other children. But... we don't know that's what happened here.

We, in North America, tend to have some puritanical views about sexuality. I'm not convinced that viewing sex, when he's a willing (and wanting) participant that has not been coerced in any way but truly wants to be there to see it constitutes abuse. It could constitute abuse. But it may not.

Of course... again... if the "big brother" is a lot older, then there was most definitely coercion and it's most definitely abuse.

This is not abuse, the bold part, not recommended but not abuse. I agree, but what is suggested in the original post heck yeah, that is abuse. I agree with all you have to say.

In the UK, any evidence of coersion on the part of one of the children would warrant an investigation. Children with learning or physical disabilities sometimes get taken advantage of by others of similar age and sometimes siblings or close family members. Trust me - I deal with this type of thing every day.

How old was the "big brother?"

I'd say he was in his late 20s. The women were probably between that and their mid 30s; I'm not sure what was on their minds.

How did they meet?

I don't know exactly, but someplace innocent enough. I doubt the kid had much of a home life.

Was he coerced?

No, I believe he would've gullible enough not to need coercion.

How old was the "big brother?"

 

I'd say he was in his late 20s. The women were probably between that and their mid 30s; I'm not sure what was on their minds.

 

How did they meet?

 

I don't know exactly, but someplace innocent enough.

 

Was he coerced?

 

No, I believe he would've gullible enough not to need coercion.

Yeah, ok. That was definitely abuse, then. The "big brother" was not a "buddy", he was a person of influence and he was old enough to know better.

I'm not in North America. I used to think that rather too much was made of child abuse. Then I started working in mental health, and with the victims of it; plenty of whom had enjoyed it when it was happening, and did not relate their early experiences to the emotional difficulties and mental health problems they were having as adults.

I now think that perhaps it's not taken seriously enough, if anything ...

In the UK, any evidence of coersion on the part of one of the children would warrant an investigation. Children with learning or physical disabilities sometimes get taken advantage of by others of similar age and sometimes siblings or close family members. Trust me - I deal with this type of thing every day.

Yes, I understand that. In that case it would be abuse. I completely understand. My son has learning disabilities and I keep him out of situations where he has a chance of being abused.

I was also sexually abused as a child so I understand.

How old was the "big brother?"

 

I'd say he was in his late 20s. The women were probably between that and their mid 30s; I'm not sure what was on their minds.

 

How did they meet?

 

I don't know exactly, but someplace innocent enough. I doubt the kid had much of a home life.

 

Was he coerced?

 

No, I believe he would've gullible enough not to need coercion.

That man belongs in prison.

I'm not in North America. I used to think that rather too much was made of child abuse. Then I started working in mental health, and with the victims of it; plenty of whom had enjoyed it when it was happening, and did not relate their early experiences to the emotional difficulties and mental health problems they were having as adults.

 

I now think that perhaps it's not taken seriously enough, if anything ...

My sentiments exactly.

I'm not in North America. I used to think that rather too much was made of child abuse. Then I started working in mental health, and with the victims of it; plenty of whom had enjoyed it when it was happening, and did not relate their early experiences to the emotional difficulties and mental health problems they were having as adults.

 

I now think that perhaps it's not taken seriously enough, if anything ...

I totally agree.

If you have any doubts about whether or not this is abuse, could you imagine the 'big brother' type guy sharing details of this activity with the child's mother? Do you think he'd want it widely known amongst his social circle?

Regarding the kid's mother, I don't think he had much of a home life. Also, the guy didn't try to hide it. A few of us were shooting the breeze about sex, and he brought up a certain woman he'd liked, whom he and his "buddy" had filmed like several others. He only mentioned it in passing, and how it was several years ago, and didn't even seem proud of it. Because he was so casual about it, I wondered if my gut reaction was wrong.

I feel so sad for that child. That is SOOOOO utterly disturbing. I would call police on that man anyway.